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Corbeau posted:None exists, to my knowledge. It would be possible to create, but more difficult than for most other minis games due to the heavy emphasis on 3-dimensional play, the influence of good board design on the game, and the constant back-and-forth of the order and ARO system. One can hope that someone makes a VR tabletop miniature game application some day.
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Jul 10, 2016 01:39
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Maybe someone will get around to making a good Tabletop Simulator mod. The X-Wing mod is fantastic and I hear the 40k one isn't bad.
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Jul 10, 2016 01:45
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Again, it's probably an order of magnitude harder to do Infinity compared to X-Wing since the latter is played on a 2-D plane. Well, if you automated anything anyway. I guess you could do it just with a bunch of varying size boxes and cylinders if you let the players handle everything.
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Jul 10, 2016 01:48
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Corbeau posted:Oh, yeah, if budget is your concern then you can literally play with small dowels of the right dimensions for unit silhouettes. Someone actually posted a really funny battle report of that back when N3 came out. There is a Tabletop Sim workshop dealie that uses paper-cutout style deals. It might not actually be that hard to prepare a set of virtual papercutouts  Also, I do wonder if this is too far into trad. gaming 
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Jul 10, 2016 06:58
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ReadingZucchini posted:There is a Tabletop Sim workshop dealie that uses paper-cutout style deals. It might not actually be that hard to prepare a set of virtual papercutouts What ? We're not copying fluff or anything
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Jul 10, 2016 09:59
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Panzeh posted:I'm going in. I just bought a lot including every tohaa unit, some painted, all primed for 300 bucks. Anyone had much experience with the new ITS missions? started playing Rescue and Tic-Tac-Toe recently and they're really fun.
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Jul 10, 2016 11:40
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How do you pick a faction for this game? All of them are aesthetically pleasing.
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Jul 11, 2016 09:28
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KPC_Mammon posted:How do you pick a faction for this game? All of them are aesthetically pleasing.
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Jul 11, 2016 10:04
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KPC_Mammon posted:How do you pick a faction for this game? All of them are aesthetically pleasing.
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Jul 11, 2016 21:19
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Ilor posted:While every faction can do every kind of play-style, some support certain things better than others. For instance, if you like camouflage, play Ariadna. If you like heavy armor, Yu Jing is great. If you like hacking/tech-based attacks, Nomads do this best. If you like TAGs and Remotes, play PanO. If you like dirty tricks and being able to easily heal your troopers (and thus frustrate your opponent), play Haqqislam. If you like fireteam tactics, play Tohaa. And if you just like punching people in the face while madly cackling with glee, play CA. Poor ALEPH.
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Jul 11, 2016 21:21
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Oh, yeah, and if you like playing unstoppable hero types, play ALEPH. EDIT: but parenthetically, gently caress ALEPH! I hate those assholes.
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Jul 11, 2016 21:26
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I can't wait until Vedic comes out so ALEPH can be hated for something other than loving Steel Phalanx. I don't even dislike Steel Phalanx as a whole, just sick of every loving release being a goddamn Greek hero.
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Jul 11, 2016 21:35
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Aleph is for nerds.
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Jul 11, 2016 22:23
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aleph players are only the second worst thing in thsi game yj players are the worst, massive babbies Also, I'm hoping the Overdron looks as cool as its concept art and not the crappy art in the book because this thing wrecks people. I love it. Twin Snipers is just hideous.
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Jul 11, 2016 22:41
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Where does JSA fall on the YJ baby gradient? Because lately I've been getting a powerful urge to run a whole ton of bikes and make zooming noises all the while.
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Jul 11, 2016 23:16
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JSA players are more socially acceptable as they spend less time crying about the Swiss Guard in N2, however you have the weeaboo factor to consider. I think JSA are cool though because they are baller as hell to play.
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Jul 11, 2016 23:21
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Aleph is also the most weeaboo army.
