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Jerusalem posted:This show just keeps getting better each week, and the end of each episode makes me wish it was next week already so I could see the next one. That entire awkward dinner scene was just wonderful. I have to say, I'm not coming at it from a comics POV so maybe I'd feel different then, but I agree. This episode was great and I find it hilarious some major review sites claimed it was playing too safe with it's characters early on. They've taken Jesse down a path straight to villain hood right now. At this point in the narrative, Cassidy is the most heroic person on the show and I have to admit, it takes balls to take your title character and make them a complete rear end in a top hat like that without punches pulled. Sure he'll likely seem some form of redemption, but I don't think it'll be reset button fast. Earned redemption is cool. Hell I'd applaud them if it doesn't come for a while, or even ever ultimately. Still I can't give the network poo poo for pushing the anti-hero line in a rather fascinating way. Oh one last thing.. if they try to excuse all this as "Genesis did it" I will take back every nice thing I said and say gently caress this. This is only awesome if Jesse's making these terrible choices under pressure and with his newfound power, because he's not a good person (but not an evil person either, likely why an angel/demon baby can accept him). Making it external would be a huge cop-out.
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Jul 11, 2016 12:47
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WickedHate posted:He's not innocent though. His self hatred and depression means he should probably have something seriously bad in his past or else his pain and the way people treat him would be too sympathetically unreasonable. I think the reveal enhances Eugene's story-it doesn't invalidate how good of a person he is now. It's redemption. If he's really to blame, I have a hard time with those kids from the previous episode who sincerely befriended him. I can see kids getting past his appearance and psychological issues to eat lunch with him, but I can't see them being all "hey Eugene's cool" if the murder-suicide thing is real. That's the kind of thing that would force the family to move away, not keep going to the same school and just take the lumps. In any case there has to be more to the story than the one Jesse matter-of-factly relates. The show has been doing decently well with taking these mundane tell-not-show exposition bits and turning them upside down; like that thing earlier where I was annoyed that Cassidy straight up told Jesse that he's a vampire, Grosse Pointe Blank style? Well, that came back in a big way as a plot point in this episode, so I can tell the writers seem to know what they're doing.
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Jul 11, 2016 13:05
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Accretionist posted:Didn't Shameless do that? It was definitely an issue with Battlestar Galactica. They filmed but ended up cutting a subplot for time, which became an issue because the fallout from it was important to what they were doing. So there was this insane situation where they just started doing "Previously on" for stuff that never aired.
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Jul 11, 2016 13:06
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I really like the direction they've taken Jesse. It makes him less one dimensional and actually gives some back story on who he is etc.. I think all the changes have been great.
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Jul 11, 2016 13:40
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Definitely dug this last episode a lot. Kind of a cheap choice to just leave you hanging on what happened to Cassidy, but we all know he's gonna be all right. Right?  The dinner scene was awesome, like Blazing said I'm digging Jesse's character progression but if they do just fall back on the "WELL THIS WEIRD THINGY IN YOUR CHEST DID IT" it'll be disappointing. I, for some reason, thought this was the penultimate episode of this season and was slightly confused, thinking that man they had a lot to wrap up in just one ep. Glad I was wrong!
