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Wizard Styles posted:Both Minions players bring double Brigands in a list, that's, well, it's one more than I would have expected. I haven't run two units of them in mk3 yet, but one with ua is in every list I make now. Even Arkadius. They're insane. Maybe even S tier game-wide. People with debuffs like Parasite should consider splashing them in. 12 rng 10 pow 12 attacks gets painful when you add Prey and a debuff, plus they're natively pathfinder and tough.
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Jul 15, 2016 20:09
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Yeah, I don't own Brigands but I might pick them up before their current models (which I've always liked a lot) get replaced. I've been thinking of playing them with Tanith instead of a second unit of Reeves as an independent module that can still benefit a lot from both Scything Touch and Affliction under the right circumstances.
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Jul 15, 2016 20:23
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Alpha Phoenix posted:Losing shield guard on the lights crippled wold lists. Idrians kill him and very little can screen effectively. Any gun line is bad news for baldur/brad. Every Wold was nerfed and/or lost abilities in MK3. Retribution for Bradigus perhaps but it was the theme list that was broken. I miss the Wold Guardian having Stone Flesh dearly, especially in this new meta.
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Jul 15, 2016 20:36
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They're a lot like Idrians. I like them w/ any Circle caster that needs either a self sufficient infantry unit (the Kayas or maybe Kromac 2?), or can toss out debuffs. Does Hog Wild work with Dig In? That would be nice 
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Jul 15, 2016 20:38
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Trashcan posted:Does Hog Wild work with Dig In? That would be nice
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Jul 15, 2016 20:45
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Mailbox Roleplay posted:Every Wold was nerfed and/or lost abilities in MK3. Retribution for Bradigus perhaps but it was the theme list that was broken. I miss the Wold Guardian having Stone Flesh dearly, especially in this new meta. See: Cataphracts, Earthborn, Wolds, Mad Dogs. Edit: From the Menoth forums: The best thing about Reclaimers being Jack Marshals is that they, as an order, have vows of silence. So it's this creepy dude running around waving his arms frantically at a warjack in the middle of the battle, while the warjack has to go between fighting, and looking at the reclaimer to figure out what in the Lawgivers' name it's supposed to be doing.
Alpha Phoenix fucked around with this message at 20:57 on Jul 15, 2016 |
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Jul 15, 2016 20:51
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The biggest thing that has troubled me about feeling like Jason Soles/PP has no idea what they're doing is that the laundry list of things nerfed does more or less line up with things that people only took because of themes.
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Jul 15, 2016 21:13
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Since it has been a week and a half since I posted my circle for sale everywhere without any success, I am moving on to trying to sell my Skorne, aka the worst army in existence, belongs in Age of Sigmar, etc. http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3783354 $550 + shipping, which is 50% of retail.
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Jul 15, 2016 21:14
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Kithkar posted:The biggest thing that has troubled me about feeling like Jason Soles/PP has no idea what they're doing is that the laundry list of things nerfed does more or less line up with things that people only took because of themes. I feel this way too. I really like a lot of what MK3 does, Power Up is fantastic and 'fixes' warmachine. Marshals now have useful abilities, and the game was in need for a broad sweeping rebalance. A lot of the nerfs are pretty fair. Legion players are sad but generally content, even the PP forums Cryx players are going 'yea we kinda deserved that' and Molik's changes are totally reasonable. Then there's things like Cataphracts, Kriels vs Fenns, Mauler & Earthborn being the same cost, and the comparative points cost of the Rhinodon (12), Gladiator (14), and Soldier (18) for what they do (I defy PP to show me their 'Jedi Curve' for Skorne), the Troll animus situation, and Dahlia's balance changes compared to Brun's. It's gonna take some getting used to, sure. And it's entirely possible that I'm missing some big picture balance thing... But I feel like their designs are pretty awkward compared to their balance in MK2, and in too many cases I've felt less options in what to take rather than more. Alpha Phoenix fucked around with this message at 21:38 on Jul 15, 2016 |
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Jul 15, 2016 21:32
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With as much of a pain in the dick as cataphracts are to paint, if I had painted a full fist army for Mk2 then I would be seriously considering quitting the game after the mk3 changes.
