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I will say I like Olivetti's brick shithouse Frank Castle. He just looks like an angry block of muscle.
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Jul 13, 2016 19:39
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RandallODim posted:I will say I like Olivetti's brick shithouse Frank Castle. He just looks like an angry block of muscle. He draws everyone like that. In a storyline featuring Cable and Stryfe I was confused because he drew Elixir as ALSO looking like them.
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Jul 13, 2016 19:58
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catlord posted:I have to see this. I didn't see anything just searching his name and Quake, which comics would these be? It's from the Fraction written Punisher War Journal series that gave us the very popular "gun that shoots swords" page. I don't recall the exact issue though. DarkCrawler posted:How is this person professionally employed The same reason Greg Land gets work. They can churn out pages faster than almost any other artist.
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Jul 13, 2016 20:37
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Endless Mike posted:Yes. That's her dad. Does that mean her name is "Paige Turner"? Bleh.
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Jul 13, 2016 20:41
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Moacher posted:Does that mean her name is "Paige Turner"? Bleh. It does and I didn't notice that and now I'm angry. Thanks for ruining a good and cool comic for me, jerk.
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Jul 13, 2016 21:02
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Endless Mike posted:It does and I didn't notice that and now I'm angry. Thanks for ruining a good and cool comic for me, jerk. Maybe that's what her dad got arrested for?
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Jul 13, 2016 21:40
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I think probably a lot of artists and illustrators swiped/traced references as far back as the advent of photography. I majored in Illustration at UA in Philadelphia and one of the first things they taught us to was to build a reference file. Like most artists, I felt it was "cheating" to look at a picture before I realized every professional did that. So, for the longest time, I had a bunch of flat bed style boxes and manilla folders of stuff i'd gathered from magazines, all categorized and labeled by subject and what not. I would swipe magazines from doctors offices and from trash bins off the side of the road to build my files. It helped me immeasurably. Eventually, I started experimenting with collage and mixed media. A lot of colleagues saw it as cheating and I'm still not certain where the line is drawn, no pun intended, but the way I looked at it was "I am using GARBAGE to create art". I had literally found most of my photographic reference in the trash. It's a little like sampling and hip hop. You can sample like Terminator X, Tricky, Eric B and Rakim or the Beastie Boys' Paul's Boutique and really create something unique out of it or you can just flat steal something like MC Hammer or Vanilla Ice and call it a new song. I'm pretty sure a lot of artists have always "traced". You still have to know how to draw to do it effectively though and the biggest difference now is you can just Google an image so everyone is working from the same sources. That's why, like Alex Ross, I always try to take my own photos and work from those. Even back when I relied on my reference library, I reached a point where I no longer used National Geographic or Time because they were too well known. I still have that reference library, believe it or not, and have begun assembling them into ideas for collages and paintings just to use them up and have something to show for them.
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Jul 13, 2016 22:17
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Nobody is faulting artists for using reference, it's when you can find the exact image Greg Land traced with a quick Google search (especially when it leads to a character's hair changing in literally every panel on a page) or when Olivetti is using Quake screenshots for backgrounds that there's an issue.
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Jul 13, 2016 22:21
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BiggerBoat posted:I think probably a lot of artists and illustrators swiped/traced references as far back as the advent of photography. I threw out my morgue file years ago simply because of the internet. I can google a building or an animal or whatever. for reference so no longer needed the physical media taking up space. But like Endless Mike said, big difference between using photo reference and flat out tracing and stealing.
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Jul 13, 2016 22:58
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Yeah uh no one has a problem with looking at a picture. Tracing or literally using a photo of grass as the background is the issue.
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Jul 14, 2016 01:01
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Ferrule posted:I threw out my morgue file years ago simply because of the internet. I can google a building or an animal or whatever. for reference so no longer needed the physical media taking up space. Agreed but I've found that you still have to know how to DRAW to even trace effectively. Maybe that's the difference in the artists we're discussing.
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Jul 14, 2016 01:15
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Honestly even using a lovely photoshop filter to make it at least appear drawn would be an improvement. Nobody has a problem with artists using references, or even tracing as long as you make an effort to fit it in with the rest of the art. That's the big problem with guys like Olivetti and Land: it just looks bad.
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Jul 14, 2016 01:25
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Alex Maleev uses a lot of photo reference in his work. A good deal of his NYC skylines in Daredevil are photo-traced. The difference is, he want and took every single one of those pictures himself.