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Jul 11, 2016 14:15
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Oh, Cassidy is going to be fine, they'd have to be insanely dumb to kill off one of the most important supporting characters in the entire story. They intentionally either didn't film or cut out, I'm sure, the part where Jesse inevitably sprays him down and covers him up. Pretty sure Cassidy did that as the most direct, no-poo poo way to tell Jesse he's not exactly human, per his conversation with Tulip wherein she asked if Cassidy had REALLY told Jesse he was a vampire. I seem to remember him telling Jesse he was a vampire, but in a more flippant, off-hand way without going into detail and I'm not even sure if it registered with Jesse. Even if he had just sat Jesse down and said, "Look, I'm a vampire, only the sun can kill me..." and Jesse wouldn't believe him anyway. It's kind of hard not to believe that when your vampire buddy decides to go out into sunlight and burns up in front of your eyes, that's really the only way he could tell Jesse what he was and have Jesse not be all, "bullshit" and laugh at him. Also, I don't know how such avid TV-watchers as TVIV goons have missed like almost every show in existence lately, wherein the "previously on" just shows scenes from the entirety of the season up to that point, rather than just scenes from the episode before. They do that a lot because sometimes people do kind of forget what happened a few episodes back, and in this way it's almost foreshadowing because if they show a scene from like 5 episodes ago in the "previously on", it probably means that something related to that scene or something to further the related plot point is going to happen in the upcoming episode. From what I've observed that's pretty common, and I rarely see a show that only shows scenes from the previous episode. Otherwise, you'd see something happen in the current episode and go, "What the hell does that have to do with anything?" and not remember that it's a continuation from a plot line started a few episodes ago. It's a way for viewers to keep the dots connected. life is killing me fucked around with this message at 15:25 on Jul 11, 2016 |
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Jul 11, 2016 15:20
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Data Graham posted:If he's really to blame, I have a hard time with those kids from the previous episode who sincerely befriended him. I can see kids getting past his appearance and psychological issues to eat lunch with him, but I can't see them being all "hey Eugene's cool" if the murder-suicide thing is real. That's the kind of thing that would force the family to move away, not keep going to the same school and just take the lumps. I dunno, it was after the mother had forgiven him and publicly hugged him. Maybe that was the impetus for him to start going back to school, too-I don't think he was shown attending before that, and the sheriff didn't even want him going to church. Either way, even if there is more to it, I'm still annoyed by everyone on Tumblr upset about the slightest hint Eugene isn't their innocent little pet who should only be forgiven when he didn't do anything actually wrong. WickedHate fucked around with this message at 17:01 on Jul 11, 2016 |
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Jul 11, 2016 16:57
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Johnny Truant posted:The dinner scene was awesome, like Blazing said I'm digging Jesse's character progression but if they do just fall back on the "WELL THIS WEIRD THINGY IN YOUR CHEST DID IT" it'll be disappointing. With the recent revelation of Dad Custer's attitudes towards the less fortunate and Jesse's prayers, they seem to be laying the groundwork that this evil has existed within him all along. Plus Tulip not buying anything he says about being "one of the good guys".
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Jul 11, 2016 19:03
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Echoing the enjoyment of reimagined Jesse. As much as I like the comic, one of the major drawbacks (among many many drawbacks) is that Jesse is literally 100% justified and right in everything he does. There's a few times when he does questionable things to people (forcing Hoover to count all the grains of sand for one), but the overall path Jesse takes on his hunt to make God accountable is pretty much justified. He barely learns anything during the entire trip and still keeps pulling his macho cowboy poo poo right up to the end, but overall Jesse is shown to be one of the "good guys" and on the side of right even if he does questionable/horrible things to get there. Jesse being a gently caress up on the show is way more interesting and having him come around to be good rather than unquestionably correct the entire time is a change for the better. Also, while the dinner table scene was great, everyone shaking their head at Tulip, right down to the mascot, was pitch perfect.
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Jul 11, 2016 20:49
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Also I have to give the show (and the comic?) props for Cassidy. I remembered he was a vampire, but I kind of expected him to be.. vampirey. Making him absolutely non-brooding and removing the angsty "I must drink human blood!" aspect makes him far, far more entertaining. Like he said, he only really kills people who are kind of asking for it, thus far - and it's never been to eat.
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Jul 11, 2016 21:03
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Yeah. That was one of the coolest things about the comic. Vampire just means "drinks blood, regenerates crazy quick from it, burns up in the sun". Being an angsty goth is no inherent part of any of this. There is a great side story midway through the comic that addresses this very explicitly 
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Jul 11, 2016 21:07
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If I can wish for one thing for this show it's that side story in its own episode. “Wankeeeers!“
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Jul 11, 2016 21:42
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My Lovely Horse posted:If I can wish for one thing for this show it's that side story in its own episode. If I don't get a solid full hour of Cassidy vs twilight cosplayers this show will truly be a failure.