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Jul 11, 2016 23:28
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Gotta play without your easy 5 point orders when you play JSA.
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Jul 11, 2016 23:36
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My advice is pick on of the 8 factions that has the coolest looking units to you. Then buy them and play with them, and as you learn the game you will learn what style of play works best for you. I wouldn't recommend starting with a sectorial, because honestly you're going to buy every loving thing anyway because everything is so damned cool.
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Jul 12, 2016 02:41
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Yeah, I started Araidna just because the concept of the Mormaers is so great. If only they were less points 
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Jul 12, 2016 03:49
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Cyclomatic posted:One can hope that someone makes a VR tabletop miniature game application some day. I wonder how hard it would be to make an Xcom mod for Infinity. A lot of the elements are already there: reactions, 2-part individual turns, line of sight and 3d boards....add in orders and weapon burst and you pretty much got it.
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Jul 12, 2016 04:58
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In my experience, ALEPH is the easiest army to stomp the poo poo out of. Orders are king.
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Jul 12, 2016 05:47
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Sephyr posted:I wonder how hard it would be to make an Xcom mod for Infinity. A lot of the elements are already there: reactions, 2-part individual turns, line of sight and 3d boards....add in orders and weapon burst and you pretty much got it. There's already a Doom Deathmatch mod, XCom wouldn't be that much harder.
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Jul 12, 2016 12:12
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WAR FOOT posted:In my experience, ALEPH is the easiest army to stomp the poo poo out of. I actually found that too. I pulled my punches a bit because I prefer to do cool poo poo in non-tournament games than stomp my opponent. Even when they are more experienced than me.
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Jul 12, 2016 12:59
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Outside of a tournament environment, I'll usually ease off the gas, too. ALEPH's a tricky one to pull your punches on, though. Even if you kill half their models, they can still swing a game based sheerly on individual model power. ALEPH is a lot like Bastion. At low play levels they're viewed as completely unbeatable bullshit, but at high play levels you rarely see them and competent playesr can dismantle them easily and I've been playing too much Overwatch Clawtopsy fucked around with this message at 14:03 on Jul 12, 2016 |
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Jul 12, 2016 13:52
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It depends on the models you kill. In the tournament I played last fall, my last game was against a Steel Phalanx list, and once I'd killed Achilles (in my first Reactive Turn thanks to Suppressive Fire and light shotguns to the face), it was pretty clear my opponent's game-plan was wrecked. He definitely seemed unsure how to proceed. He made a go of it with his Ekdromoi, but by that point I had decent board control around the objectives. Ultimately I think I only killed two models (maybe three), but still won the scenario.
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Jul 12, 2016 14:40
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Ilor posted:It depends on the models you kill. In the tournament I played last fall, my last game was against a Steel Phalanx list, and once I'd killed Achilles (in my first Reactive Turn thanks to Suppressive Fire and light shotguns to the face), it was pretty clear my opponent's game-plan was wrecked. He definitely seemed unsure how to proceed. He made a go of it with his Ekdromoi, but by that point I had decent board control around the objectives. Ultimately I think I only killed two models (maybe three), but still won the scenario. This is largely true of most 'TAG' lists. If you can kill the big thing early, it's game over, or close to.
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Jul 12, 2016 14:54
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I might get into this game, especially because I like the look of the models, but out of curiosity how useful are things like TAGs and bikes? They look cool to me and fun to paint, but are they good models to field? I guess I'm asking if there are any trap models, or is everything useful in one way or another? Especially with Yu Jing and Haqqislam, since I'd be likely to try the game through Red Veil when it comes out.
