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Shouting isn't that bad unless you're a stabber, and if you're a stabber you should have some hexes anyway to mitigate the disastrousness. Which branch is easier depends entirely on your gear. If you have reflection and okay MR Shoals isn't the worst. Snake can be painful if you're fragile; a lot of stuff there hits really hard, naga tend to have polearms and sharpshooters use portal projectile. Bring rPois and probably rElec, and keep an eye out for guardian serpents' summon allies encircling and uh, whichever dudes use teleport other. Both suck.
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Jul 16, 2016 09:19
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I've got a source of rElec if I swap out my Crystal Plate for one of the armors Oka gifted, and rPois from a ring. No MR Boost or refelction, so I suppose Snake it is. But tomorrow, after I've had some sleep. Also, nice to know when you hit the bottom floor it warns you as you descend that you can't Shaft to escape. And there's a Labrynth too. Think I'll do that before Snake or Shoals either one.
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Jul 16, 2016 09:23
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You really need rElec for snake. If you don't, shock serpents will kill you.
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Jul 16, 2016 09:28
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If you've trained any Evo, shock serpents are a good candidate for hex wands.
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Jul 16, 2016 13:13
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I random rolled a DDEE so of course I worshipped Makhleb and man, I miss Vehumet. I have 55 max mana and an amulet of mana regeneration but I'm still having to spend a ton of time waiting around for mana regen, and I've cleared shoals but still can't cast shatter at <10% despite DD's +3 earth apt. There are huge gulfs between caster with Vehumet, caster with the other caster gods, and caster with unrelated gods. Sometimes I actually have to swing my sword at enemies, it's disgusting. SirSamVimes posted:You really need rElec for snake. If you don't, shock serpents will kill you. If you're a squishy race who depends on their evasion to not get wrecked they will slaughter you with their spark damage, but if you're someone with decent health and a big weapon, and treat them with respect, they aren't that bad. Salamanders can be surprisingly hard hitting if you don't have any rF. In fact everything except the regular green naga are jerks. e: The regular green naga are also jerks because they can constrict you mid stair climb. The only reason Shoals can compete with Snake is because the terrain is so awful. Darox fucked around with this message at 16:07 on Jul 16, 2016 |
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Jul 16, 2016 13:57
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Shock serpents are jerks, but spark wasps are total assholes in line with thorn hunters.
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Jul 16, 2016 16:20
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FR: Spark hunters
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Jul 16, 2016 16:34
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Fitzy Fitz posted:Shock serpents are jerks, but spark wasps are total assholes in line with thorn hunters. That's completely true, but at least spark wasps can be shut down with meph clouds or any strong magic that ignores EV. Fireball and ozo's refrigeration destroy them. Thorn hunters are durable even if you can hit them with fire magic. I like the thorn hunters, though. They're pant's-shittingly terrifying, but in a good way. I think swamp is the only lair branch I actually like. Shoals is full of "gameplay depth" that makes me want to shoot myself, spider is one-dimensional, and snake is full of over-tuned enemies that either have far too much HP (naga warriors), do far too much damage (shock serpents) or both (naga sharpshooters), but all have some kind of gimmicky weakness that means you're safe as long as you spend half your time there resting or retreating. ---- I just finished a sif muna "hybrid" character (super squishy DEWz with a longbow). The character was a lot of fun and extremely strong by the end of the game. A longbow, dragon's call, malign gateway and a crystal spear slinging servitor made short work of everything. I even managed controlled blink for escape. The new channeling seems like a big improvement, but I didn't use it very much because of piety issues (more on that later). I never used divine energy, even though I probably should have, but early on MP wasn't a big issue and later on everything died before I ran out of MP. To be honest, I barely noticed the difference in piety gain mechanics. Every time I switched from training casting skills, I started to lose piety. I had a very slow gain when I was training 50% casting/50% other and I had decently quick gains while training magic fully. Sif piety decays too quickly now, so that the change to piety gain on kills is barely noticeable. I didn't reach 6 stars of piety until well into vaults after clearing elf. I quickly dropped down to 5 again and didn't get back up to 6 until Zot. That would have been different if I had found more than one scroll of amnesia before depths, but the rate of piety gain still seems pretty slow unless you're devoting yourself only to casting. I never used channeling because I didn't have the invo until after my first rune and I didn't want to burn the piety anyway. I don't think there needs to be a big change, but I think Sif would feel a little better if piety decay were somewhat slower. Obviously, my character was fine. I got a lot of use out of book gifts, miscast protection and amnesia. By the time I reached Zot, my piety finally stabilized at 6 stars and I could use channeling (though I didn't, because I didn't need to). But the game still makes the player feel bad for training skills in The Wrong Way while worshiping Sif and that is contrary to the original point of the changes. As an aside, I trained this character to use poison magic, even without starting as a venom mage, which is against any shred of wisdom I possess. The design of poison magic is so weird in this game. It's very powerful, but still manages to be useless. The game spitefully hosed me over for my decision by giving me swamp and snake, then giving me the crystal guardian vault in Elf: 3. In spite of that, I got a good amount of use out of poison spells in vaults and even depths, though never enough to make the investment feel worthwhile compared to other schools. Yes, OTR and ignite poison is really badass. With a few shots from the bow to supplement, those two spells even made short work of orb guardians, though by that point I had much faster and safer ways of dealing with them. I even had Parrow and used it extensively, even against rPois enemies. But if I had just learned iron shot or OoD and servitor from the beginning, I think the game would have been much easier. Edit: By the way, I didn't go crazy with training defenses. This was one of the squishiest casters I've ever played. Unfortunately, the country where I live is loving up its internet more each year, so webtiles is almost unplayable most of the time now, or I'd link the morgue. I had around 13 fighting, 15 dodging before hitting Zot 5 and running out of things to train. Heithinn Grasida fucked around with this message at 18:46 on Jul 16, 2016 |