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Jul 11, 2016 21:58
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shame on an IGA posted:If I don't get a solid full hour of Cassidy vs twilight cosplayers this show will truly be a failure. I want fat Death costume girl.
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Jul 11, 2016 22:27
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Blazing Ownager posted:it takes balls to take your title character and make them a complete rear end in a top hat like that without punches pulled.
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Jul 11, 2016 22:33
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shame on an IGA posted:If I don't get a solid full hour of Cassidy vs twilight cosplayers this show will truly be a failure. FWIW, if you haven't see it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iXpxnxAL62A
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Jul 11, 2016 22:33
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Mortanis posted:Also, while the dinner table scene was great, everyone shaking their head at Tulip, right down to the mascot, was pitch perfect. That mascot is gold. I loved that part in last night's episode, Tulip's over there with her drunk passed-out uncle and the mascot's just out there, you know, walking the dog like it's totally normal to be always dressed in a mascot suit even when doing mundane things.
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Jul 11, 2016 23:22
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shame on an IGA posted:If I don't get a solid full hour of Cassidy vs twilight cosplayers this show will truly be a failure. I guess Twilight ones would be more culturally relevant today but I'd still prefer it be the flowery, Anne Rice style megawanker of the original, that guy was one of the most punchable creations in a comic ever. And yeah, Fat Death is a must. I kinda feel bad liking Cass as much as I do, he's a completely vile dumpster fire of a 'human' being yet he's just so much fun.
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Jul 12, 2016 00:31
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Data Graham posted:If he's really to blame, I have a hard time with those kids from the previous episode who sincerely befriended him. I can see kids getting past his appearance and psychological issues to eat lunch with him, but I can't see them being all "hey Eugene's cool" if the murder-suicide thing is real. That's the kind of thing that would force the family to move away, not keep going to the same school and just take the lumps. The way things have been going after key uses of the voice, my guess is bleed over effect. When he orders Odin to serve god, he doesn't specify Odin serve god and immediately after you start having the weird scenes where suddenly the youth are debating which is the best gospel. Similarly, the area around Jesse's truck was packed with looky-loos when Jesse gave the order to forgive Eugene. It's possible his pleas to "come back" will have unintended listeners as well, but that seems less likely. As for Jesse this episode, I really like what they're doing. He's been convincing himself that he's doing god's will, and after the shock of actually sending Eugene to hell the only possible choices for someone to react are total breakdown or doubling down. So he doubles down, but we quickly learn that despite the brave front, he's freaking out inside. Instead of using the voice on the congregation he just uses his regular voice. Later, his pastoral duties are clearly dragging on him like they've never done before. Then you get the flashback and you realize that Jesse's been dealing with the belief that he ordered the death of his father since he was a child. Jesse's about to break, and it's going to be amazing when he does. Really the show is creating a better set-up for the search for god than the comic did. This is all some dark poo poo that's just been building in Jesse's life and by the end there's going to be a much better reason to be on a mission for God than just the congregation exploding when Jesse is possessed by a supernatural entity. Edit: What was the civil war preview? The only preview I saw had Donny wearing his Confederate uniform while leading the Meatmen troops against the church.
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Jul 12, 2016 00:32
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Donny works for Odin, and we saw Odin and his guys going for the church at the end of the episode, so maybe, weirdly, Odin is using Donny and his Civil War reenactors to actually bring real guns and help him take the church and land from Jesse.
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Jul 12, 2016 00:47
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To me, it seems that Jessie backed down at the end there. He had the PA system setup and he was poised to blast everyone with the "Serve God" command, but he backed off at the last second and just did the meek "serve god." Right now he thinks he has the word of god in him and because of that, his commands must be coming straight from the boss. That's how he rationalizes what he did to Eugene. It wasn't him, god spoke through him therefore it must be just and right. That seems to set things up nicely when he inevitably destroys the town by using the power. He'll want to seek out god to ask him 'why?'
