|
Ratios and Tendency posted:Burke sends Newt's family off to investigate the ship without warning them about the aliens. Wouldn't the company not be liable because Burke most likely broke rules or what not. So only Burke did the illegal stuff and not the company, and if he wasn't murdered by an alien and everyone but Ripley wasn't killed because of Alien 3, I'm sure he would have faced some kind of trial.
|
#
?
Jul 13, 2016 13:31
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 16, 2024 16:53 |
|
|
oldpainless posted:Sigourney Weaver is kind of weird Alien is kind of weird. So it works.
|
|
#
?
Jul 13, 2016 14:17
|
|
|
Just let her have a go at it after Blomkamp. Market it as a direct sequel to his Aliens 2, and just go full weird.
|
|
#
?
Jul 13, 2016 15:30
|
|
|
Biomute posted:It's possible (correct me if I'm wrong) that Special Order 937 was a standing order such as the one requiring commercial crews to investigate signs of extra-terrestrial life, and thus the destruction of MOTHER and Ash ensured that Weyland-Yutani never learned of the xenomorphs. The most popular sequence of events suggest that WY knew of the xenomorphs before the events of Alien and placed Ash aboard the Nostromo knowing it would pass close by, but I think an alternative read would be the Nostromo passing LV-426 by coincidence and the whole WY plot being a pre-programmed sequence of events. It's sort of a mix of the two. The current "canon" sequence of events according to the Weyland Yutani Report is that there's a standing order that commercial crews are to investigate extraterrestrial points of interest, but Special Order 937 was a unique order (implied to have been put into place in the fallout from Prometheus). WY detected the signal from LV426 but didn't know exactly where it was coming from, determined it was worth investigating, and recognized that the Nostromo was departing Thedus (a shipping and mining hub) bound for Earth and would be passing somewhat close to the signal, so they put Special Order 937 in place and swapped Ash for the acting science officer, and casually altered the Nostromo's flight plan so it would stray close enough to the signal and the automated standing order functions would kick in. The Company knew there was something of interest there, but didn't know exactly what it was. Following the events of 'Alien', the beacon gets switched off (in the script and novelization Dallas physically turns it off, in Alien Isolation a separate group of explorers finds it and shuts it off), and from the perspective of WY, the Nostromo vanishes into thin air, the signal eventually stops, and it turns into a big mystery that no one in the company wants to really dig into for fear of exposing Special Order 937 so the whole thing gets quietly swept under the rug. Fast-forward about 40 years and they coincidentally set up a colony on LV426, not knowing there's a ticking time bomb right on the other side of the mountains bordering the colony.
|
|
#
?
Jul 13, 2016 16:30
|
|
|
Tenzarin posted:Wouldn't the company not be liable because Burke most likely broke rules or what not. So only Burke did the illegal stuff and not the company, and if he wasn't murdered by an alien and everyone but Ripley wasn't killed because of Alien 3, I'm sure he would have faced some kind of trial. Given no one knows what the laws are in the fictional future of Aliens, in modern America a company can't avoid liability under the law for the actions of an employee undertaken as part of their work for the company, even if the employee is breaking internal rules. Otherwise companies would just have a "employees are not allowed to take actions that incur liability for the company" rule and they'd always be free of liability. Burke would also face criminal liability as an individual.
|
|
#
?
Jul 13, 2016 18:41
|
|
|
Yo Xenomrph: does Weyland-Yutani have any competitors in the canon, or do they have a monopoly on everything and run the government? Ripley's debriefing seems to have a bunch of people from government agencies (ICC, Colonial Administration etc) and they all act indistinguishably from Weyland-Yutani representatives.
|
|
|
#
?
Jul 13, 2016 19:08
|
|
|
Clipperton posted:Yo Xenomrph: does Weyland-Yutani have any competitors in the canon, or do they have a monopoly on everything and run the government? Ripley's debriefing seems to have a bunch of people from government agencies (ICC, Colonial Administration etc) and they all act indistinguishably from Weyland-Yutani representatives. As for Ripley's debriefing, the scene doesn't make it as clear as the script does but Burke is the only WY rep there. Everyone else in the room is either a government agency rep (Interstellar Commerce Commission, Extrasolar Colonial Administration, etc) or an insurance investigator.
|
|
#
?