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Jul 12, 2016 15:01
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imperialparadox posted:I might get into this game, especially because I like the look of the models, but out of curiosity how useful are things like TAGs and bikes? They look cool to me and fun to paint, but are they good models to field? Tags are in a kind of weird position. Orders matter and if you take a 100pt beast you're denying yourself a lot of room for error to take something that might well die to crits. You don't see many TAGs in hardcore tournament metas. They are, however, useful in annihilation and area-control missions so people put them in secondary lists. As for non-tournament metas, who knows, those vary from city to city. If you buy one TAG you can work it in, don't plan to use 2+ in a list unless they're the small types like Gecko/Xeodrons. Bikes are good at what they do, i.e. either being highly mobile specialists, or borderline-suicidal blitzkrieg/harassers. I don't think there are any outright trap units in Infinity, even the Pheasant that was considered utter poo poo was simply overcosted. Shang Ji is probably the worst now, but that's just because of other options that can do it better/are more specialized/linkable in sectorial/have new shiny models/whatever. There are, however, stupid/horribly niche options. For example, Kempeitais are almost a must-have in JSA for their Chain of Command ability. However, I've ever seen them used in the non-CoC variant or in vanilla Yu Jing at all (because the CoC variant is JSA only). For Haqq... Khawarijs are very niche (depending on how much you value jumping onto rooftops), but their models make kickass Spec-Ops proxies so no one minds Ahl Fassed used to be in the "others do the same thing better" but it's getting redone.
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Jul 12, 2016 15:17
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In the right circumstances, TAGs and bikes can both be extremely useful. Much depends on the mission and the terrain. There are very few "trap" units in Infinity, and most people use that term to indicate a troop profile that seems "overcosted" relative to some other profile that provides similar capabilities for a cheaper cost. But "similar" is not "the same," and pretty much every troop type and profile out there is useful under the right conditions.
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Jul 12, 2016 15:19
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Bikes are real rad, especially Aragotos, which are A) hella fast, B) can take a specialist to capture objectives, and C) look awesome. TAGs are more of a mixed bag. They can be really crushing if you're in an environment where they're not common, and as such your opponent might not come prepared to kill your giant wad of Structure and armor. The downside is as War Foot notes, and you have a high-value target that's comparatively easy to shut down. They're not a trap per se, but they can be a waste of points if you're not skilled and operating with full knowledge of what you're up to. Speaking of Aragotos, I'm gonna start JSA because I have bad decision-making skills. Apart from four bikers and an Asuka, what should I be grabbing? Is 3 Keis, Yuriko and a Kempeitai actually a good link, or should I just take two Kempeitais for Chain of Command? Are Domarus or Haramakis preferred? Should I always be taking Musashi and Yojimbo? Oops, EFB, I guess. Still, tell me about JSA.
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Jul 12, 2016 15:21
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imperialparadox posted:I might get into this game, especially because I like the look of the models, but out of curiosity how useful are things like TAGs and bikes? They look cool to me and fun to paint, but are they good models to field? Some models are definitely more optimized toward certain roles, but you won't find stuff that is outright bad at what they do, like, say, Warp Talons in WH40K. The lethality of the game sort of keeps power-builds in check. Everything can kill everything, so putting too many eggs in a basket is a habit that goes away quickly. That said, as an ALEPH player, I've built plenty of lists with heavy hitters. It's not a bad thing, as long as you have a plan B to get your objectives. When I field my Achilles or Marut, I'm not expecting them to last the whole game or kill half the opposing force; I want them to last a turn or two, scare the enemy away from some areas and draw fire so my Thorakitai link/camo specialists can do their thing in peace. Last tournament I saw had the winning player dominate with a TAG list. Sure, it was a cheap Iguana backed by awesome Intruders and Hellcats hitting enemy lists from everywhere, but it was still a TAG list. And I've seen bikes exploit bad deploys to vaporize enemy cheerleaders and soft specialists in their own DZ in 4 orders from the start of the game. Basically, flashy stuff like big robots and bikes and fancy snipers cn be used to force your opponent into a response, and if you can prepare to deal with that response, you are in good position to win.