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Jul 12, 2016 02:47
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What if he uses the Word and says "God drat you" ? Will they get smited?
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Jul 12, 2016 03:44
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Data Graham posted:In any case there has to be more to the story than the one Jesse matter-of-factly relates. I was thinking this too. Kinda hard to blow off the top off a girls head, have the whole town know you did it and not be locked up for life. Even if your dad is the sheriff.
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Jul 12, 2016 04:18
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Blazing Ownager posted:I have to say, I'm not coming at it from a comics POV so maybe I'd feel different then, but I agree. This episode was great and I find it hilarious some major review sites claimed it was playing too safe with it's characters early on. I read the comics when they first came out and absolutely loved them, but the TV show and its differences are really working well for me and it's been a pleasant surprise since I figured a Preacher adaptation would be awful. Blazing Ownager posted:Oh one last thing.. if they try to excuse all this as "Genesis did it" I will take back every nice thing I said and say gently caress this. This is only awesome if Jesse's making these terrible choices under pressure and with his newfound power, because he's not a good person (but not an evil person either, likely why an angel/demon baby can accept him). Making it external would be a huge cop-out. I agree, and I think this latest episode going back to Jesse's youth and showing he had these same anger issues and bullheadedness as a kid goes a long way towards suggesting the problem is with Jesse. He's effectively excusing his lovely behavior by falling back on the old,"This is God's will" bullshit assholes have used for millennia, and he needs a kick up the rear end and a wake-up call. Arguably he already had that since he breaks at the end of the episode and tries to bring Eugene back, but I do like we're seeing he's a reflection of his father's positive AND negative traits, and his old man wasn't some perfect heroic figure.
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Jul 12, 2016 04:40
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GreenNight posted:What if he uses the Word and says "God drat you" ? Will they get smited? drat(ing) = being damned to hell, so probably the same as "Go to Hell" Also they've been hinting that Jesse knows that God is being silent, Eugene remarked on it in the first episode. His rationalization that it is God's will and so on is just that, a weak rationalization for his lovely self-righteousness.
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Jul 12, 2016 04:45
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Data Graham posted:If he's really to blame, I have a hard time with those kids from the previous episode who sincerely befriended him. I can see kids getting past his appearance and psychological issues to eat lunch with him, but I can't see them being all "hey Eugene's cool" if the murder-suicide thing is real. That's the kind of thing that would force the family to move away, not keep going to the same school and just take the lumps. I'm still feeling like there's more to the Eugene storyline than has been revealed. Considering it's small town Texas, I'm guessing it's some sort of 'poorly hidden truth' like maybe it actually was a botched suicide pact, but Mrs. Loach couldn't deal with that fact, and spun it as 'she rejected him; he tried to kill her'; everyone knows it's not how it went down, hence those kids befriending him, but sure if she's within earshot, some of the townspeople will flip to 'it's a drat shame, what he did'. Jesse explaining it to Cass in such a flippant way makes me think that attempted murder wasn't it exactly, but since Jesse seems to be getting to his wit's end and accidentally sent him to Hell, he just popped off the 'fake truth' in a crappy attempt to justify himself. I might be misremembering since it was years ago when I read it, but there was an issue of the Walking Dead comic where a teen couple decided on a suicide pact. The plan was to shoot each other, but the boyfriend shot too soon/girlfriend couldn't bring herself to do it. The girl's father then saw what had happened and killed him out of grief, even though he tried to explain they had agreed upon it but she hadn't managed to pull the trigger.
