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Milky Moor posted:Isn't Foil's power literally make any object basically 'Kill Anything Regardless Of Defenses Or Protection'? It makes her bolts capable of penetrating anything regardless of defense/protection, but that's only situationally powerful and dependent upon the enemy being someone she can hit with her arbalest in the first place. It's also not useful against groups of enemies. Were you joking about Parian? Parian's stuff is capable of temporarily tanking strong opponents like Endbringers, but from what we've seen it doesn't seem like they'd be difficult for heroes/villains to contend with. Foil even mentions how she felt she could easily avoid Parian's creations if they attacked, and she doesn't even have the ability to fly or superhuman strength/speed.
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Jul 13, 2016 06:34
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Ytlaya posted:It makes her bolts capable of penetrating anything regardless of defense/protection, but that's only situationally powerful and dependent upon the enemy being someone she can hit with her arbalest in the first place. It's also not useful against groups of enemies. Foil's power isn't tied to her arbalest though, is it? She just imparts her power onto things she holds. Get her a rifle. I wish I was, for the second. Worm gets really dumb really quickly if you pay attention to the fandom around it.
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Jul 13, 2016 06:49
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Ytlaya posted:It makes her bolts capable of penetrating anything regardless of defense/protection, but that's only situationally powerful and dependent upon the enemy being someone she can hit with her arbalest in the first place. It's also not useful against groups of enemies. Ytlaya posted:Were you joking about Parian? Parian's stuff is capable of temporarily tanking strong opponents like Endbringers, but from what we've seen it doesn't seem like they'd be difficult for heroes/villains to contend with. Foil even mentions how she felt she could easily avoid Parian's creations if they attacked, and she doesn't even have the ability to fly or superhuman strength/speed. Wildbow has stated that with the right application of her power, she could go up against an Endbringer
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Jul 13, 2016 06:51
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The best useful thing we see Legend do is delay/hold/stalemate Siberian if memory serves. Which admittedly is pretty impressive on it's own. During the part with the can't-identify-people-any-more-virus he also casually takes out a whole building of capes (invisible, wall-penetrating stun-lasers), although we see that from a distance.
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Jul 13, 2016 07:54
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Doctor w-rw-rw- posted:Wildbow has stated that with the right application of her power, she could go up against an Endbringer Go up against, sure, but not do any actual non-superficial damage. Milky Moor posted:Foil's power isn't tied to her arbalest though, is it? She just imparts her power onto things she holds. Get her a rifle. No, I think she can apply that to anything she touches or something. So she could use a rifle as long as she was manually loading each bullet.
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Jul 13, 2016 07:56
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Yeah Parian could delay Behemoth, not actually defeat or stop him. Until, you know, Behemoth doesn't want to be delayed any more.
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Jul 13, 2016 08:13
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Ytlaya posted:
Maybe, Sy basically is conditioned to stab kindness in the face though, even to his detriment.
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Jul 13, 2016 09:10
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There are also cases where Sy doesn't get others' emotions at all like early on when the other kids to act out a farce to influence others and he's jealous of how much fun they're having and then afterwards they say how they hated it. Doesn't mean he's not good at manipulating people but my impressions from what I've read so far is that his subconscious instincts of how people will react, which are extremely good, exceed his intellectual understanding of why they'll act in a certain way. I haven't caught up in a while though so my understanding may be out of date.
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Jul 13, 2016 11:44
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At some point in chapter 10ish the others realize that Sy can't (or didn't realise) distinguish between 'respect' and 'sexual attraction'.
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Jul 13, 2016 13:05
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Ytlaya posted:No, I think she can apply that to anything she touches or something. So she could use a rifle as long as she was manually loading each bullet. Foil's power is really odd, but the details we know would generally preclude it working with a rifle, unless it was something more like a tranquilizer rifle. Her power is less effective on things that aren't edges or points, and she has to leave part of whatever she charges unaffected, or she won't be able to fire it. She charges the heads on the bolts, but not the bolts themselves, charges the edge/point of the sword but not the hilt. Charging the bullet, though, would result in the bullet ignoring the explosion that would propel it, as best we can tell. With a tranq rifle, or perhaps with a specially made bullet, she could charge just the tip/needle and it might work.