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Jul 12, 2016 15:36
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grassy gnoll posted:Speaking of Aragotos, I'm gonna start JSA because I have bad decision-making skills. 1) Apart from four bikers and an Asuka, what should I be grabbing? 2)Is 3 Keis, Yuriko and a Kempeitai actually a good link, or should I just take two Kempeitais for Chain of Command? 3) Are Domarus or Haramakis preferred? 4) Should I always be taking Musashi and Yojimbo @1 Keisotsu HMG, Ninja killerHD, drones (Yaokong Husong+Weibing, both Yaoxie), extra combi Keisotsu (if you run drone-heavy you'll want a support hacker so greenstuff a visor onto one). Extra Aragoto hacker @2 you'll want some long-range stuff, put a HMG in there. Two Kempeis is too many, if you ever run two put one combi in an agressive link and the other on the defensive with BS so he'll be your spare LT in relative safety. @3 Haramaki core with a spitfire Domaru insert. @4 Situational, especially Mushashi. Yojimbo is great fun if you wanna run the full 6 bikes.
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Jul 12, 2016 15:37
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Every bike has variants that are incredibly good. Select TAGs are good, but most 'standard' TAGs are quite bad. The best TAGs are the cheap not-TAGs (Geckos) and the really points premium ones (Marut, Cutters and Avatar). The plain TAGs (Typically a Heavy Flamethrower and a HMG/Multi HMG) tend to be quite poor value. Bikes are amazing, though. Two things: They can't benefit from cover, and they take a severe penalty to dodge incoming attacks.  Left to right, back to front: Kum Biker, Kasym Beg, Kum Biker, Garbage Twin, Amazing Twin Haqqislam has the Kum Bikers. The 'best' of these are the standard model with Chain Rifle, the twin with two Light Flamethrowers, and Kasym Beg. They are all incredibly powerful pieces that can trade up quite easily. They have an ability called 'Dogged' which means when they take a wound, they don't die until they take a second wound, or the turn ends. Dogged is the fear that gives men wings, as they're going to die anyway, so you throw them into foolish situations as they're already corpses. Plus, all the listed variants have direct template weapons. That means that they simply lay down the template and don't roll to hit. You opponent has to choose between dodging and essentially letting you continue your mad bike rampage, or shooting and praying they pass the save from the template (Not terribly likely, as templates ignore cover bonuses). They also all have Smoke Grenades, and a decent ability to throw them, that means as they wildly drive across the table, they can provide cover for the rest of your army, prevent shots at them, and set up avenues for your more high-tech Djanbazans to demolish foes.  The humble Maverick.  Desperados: It's high noon somewhere. Ariadna just picked up the Mavericks and Desperados. Desperados are pretty much identical to Kum Bikers, apart from three important factors: They don't have dogged, so the first bullet they eat causes them to die forever because nobody in their right mind would bother sending a doctor to pick one up. Second, Ariadna doesn't have the high tech MSV2, which allows you to see through the smoke they throw. Thirdly, Ariadna has badass werewolves which are slightly slower, but MUCH better at throwing smoke, and far more durable. Does this mean Desperados are bad? Hell no, they're just much more fragile than their Haqqislamite counterparts. Mavericks, I'm probably going to be more biased on. They have a bunch of variants, but only one that matters: The cheapest variant, the Forward Observer. This nifty lady can zip around the battlefield, claim objectives, and has an effective threat range of 32". I would not write a USAriadna list without one of these, if only to keep it concealed until the late game and go for an objective grab. If there's no real avenue for them to claim objectives, she's also quite effective at hunting down enemies with the Camoflage skill. Unlike all the other bikers mentioned so far, the Maverick is Regular. This means that while the other jerks are disorganized rabble already revving their hogs before the CO can say 'This is a covert oper-', the Maverick keeps a cool head and can let others use her order! At 19 points, she's a steal.  