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Jul 16, 2016 17:57
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I ended up clearing Orc first for the shops. there was an amulet of reflection in there I swapped for my amulet of harm, so I'm trying to clear out at least a bit of shoals. Snake scares me because even on big beefy characters I tend to get wrecked when I go in there, so I'm going to at least dip the first couple levels of shoals for xp and loot. [EDIT]annnnd murdered by a water nymph. gently caress. Zaodai fucked around with this message at 18:07 on Jul 16, 2016 |
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Jul 16, 2016 18:03
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SirSamVimes posted:You really need rElec for snake. If you don't, shock serpents will kill you. I've never been killed by a shock serpent, even though I feel like I definitely should have and I know it will happen eventually. You need a plan for them, but that plan doesn't have to include rElec. Evo investment, a strong ranged attack, hexes or meph cloud are all hard counters. The issue is that preparing for them depends on some luck, especially if you have to choose between snake and shoals.
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Jul 16, 2016 18:06
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"Getting any hex wand" is something that will happen basically any game. Also, rElec is a rare resist that you often simply will not find by snake, so relying on it to get by there is not really a great idea! The only times I have been killed by a shock serpent is when I was mindlessly tabbing or engaging in a stupid way. Like anywhere else in the game(besides arguably Z5 and maybe a couple of places in extended), the resist is fine, but not required.
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Jul 16, 2016 18:19
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Just ascended a TrMo^Chei to get my 3rd win. High five to the guy on the last page that did the same combo!code:
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Jul 16, 2016 18:50
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Just getting back into this game and I really should've 15 runed this guy  Apparently when I wasn't playing I forgot that the V:5 ambush is really dangerous even when you have firestorm... code:
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Jul 16, 2016 22:19
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You should usually clear both lair branches. Also, clearing depths before vaults:5 is a good idea as its a lot safer with smart play and gives loads of exp. I'm sure someone is gonna have a lot of "fun" with that firestorm ghost.
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Jul 16, 2016 23:09
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Also it's pretty hard to stand in the centre of vaults 5 and take everything that comes at you as a caster. You can do it if you have shatter or tornado/chain lightning, but otherwise you'll just get surrounded. Teleporting and clearing the outsides is usually safer if you're not stairdancing. e: Basically the idea is to avoid this code:Darox fucked around with this message at 23:31 on Jul 16, 2016 |
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Jul 16, 2016 23:25
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Yeah I mean I know most of that stuff, I've 15 runed before, I just play like an idiot a lot of the time. Next time I've got a good run going I'll probably ask for spectators because even if they're not telling me to not do dumb poo poo I'm still less likely to out of embarrassment...
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Jul 17, 2016 00:22
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And paying attention to spectators means you play slower, which means you're probably playing more attentively overall. 
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Jul 17, 2016 00:52
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It's funny that mortification is a stronger impetus than just wanting to play well.
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Jul 17, 2016 03:36
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Haifisch posted:And paying attention to spectators means you play slower, which means you're probably playing more attentively overall. It has the opposite effect on me; I try to see how close to the death line I can skate to get chat to freak out because it's funny.
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Jul 17, 2016 05:12
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Floodkiller posted:It has the opposite effect on me; I try to see how close to the death line I can skate to get chat to freak out because it's funny. I'm lucky that my first online win is actually a win because having spectators prompted me to full-clear a zig for the first time, as a vampire assassin. The effect of spectators is a blessing and a curse.
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Jul 17, 2016 05:41
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I assure you that if I spectate you any advice I give us 100% legit, however I'm terrible at crawl so it might not actually be good advice
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Jul 17, 2016 07:23
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Internet Kraken posted:I've never seen an ice cave with more than one ice fiend. Ice caves only show up in the early and the mid dungeon. The ones in the middle usually have an ice fiend as the loot boss. It would be totally inappropriate for a midgame loot portal to have multiple fiends in it. Ha, my mistake, it looks like they were the old sprite for ice devils. I believe I have discovered why they changed it!
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Jul 17, 2016 07:33
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So, this happened in 0.17.code:So I stop on a shallow water space and hit 5: code: So I go look at recent commits: code:edit: forgot to mention I still have butt language on. That might be confusing. Didn't know it even says "butt" in the logs. One time, found a D2 +5 dagger of elec, got "this is a scroll of butt weapon". Hell yeah, enchant that dagger! But it wasn't ENCHANT weapon. It was BRAND weapon. Araganzar fucked around with this message at 15:51 on Jul 17, 2016 |
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Jul 17, 2016 15:47
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I don't know what version had the change but shallow water never turns into deep water anymore. It's just dry to shallow and back.
