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Trin Tragula posted:Ah good, an excuse to write this up properly, which I've been meaning to do for a while. That is a really good explanation, thanks.
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Jul 10, 2016 21:25
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Empress Theonora posted:Ohh, so that's why what I thought were "regimental" numbers made no sense and didn't seem to ever point to e.g. Wikipedia articles on the, say, the 7th Royal Sussex or whatever. I'm so used to American regimental numbers (e.g., in the Civil War, 54th Massachusetts Infantry Regiment, which is a separate Regiment from the 53rd Massachusetts and the 55th etc.) it never occurred to me that the Nth Whatevershires could mean anything other than regiment number N from Whatevershire. Bear in mind Whatevershire is a county not a state - we're a smaller country. 55 regiments from one county would basically be every man, woman and child. Edit: for US readers, the Territorials are roughly equivalent to the National Guard. feedmegin fucked around with this message at 22:00 on Jul 10, 2016 |
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Jul 10, 2016 21:54
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feedmegin posted:Bear in mind Whatevershire is a county not a state - we're a smaller country. 55 regiments from one county would basically be every man, woman and child. Which period of the National Guard though? It's gone from a home defense thing to the military being structured so that you can't wage effective war overseas without calling it up. Also if someone could summarize the NG's evolution I can't really remember it properly.
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Jul 10, 2016 22:09
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HEY GAL posted:like in the time we study, in which a regiment is identified by the last name of the guy who runs it at the time, except the saxon regiment Ungar's Dragoons, which is known by their colonel's nickname. And the Swedes have at least three different ways to put together regiments for reasons really apparent for the day and age but it seems convoluted as hell for the modern day. Especially since the language used back then doesn't easily translate to English either. edit: The three ways that I remember off the top of my head are the Indelningsverket establised in 1634 (recruitment from rotes, i.e. every ten farmsteads or so send a soldier), the usual volunteer recruiting done by the state and just letting the mercenary colonels do their thing as was common on the continent. And then you have weirdo units like the Adelsfanan, which was an all-noble cavalry regiment. Kemper Boyd fucked around with this message at 22:21 on Jul 10, 2016 |
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Jul 10, 2016 22:16
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xthetenth posted:Which period of the National Guard though? It's gone from a home defense thing to the military being structured so that you can't wage effective war overseas without calling it up. Yep, same here!
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Jul 10, 2016 22:26
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Same in the UK now. The Army are having terrible trouble recruiting reservists, I think the last few wars have told most of the country that it's not a train on the weekends, maybe get called up to defend the country thing, but a train on the weekends, potentially go fight ISIS next year thing.
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Jul 10, 2016 22:29
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Kemper Boyd posted:And the Swedes have at least three different ways to put together regiments for reasons really apparent for the day and age but it seems convoluted as hell for the modern day. Especially since the language used back then doesn't easily translate to English either. and artillery organizes itself, of course
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Jul 10, 2016 22:30
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HEY GAL posted:also my dudes don't say "second" so you have The Elector's First Life Company and The Other Life Company, which is accurate but also kind of funny. counting goes "First, Other, Third, Fourth..." And then you get "well in this period there are no standing regiments. Except for the life guards, though they spend most of their time pissing off the guilds in Stockholm since they're allowed to work as tradesmen and their wives do the same. And then there's these dudes in loving Norrland or whatever who are sort of a standing regiment but I have no idea why."
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Jul 10, 2016 22:32
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Kemper Boyd posted:And then you get "well in this period there are no standing regiments. Except for the life guards, though they spend most of their time pissing off the guilds in Stockholm since they're allowed to work as tradesmen and their wives do the same. And then there's these dudes in loving Norrland or whatever who are sort of a standing regiment but I have no idea why." edit: also there's Defensionsfaendlein and Ritter-dienst (which is where all the nobles in a certain area have to chip in to cover the cost of raising some cav) but I'm not going to be studying them and don't care. edit 2: also soldiers will piss off the guilds regardless since they and their female partners will act as tradespeople whether or not they're allowed to, this happens in Saxony as well HEY GUNS fucked around with this message at 22:39 on Jul 10, 2016 |
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Jul 10, 2016 22:34
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HEY GAL posted:also my dudes don't say "second" so you have The Elector's First Life Company and The Other Life Company, which is accurate but also kind of funny. counting goes "First, Other, Third, Fourth..." ffecond? No seriously, why no 'second", is it a religious thing?
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Jul 10, 2016 22:38
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Nebakenezzer posted:ffecond?