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Jul 13, 2016 13:41
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NinjaDebugger posted:Foil's power is really odd, but the details we know would generally preclude it working with a rifle, unless it was something more like a tranquilizer rifle. Ah yeah, forgot about those two aspects of her power. I guess it wouldn't be too hard for some tinker to make a gun that fires bullets with an edge, but it would be kind of pointless since they would only penetrate slightly deeper than regular bullets (since she would probably only be able to charge like 1cm of the bullet). The crossbow actually does seem like the best long-range weapon for her.
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Jul 13, 2016 17:31
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Namarrgon posted:At some point in chapter 10ish the others realize that Sy can't (or didn't realise) distinguish between 'respect' and 'sexual attraction'. I don't buy that. If that was true he probably would have reacted different to Jamie 1. He's just sexually stunted from drugs and better at reading other people than he is reading himself. Also what grognan said. I don't think he's really capable of having an honest, simple relationship with someone, which is what Mary seemed to want. Even his thing with Lillian, while heartfelt, was still a lot of him manipulating and toying with her.
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Jul 13, 2016 22:03
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Ugh, I knew that the "Chekhov's conflict" of the Mary/Percy stuff was going to end up becoming an issue at some point. Right now they're pursuing Percy. While logically it seems like Mary has nothing but Percy's word against the Lambs' to persuade her that he actually cared for her (and she's probably used to the idea of him trying to emotionally manipulate her), I'm pretty sure that Sy's emotional blind-spot when it comes to Mary will prevent him from really selling any attempt to reassert the lie. If I had to guess, I'd assume that Mary won't end up going back to Percy, but I'm expecting there to be a lot of drama between now and then.
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Jul 14, 2016 01:34
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Hey Ytlaya, you have an anime avatar, do you read the stuff from the japan webfiction thread? I never tried it and I'm wondering how it compares to Wildbow's stuff.
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Jul 14, 2016 02:09
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Keep doing your sum-ups as you go along, it's interesting! I really ought to go back and read it again from the start, reading it as it comes up means it gets dragged out over a long time and details get forgotten... The way the Percy stuff was resolved was interesting, it felt like it could have gone a lot of different ways, but the way it went was good. Do wonder how much Mary is repressing her emotions and how that's going to play out. Nettle Soup fucked around with this message at 02:25 on Jul 14, 2016 |
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Jul 14, 2016 02:22
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Pavlov posted:Hey Ytlaya, you have an anime avatar, do you read the stuff from the japan webfiction thread? I never tried it and I'm wondering how it compares to Wildbow's stuff. To be honest, it doesn't compare very well. There are a handful of web novels/light novels that are good, but even then the translation is often less than stellar. Here are the ones I've enjoyed: Rokka no Yuusha (https://rokkathetranslation.wordpress.com/) - Probably the closest to Wildbow stuff, particularly in terms of having a bunch of really tense situations and pretty well written fight scenes, and the translation is one of the few that is actually pretty decent. Has an interesting, unique fantasy setting that isn't based on Tolkien. Probably the best LN/WN I've read. Hai to Sensou no Grimgar (https://grimgarthetranslation.wordpress.com/) - People randomly appear in stereotypical fantasy setting with no memories, but the execution is very good and "realistic." For example, even as the protagonist's party becomes more skilled, nothing ever really becomes "easy" and it constantly reiterates how literally anything can kill you if you let your guard down. Also one of the few titles with a solid translation. Ascendance of a Bookworm (http://www.novelupdates.com/series/ascendance-of-a-bookworm/) - Good translation by the goon blastron and a much better premise than most other reincarnation stuff (and there are a million). In this one a woman is reincarnated as a girl in a very poor family in a surprisingly realistic medieval-ish setting. She likes books and wants to make/read books in this new world where only the nobility can afford them. To be honest, these are the only ones I've read that I can recommend in good conscience. The vast majority of Asian (there are also a bunch of Chinese ones) web novels are completely terrible wish fulfillment dreck. I consider myself someone with a somewhat high tolerance for dumb anime poo poo and even I can't deal with how bad most of those titles are. For example, one of the most popular web novels around has the protagonist buy a slave, who then becomes the love interest because the protagonist is the only person to ever be nice to her (and even decides she wants to stay a slave after he decides to release her). The website "novelupdates" is a good source for information on various Japanese/Asian web novels, though you absolutely cannot trust their rankings. Just about every single high ranked title is terrible. edit: "Dog had positioned himself so his body was between the small children Gordon had rescued and the worst of the gore and death." - Dog is a kind soul 
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Jul 14, 2016 03:24
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Yeah I kind of assumed. Actually I know Rokka because it has an anime. When it came out someone spoiled the later plot twists and they were really, hilariously bad. The bookworm one sounds interesting though. But what's the point of having of having the protag be reincarnated or whatever? I didn't think people were supposed to remember reincarnations. Wouldn't that be irrelevant?