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Jul 14, 2016 01:28
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I mean
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Jul 14, 2016 01:39
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JoshTheStampede posted:He draws everyone like that. In a storyline featuring Cable and Stryfe I was confused because he drew Elixir as ALSO looking like them. Olivetti's work wasn't too bad when he did the two part "The Last Avengers Story". I guess with modern computers it is just easier to trace
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Jul 14, 2016 04:16
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Darick Robertson and Alex Ross use heavy photo references, but the thing is that they usually take the photos themselves to get the poses right, then base their drawings on those photos. Which is why their art doesn't look like awkward out of place poser bullshit, and the references can't be found with a 10 second google search. It's probably also why Ross' spandex men tend to have aggressive bulges.
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Jul 14, 2016 05:41
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Lurdiak posted:Darick Robertson and Alex Ross use heavy photo references, but the thing is that they usually take the photos themselves to get the poses right, then base their drawings on those photos. Which is why their art doesn't look like awkward out of place poser bullshit, and the references can't be found with a 10 second google search. While I find his work a bit static, I've always appreciated that Ross is one of very few artists who makes superhero outfits look like actual clothing.
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Jul 14, 2016 05:50
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Lurdiak posted:Darick Robertson and Alex Ross use heavy photo references, but the thing is that they usually take the photos themselves to get the poses right, then base their drawings on those photos. Which is why their art doesn't look like awkward out of place poser bullshit, and the references can't be found with a 10 second google search. Add Tony Harris to that list.
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Jul 14, 2016 08:34
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Jedit posted:Add Tony Harris to that list. Tony Harris is not really a positive example, his interior art suffers because of bad "acting" of his models. Maleev always looks better thanks to extensive inking and great use of contrast in colors.
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Jul 14, 2016 08:41
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E: Nvm got names confused again.
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Jul 14, 2016 09:18
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The type of reference an artist uses is interesting. I met a painter in college who made a foamcore model of a skyscraper with printouts of the building to get the lighting right. Disney had a whole bookcase of National Geographics for The Jungle Book. And Norman Rockwell's photography is almost as cool as his paintings.
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Jul 14, 2016 15:20
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Seeing people praise Rockwell here, and poo poo on other people who trace is kinda funny. Not saying his work wasn't fantastic.
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Jul 14, 2016 15:26
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David Petersen, the Mouse Guard guy, builds architectural models to keep spatial continuity. Here are the blog posts where he shows them off: http://davidpetersen.blogspot.com/search/label/Model
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Jul 14, 2016 15:26
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General Ironicus posted:David Petersen, the Mouse Guard guy, builds architectural models to keep spatial continuity. Here are the blog posts where he shows them off: http://davidpetersen.blogspot.com/search/label/Model That is very  . Thanks for the link. 
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Jul 14, 2016 15:27
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General Ironicus posted:David Petersen, the Mouse Guard guy, builds architectural models to keep spatial continuity. Here are the blog posts where he shows them off: http://davidpetersen.blogspot.com/search/label/Model Wow these are great. Small scale architecture is something I wish I was good at. Thankfully there's Lego for talentless folks like me!
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Jul 14, 2016 15:29
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Chaos Hippy posted:While I find his work a bit static, I've always appreciated that Ross is one of very few artists who makes superhero outfits look like actual clothing. I don't particularly love Ross due to it seeming really static, but yeah, I do love how he draws costumes.
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Jul 14, 2016 15:43
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Kinda tangential, but if you dig small scale architecture, I recommend the 60s era Toho fantasy/disaster/monster/war flicks. It's easy to look at mondern stuff like Power Rangers and think the buildings all looked as generic, but Eiji Tsubaraya's special effects work when he had film budgets put incredible levels of details in the miniatures. There's a story where he got in trouble with the US Military because they thought he did illegal flyovers of a carrier for film footage...until he showed them the realistic 8 foot model he made for the shot.
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Jul 14, 2016 19:27
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For places like NYC I dunno how you could draw without reference photos unless you live there and/or know it really well just cuz it's so recognizable and Manhattan definitely has its own look compared to the surrounding boroughs and it'd look pretty weird if you make poo poo up and get everything wrong.
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Jul 14, 2016 19:41
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zoux posted:The moment I realized Olivetti sucked.    Endless Mike posted:I don't particularly love Ross due to it seeming really static, but yeah, I do love how he draws costumes. I like him on covers tons more than on interior work - especially for Astro City. This is why I really can't stand Kingdom Come. I mean, beyond the writing. Marvels I think is written well, but I can't look at it either. I think some artists get the message "If my art is 'realistic' and painted, then people will praise me to the heavens!" from Ross's success, though. However, there are painterly comics artists who I think do a way better job than him, and still manage to have their art look like comics instead of a bad imitation of a Saturday Evening Post special edition. When I have some time I'll post some examples. Lightning Lord fucked around with this message at 21:34 on Jul 14, 2016 |
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Jul 14, 2016 21:30
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Since some of you mentioned Alex Ross, I thought I'd ask this. I love his art, but he does that thing that Bruce Timm does where every male face is an identical 1940s-50s square-jawed manly man. I know part of this is because when you're working with superheroes, you want to make them exaggeratedly ideal artistically, and I'm sure someone can point to all the Grecian statues and DaVinci's treatises on proportions, but is there a comic book artist who aims for realism in the sense that every character looks like themselves and no one else? Maybe I'm just mad because I was a deprived child who remembers having to identify all the female X-Men by costumes first and hair color second, but let's no go into that because this thread has given those dead horse more attention than they deserve.