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Jul 15, 2016 21:41
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Alpha Phoenix posted:I feel this way too. I really like a lot of what MK3 does, Power Up is fantastic and 'fixes' warmachine. Marshals now have useful abilities, and the game was in need for a broad sweeping rebalance. A lot of the nerfs are pretty fair. Legion players are sad but generally content, even the PP forums Cryx players are going 'yea we kinda deserved that' and Molik's changes are totally reasonable. I think a lot of this is just a habit of comparing MK2 to MK3, which isn't as useful as I thought it would be. For one thing, I think the average power level has gone down a bit, which makes things in a vacuum seem weaker but in practice have done better than I expected. Secondly, a lot of things have a much more narrow niche, which makes generalists hard to find. Like, the Earthborn used to be a heavy you could put in any list reasonably well to have a beast that could hit hard, get hit hard, and be randomly extra fast. He kinda did everything. Now, he doesn't hit super hard but has become pretty difficult to kill (extra boxes and more terrain have made a huge difference) and is one of the few Troll heavies to get up to silly ARM values again. In my Grissel2 list, putting Wailing and Unyielding on him has made him a hugely annoying piece to deal with (last game he sat next to a house and got to be 12/24) for a pretty cheap cost. And his Animus can be incredibly important in the right matchup. Same goes for all the Troll pieces you've mentioned so far. Kriels are cheap as dirt if you just take them as max units with no attachments and can really clog some poo poo up for minimal points. All the elemental lights have at least a reason to exist (Slags will be great ADR pieces for heavy jack matchups, I'm running 1 storm and 1 winter with Gunny for infantry clear, Pyre just got a better gun and Fire Eaters are still good), which is something. I don't think they hit the mark on everything (The gently caress is this Impaler for now?), but I think a lot of the pieces I've seen maligned (especially in Trolls, which I've been working in a lot) are better than people think.
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Jul 15, 2016 21:44
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waah posted:With as much of a pain in the dick as cataphracts are to paint, if I had painted a full fist army for Mk2 then I would be seriously considering quitting the game after the mk3 changes. I finished painting my last unit of arcuarii about a week before the announcement. All I know now is hate.
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Jul 15, 2016 21:51
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Skorne is the most accidentally meta faction in any game I know.
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Jul 15, 2016 21:57
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waah posted:With as much of a pain in the dick as cataphracts are to paint, if I had painted a full fist army for Mk2 then I would be seriously considering quitting the game after the mk3 changes. I liked painting the Arcuraii. I haven't even assembled my Centratii because I don't have anywhere to put them. 
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Jul 15, 2016 22:03
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The night I painted my Praetorian Swordsmen I was actually cross-eyed the rest of the night from concentrating so much on the models in insufficient light. Was not fun. I felt they came out pretty well though.
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Jul 15, 2016 22:11
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In theory I like the idea of armies whose theme is they could destroy the world if they could get out of their own way. It's just not a lot of fun on the table.
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Jul 15, 2016 22:21
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I've said before and I'll say again Skorne's design philosophy is, uniquely among the factions, based more on what they're not allowed to have than on what they are. They've always leaned heavily on a few power models because all of the new designs are so "safe." Like, there's no reason in the world for Zaal2's DEF or SPD 3 Aradus. It often felt like their models came out the door preemptively nerfed due to PGBH, but now they're nerfed and most beasts got worse in Mk3, not better. Molik's changes were good, probably, but the reason you saw him so much was that he was the only thing the faction had that could compete with Banes, Stormwall etc in terms of effectiveness.
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Jul 15, 2016 22:47
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rydiafan posted:I think the limitation is a feature, not a bug. If you can fit everything there's no interesting decisions to make in list building. Yeah I remember hearing about some kind of tournament format (mostly used in Europe iirc) that was 42 Mk2 points, and that it made list building more interesting than 50 Mk2 points because you had to make hard decisions about what to bring instead of having like 5-10 points of "just in case" stuff to round out your list really well.