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Jul 14, 2016 03:45
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Pavlov posted:Yeah I kind of assumed. Actually I know Rokka because it has an anime. When it came out someone spoiled the later plot twists and they were really, hilariously bad. The Rokka LN is far better. The anime only covers the first book of over 5 now, and it doesn't really get into the main plot until after the first volume. I can't imagine how unsatisfying the anime's ending must have been, given that they don't even start travelling though that "country" with all the kyouma
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Jul 14, 2016 03:54
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It was LN spoilers I mean. The show was a pretty well done locked room mystery, but burnt pretty much all its goodwill at once with people at the conclusion when the girl in the cow outfit appeared to reset the status quo. I'm really more interested in this reincarnation thing though. Does it actually serve a narrative purpose or is it just like, a framing device?
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Jul 14, 2016 04:04
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Pavlov posted:It was LN spoilers I mean. The show was a pretty well done locked room mystery, but burnt pretty much all its goodwill at once with people at the conclusion when the girl in the cow outfit appeared to reset the status quo. It is there mostly to serve as a wish fulfillment device. People like the idea of being reborn as totally awesome and powerful in a fantasy world. There are some reincarnation things that aren't wish fulfillment (like Ascendance of a Bookworm), but the vast majority are. edit: So I just got to the point where (Twig 6.9)Jamie revealed he has feelings for Sy. So sad, even if it is a bit silly that literally every human Lamb except Gordon is interested in Sy. Ytlaya fucked around with this message at 04:20 on Jul 14, 2016 |
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Jul 14, 2016 04:18
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I was referred to some good online web fiction lately that isn't Worm, The Last Angel, or Mother of Learning. A Practical Guide to Evil: https://practicalguidetoevil.wordpress.com/ Pretty good read, check it out.
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Jul 14, 2016 04:27
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Why was Mary in bed with Sy at the begnining of 7.1? Rick asks if Sy and Mary are an item, Gordon drags him outside, and then Lillian gestures "lie?" and Sy nods. I'm assuming that meant her asking whether him and Mary being together was a lie (because there wasn't much of a reaction from Lillian), but it could also be interpreted as her asking him if he was lying about not being with Mary. Edit: Also, I'm kinda surprised that Gordon is still alive after the 9 month timeskip. They made it seem like he was just about expired with the heart issues and then suddenly 9 months have passed and he's seemingly doing more or less okay. Ytlaya fucked around with this message at 09:27 on Jul 14, 2016 |
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Jul 14, 2016 07:27
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Ytlaya posted:Ah yeah, forgot about those two aspects of her power. I guess it wouldn't be too hard for some tinker to make a gun that fires bullets with an edge, but it would be kind of pointless since they would only penetrate slightly deeper than regular bullets (since she would probably only be able to charge like 1cm of the bullet). The crossbow actually does seem like the best long-range weapon for her. Sabot rounds would have made sense.
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Jul 14, 2016 22:51
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These kids do a lot of hand squeezing in Twig. I'd be curious to find out the average number of hand squeezes per chapter. I bet it's like 3 or 4. Hm, chapter 7.5 says the Brechwell Beast is 3.5 stories tall at the shoulder, but the banner image that I'm pretty sure is of the Brechwell Beast (with Gordon giving it an apple?) is most definitely not 3.5 stories tall. Maybe the Brechwell Beast has a small child that shows up later. Ytlaya fucked around with this message at 19:42 on Jul 15, 2016 |
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Jul 14, 2016 23:45
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I always thought that banner was Dog?