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Jul 14, 2016 23:39
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Alvarez IV posted:Since some of you mentioned Alex Ross, I thought I'd ask this. I love his art, but he does that thing that Bruce Timm does where every male face is an identical 1940s-50s square-jawed manly man. I know part of this is because when you're working with superheroes, you want to make them exaggeratedly ideal artistically, and I'm sure someone can point to all the Grecian statues and DaVinci's treatises on proportions, but is there a comic book artist who aims for realism in the sense that every character looks like themselves and no one else? Maybe I'm just mad because I was a deprived child who remembers having to identify all the female X-Men by costumes first and hair color second, but let's no go into that because this thread has given those dead horse more attention than they deserve. If I recall correctly, Ross uses models for photo reference. It's likely that hiring enough models to provide a variety of faces would strain even a superstar artist's budget.
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Jul 15, 2016 05:29
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I don't even think he hires models so much as gets his friends and family to pose for him. He mentions in this interview that he used his coworkers.
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Jul 15, 2016 06:13
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That, and some heroes have faces modeled after stuff from that period for him as well. Supes is based on the Fleischer version, and Captain Marvel is Fred Macmurray, iirc
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Jul 15, 2016 10:26
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Endless Mike posted:I don't even think he hires models so much as gets his friends and family to pose for him. He mentions in this interview that he used his coworkers. Yeah, isn't one of his Joker and Harley Quinn paintings just very obviously him and his wife? Or maybe I'm thinking of a different famous DC couple he drew.
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Jul 15, 2016 14:56
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Lurdiak posted:Yeah, isn't one of his Joker and Harley Quinn paintings just very obviously him and his wife? Or maybe I'm thinking of a different famous DC couple he drew. Haven't seen the painting you're talking about but the old man in Kingdom Come is his dad so I wouldn't be surprised.
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Jul 15, 2016 17:33
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Lurdiak posted:Yeah, isn't one of his Joker and Harley Quinn paintings just very obviously him and his wife? Or maybe I'm thinking of a different famous DC couple he drew. A few of his books have articles and photos that show his process. In fact, I think his hardcover collection goes into this a lot. I love reading that stuff too; watching a piece from inception to finish. Alex Ross is really good and I enjoy his work but he's had that "all his art looks the same" element for a long time now and hasn't really evolved. He overuses dramatic lighting all the time and his storytelling composition is not great/pretty bad and he can't paint fire or chrome for poo poo, so his Human Torch and Silver Surfer look terrible. I think he suffers from the normal backlash and blowback of being so popular for so long that he's no longer cool, but his impact is undeniable and the way you felt when you first saw his stuff was amazingly fresh and head turning. BiggerBoat fucked around with this message at 17:43 on Jul 15, 2016 |
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Jul 15, 2016 17:41
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Lightning Lord posted:
That second cover looks like it was made using unused models from Beast Wars
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Jul 15, 2016 21:08
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Is that Dum Dum Dugan with a camo metal bowler hat?
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Jul 16, 2016 08:35
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hup posted:Is that Dum Dum Dugan with a camo metal bowler hat? Yes it is. U.S. War Machine was actually not terrible. I mean, it looked terrible and the lettering was terrible and the writing was so '90s it hurt... okay, it actually was pretty terrible. But it wasn't Chuck Austen terrible.
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Jul 16, 2016 09:59
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For like the 5 children left on SA who don't know, "Chuck Austen Terrible" is absolutely the right descriptor. His nadir is what bad writing dreams about becoming when it lies in bed at night. It's not "so bad it's infamous" writing that is "too rare to live and too weird to die" like Tommy Wiseau's "The Room" or that Stardust comic from the 30s. No it's the writing equivalent of Freddy Kruger where the community collectively agrees to have its name burnt from the record and buried too deep for anyone to find it, save for backyard whispers in dusty corners of forgotten internet forums. It is the kind-of writing where the line between incompetence and deliberate malice for the reader is so blurred it would make David Goyer and Zack Snyder applaud with vicious envy. It is the kind of mind where this: is on the higher end of quality. You ever want to badmouth Bendis or even Mark Millar? There is so much further to fall. So much further.
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