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Jul 10, 2016 22:40
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I think that's just a Germanic language thing in general?
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Jul 10, 2016 22:51
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It's actually the same in Finnish today (and most likely back then), the word for "Second", "toinen"means also "(the) other".
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Jul 10, 2016 23:04
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Speaking of saxons: http://www.lennartviebahn.com/arms_armour/antiques/rapier_anton_schuch.html This blade is from the reign of Christian II, so it's too early to have been carried by anyone I've encountered in a murder trial. Christian II is the fatty who was jousting in the heat, gulped some beer to cool down, and dropped down dead of a heart attack at the age of 28. Saxon antiquities and archives are either blown up/burned down or absolutely perfect and there's tons of them. no middle ground
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Jul 11, 2016 01:07
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HEY GAL posted:like in the time we study, in which a regiment is identified by the last name of the guy who runs it at the time, except the saxon regiment Ungar's Dragoons, which is known by their colonel's nickname. I am now going to assume that the turning point was one Dietrich suing the other for trademark infringement.
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Jul 11, 2016 03:43
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Antti posted:I think that's just a Germanic language thing in general? yeah, pretty much many other germanic languages have preserved "and(e)re" as the default way of saying "second", the modern German way of saying it is more or less equivalent to English 'two-ian' and probably became dominant at some point after HEY GAL's subjects were dead
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Jul 11, 2016 03:45
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HEY GAL posted:Speaking of saxons: Heat or no, a heart attack at 28 sounds like he would have been taken by the diabetes by 35 anyway, goddamn.
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Jul 11, 2016 05:42
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Kemper Boyd posted:I got a bunch of rowan trees growing in the yard of my new house and I started wondering if people used that for pikes. I should make a pike.
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Jul 11, 2016 08:20
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Trin Tragula posted:Ah good, an excuse to write this up properly, which I've been meaning to do for a while.
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Jul 11, 2016 09:59
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Speaking of Saxons, is Ur-Krostitzer super popular with the re-enactment crowd? I always giggle to myself a little when I see one of their "true heroes" billboards. Ur-Krostitzer is a Gustav II. Adolf themed beer for you foreign types.
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Jul 11, 2016 10:05
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FAUXTON posted:Heat or no, a heart attack at 28 sounds like he would have been taken by the diabetes by 35 anyway, goddamn.  every wettin i can think of had the same kind of lifestyle, male and female, old and young. some died because of it and some lived goddamn forever  most famous Wettin is Augustus the Strong, who was immensely powerful physically (a fav party trick of his was bending iron horseshoes in one hand) but was given the name because of his ability to drink and party. he had over 300 bastards and used large parts of Fortress Koenigstein for a wine cellar. HEY GUNS fucked around with this message at 10:51 on Jul 11, 2016 |
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Jul 11, 2016 10:40
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Some Wettin also forced his bishop to admit that there's nothing in the Bible that says that a dude cannot have two wives.
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Jul 11, 2016 10:52
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Osama Dozen-Dongs posted:Speaking of Saxons, is Ur-Krostitzer super popular with the re-enactment crowd? I always giggle to myself a little when I see one of their "true heroes" billboards. which is true, different water means different beer, but still
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Jul 11, 2016 10:53
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Kemper Boyd posted:Some Wettin also forced his bishop to admit that there's nothing in the Bible that says that a dude cannot have two wives. HEY GUNS fucked around with this message at 10:56 on Jul 11, 2016 |
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Jul 11, 2016 10:53
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HEY GAL posted:i think they're my favorite royal family. no incest, no creepy scandals, no history of mental troubles, just a bunch of fat dudes and chicks who drink lots of beer and get into religious wars I'm preferential to the Vasas because the sons of Gustav Vasa are like one of those Benny Hill montages, except with stabbings, civil war and decapitations.
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Jul 11, 2016 10:56
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Kemper Boyd posted:I'm preferential to the Vasas because the sons of Gustav Vasa are like one of those Benny Hill montages, except with stabbings, civil war and decapitations.