Jul 13, 2016 19:36
|
|
|
SuperMechagodzilla posted:People are saying the company is bad because it makes weapons, but that's a single offhand comment in a very lengthy film. What we spend the entire film actually watching is this impressive terraforming complex. That's what should be rejected: the violence of 'building better worlds' far surpasses anything the aliens could do. No other weapon is as strong. And, as usual, it's really all about you: alright, SMG, which species is worse - humans or xenomorphs? I'd appreciate a straight answer without qualifiers if you could. I could argue some more about the whole "this is Ripley's ideology" stuff but honestly I think it really is just kind of stupid to assume ideological motivations to people's actions in immediate high-stakes survival situations. She goes to the planet in hope of emotional catharsis and spends most of her time trying to remove direct threats to her survival and those she forms an emotional connection to. I'm sure that's probably inherently liberal in and of itself but what use is there of pointing that out other than to call attention to your leftist cred. If I happen to be in Dubai being preyed upon by a massive horde of killer sand monsters, and someone in my group keeps interrupting our plans to escape and destroy the predators because "look at the horrible violence and exploitation of these buildings, the ostentatious gluttony of the capitalist system is the REAL monster here don't you SEE?" The creatures could have him for all I care.
|
|
#
?
Jul 13, 2016 20:17
|
|
|
The xenomorph is the perfect organism, so of course they're better than us. They're perfect.
|
|
#
?
Jul 13, 2016 20:21
|
|
|
Also you don't see them loving each other over for a goddamn percentage.
|
|
#
?
Jul 13, 2016 20:34
|
|
|
Sir Kodiak posted:Given no one knows what the laws are in the fictional future of Aliens, in modern America a company can't avoid liability under the law for the actions of an employee undertaken as part of their work for the company, even if the employee is breaking internal rules. Otherwise companies would just have a "employees are not allowed to take actions that incur liability for the company" rule and they'd always be free of liability. Burke would also face criminal liability as an individual. To be clear though: this is some no-fault liability, which means that W-Y not legally culpable for anything that happened and are merely is open to various lawsuits. Given that they're an insanely profitable interplanetary megacorporation, W-Y can probably handle a lot of that stuff with out-of-court settlements. Settlements are quite far from the revolutionary justice that people are talking about. It's effectively the same as when that kid got killed by an alligator at Disneyland. We have a lot of dead alligators now, but it's certainly not the end for Disney. But more specifically, it's as I was saying earlier. Aliens is effectively the story of a labour dispute - with parallels to such as the Canadian Royal Oak Mines case of 1992. Unionized miners went on strike in protest of pay-cuts and poor safety, so the company - unwilling to halt production - brought in non-union workers backed by private security. Things escalated to violence, including a fatal bombing by one of the strikers. In the end, the bomber was charged with several counts of second-degree murder, but the mining company and the private security company were both successfully sued by the families of the dead (for keeping the mine running despite the danger, while not providing adequate security). And then, this decision was eventually overturned on appeal. lizardman posted:And, as usual, it's really all about you: alright, SMG, which species is worse - humans or xenomorphs? I'd appreciate a straight answer without qualifiers if you could. They are both worse. When you believe someone is acting 'apolitically', without ideology (because they are under stress or whatever), that its ideology at its purest. For example: you've just spontaneously declared an 'apolitical' war on 'sand SuperMechagodzilla fucked around with this message at 21:09 on Jul 13, 2016 |
|
#
?
Jul 13, 2016 20:56
|
|
|
Sure. The idea that Ripley could actually hold Weyland-Yutani accountable, or change how they operate, through official processes isn't seriously considered within the movie. Weyland-Yutani, as far as the movie is concerned, is the system (which is often how it works in the real world as well). I was just lawyer-sperging about how it's supposed to work as-written.
|
|
#
?
