X-Wing: Let's Fly Some Wangs

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Traditional Games > X-Wing: Let's Fly Some Wangs

Finster Dexter: Oct 20, 2014; Beyond is Finster's mad vision of Earth transformed.

Tekopo posted:

I've always based my own interpretation of ships from X-Wing/TIE Fighter, in which the TIE/ln is indeed more manoeuvrable than an X-Wing. IIRC both the X-Wing and TIE FIghter were meant to have the same speed in space, with both of them clocking in at 100 Megalights, while the TIE Interceptor had 111 and the a-wing 120. The only discrepancy between the film and the video game is the Y-Wing IMO, which isn't too bad in the film but in the video games it's a huge pile of crap.

Also imp aces should be a thing, and I think it makes sense in a canon way because in order to survive as an imp ace you need a heck of a lot of balls, so only the truly good remain. I agree that reb aces should still be dominant though, but these are just all issues that were created in the first few waves because they didn't really see what direction the game was going afterwards.

FFG obviously bases a lot of their design on those old games, too, I think. And I'm fine with there being imp aces, but if you think "aces" you should, imo, think of rebels first and foremost, but you don't because the imp aces are ridiculous in terms of both abilities and cost compared to rebel aces.

# ? Jul 13, 2016 22:56

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# ? May 16, 2024 17:05

Finster Dexter: Oct 20, 2014; Beyond is Finster's mad vision of Earth transformed.

I think all of the TIE Defender abilities should've been ARC abilities and vice versa.

# ? Jul 13, 2016 22:58

Tekopo: Oct 24, 2008; When you see it, you'll shit yourself.

The issue with rebels aren't their aces. Reb aces have some downright incredible abilities, what with Wedge, Luke, Poe, Dash, Kanan, Biggs, Wes, Jake, Tycho etc.

The problem with rebel aces is that some of the aces with incredible abilities are tied down to ships that aren't all that good. Jake is an amazing pilot with an amazing ability but his ship is strictly worse than a TIE Interceptor. Wedge and Luke are amazing but the T-65 is still kind of crap. And low agility small ships are kind of bad at the moment because using aces on them is just asking for them to be killed, and this is across the board from both the Scum, Imp and Rebel perspective.

# ? Jul 13, 2016 23:01

alg: Mar 14, 2007; A wolf was no less a wolf because a whim of chance caused him to run with the watch-dogs.

If Push the Limit had never been printed and Imp Aces didn't have game breaking action economy Rebel aces would actually be worth playing. Palpatine is another card that shouldn't have been printed.

# ? Jul 13, 2016 23:05

Some Numbers: Sep 28, 2006; "LET'S GET DOWN TO WORK!!"

I think PtL would still be okay if Fel didn't exist.

# ? Jul 13, 2016 23:06

Tekopo: Oct 24, 2008; When you see it, you'll shit yourself.

Without push the limit it is unlikely that arc-dodging aces would be a thing in the game at all, though. I like arc dodging aces, and it makes Aces fun to play. Palpatine does make aces too reliable, however, on that I can agree, which is why I flew trip aces at Yavin.

EDIT: I'd rather see Palp go than Fel. There is enough counterplay to Fel IMO.

Tekopo fucked around with this message at 23:09 on Jul 13, 2016

# ? Jul 13, 2016 23:07

Corbeau: Sep 13, 2010; Jack of All Trades

Eimi posted:

Shara not being a hotshot ace stings me the most, because firstly she's Poe's mom and then secondly she is normally an A-wing pilot.

I also never saw B-wings as incredibly clunky, more the P-38 Lightning to the Xwing's P-51 Mustang. (Or is the Xwing the Spitfire? I don't know enough about British planes to know what that makes the B-Wing though.)

I do think both sides should have cool ace pilots and characters, but yes that Imperial generics should've been more useful and comparatively Rebels would have more weight to go with named pilots. c'est la vie.

I still have no idea why as a space superiority fighter the Xwing can't make a 1 hard though.

Because the X-Wing is the Wildcat to the TIE's Zero. You're looking at the wrong theater.

# ? Jul 13, 2016 23:10

alg: Mar 14, 2007; A wolf was no less a wolf because a whim of chance caused him to run with the watch-dogs.

Tekopo posted:

Without push the limit it is unlikely that arc-dodging aces would be a thing in the game at all, though. I like arc dodging aces, and it makes Aces fun to play. Palpatine does make aces too reliable, however, on that I can agree, which is why I flew trip aces at Yavin.

EDIT: I'd rather see Palp go than Fel. There is enough counterplay to Fel IMO.