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Jul 11, 2016 10:58
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HEY GAL posted:i think they're my favorite royal family. no incest, no creepy scandals, no history of mental troubles, just a bunch of fat dudes and chicks who drink and fight and screw za króla Sasa jedz, pij i popuszczaj pasa
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Jul 11, 2016 11:08
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Kemper Boyd posted:Some Wettin also forced his bishop to admit that there's nothing in the Bible that says that a dude cannot have two wives. He ain't wrong e: lol Martin Luther himself did that to another nobleman https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philip_I,_Landgrave_of_Hesse#Bigamous_marriage Plutonis fucked around with this message at 17:01 on Jul 11, 2016 |
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Jul 11, 2016 16:59
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Immanentized posted:Now, I only have a BA in Viking History, but one thing has really stuck with me as I've been reading more primary source stuff, and it's that the Viking cultures were extremely pragmatic and most of their cultural output was based on how to live in their society and basically not be a gently caress up. This extends to their belief system too- keep in mind is that Scandinavian social organization was fairly egalitarian across it's breadth but it was also built with extremely clear social divisions and class lines. Thing about the various afterlives is that each had a purpose in speaking to the social purpose of those who could look forward to them. It worked kind of similar to the Chivalric/Bushido/whatever codes, but wasn't really formallly laid out or enforced in any way. Couple of pages ago but thanks for this great post. And yes the best are the Penguin editions, but the old ones translated by Magnus Magnusson and Herman Palsson. Sadly I think those are out of print and only the newer translations are around. Laxdaela saga is also good value for money. Unn the Deep Minded owns. It is always worth remembering when reading the Sagas that this is basically the landscape they lived in and remember: this is a nice, rich part of Iceland:  gently caress it, read all the sagas. Njal's and Grettir's are good too, Grettir for how hosed off everyone can get with you if you decide to be a disruptive rear end in a top hat but how strong friendship and family ties can be even after you've been outlawed.
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Jul 11, 2016 17:12
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WW2 Data Part 4 of the Italian Inventory is up! Today's update has a focus on the various gas bombs the Italians used, with an added bomb container and marker thrown in. What makes the 100kg special bomb container earn its name? What kind of gases did the Italians employ? What marking was stenciled on Italian gas bombs? What kind of filling did the vento marker use? All that and more at the blog!
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Jul 11, 2016 17:20
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Today I learned about Private McCafferty whilst doing my archive work. Don't loving step on a soldier, even a British soldier for a stupid and minor thing young officers. Even in the 19th century. Jesus.
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Jul 11, 2016 17:31
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SeanBeansShako posted:Today I learned about Private McCafferty whilst doing my archive work. Link to the story?
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Jul 11, 2016 17:36
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VanSandman posted:Link to the story? Sadly I need to give Wikipedia, but it does source the paper article I read about this afternoon. Long story short, It is 1861 and while the seeds of tension are slowly being sowed in two different continents in the mainland UK like usual nothing is happening, especially outside the officers mess at the edge of the Fulwood Depot belonging to the 32nd DCLI. So much so, some kids are playing a game whilst the nearby sentry on duty Private McCafferty stands on duty idly ignoring them. Sadly however, inside the officers mess during a game of poker some officer brought up the incident where playing children broke a window and cheesed it before they could get names so they'd have to pay to fix the drat thing themselves so they wouldn't have any spare money to gamble. They do what officers do at the time and mediate the task to somebody at the bottom of the totem poll. That somebody unfortunately for himself and for private McCafferty was Captain Hanham who sadly was the stereotypical representation of the stiff necked by the books slightly sadistic Victorian officer stereotype WHO WANTS RESULTS drat YOU. So our doomed captain marches outside to speak with the sentry on duty. He asks the man to get the children to leave and get their names. Now, despite the stupidty of all this private McCafferty follows orders but the children like always scarper having a laugh unknowingly being the spark to the coming explosive mess to come. He catches one and manages to get a name from him but when reporting to the captain this was not good enough. The captain seriously unimpressed at the privates child catching skills not at all being top tier stuff sentences him to 14 days of confinement in the barracks. Apparently the sentencing itself was swift and the poor man took it in silent stoic pride despite the stupdiity of the charges. However only a few hours after being sentenced things take a turn for the horrific. Captain Hanham was outside in the depot grounds walking with a regimental Colonel in front him chatting or doing duties (paper article never said) marching stiffly across the barracks square when a shot from an Enfield musket was fired from 65 yards away from the doorway of one of the barracks building. The round itself impacted and went through the lungs of the very unfortunate colonel and then struck and burrowed through the unlucky captain stopping as it slammed into his spine. A moment later, a shocked private on duty in the barrack building where the shot was fired was calmly handed a warm musket by private McCaffery. When being asked what he had done, the private replied "That it didn't matter.". Both officers died the next day, the colonel first and then the Captain. Sadly, It seemed the colonel was a more learned and down to earth man much respected and liked by the private and officer alike and unlike the intended victim had nothing to do with this bloody incident. During the trial the pushed private was apparently disturbingly casual and relaxed about the affair. He was hanged on the 11th of January 1862 in front of Kirkdale Jail in Liverpool. It is said the people watching the execution had their sympathies with the man. So yeah, a classic 19th century case of out of the blue fragging. Be nice and just pay for the damages.