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Jul 15, 2016 23:20
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thespaceinvader posted:I always thought that banner was Dog? Dog has a bunch of metal parts, including his low jaw, and I don't recall him having horns and tusks. The Brechwell beast, on the other hand, was described having horns and tusks just like in that picture (among other aspects of the description fitting). edit: Also Gordon has Hubris with him, who first shows up in the chapter with the Brechwell beast Ytlaya fucked around with this message at 22:19 on Jul 16, 2016 |
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Jul 16, 2016 22:17
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It might be something that comes later, going off roughly when that banner went up.
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Jul 16, 2016 22:53
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I feel like (chapter 7.11)Lillian is inevitably going to end up opposite at least some of the Lambs (definitely including Sy), and it makes me sad. Her relationship with Sy was always the only potentially viable one for Sy to have, since Mary has a bunch of baggage and reasons for seeking a relationship with Sy that aren't healthy, but the ideal "end game" each has in mind are too different. I'm not quite sure who I agree with. Sy's #1 priority is to act in the interest of the Lambs. While I'm sure he would be willing to do some terrible stuff in order to accomplish this, I'm not so sure that helping/allowing Fray to disseminate Academy knowledge is one of those things. While Lillian is correct about there being terrible consequences to spreading such knowledge, I feel like (as Sy mentioned) her perspective has been colored to a large extent by Academy propaganda. While the Academy maintains some semblance of order, we already know for a fact that their end game involves a bunch of absolutely reprehensible stuff (like the sterilization and tethering that Fray simply sped up). While the rebellion's end game might end up just as bad, it seems like a much better idea to go with the option that at least has a possibility of not being a dystopian hell-scape. I'm sure her ambition to become a professor also plays a big part, though I'm not sure whether that alone is enough to outweigh her loyalty to the Lambs. On the bright side I'm actually getting the impression that Mary would choose the Lambs even if she learns of Sy's lie regarding Percy's letter. edit: I just got to the part where Sy tells Mary about the lie. That was dealt with very well. I'm so used to stories taking advantage of any opportunity to create conflict and drama, and it was nice to see someone act in a pretty realistic way. Ytlaya fucked around with this message at 08:21 on Jul 17, 2016 |
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Jul 17, 2016 06:22
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Man, this stuff with new-Jamie is really sad. He seems like a good guy, but Sy just can't emotionally deal with him looking the same as his late best friend. In general, the relationships between the main characters in Twig are so very well done. Knowing that there's probably not going to be any happy ending just makes everything even more bittersweet.
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Jul 18, 2016 03:09
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What you start to learn about Sy is that while he spends a lot of time trying to keep the group stable, he's really the most emotional unstable one in the group. People tend to feel like they're being level headed even when they're at their worst. Sy starts to really exemplify this trait, and as our viewpoint, I think he tends to sweep us along with him. It's interesting because this isn't something you tend to see in protagonists a lot. I think Catcher in the Rye is the only major example I can think of. At this point it's almost a trademark for Wildbow though.
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Jul 18, 2016 03:29
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Pavlov posted:What you start to learn about Sy is that while he spends a lot of time trying to keep the group stable, he's really the most emotional unstable one in the group. People tend to feel like they're being level headed even when they're at their worst. Sy starts to really exemplify this trait, and as our viewpoint, I think he tends to sweep us along with him. Shame me for having read trash fantasy literature when young if you must, but Rand in Wheel of Time was like that, too. A lot of people would defend him as being not nuts because the reader could follow his self justifications. As you say it was like that in Worm and Pact, too. It was annoying in Worm though because it felt like Taylor was very rarely called on her bullshit in a way that had any consequences. While Miss Militia or Clockblocker might have told her how she was acting she'd still inevitably get her way and in the result be justified.