If you don't want to play Imp Aces it forces certain choices and makes the game pretty boring, though.

# ? Jul 13, 2016 23:11

Eimi: Nov 23, 2013; I will never ~~log off~~shut up.

Tekopo posted:

Without push the limit it is unlikely that arc-dodging aces would be a thing in the game at all, though. I like arc dodging aces, and it makes Aces fun to play. Palpatine does make aces too reliable, however, on that I can agree, which is why I flew trip aces at Yavin.

Yeah, and the action economy ships are just fun to fly. I love flying with Jake or Fel, or now with someone like Sabine. Having all those movement actions is just fun. I almost think more something to split up movement actions and dice consistency actions, but I'm not a game designer.

I mean PTL is fun, the issue is almost more that Rebel ships just cannot use it (or are A Wings and aces with 2 dice primaries are not that hot.) Any ship with an astro could potentially take it, but because they are overcosted the astro slot on an ace is usually needed to try and keep them in the game longer, rather than slapping on R2 to give you an incredible dial. If Rebel aces were costed correctly, they could do that. Of course given that we are getting a 33 point PS9 Poe, that lesson is not being applied anytime soon.

# ? Jul 13, 2016 23:11

Corbeau: Sep 13, 2010; Jack of All Trades

We've had this discussion before: the correct design answer would be to go back in time, delete PtL, give everyone a free Focus action each turn (as long as they're not stressed, of course), and balance accordingly. Doing stuff is fun.

# ? Jul 13, 2016 23:14

Eimi: Nov 23, 2013; I will never ~~log off~~shut up.

Corbeau posted:

We've had this discussion before: the correct design answer would be to go back in time, delete PtL, give everyone a free Focus action each turn (as long as they're not stressed, of course), and balance accordingly. Doing stuff is fun.

I wouldn't mind an XWing 2.0 where they do something like that, and redesign/fix stuff. But how they'd give everyone the proper redesigned cards would be a nightmare.

# ? Jul 13, 2016 23:15

Tekopo: Oct 24, 2008; When you see it, you'll shit yourself.

alg posted:

If you don't want to play Imp Aces it forces certain choices and makes the game pretty boring, though.

That's true of any top of the meta list, they tend to define the game, which is something that happened similarly with u-boats. Or when the Phantom was used. Or when Han ruled the roost. I think the perfect balance for arc-dodgers as a whole was when ATs came out: they felt just right at that stage, and the issue after that, was Palp. Trip aces is a pretty good list but it is by no means meta-defining in the way that palp aces currently is.

You can make reb aces that absolutely destroy Aces, but then run foul of jumpies. I faced a Wes/Tycho/Jake list that absolutely destroyed my trip aces because they had PS advantage, but that list against trip jumps would struggle. I used to fly Ten Numb and stressbot lists with a B-Wing tactician and it absolutely destroyed aces, but I stopped playing it because of jumpies.

# ? Jul 13, 2016 23:19

alg: Mar 14, 2007; A wolf was no less a wolf because a whim of chance caused him to run with the watch-dogs.

Also yeah Rebel aces are universally overcosted. That's why when repugnant poo poo like R3 come out it's so disappointing.

# ? Jul 13, 2016 23:26

Improbable Lobster: Jan 6, 2012; "From each according to his ability" said Ares. It sounded like a quotation.; Buglord

Tekopo posted:

I've always based my own interpretation of ships from X-Wing/TIE Fighter, in which the TIE/ln is indeed more manoeuvrable than an X-Wing. IIRC both the X-Wing and TIE FIghter were meant to have the same speed in space, with both of them clocking in at 100 Megalights, while the TIE Interceptor had 111 and the a-wing 120. The only discrepancy between the film and the video game is the Y-Wing IMO, which isn't too bad in the film but in the video games it's a huge pile of crap.

Also imp aces should be a thing, and I think it makes sense in a canon way because in order to survive as an imp ace you need a heck of a lot of balls, so only the truly good remain. I agree that reb aces should still be dominant though, but these are just all issues that were created in the first few waves because they didn't really see what direction the game was going afterwards.

In the films the X-Wing, TIE and Y-Wing all fly about the same speed and get shot down with one or two hits. Then again so does just about every non-capital ship besides the Falcon, especially in A New Hope.

# ? Jul 13, 2016 23:28

Devlan Mud: Apr 10, 2006; I'll hear your stories when we come back, alright?

My local store got their summer GNKs in today, so those the rush for stress tokens begins.