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Jul 12, 2016 07:10
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LadyPictureShow posted:I might be misremembering since it was years ago when I read it, but there was an issue of the Walking Dead comic where a teen couple decided on a suicide pact. The plan was to shoot each other, but the boyfriend shot too soon/girlfriend couldn't bring herself to do it. The girl's father then saw what had happened and killed him out of grief, even though he tried to explain they had agreed upon it but she hadn't managed to pull the trigger. I think the boyfriend shot her in the heart, and that was one of the first realizations that you come back, no matter your cause of death? Whoever said Mrs Loach slinking a different story to make Eugene look bad, props, I'm jumping on that bandwagon. I realllllllly hope this next ep has the top of the iceberg of crazy 
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Jul 12, 2016 13:15
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Johnny Truant posted:I think the boyfriend shot her in the heart, and that was one of the first realizations that you come back, no matter your cause of death? Ah yeah, that's what it was. I just remembered 'botched suicide pact/ the dad snaps because the guy 'murdered' his daughter because they bungled their timing'. I'm also hoping for some real craziness to go down next episode. With only three episodes left, I feel like something big will go down, and by the finale Jesse will realize he got too full of himself and his reckless use of his power and the second season would focus more on him trying to reign himself in (while conveniently having to be on the run and having all the time in the world to join Tulip on that job she keeps needling him about). I didn't see the 'next time on Preacher' segment for the next episode, but I'm hoping we get to see Eugene in Hell, since I'm expecting he's being tormented by the whole Tracy thing and maybe we'll get some flashback to the event and we can finally see whose guesses in this thread were correct. He just comes off a such a genuine, soft-hearted person botched murder suicide comes off as a grieving mother simply lashing out and trying to place the blame somewhere and refusing to believe her girl who had everything going for her could secretly be hurting so badly on the inside that she'd want to end it all. I mentioned it before too, but people 'make up' stories to soften the blow, make it more palatable to themselves and others and try to paint the person in a better light. People get super cagey about 'accidents' and death, especially when it's something kinda scandalous. My best friend's mother was a severe alcoholic and while she was in the end stages of cirrhosis and organ failure, she had a brain aneurysm and died. The whole family was adamant that it was that, and the hospital's fault and refused to say anything about the fact that okay, that's what sealed the deal, but yeah, she was at death's door because she drank heavily since her teens. She said her father/aunts/uncles etc. pretty much ordered her and her sisters to never mention the drinking.
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Jul 12, 2016 16:23
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I don't think we're gonna see Hell. Whether it's a budget thing or a style thing or whatever, this series is being super thrifty with its effects and its locations and its visual craziness. Almost none of the outlandish stuff that we would have seen from the comic—the angels' reveal, Genesis' birth, Eugene's story—has shown up on-screen. Hell, you could even call the series a "bottle" show with how careful it's been to stick around just a few choice locations/setpieces. There's only even been a handful of SFX shots; Cassidy on fire was one of the biggest ones, and Eugene's makeup/CGI is probably a non-trivial recurring expense. Eugene going to hell wasn't even shown on-screen. They might be saving their wad for the season finale or something, or else they might be deliberately trying to keep the whole thing looking more or less mundane as a stylistic choice.
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Jul 12, 2016 16:39
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I'll be the skeptical one about Eugene's suicide pact. Normally with these things, the official story most technically mostly true, except for a small detail that changes the entire meaning. But if the girl really did reject Eugene, they wouldn't have had a pact. So the entire story would have to be fake, which would be pretty lame storytelling. And for them to kill each other, they'd need two guns, in this case shotguns, which would be large and awkward to point at each other at the same time, instead of handguns. It's certainly not within the character we've seen to murder someone out of jealously, but it's not really in character to suicide pact either, but I suppose it is closer. Maybe Eugene used to be more of an rear end in a top hat like his father, and his brush with death changed him, either just through the trauma of dealing with it or because of a pellet still in his brain.