Jul 13, 2016 21:07
|
|
|
Basebf555 posted:The xenomorph is the perfect organism, so of course they're better than us. They're perfect. Crab walking perfecting. Sir Kodiak posted:Sure. The idea that Ripley could actually hold Weyland-Yutani accountable, or change how they operate, through official processes isn't seriously considered within the movie. Weyland-Yutani, as far as the movie is concerned, is the system (which is often how it works in the real world as well). I was just lawyer-sperging about how it's supposed to work as-written. This seems like a plausible plot for alien 5 but isn't the company long gone in alien 4? Also Ripley is a clone in alien 4 and she crashes a space ship into earth when she finally returns to earth. Tenzarin fucked around with this message at 21:11 on Jul 13, 2016 |
|
#
?
Jul 13, 2016 21:07
|
|
|
Tenzarin posted:Crab walking perfecting. It's odd you keep bringing this up considering it's not even in the movie. Ridley and co also realized it was bad and removed it.
|
|
#
?
Jul 13, 2016 21:10
|
|
|
Sir Kodiak posted:It's odd you keep bringing this up considering it's not even in the movie. Ridley and co also realized it was bad and removed it. When we have people bringing up script items that never appear in the movies and unfilmed sequences from other movies entirely, a deleted reel from Alien seems like a low bar to cross.
|
|
#
?
Jul 13, 2016 22:05
|
|
|
Aliens is the vietnam war, it's extremely clear and they've said as much. Any deep interpretation beyond that is jamming your own extremely subjective and probably borderline crazy interpretation into things.
|
|
#
?
Jul 13, 2016 22:07
|
|
|
Baronjutter posted:Aliens is the vietnam war, it's extremely clear and they've said as much. Any deep interpretation beyond that is jamming your own extremely subjective and probably borderline crazy interpretation into things. that's what some people do here.
|
|
#
?
Jul 13, 2016 22:12
|
|
|
OneThousandMonkeys posted:When we have people bringing up script items that never appear in the movies and unfilmed sequences from other movies entirely, a deleted reel from Alien seems like a low bar to cross. There's nothing wrong with bringing it up in theory, but the fact that Ridley filmed something that he immediately recognized as awful is a weird point to use as an attack on the guy.
|
|
#
?
Jul 13, 2016 22:14
|
|
|
Baronjutter posted:Aliens is the vietnam war, it's extremely clear and they've said as much. Any deep interpretation beyond that is jamming your own extremely subjective and probably borderline crazy interpretation into things. So in say, 70 years when Vietnam is barely a memory, Aliens will be irrelevant?
|
|
#
?
Jul 13, 2016 22:17
|
|
|
Please no, protect Ridley from the internet!
|
|
#
?
Jul 13, 2016 22:19
|
|
|
 Pee pee doo doo, Alien 3 is a bad movie
|
|
#
?
Jul 13, 2016 22:20
|
|
|
Tenzarin posted:Please no, protect Ridley from the internet! Yeah, that's definitely what I was doing. 
|
|
#
?
Jul 13, 2016 22:21
|
|
|
A movie doesn't have to be politically relevant to be fun or interesting.
|
|
#
?
Jul 13, 2016 22:31
|
|
OneThousandMonkeys posted:
 oh god I want a Xenodog so bad
|
|
|
#
?
Jul 13, 2016 22:36
|
|
|
My sister has that breed of dog as a pet, I've been trying to get her to dress it up as a Xenodog for Halloween for years now. 
|
|
#
?
Jul 13, 2016 22:50
|
|
|
BE LIKE ME.
|
|
#
?
Jul 13, 2016 22:53
|
|
|
Baronjutter posted:A movie doesn't have to be politically relevant to be fun or interesting. Check, Killer Clowns from Outer Space.
|
|
#
?
Jul 13, 2016 22:56
|
|
|
SuperMechagodzilla posted:They are both worse. Disingenuous bullshit, all of this. Do kindly kiss my rear end.
|
|
#
?