# ? Jul 14, 2016 00:15

canyoneer: Sep 13, 2005; I only have canyoneyes for you

Corbeau posted:

Because the X-Wing is the Wildcat to the TIE's Zero. You're looking at the wrong theater.

Now I wanna Thach Weave with some X Wings and dunk on some TIEs

# ? Jul 14, 2016 00:19

Panzeh: Nov 27, 2006; "..The high ground"

The z-95 is the wildcat. The x-wing is like the P-40.

# ? Jul 14, 2016 00:27

General Battuta: Feb 7, 2011; This is how you communicate with a fellow intelligence: you hurt it, you keep on hurting it, until you can distinguish the posts from the screams.

canyoneer posted:

Now I wanna Thach Weave with some X Wings and dunk on some TIEs

This should absolutely be the rebel answer to arc dodgers. Unfortunately the good arc dodgers aren't going to be scared of a single 3-dice attack.

It's kind of weird that good arc dodging is inseparable from good action economy. Feels like it should be one or the other: dodge arcs or token up but not both.

# ? Jul 14, 2016 00:39

Brunas: Nov 5, 2012

So I disappeared for a bit, sorry Talas and Strobe. I'm also out of town this weekend to make things harder! Will be around all afternoon/evening tomorrow EST if you guys are free to play! If not, sorry for being out of touch, feel free to take your 100-0 victory.

I'll send out contact info for the promos tonight - for serious this time.

And mr chill, let me know if you want the details for swg private servers. Didn't want to post it on FB, just forgot that Talonbane was such a scrubby midboss and had to share.

# ? Jul 14, 2016 01:17

Endman: May 18, 2010; That is not dead which can eternal lie, And with strange aeons even anime may die

Panzeh posted:

The z-95 is the wildcat. The x-wing is like the P-40.

That's a good way to put it. The Z-95 even looks kinda like the Wildcat if you shift the wings back a bit.

# ? Jul 14, 2016 01:42

Endman: May 18, 2010; That is not dead which can eternal lie, And with strange aeons even anime may die

General Battuta posted:

This should absolutely be the rebel answer to arc dodgers. Unfortunately the good arc dodgers aren't going to be scared of a single 3-dice attack.

It's kind of weird that good arc dodging is inseparable from good action economy. Feels like it should be one or the other: dodge arcs or token up but not both.

This is what makes Soontir so disgusting - he can do both in the same round.

# ? Jul 14, 2016 01:43

Strobe: Jun 30, 2014; GW BRAINWORMS CREW

1 pt EPT, Rebel only
"Antilles Weave"

When you reveal a [k-turn] or [tallon roll] maneuver, you may instead choose to perform a white [2 bank] maneuver, then a [1 hard] maneuver in the opposite direction. Then receive one stress token.

# ? Jul 14, 2016 02:09

Talas: Aug 27, 2005

Brunas posted:

So I disappeared for a bit, sorry Talas and Strobe. I'm also out of town this weekend to make things harder! Will be around all afternoon/evening tomorrow EST if you guys are free to play! If not, sorry for being out of touch, feel free to take your 100-0 victory.

I'll send out contact info for the promos tonight - for serious this time.

And mr chill, let me know if you want the details for swg private servers. Didn't want to post it on FB, just forgot that Talonbane was such a scrubby midboss and had to share.

That would be good since I'm currently in the US until next monday.

# ? Jul 14, 2016 02:15

Finster Dexter: Oct 20, 2014; Beyond is Finster's mad vision of Earth transformed.

Strobe posted:

1 pt EPT, Rebel only
"Antilles Weave"

Action: When you reveal a [k-turn] or [tallon roll] maneuver, you may instead choose to perform a white [2 bank] maneuver, then a [1 hard] maneuver in the opposite direction. Then receive one stress token.

# ? Jul 14, 2016 02:26

Strobe: Jun 30, 2014; GW BRAINWORMS CREW

So how much is the upgrade that lets you take actions before you move on X-wings and Y-wings? It's not zero.

Wouldn't be a terrible Astromech, but it's also not happening ever.

# ? Jul 14, 2016 02:28

Finster Dexter: Oct 20, 2014; Beyond is Finster's mad vision of Earth transformed.

Strobe posted:

So how much is the upgrade that lets you take actions before you move on X-wings and Y-wings? It's not zero.

Wouldn't be a terrible Astromech, but it's also not happening ever.

BB-8?

# ? Jul 14, 2016 02:31

Strobe: Jun 30, 2014; GW BRAINWORMS CREW

Doesn't have the action header. You'd have to have Experimental Interface (PTL won't work) in order to use that card on an X/Y/A-wing, and then you could only do it on one.

