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did she come out swinging against tpp? white house rn:  HILLLARRRRRRRYYYY
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Jul 12, 2016 17:08
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I'm actually surprised she's speaking out against TPP here. I wonder if that'll make it into the stump speech. It'll be hard to claw back.
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Jul 12, 2016 17:08
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No Butt Stuff posted:That was the most human smile I've seen from her. Ever. She's a carnivore for sure.
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Jul 12, 2016 17:09
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Did she just say free college? e: holy poo poo.
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Jul 12, 2016 17:09
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Meanwhile, we are going to seriously consider trump's plan to deport all Muslims
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Jul 12, 2016 17:09
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No Butt Stuff posted:Did she just say free college? she has a tuition-free state schools plan, not covering some other costs of college, but yes
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Jul 12, 2016 17:09
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Joementum posted:I'm actually surprised she's speaking out against TPP here. I wonder if that'll make it into the stump speech. It'll be hard to claw back. There is no way it gets passed if it doesn't get passed in the lame duck.
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Jul 12, 2016 17:09
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No Butt Stuff posted:Did she just say free college? she's been on the free college band wagon for months. the difference between her and bernie was how to pay for it and who was eligible (she didn't want to make it eligible for 'donald trump's kids' )
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Jul 12, 2016 17:10
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Trabisnikof posted:There is no way it gets passed if it doesn't get passed in the lame duck. Yes, but because Obama is pushing for it, it has long been assumed that Hillary would just avoid talking about it as much as humanly possible.
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Jul 12, 2016 17:11
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Man she is really moving to the left in this speech
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Jul 12, 2016 17:11
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Arrgytehpirate posted:Man she is really moving to the left in this speech I guess if you've never paid attention to her positions before this it might seem this way.
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Jul 12, 2016 17:11
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Arrgytehpirate posted:Man she is really moving to the left in this speech This is where she's been for months.
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Jul 12, 2016 17:11
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No Butt Stuff posted:That was the most human smile I've seen from her. Ever. It's why I'm so hype for the debates. Hillary is goddamn vicious when she can just attack. Relating to people and making them feel emotions and poo poo not so much.
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Jul 12, 2016 17:12
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BI NOW GAY LATER posted:she's been on the free college band wagon for months. the difference between her and bernie was how to pay for it and who was eligible (she didn't want to make it eligible for 'donald trump's kids' ) I thought she was way more ambiguous than this.
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Jul 12, 2016 17:12
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No Butt Stuff posted:I thought she was way more ambiguous than this. Nope, it was pretty much the plan she laid out last-week-ish. It got lost in the liberal slapfight.
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Jul 12, 2016 17:13
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zoux posted:I guess if you've never paid attention to her positions before this it might seem this way. but the internet told me she's literally Bush
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Jul 12, 2016 17:14
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This event sounds cool and good and I'm glad the Bern man completed his mission 
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Jul 12, 2016 17:15
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No Butt Stuff posted:That was the most human smile I've seen from her. Ever. Hillary tears into Republican shitbags like a fish takes to water.
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Jul 12, 2016 17:15
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Dexo posted:It's why I'm so hype for the debates. Well I mean, emotions other than despair and fear for their political ambitions at least.
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Jul 12, 2016 17:16
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This dude gets calls from telemarketers and scammers all day long and still hasn't figured out how to screen calls. He tries threats and verbal abuse but the calls keep coming. Then, one day, a legitimate organization calls that he can actually contact and talk to someone. Out comes the rage. I've had a lot of experience with the phenomena.
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Jul 12, 2016 17:17
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BI NOW GAY LATER posted:Nope, it was pretty much the plan she laid out last-week-ish. It got lost in the liberal slapfight. Right, but that was just last week. If you look back at her college plans from a couple months ago it was expanded Pell grants, not free tuition. She has moved left on quite a few issues, that one included.
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Jul 12, 2016 17:17
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Clinton's college plan was never explicit about family contributions until recently, but was more explicit about where the money would come from. Basically the opposite of Sanders' plan, where his promises were clear but the mechanism was not.
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Jul 12, 2016 17:19
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Joementum posted:Right, but that was just last week. If you look back at her college plans from a couple months ago it was expanded Pell grants, not free tuition. She has moved left on quite a few issues, that one included. She literally proposed essentially free college in the primary, this isn't something new.
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Jul 12, 2016 17:19
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Hey, it was awesome seeing the Republican platform stuff. When do the Democrats do theirs?
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Jul 12, 2016 17:21
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BI NOW GAY LATER posted:She literally proposed essentially free college in the primary, this isn't something new. Her policy was need-based grants to cover gaps, coupled with a work requirement. Free in-state tuition is new.
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Jul 12, 2016 17:23
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Joementum posted:Her policy was need-based grants to cover gaps, coupled with a work requirement. Free in-state tuition is new. It's a new detail, but the intent has always been pretty clear. Here from as early as August 2015: http://www.vox.com/2015/8/10/9125349/hillary-clinton-college To me it's a semantic difference and a sort of natural policy evolution that comes from actually having a debate. Not some kind of, as implied, cynical swing left. BI NOW GAY LATER fucked around with this message at 17:29 on Jul 12, 2016 |
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Jul 12, 2016 17:24
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Doctor Butts posted:Hey, it was awesome seeing the Republican platform stuff. When do the Democrats do theirs?