Jul 13, 2016 22:58
|
|
|
Baronjutter posted:Aliens is the vietnam war, it's extremely clear and they've said as much. Any deep interpretation beyond that is jamming your own extremely subjective and probably borderline crazy interpretation into things. The Vietnam War wasn't caused by the discovery of an alien spacecraft.
|
|
#
?
Jul 13, 2016 23:04
|
|
|
SuperMechagodzilla posted:The Vietnam War wasn't caused by the discovery of an alien spacecraft. Wow look at this guy and his mainstream sheeple history.
|
|
#
?
Jul 13, 2016 23:08
|
|
|
Timeless Appeal posted:Ripley directly references Mother when she says "You bitch." Oh man, the Aliens "you bitch!" line is understandably the famous one, but I think I like the one in Alien even better. Part of it is Weaver's delivery of "YOU! BITCH! AGH!", part of it is the fact that she's saying it to a computer named 'Mother', and another part is how she smashes a monitor just as she does it. So, like, everything about that moment.
|
|
#
?
Jul 13, 2016 23:22
|
|
|
Baronjutter posted:Aliens is the vietnam war, it's extremely clear and they've said as much. Any deep interpretation beyond that is jamming your own extremely subjective and probably borderline crazy interpretation into things.
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2016 03:34
|
|
|
The fact that everyone from Cameron on down repeatedly mentioned the Vietnam influence on the film means it's completely verboten in Cinema Discusso. Instead, here it must be "read" in terms of some kind of class war, and/or themes of capitalism vs socialism. I think this is in the main rules sticky for CineD.
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2016 03:42
|
|
|
MrMojok posted:The fact that everyone from Cameron on down repeatedly mentioned the Vietnam influence on the film means it's completely verboten in Cinema Discusso. In defense of talking about movies, a movie can be about more than one thing.
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2016 03:44
|
|
|
That's what I thought too.
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2016 03:48
|
|
|
MrMojok posted:That's what I thought too. So why are you agreeing with the guy that says "Anything the director doesn't say is a 'probably borderline crazy interpretation'"?
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2016 04:15
|
|
|
I'm pretty sure the Vietnam War itself had themes of class warfare and capitalism vs socialism.
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2016 04:18
|
|
|
Baronjutter posted:Wow look at this guy and his mainstream sheeple history. Right - so much for sane and objective. You are looking for the deeper intentions - literally what Cameron felt deep inside - while I am dealing with the textured surface of the film. Very simply: the film is about an industrial mining facility whose workers become monstrous after a surveying accident. Since body-snatching zombie aliens aren't actually real (James Cameron is not David Icke, trying to warn us about literal aliens) the film is objectively about a labor uprising. The only issue is that such an 'objective' approach misses Ripley's entire subjective experience. So the truth: striking workers appear to her as nightmare monsters from a dystopian alternate universe. Of course this is all applicable to various Cold War conflicts, but that applicability only goes one way. Otherwise you must conclude that the alien eggs represent the souls of the victims of anticommunist purges, and the living aliens are brave peasants fighting for land reform. SuperMechagodzilla fucked around with this message at 04:23 on Jul 14, 2016 |
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2016 04:20
|
|
|
I don't know which guy you mean, but I'm not agreeing with any of you, except for the one who just said movies can be about different things. What I said about the acknowledged Vietnam theme up above, I meant that anything like that is going to get shouted down by some people in CineD in favor of other interpretations, which are always the only correct ones in those particular posters' minds. And a lot of times it's no war but class war, and things of that nature. I certainly am not saying it's insane to look at a film outside of the director's statements/intent. Perfect example, what I get out of Aliens is nature/nurture, and motherhood. Not any of the things other people in here are talking about. Am I "wrong"? Are others "right"?
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2016 04:39
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 16, 2024 16:53 |
|
|
Class is kind of important to Alien, so not looking at its sequel in that light would be pretty weird. Calling it crazy to do so is pretty silly. Hodgepodge fucked around with this message at 04:44 on Jul 14, 2016 |
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2016 04:41
|
|