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Jul 11, 2016 18:00
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MrYenko posted:RORSAT: Doing it's part to warm up the Canadian frontier. RORSAT: Glow Canada
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Jul 11, 2016 19:53
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Dumb question: what's good software for constructing graphs? I got my hands on some hand numbers re Coastal command, and I feel a need to visualize them. I'm also reading a book on the battle of the Atlantic. (In Great Waters: the epic story of the Battle of the Atlantic, by Spencer Dunmore. The author is Canadian, which is nice, and he goes in for individual stories as well as the strategic sweep of things. Things I've learned: 1. Donitz was pretty sharp. He (and by extension, the U-boat force) were really on top of things from the start of World War 2. Had he more resources (or even a proper naval air wing under Kriegsmarine command) he could have made things so much more nasty for the allies. (This doesn't count as any sort of insight - Donitz himself is writing these exact things in his diary - but I guess I didn't appreciate how good a officer/commander Donitz was until now.) When he heard from his submarine captains in the early part of the war about torpedo malfunctions, he said technical problems were to be expected, but not bureaucratic incompetence. When it was revealed that nearly all the problems had been documented in detail (and ignored by the rear admiral in charge of such things) it wasn't long before that particular Admiral was spending six months in prison. 2. The first Sea Lord during the catasterfuck of the early battle of the Atlantic, Dudley Pound, was suffering from a brain tumor and painful hip degeneration which badly disrupted his sleep. They probably should have replaced that guy. 3. The early period Allied Efforts were completely desperate. The Corvettes were almost as uncomfortable to their crews as U boats were, (think of that.) They were often commanded by people who'd been in the navy, but were crewed by sailors who'd been in the merchant marine until one day they were transferred to the navy. They often got zero training in this new role, so it's very much a naval version of the Volkstum or the home guard armed with broomsticks. The Corvette crash program would be the most effective bit in a flurry of WW1 destroyers that had wooden guns and sometimes even wooden depth charges, as munitions were sometimes very short. 4. Coastal Command was a shambles, save for one point. Coastal Command was described by senior officers in the RAF at the time as the "cinderella service", IE the one that was poor as poo poo. There's a lot of reasons for this, but the result is that Coastal command 1) basically had no suitable aircraft 2) no munitions, especially for hunting submarines, and 3) tiny numbers. They also had several procurements for new aircraft go really bad. Essentially, as ad-hoc and last minute German efforts were in this area, the British had less disadvantages and a much longer timescale to prepare, and were even less ready. 5. I can see the German surface raider campaign a bit more sympathetically. When surface raiders made their serious effort in the war's early part to sink convoys, I think the Germans were seeing the RN in total disarray and seemingly unable to fight back against their small-ish submarine fleet. Given those conditions, I can understand why Cruisers and even the Bismark's ill-fated sortie into the Atlantic were seen as a good idea.
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Jul 11, 2016 20:03
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So, I went to a shooting festival that could be accurately described as "military" "history." http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3782773 The festival took in around 130 village shooting guilds (kind of like a military or police force that only answered to the village itself) from the region of Limburg. A lot of them claim to have been founded in the 1400 and 1500's, but potentially went though some period as an entirely different organization -- like some of the tradesman's guilds in the City of London that have been charities for several hundred years.
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Jul 11, 2016 20:11
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sorry, i zoned out as soon as you said "smokeless powder" 
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Jul 11, 2016 20:15
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Not military history, but can't be arsed to dig up the Early Modern thread and dunno if it hasn't fallen into archives. I was reading a book about witch hunts earlier today and there was an interesting bit about France. France had something of a reverse witch hunt going on during the 17th century, especially during the reign of Louis XIV. That is, the crown spent a lot of effort on tracking down witch hunters and sentencing them either to death or the galleys, probably because they were causing panic and undermining the crown's authority. France in general had a really low number of people executed for witchcraft, something like 300 people during a 100+ years period and no mass trials at all.
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Jul 11, 2016 21:05
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witch hunters also do magic, at least they did in england. they're worthwhile as long as they succeed but they're still creepy outsiders
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Jul 11, 2016 21:07
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So the Tour de Pologne starts in my town tomorrow, and the authorities put up a mural to make the town all nice and pretty for it! They also did this: 
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Jul 11, 2016 21:35
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