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Jul 18, 2016 07:03
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Neurosis posted:As you say it was like that in Worm and Pact, too. It was annoying in Worm though because it felt like Taylor was very rarely called on her bullshit in a way that had any consequences. While Miss Militia or Clockblocker might have told her how she was acting she'd still inevitably get her way and in the result be justified. I don't really understand this reading of Taylor. What bullshit? Taylor struggles to do the right thing for literally the entire story. I feel like the point is that doing the right thing is actually a very difficult and complicated task. Especially when you have power. The ends do tend to justify Taylor's means, but I was never annoyed by it and I felt Taylor was a moral hero straight through to the end because she never falls into self righteousness. She never stops questioning if she should be doing these things or if maybe there is a better way. This stands in direct contrast to Cauldron. Dr. Mother has no doubts or regrets up to the very end. Unlike Taylor, Dr. Mother would not have changed anything if given a chance.
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Jul 18, 2016 08:35
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Wittgen posted:I don't really understand this reading of Taylor. What bullshit? Taylor is self-righteous as gently caress and it's the most annoying part of the story that she is always right. The only character who even gets to have the moral high ground on her is maybe Miss Militia. Taylor never struggles to do the right thing. She merely does the less bad thing and acts like she's the best possible course. Is Armsmaster bad? Yes. Is taking over the city as a supervillain a better alternative? Not really. And given the construction of the setting - that Cauldron is literally doing what they need to do with no possible alternative because it is statistically the best probable outcome - criticizing Doctor Mother is pretty weak. But that's one of my problems with Worm, Tattletale and Contessa.
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Jul 18, 2016 09:53
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Milky Moor posted:And given the construction of the setting - that Cauldron is literally doing what they need to do with no possible alternative because it is statistically the best probable outcome - criticizing Doctor Mother is pretty weak. But that's one of my problems with Worm, Tattletale and Contessa. It's not the case that Cauldron had no other alternatives. They were taking the optimal path to their decided upon goals, but those goals could have been different. With hindsight, they could have chosen better goals, but Dr. Mother has no second thoughts about the course she chose. To me, that utter certainty that their goals justified all the heinous poo poo they did is the definition of self-righteousness. Taylor on the other hand is constantly doubting herself and struggling with what exactly she should do. Taylor's actions were just as necessary for the ending as Cauldron's. The difference is that she would have tried to do better if she had the chance.
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Jul 18, 2016 10:34
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Ytlaya posted:Man, this stuff with new-Jamie is really sad. He seems like a good guy, but Sy just can't emotionally deal with him looking the same as his late best friend. In general, the relationships between the main characters in Twig are so very well done. Knowing that there's probably not going to be any happy ending just makes everything even more bittersweet. The (1.2 spoilers) expiration dates make it pretty much inevitable that it's going to be a bittersweet ending at best. Sy mentions a few times that his death is going to be wracked with pain and loss of bodily functions as the wyvern erodes his brain, Gordon's a steadily failing patchwork of parts, Jamie's got the risk of total mindwipes or some other fate as his brain can't handle the accumulation of memories, Mary's not going to make it out of her teens before being riddled with cancerous growths and/or organ failure IIRC, Helen's reliant on Ibott keeping her going but Sy still expected to outlive her, though Ashton's an unknown. Twig good, far and away the most I've enjoyed any of Wildbow's stories.