I worded it very deliberately. I did forget to specify that the 1 hard should also be white, admittedly.

# ? Jul 14, 2016 02:33

TaurusTorus: Mar 27, 2010; Grab the bullshit by the horns

If the z-95 is the wildcat, wouldn't that make the x-wing the hellcat?

edit: I always thought X-Wing is the Hellcat, Ties are Zeroes, Y-Wings are Sturmoviks what with the turret and indestructibility and Vader's tie is a ME262

TaurusTorus fucked around with this message at 03:21 on Jul 14, 2016

# ? Jul 14, 2016 03:19

Strobe: Jun 30, 2014; GW BRAINWORMS CREW

TaurusTorus posted:

If the z-95 is the wildcat, wouldn't that make the x-wing the hellcat?

edit: I always thought X-Wing is the Hellcat, Ties are Zeroes, Y-Wings are Sturmoviks what with the turret and indestructibility and Vader's tie is a ME262

The TIE Advanced is roughly on par with an X-wing. I'd say that the T-65 is a P-51A Mustang, T-70 is a P-51D Mustang (primary difference between the A and D was an engine upgrade :eng101:

), Y-wing is an SBD Dauntless, B-wing is the P-47 Thunderbolt, the TIE Advanced a FW-190, TIE Fighter a Zero, TIE Bomber an ME Bf 110, and the TIE Interceptor an ME Bf 109.

Come at me nerds. :colbert:

# ? Jul 14, 2016 04:24

TaurusTorus: Mar 27, 2010; Grab the bullshit by the horns

And the Millennium Falcon is some sort of heavy bomber, what with the ball turret gun scenes.

# ? Jul 14, 2016 04:33

Big Mean Jerk: Jan 27, 2009; Well, of course I know him.
He's me.

Why not P-38 for the B-Wing?

# ? Jul 14, 2016 04:35

Big Mean Jerk: Jan 27, 2009; Well, of course I know him.
He's me.

TaurusTorus posted:

And the Millennium Falcon is some sort of heavy bomber, what with the ball turret gun scenes.

The Falcon is definitely a B-25 or B-26. Or maybe a PBY.

# ? Jul 14, 2016 04:37

Strobe: Jun 30, 2014; GW BRAINWORMS CREW

Big Mean Jerk posted:

Why not P-38 for the B-Wing?

Because Thuds were notorious for taking obscene amounts of damage to shoot down and Lightnings might have been tough but didn't have a legendary reputation for it.

# ? Jul 14, 2016 04:44

TaurusTorus: Mar 27, 2010; Grab the bullshit by the horns

This reminds me, has anyone played Wings of Glory? My FLGS has it in stock, but I've never seen it played.

# ? Jul 14, 2016 04:45

Strobe: Jun 30, 2014; GW BRAINWORMS CREW

Big Mean Jerk posted:

The Falcon is definitely a B-25 or B-26. Or maybe a PBY.

My vote for PBY, because those things are cool. Outrider can be a B-25, because "Mitchell" is absolutely a douchbag name.

# ? Jul 14, 2016 04:46

Chill la Chill: Jul 2, 2007; Don't lose your gay

Interceptors are ME262s and defenders are the Me 329 :smug:

# ? Jul 14, 2016 04:54

TaurusTorus: Mar 27, 2010; Grab the bullshit by the horns

Also I want a rocketplane inspired space ship, one that has like 30 seconds of flying time but is obscenely fast. Break out the STAW maneuver templates.

# ? Jul 14, 2016 04:57

Improbable Lobster: Jan 6, 2012; "From each according to his ability" said Ares. It sounded like a quotation.; Buglord

Does the ARC170 really not have a generic? Also are there any other ships that don't have one? Even the Ghost has the Lothal Rebel and that generic probably makes the least amount of sense of any of them.

# ? Jul 14, 2016 05:07

TaurusTorus: Mar 27, 2010; Grab the bullshit by the horns

Improbable Lobster posted:

Does the ARC170 really not have a generic? Also are there any other ships that don't have one? Even the Ghost has the Lothal Rebel and that generic probably makes the least amount of sense of any of them.

Only the attack shuttle, and yeah, its weird.

# ? Jul 14, 2016 05:09

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# ? May 16, 2024 17:05

canyoneer: Sep 13, 2005; I only have canyoneyes for you

I suppose if you want to get cute you could say that the Aggressor doesn't have a generic either :v:

# ? Jul 14, 2016 05:40

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