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Jul 15, 2016 22:48
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^ I actually liked 42 points in MK2, and yea, 75 MK3 feels a lot closer to that. You can't simply bring the kitchen sink anymore, and support bloat is a harder choice. 75 feels nice, though I wouldn't mind a small 10-point 'sidebar' for all factions, upped higher for ADR.CaptCommy posted:Same goes for all the Troll pieces you've mentioned so far. I see what you're saying, but even with the power level going down there's some wonky choices. I like the Slag troll being more distinct than the Pyre, and assault really gives it a neat niche. I actually really like the new slag. But you used to have the option of Slag, Pyre, or Mauler for a +dmg animus. Now you NEED a mauler (or MK) to give out rage. It's less of a choice than before. I can agree with you on the earthborn and say it's place is to be tanky, yet without adaptation you still need a mauler to make it hit harder than a bomber. I really don't want to have my heaviest hitter in the list be dice -5 against my enemy's heavies, especially with Khador getting all uppity, which creates a mandatory Mauler tax where one didn't exist before. I guess I can say it's "My Opinion" that the kriels aren't really cheap enough to justify their losses. They're only 1 MK2 point away from Fenns. If the fenn's price increased or the kriels price was even lower for the loss of Prayers and Steady, maybe? But it's only a difference of 7/11 to 9/15. They do clog for cheap. Prayers just let them do so and be useful at the same time. I'm not saying trolls are in a bad place, mind you. I'm just saying I feel less versatility in list building in mk3. Alpha Phoenix fucked around with this message at 22:53 on Jul 15, 2016 |
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Jul 15, 2016 22:49
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75 points with Specialists is nice imo because you can't bring everything you could possibly need at once but Specialists still allow you to prepare for most things and make skew lists less attractive. I really hope Specialists becomes the default for bigger tournaments. There's always the issue of discouraging newer players or those that are just getting into a new faction when they need an extra 20 points worth of models, so it's obviously not going to work for a lot of small local Steamrollers. But purely from a gameplay perspective it seems ideal to me. e: Not that the rules for Masters or whatever are immediately relevant for most of the games that I play, but I'd like it if I could bring a list + specialists and nobody would bat an eye because it's an accepted standard. Wizard Styles fucked around with this message at 23:25 on Jul 15, 2016 |
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Jul 15, 2016 23:17
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Aren't most Steamroller tournaments 2 lists anyway? It's been a while since I've been to one. It doesn't seem like 2 lists + Specialists needs that many more models than just 2 lists. Do you have to include Specialists if the tournament allows it? And do you have to bring the full points of Specialists if you do include them? If you don't have to use all your Specialists points, new players could still benefit from swapping out a solo or something.
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Jul 15, 2016 23:53
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GoodBee posted:Do you have to include Specialists if the tournament allows it? And do you have to bring the full points of Specialists if you do include them? If you don't have to use all your Specialists points, new players could still benefit from swapping out a solo or something. Nope and nope, which is why I'd also like to see specialists become a default. The real hurdle is ensuring players are playing a legal list after the swap at a large event. Local SR isn't too bad and there's usually more of a level of trust that makes it fairly painless, but at a large event making sure that each players swaps and changes are still legal (in regards to themes and point values and attachments) is kind of a logistical nightmare.
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Jul 16, 2016 00:13
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mr. stefan posted:Shortened from pthalocyanine, the chemical used to give it its bright blue color Pthalocyanines are a bunch of dyes that are used in blues and greens. They are really good at making things blue. When I was doing traditional art, the advice about Pthalo paints was if you get even a speck in a mix you don't want tinged blue, just chuck it because you will never get rid of the blue tint. They weren't kidding. I have something of a personal vendetta against it, but it is a good pigment as long as you want things to be blue. Fun fact: Apparently it was discovered because a chemical plant producing a related chemical was having trouble with all of their product being blue. Blue. (Mostly I'm just nerding out about a dumb thing that doesn't matter.)
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Jul 16, 2016 01:33
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Wizard Styles posted:Skorne is the most accidentally meta faction in any game I know. This is true. The pain from impromptu parking lot flesh piercing is really what makes me lose my games
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Jul 16, 2016 01:41
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rydiafan posted:Full lists are here, if you want them: http://ringdevc.w14.wh-2.com/atc/StaticEvents/WiTC%20Year%201teams.html Thanks. Very interesting. Good to see a few other Ret players are thinking of a Kaelysaa+Helyanna pairing. Talking of Helyanna I'm now 5-0 with her. She's taken out Nemo1, Stryker1, Denny1,Thagrosh1 and Ossrum. Girls got serious game.
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Jul 16, 2016 07:34
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Paint recs sounded wonderful. Thanks, guys. Final question, and it's about material. I've heard a lot of people critical about PP's plastics, but also saying that recently they've switched to better ones. What are your experiences with the old plastics and even metals, and is there a list of which releases are going to be in the newer ones? Thanks again for putting up with all of my newcomer questions.
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Jul 16, 2016 08:18
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A lot of the plastics are still the old type that have mold lines that can be annoying as hell to remove, the new battle boxes use this type. Only some of the newer models use the normal plastic you would see in a GW or scale model kit and they are pretty good by all accounts.
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Jul 16, 2016 08:51
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In celebration of my newfound love Helyanna, here's the (painted part) of my undefeated 75 point list. 
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Jul 16, 2016 10:41
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Black on red is a cool colour set. Nice!
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Jul 16, 2016 11:06
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The Bee posted:Paint recs sounded wonderful. Thanks, guys. I'm critical as hell about models, and for the larger stuff like jacks, beasts, or larger infantry it's not too bad. My biggest issues have been human sized resin plastic infantry (like the ones you'd get from the new 2 player sets) and the resin/metal combo kits. The plastic jacks take a little time to clean up but aren't bad at all in general. Serotonin posted:In celebration of my newfound love Helyanna, here's the (painted part) of my undefeated 75 point list. Awesome looking. For the rest of your list, is it infantry, solos, or jacks? I'm having a hard time coming up with lists that aren't very stilted one way or the other in Ret. My journeyman list for Ret looks to only have a battle mage unit and electromancers for units and lots of jacks and solos. I can't help but feel like I need more infantry there somewhere.