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Jul 17, 2016 15:52
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Ouch. A related situation to watch out for is having temporary regeneration (such as the spell) interfering with the poison counter, so you can press 5 and die as the game thinks you aren't lethally poisoned.
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Jul 17, 2016 15:57
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Dang, that's even worse as it's more likely to come up. At least you can hit 5 now instead of getting gobsmacked by an ogre hitting s to wait out the poison...
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Jul 17, 2016 16:25
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resistentialism posted:I don't know what version had the change but shallow water never turns into deep water anymore. It's just dry to shallow and back. That was 0.16. It doesn't matter, though. I checked the tv; the water was already deep before arag flew onto it & hit 5.
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Jul 17, 2016 17:02
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It looks like ogre mages can't abyss anymore. That's interesting.
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Jul 17, 2016 19:52
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PleasingFungus posted:That was 0.16. It doesn't matter, though. I checked the tv; the water was already deep before arag flew onto it & hit 5. I think I figured it out after watching - that was the one unexplored square in the area and I'd used mapping so it looks like light water. I checked i_feel_safe and it doesn't check for if you are flying over unlandable terrain. It checks to see if you're in a damaging cloud, are in a shrinking Sanctuary, are lethally poisoned, or can see monsters nearby. I guess I always thought it wouldn't let you 5 over lava or deep water with flight running out, since that's a guaranteed game over. I guess now you get drained, good change. Oh well, learn something new about the game all the time, today in Zot 5 I found out you can't step on a permanent tport trap and then take off -Tele to escape.
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Jul 17, 2016 21:03
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Floodkiller posted:It has the opposite effect on me; I try to see how close to the death line I can skate to get chat to freak out because it's funny.
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Jul 17, 2016 21:09
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Araganzar posted:
Sounds like your adventurer was eating too many meat rations and not getting enough exercise.
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Jul 17, 2016 21:48
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Had a MuSu with Monstrous Menagerie online, who was absolutely walking through everything and demolishing every opponent. Just got through lair, was trying to venture into orc and this is how it ended:code:Also, mummies are miserable.
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Jul 17, 2016 22:04
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I haven't played in ages, but I see CSZO is dead. Grabbed my rcfile off it, but what happened? Lots of juicy changes since March...
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Jul 17, 2016 22:16
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pathetic little tramp posted:Had a MuSu with Monstrous Menagerie online, who was absolutely walking through everything and demolishing every opponent. Just got through lair, was trying to venture into orc and this is how it ended: Canine familiars can see invisible at least.
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Jul 17, 2016 22:25
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Fitzy Fitz posted:Canine familiars can see invisible at least. drat, I did not know that. The one spell I passed over because I figured ice beast + animate remains + monstrous was a pretty good combo and it takes forever to gain spell levels as a Mu. I would say the next time I do it, it really doesn't pay to branch out spellcasting pre-S branches as a mummy. I found a necro book and figured I might as well make zombies out of all the corpses I was leaving all over the place, but the zombies were outclassed by ice beasts and manticores anyway and that would have been 4 spell levels I could have put into something more fruitful like keeping imp online or, had i known, canine familiar. pathetic little tramp fucked around with this message at 22:46 on Jul 17, 2016 |
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Jul 17, 2016 22:41
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Brannock posted:I haven't played in ages, but I see CSZO is dead. Grabbed my rcfile off it, but what happened? Some dumb drama with some rear end in a top hat ruining peoples' streaks by registering on different webtiles servers or something, iirc crawl.berotato.org (Atlanta) and crawl.jorgrun.rocks (Montreal) are your two best bets in the US, crawl.akrasiac.org (Arizona) also exists but is weirdly laggy in my experience
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Jul 18, 2016 00:15
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So I said I'd post when I had a character running pretty well so I guess I'll do that. Was smart and teleported away from the start of Vault 5 before I was nearly dead this time so it's going much better. Edit: Not only did I forget to c/p the link but I also am gonna stop for now since I hit 3 runes. Taking a break is probably good for me. The ideology eater fucked around with this message at 01:10 on Jul 18, 2016 |
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Jul 18, 2016 01:02
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Started a DESu and first square next to start is an amulet. It's an amu of harm... (please tell me it makes my summons do more damage) (thanks for always answering my drive by questions. I don't play online but have been playing for years. This thread is great)
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Jul 18, 2016 01:26
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I'm like 99% sure that won't affect your summons. It will get you killed very soon though. Don't wear an amulet of harm on a DESu.
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Jul 18, 2016 01:36
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If I unwield it I will have red drain on a level 1 deep elf summoner... I'm gonna wear it till I have like canine castable then I'll rely on imps... rip report to follow... edit: now wearing am of regen health. red drain sucks. hounds and imps still keeping me alive. summoner is strong edit2: d3 wands of heal wounds and digging... oh no! I am Otis fucked around with this message at 02:29 on Jul 18, 2016 |
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Jul 18, 2016 02:16
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