Weeabikers, left to right, front to back: Aragato Hacker, Aragato Spitfire, Aragato Combi Rifle, YOJIMBO, Asuka who is weirdly white and blonde here Yu Jing, and specifically Japanese Sectorial Army, have arguably the best bikers in the game. They're regular, they have Mimetism, which makes them harder to hit. They have medium armor, which makes them slightly more survivable, but don't bank on it. The Hacker is a specialist who can also engage in firefights quite well, as well as being a specialist. The true heroes here, however, are the Spitfire variant, and Yojimbo. The Spitfire is a fairly heavy weapon, and perfectly suited to a bike-mounted unit. In addition, it's bizarrely cheap. Whenever I've used him, I've always seen great returns. Yojimbo is hard to describe to a new player. He has an even better version of Dogged, No Wound Incapacitation, which is the same as Dogged, except he doesn't die at the end of the turn. He keeps going until he takes a second wound. He has Martial Arts, which means he has Stealth, which means despite the fact he's driving a motorbike at breakneck speeds, unless the enemy can see him, they can't react to him. He is accompanied by Crazy Koalas - Devious little gremlins that do nothing in your active turn, but in your reactive turn, automatically latch on to an enemy moving within 8" like a grim little teddy, then explode, like the most badass teddy ever. If he drives into close combat with someone, he will kill them, with few exceptions. Yojimbo can ONLY be taken by the Japanese Sectorial Army. He is incredible value for points. Asuka is... Well, she has really cool fluff. High school girl got addicted to motorbike races. Take the spitfire aragato instead.  Penthesilea: ALEPH controls the banks, but can only afford one bike Penny is interesting. She's quite a tidy little package. She has No Wound Incap like Yojimbo, an Optical Disruption Device which means that you're at -6 to hit her with shooting, I-KOHL L2 which means you're at -6 to punch her, and a Monofilament Close Combat weapon, the deadliest weapon in the game. However, at just over 40 points, she is the most expensive biker in the game, and suffers from being in ALEPH. If she were in Yu Jing or Nomads, she might be an auto-include. However, ALEPH armies tend to be so small that it's hard to justify 41 points on a model designed to kamikaze into the enemy , hoping to trade up. Each point is doubly precious to an ALEPH player, and a solo rambo piece of this cost causes quite a bit of trepidation. She has the potential to be devastating, but I would only recommend her to experienced players that understand fire lanes and can map where a model's meant to end the active turn. Diomedes suffers from the same thing. Hope this helps!
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Jul 12, 2016 16:10
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TAGS are useful as scalpels, not the blunt force that their size and armour may imply. Deploy defensively with your support forces and specialists and use the TAG to clear room on the board for them. Every army has soloists who are good for this function too, so it's really a matter of taste. TAGS can be really powerful, they can also go down to bad luck because every roll has a 5% chance of being a crit. Depends where you play and your skill level. For example I suck at games. I know the rules but am just not a very tactical thinker. I like to do cool poo poo and often don't think of trying to win until the last round. Your play style will be very different than mine. The thing with Infinity is that you are supposed to design your list AFTER you know what the mission is and who your opponent is. In a tournament setting you have two lists to choose from and get to pick your list when you know the mission and what army your opponent is play. I believe you choose right before you make your Lt roll, but I might be misremembering. In any case, my point is that if there are trap units in your army, it's because you choose poorly for the mission (or you are like me and don't really give a hoot). This saying gets bandied about quite often, but in Infinity "it's not your list, it's you" is a common belief. And I think there is some truth to it. Net lists aren't really a thing in any of the metas I have played in. Unless you count the Maya cast "list on a budget" type thing. But that's optimized for dollars, not winning any particular scenario.