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Jul 18, 2016 11:29
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Gitro posted:The (1.2 spoilers) expiration dates make it pretty much inevitable that it's going to be a bittersweet ending at best. Sy mentions a few times that his death is going to be wracked with pain and loss of bodily functions as the wyvern erodes his brain, Gordon's a steadily failing patchwork of parts, Jamie's got the risk of total mindwipes or some other fate as his brain can't handle the accumulation of memories, Mary's not going to make it out of her teens before being riddled with cancerous growths and/or organ failure IIRC, Helen's reliant on Ibott keeping her going but Sy still expected to outlive her, though Ashton's an unknown. Honestly, I don't totally understand why Sy has an expiration date. Fray is an adult who also uses the Wyvern formula, and it seems like you can stop using it at any time and just go back to normal. It would be one thing if they were still increasing his dose to "stress test" the formula, but I'm pretty sure Sy mentioned them stabilizing it some time back. Actually, one minor plot hole of sorts is the fact that so few people use Wyvern. Given how extremely powerful people under the effect of Wyvern can be (Sy and to an even greater extent Fray), it's surprising that the Academy doesn't give it to more people. They already know what dose people can handle. I guess it could be interpreted as risk aversion (due to the situation with Fray), but if that was the case it seems like they'd stop giving it to Sy. Milky Moor posted:Taylor is self-righteous as gently caress and it's the most annoying part of the story that she is always right. The only character who even gets to have the moral high ground on her is maybe Miss Militia. I always considered Taylor's rationale as similar to the people who argue that a benevolent dictator is superior to a democracy. Like, it's potentially true in the short-term, but overall it's a bad idea and very short-sighted. The same goes for Taylor's "let's forcibly seize power to make things better" approach. The only reason she's able to accomplish anything in the first place and get a support base is because she's using Coil's money (which is basically money earned through the equivalent of insider trading, due to Coil's power). She reasons it away as "well the heroes clearly can't care for people, so it's up to the villains", but the kind of obvious answer to that is "well, then help the heroes." Which is why I was so happy when she did end up defecting (and subsequently disappointed when she ultimately decided to stop being a hero for reasons I couldn't quite parse).
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Jul 18, 2016 18:33
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With regards to Wyvern: Sy is affraid to go off Wyvern. He's been on it so long and so heavily that he doesn't recognize himself without it. He's essentially an addict. Also the academy wouldn't choose to take him off it because how would that benefit them? It's eventually shown that other academy doctors do use Wyvern in safer doses, but it seems to be handled like a controlled substance, with the formula being on a need-to-know basis. If I was to wager a guess, I'd say the academy does this for the same reason professional sports ban doping. Wyvern is dangerous and unhealthy. If its use becomes commonplace in the academy, then new doctors would be all but required to use it, due to how cutthroat and competitive that field is. Then the doses start getting bigger, the side effects worse. I think the academy might be scared what would happen if they go down that path. That's why they canned Frey. She was using larger doses already, starting them down that slippery slope.
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Jul 18, 2016 19:36
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Ytlaya posted:Which is why I was so happy when she did end up defecting (and subsequently disappointed when she ultimately decided to stop being a hero for reasons I couldn't quite parse). Yeah, I just read the whole series and this probably bugged me more than anything else. It's easy to see where her original villainy came from: she associated it with acceptance and friends. However, that kind of goes out the window at the end when she goes back, despite having spent more time with the heroes than villains by that time. I did however love the contrast between her moment at Regent's grave (wondering how she accepted his body domination power) and her eventual plan to do exactly that on a much larger scale in the climax.
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Jul 18, 2016 20:06
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mastajake posted:Yeah, I just read the whole series and this probably bugged me more than anything else. It's easy to see where her original villainy came from: she associated it with acceptance and friends. However, that kind of goes out the window at the end when she goes back, despite having spent more time with the heroes than villains by that time. Made perfect sense to me. I don't get the feeling she ever gelled that well with the heroes, and the Undersiders were still the first real friends she made. Also better friends than the Wards. I mean, she's still a drat teenager at that point.
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Jul 18, 2016 21:07
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Namarrgon posted:Made perfect sense to me. I don't get the feeling she ever gelled that well with the heroes, and the Undersiders were still the first real friends she made. Also better friends than the Wards. I mean, she's still a drat teenager at that point. It's not really clear why she got along with the Undersiders so much better, though. Tattletale (and maybe Bitch) I can understand, but the others not so much (she was never close with Regent and things became very awkward with Grue). It's also not clear why the Undersiders need to continue being villains post-Coil (if you can even call them that; I don't know if they actually did anything outright villainous post-Coil). Seems like it would make more sense, if they absolutely can't deal with being heroes, to be government sanctioned rogues or something. edit: In chapter 8.7 of Twig, and Sy is really loving poo poo up. It's a simple mission to retrieve some family's daughter and he's about to get everyone killed. Way to go, bro. Ytlaya fucked around with this message at 22:06 on Jul 18, 2016 |
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Jul 18, 2016 21:34
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