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Jul 16, 2016 12:01
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Serotonin posted:In celebration of my newfound love Helyanna, here's the (painted part) of my undefeated 75 point list. One day I'm gonna have a painted model. One day...
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Jul 16, 2016 12:09
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rkajdi posted:I'm critical as hell about models, and for the larger stuff like jacks, beasts, or larger infantry it's not too bad. My biggest issues have been human sized resin plastic infantry (like the ones you'd get from the new 2 player sets) and the resin/metal combo kits. The plastic jacks take a little time to clean up but aren't bad at all in general. Currently unbeaten with this list. It's really strong into shooting. Even a Ossrum and Earthbreaker list barely dented it last night. Magister Helynna - WJ: +30 - Sylys Wyshnalyrr, The Seeker - PC: 4 - Discordia - PC: 18 (Battlegroup Points Used: 18) - Imperatus - PC: 22 (Battlegroup Points Used: 12) - Chimera - PC: 8 - Banshee - PC: 18 Arcanist Mechanik - PC: 2 Arcanist Mechanik - PC: 2 Arcanist Mechanik - PC: 2 Soulless Voidtracer - PC: 2 Dawnguard Sentinels - Leader & 9 Grunts: 18 - Dawnguard Sentinel Officer & Standard - Officer & Standard: 4 - Soulless Escort - PC: 1 Heavy Rifle Team - Leader & Grunt: 4 ---
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Jul 16, 2016 12:42
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Serotonin posted:Currently unbeaten with this list. It's really strong into shooting. Even a Ossrum and Earthbreaker list barely dented it last night. Do you ever feel like only having one proper unit puts you at a disadvantage? Maybe it's that I'm coming over from Skorne (and maybe partially that I was dumb and bought a bunch of units early) but I feel naked without 2-3 units.
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Jul 16, 2016 13:33
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rydiafan posted:I thought people might find this interesting. It's a breakdown of the players in my team event tomorrow. Which one is Madrak2 and why can't I find it on PP
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Jul 16, 2016 13:59
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Literally The Worst posted:Which one is Madrak2 and why can't I find it on PP World Ender.
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Jul 16, 2016 14:39
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Literally The Worst posted:Which one is Madrak2 and why can't I find it on PP It should be the subtitle on the cards in your faction deck. PP doesn't show the models in this way on their website, which is annoying. The caster's full name is Madrak Ironhide, World Ender.
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Jul 16, 2016 14:49
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rkajdi posted:Do you ever feel like only having one proper unit puts you at a disadvantage? Maybe it's that I'm coming over from Skorne (and maybe partially that I was dumb and bought a bunch of units early) but I feel naked without 2-3 units. In Mk2 I would have (long time Ret player) but not so far in Mk3. The Sentinels are incredibly durable, usually with Deflection up and Kinetic Field from Discordia, you have them moving forward at armour 21. Then with their mini feat and Helyanna feating they are at Arm 27 vs shooting, theres very little thats going through that. In fact soemtimes its almost too good as you then cant trigger Vengeance as nothing dies. In all the games Ive played, the only time Ive lost more than half my Sentinels has been Vs Stalker Deathstriders with the auto 1 damage they pull off. Last night Vs Ossrum, I was up against the Earthbreaker, 5 Gunbunnies and a Driller, and the only casualties I lost all game were 5 Sentinels to melee from the Horgenhold Forge Guard and a Driller, and a Chimera from shooting that I had stupidly thrown away to pull off an ill advised Obliteration. My 3 heavies were barely scratched. By the time I had assassinated his caster with a charge from my Sentinels, he had a half wrecked Earthbreaker, no jacks, and a few support solos.
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Jul 16, 2016 15:09
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rkajdi posted:It should be the subtitle on the cards in your faction deck. PP doesn't show the models in this way on their website, which is annoying. The caster's full name is Madrak Ironhide, World Ender. I just bought back in so I don't have the faction deck. The problem was PP not listing the full name for Madrak1 on the gallery because they discontinued the original and only have the variant now I'm actually going to order the rest of my 75'point Troll army through the shop this afternoon. Hype. BENGHAZI 2 fucked around with this message at 15:25 on Jul 16, 2016 |
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Jul 16, 2016 15:22
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https://atcwmh.com/witc-2016-rounds-and-standings/ That website will be live updated with pairings, standings, results, etc. Also, the bartender here is a volunteer, so his drinks are double strong.
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Jul 16, 2016 17:30
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Ragnor status after second week of play: still sick nasty.
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