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Jul 12, 2016 18:49
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Data Graham posted:They might be saving their wad for the season finale or something, or else they might be deliberately trying to keep the whole thing looking more or less mundane as a stylistic choice. I get the latter impression. Think of it from the POV of the show runners: They were handed a comic that is full of insane stuff to the point it's been considered impossible to film for the better part of a decade, and told to make it work on a TV network that is totally OK with insane violence but limiting swearing/language because.. AMC's ridiculous I guess? (They totally go R rated but can't bring themselves to go full R like HBO, boggles the mind). What do you do with something like that? You try to ground it. Grounding it a little bit and easing people into the insanity - rather than throwing them in head first - is vital. Keep in mind the majority of reviews dig the show but already find it so strange and odd-ball it's hard for them to keep a handle on it. A big dose of TV budget special effects (unless you're talking insane 12 million dollar budgets like major GoT set pieces) and more insight into the insane world of the supernatural right at the start would have made their brains melt. Long story short, I've not read the comic, but even I can tell it's grounded a bit - and I think it was the right call. Spend more time with the characters, why they're in conflict, what they're doing, and learn about them and where they're going. They'll have plenty of time to ramp up the bat poo poo in the next season. How are the ratings doing BTW? I know it's been getting great critical reviews but I know the subject matter might hurt the thing a good deal in the US. life is killing me posted:Donny works for Odin, and we saw Odin and his guys going for the church at the end of the episode, so maybe, weirdly, Odin is using Donny and his Civil War reenactors to actually bring real guns and help him take the church and land from Jesse. I think the PA speaker Chekov's Gun is about to go off like a cannon, too Blazing Ownager fucked around with this message at 18:55 on Jul 12, 2016 |
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Jul 12, 2016 18:52
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Huh, I never thought this show would actually include the furry fandom, but there you go.
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Jul 12, 2016 18:58
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They've supposedly greenlit a second season already, so the ratings must be okay.
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Jul 12, 2016 19:11
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counterfeitsaint posted:And for them to kill each other, they'd need two guns, in this case shotguns, which would be large and awkward to point at each other at the same time, instead of handguns. This is the dumbest explanation for why it couldn't be a suicide pact yet, keep em comin TVIV...
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Jul 12, 2016 19:13
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Hey c'mon, they could have rigged up an awesome Rube Goldberg device.
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Jul 12, 2016 19:19
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Johnny Truant posted:This is the dumbest explanation for why it couldn't be a suicide pact yet, keep em comin TVIV... I think the fact that shotguns would have been used means that the shells would've accounted for the weird awkward size of the shotguns themselves. They'd barely need to aim...
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Jul 12, 2016 19:31
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Anyone think the god Quinncannon is serving is Odin?
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Jul 12, 2016 20:32
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Data Graham posted:I don't think we're gonna see Hell. Whether it's a budget thing or a style thing or whatever, this series is being super thrifty with its effects and its locations and its visual craziness. I think at most if they show Eugene in 'Hell' it would just be dark with spooky, oppressive, foreboding lighting scheme. counterfeitsaint posted:Maybe Eugene used to be more of an rear end in a top hat like his father, and his brush with death changed him, either just through the trauma of dealing with it or because of a pellet still in his brain. Not really much of a spoiler from the comics, but in them, he and his one friend were outcasts/bullied/unpopular and they decided to go out like their idol Kurt Cobain. After botching it and a conversation with his friend's sister, he got a new perspective on life and became happy-go-lucky and upbeat. So yeah, his attitude in the current time of the show might be leaps different from before he became Arseface. LadyPictureShow fucked around with this message at 21:16 on Jul 12, 2016 |
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Jul 12, 2016 21:12
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LadyPictureShow posted:I think at most if they show Eugene in 'Hell' it would just be dark with spooky, oppressive, foreboding lighting scheme. Yeah no way are they showing fire and brimstone Hell. They'll do the Eugene alone with voices whispering "murderer" in the dark as he cries if anything.
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Jul 12, 2016 21:17
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Medullah posted:Yeah no way are they showing fire and brimstone Hell. They'll do the Eugene alone with voices whispering "murderer" in the dark as he cries if anything. The "Not enough gun" scene will probably be shot on super 8 in Rogan's backyard with plastic army men.
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Jul 13, 2016 00:41
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