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Jul 12, 2016 17:29
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Excellent bike post! I agree strongly about the V:Dogged skill, it is a massive bonus on anything, especially on aggressive template-weapon-carriers, and combined with the MOV value of bikes, it's insane. Basically you need high-powered and/or multiple AROs, and a bit of luck, to take them out on the approach. It is far easier for them to force enemy models to take ARM rolls than it is for a 4-4MOV, non-Dogged model. TAG/Aleph chat: this excellent player I faced at the last tourney I went to used a Marut. This TAG was used to great effect because, as someone said, my immediate tactic against such a model is to attack in my active turn and wreck it beyond repair - but the Marut has Strategos, meaning (among other things) I get no reserve model and he gets 2. So his deployment refused me the chance to kill his TAG, I had to try and restrict his order pool instead. Sir Teabag posted:This saying gets bandied about quite often, but in Infinity "it's not your list, it's you" is a common belief. And I think there is some truth to it. Net lists aren't really a thing in any of the metas I have played in. Unless you count the Maya cast "list on a budget" type thing. But that's optimized for dollars, not winning any particular scenario. Alright, so there is such thing as a good list in Infinity, as has already been gone into in by a lot of other posters. Things like plenty of orders, sensible split of reactive vs order-hungry models, having both long-range fire support and direct templates, etc. But while a good player can be less dangerous because he lacks those tools in his list, an inexperienced, unsure, reckless, or otherwise bad player will almost invariably lose to a better one. You would need a comically bad list, like 2 tags and nothing else, to really be beaten by your list against a noticeably weaker player. (always remembering luck. Infinity has few enough dice rolls, and they are decisive enough, that it is technically possible, if unlikely, for a strong player to make 4-5 excellent opening attack moves in turn 1, and get crit on each one, thus crippling his army and throwing away chances of victory)
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Jul 12, 2016 18:10
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Ilor posted:While every faction can do every kind of play-style, some support certain things better than others. For instance, if you like camouflage, play Ariadna. If you like heavy armor, Yu Jing is great. If you like hacking/tech-based attacks, Nomads do this best. If you like TAGs and Remotes, play PanO. If you like dirty tricks and being able to easily heal your troopers (and thus frustrate your opponent), play Haqqislam. If you like fireteam tactics, play Tohaa. And if you just like punching people in the face while madly cackling with glee, play CA. TAGs look awesome and I heard PanO is relatively straightforward to learn, so I'm definitely leaning towards them. Still trying to decide on a second faction. I'm not sold on hacking (looks really fiddly for what is effectively zone control) as a completely new player so I'm hesitant to go with the obvious solution and pick up O:IS. I'd prefer something with a relatively low model count, so not Ariadna (even though camo looks fun) or Haqqislam. Sir Teabag posted:My advice is pick on of the 8 factions that has the coolest looking units to you. Then buy them and play with them, and as you learn the game you will learn what style of play works best for you. I wouldn't recommend starting with a sectorial, because honestly you're going to buy every loving thing anyway because everything is so damned cool. The problem with this is how cool at least half the models in every faction look. I'm used to hating the aesthetics of at least half the factions, if not more, of the wargames I play. It makes choosing a faction a lot harder. Edit: Would also prefer a 2nd faction that plays fairly differently from PanO. KPC_Mammon fucked around with this message at 18:38 on Jul 12, 2016 |
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Jul 12, 2016 18:34
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Thanks guys! Lots of good info. I think I'll just try both of the armies in Red Veil, and then go from there, but the Haqqislam bikers do look pretty badass.
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Jul 12, 2016 18:38
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KPC_Mammon posted:I'd prefer something with a relatively low model count, so not Ariadna (even though camo looks fun) or Haqqislam.
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Jul 12, 2016 19:16
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All this TAG chat is reminding me of the bad old days of posting on the Infinity forums, days of scale creep arguments, "Swiss Guard are Useless", Experiments to prove TAGs sucked etc making me doubly convinced at the upcoming tournament I am going to I will take a 5-Bolt link and my Squalo I painted in Gundam colours and lose every game in style. Life is too short to worry about things like winning, I just want to put models on the table people won't expect.
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Jul 12, 2016 21:26
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