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Jul 12, 2016 17:26
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It's almost like Bernie was a safe way for Hillary to shift left during the primary while retaining plausible deniability if questioned by the old DLC party apparatus from Bill's era. "Hillary, what are you doing? WE NEED THOSE LOAN PAYMENTS FROM GRADUATES!" "Sorry Jamie, would you rather Bernie win? He sure won't be losing to Donald Trump  "*Pushes free college and SPUHC anyway because what can JPMC do, revoke her presidency?* E: I need to remember to dig into the details of her college plan. It's cool to see the effort, but maybe there's similar support for vocational blue collar stuff like carpenters and plumbers and welders and mechanics. If you're a single parent you may not have time for an associate's let alone a bachelor's at an actual school, but getting technical training can help a heck of a lot. Childcare support for parents who attend higher ed/voc ed classes would probably help a heck of a lot. FAUXTON fucked around with this message at 17:34 on Jul 12, 2016 |
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Jul 12, 2016 17:28
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BI NOW GAY LATER posted:It's a new detail, but the intent has always been pretty clear. It's a detail that puts her current policy to the left of her old policy. I don't really get why there's so much reluctance to admit that her policies in many areas shifted to the left as a result of the primary.
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Jul 12, 2016 17:30
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Joementum posted:It's a detail that puts her current policy to the left of her old policy. I don't really get why there's so much reluctance to admit that her policies in many areas shifted to the left as a result of the primary. Because the immediate response from people is that SHE'S JUST DOING IT TO WIN VOTES AND DOESN'T BELIEVE IT, which is totally unfair.
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Jul 12, 2016 17:31
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BI NOW GAY LATER posted:It's a new detail, but the intent has always been pretty clear. The intent hasn't been at all clear unless you fill in the blanks with your own biases. Her position was that families need to make a "realistic contribution" to college costs, and current estimates of what families can "realistically" contribute are thoroughly unrealistic. She said "I believe we should focus on middle-class families, working families and poor kids who have the ambition and the talent to go to college and get ahead," which are a malleable definition of wealth. Putting an actual income number on it is a massive difference in how people perceive your policy.
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Jul 12, 2016 17:31
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BI NOW GAY LATER posted:This is where she's been for months. At this point I'm willing to accept people coming to the wrong conclusions if it gets everyone under the same loving tent because the prospect of a Donald Trump presidency is literally keeping me up at night
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Jul 12, 2016 17:31
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We're all winners here. It's okay to admit that bernie did a thing. YCS won't take away your posting credentials
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Jul 12, 2016 17:32
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I hope Bernie gets some good vacation time with Jane and the kids!
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Jul 12, 2016 17:32
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BI NOW GAY LATER posted:Because the immediate response from people is that SHE'S JUST DOING IT TO WIN VOTES AND DOESN'T BELIEVE IT, which is totally unfair. I think the opposition to TPP is questionable, but on the rest of this stuff I don't think it's been a cynical shift. It's what we want to happen in primary elections! A challenger demonstrates there's a lot of support for certain policy ideas and the other politicians adapt their plans to those new policies in a way they think will work.
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Jul 12, 2016 17:33
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BRAKE FOR MOOSE posted:The intent hasn't been at all clear unless you fill in the blanks with your own biases. Her position was that families need to make a "realistic contribution" to college costs, and current estimates of what families can "realistically" contribute are thoroughly unrealistic. She said "I believe we should focus on middle-class families, working families and poor kids who have the ambition and the talent to go to college and get ahead," which are a malleable definition of wealth. Putting an actual income number on it is a massive difference in how people perceive your policy. I suppose because I didn't start with a view of her as some cryptofascist conservative, Business Gorillas posted:We're all winners here. It's okay to admit that bernie did a thing. YCS won't take away your posting credentials I've never said that Bernie didn't shift the debate to the left. I am incredulous at the idea that it's some big radical shift and not a policy nuance.
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Jul 12, 2016 17:33
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emdash posted:she has a tuition-free state schools plan, not covering some other costs of college, but yes Er, that was Bernie's plan, to just have free tuition and not touch the other stuff. The plans Hillary was putting out were to drastically cut the combined total of tuition and all the other fees and costs you have to pay (lab fees, facilities fees, books, and so on), which is a lot more relevant given the heights the attached fees and costs have risen to for many public colleges and universities, where in some states they flat out are more money than the tuition.
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Jul 12, 2016 17:33
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BI NOW GAY LATER posted:a policy nuance. Ah I see you've identified the major difference between Hillary and Bernie.
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Jul 12, 2016 17:34
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https://twitter.com/DougJBalloon/status/752903744170360832
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Jul 12, 2016 17:34
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It would be nice to see some of the media people who melted down about Sanders never endorsing Clinton show some accountability and eat poo poo.
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Jul 12, 2016 17:34
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