X-Wing: Let's Fly Some Wangs

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Traditional Games > X-Wing: Let's Fly Some Wangs

Slab Squatthrust: Jun 3, 2008; This is mutiny!

Kill_Discussion posted:

Ordinance should have been designed as "Roll X dice, if this attack hits cancel all results and deal Y hits/crits/ion/stress." Weapon accuracy is reflected by how many dice you throw and the amount of damage is consistent. Would have been a lot better than the method they chose and how many fixes it took to make it viable.

This would completely poo poo on ships without 3 agility even harder that ordnance does already. I mean, look at any 2 evade ship and then tell me something like this:

code:

Proton Torpedo Mk II

3 Attack
Range 2-3

Spend target lock to attack with this weapon.

If your attack hits, cancel all dice results and instead deal 2 damage and 1 critical damage to the target.

Or whatever, wouldn't just poo poo all over them. That would just wreck things already weak to ordnance, and prevent even getting "lucky" and rolling double evades against the shot to cancel extra damage. It sort of makes sense from a story perspective, but gameplay-wise this would be a total nightmare with how the game works currently.

# ? Jul 16, 2016 16:11

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# ? May 16, 2024 04:53

Panzeh: Nov 27, 2006; "..The high ground"

Yeah, right now the result of 'good' ordnance is basically making super alpha strike lists that poo poo on the lesser part of the field leaving Palp Aces left.

I said this before guidance chips, well the first part of this. Literally the only thing ordnance does is put out alpha strikes.

I think maybe the better way would be to change ordnance from being disposable wholly different attacks to disposable added dice to normal attacks with a certain number of uses, being significantly cheaper than currently. This makes it more appealing to use the individual torp/missile slots on ships that aren't kitted out for a huge synergy.

Panzeh fucked around with this message at 16:19 on Jul 16, 2016

# ? Jul 16, 2016 16:14

Aramoro: Jun 1, 2012

The Gate posted:

This would completely poo poo on ships without 3 agility even harder that ordnance does already. I mean, look at any 2 evade ship and then tell me something like this:
code:
Proton Torpedo Mk II

3 Attack
Range 2-3

Spend target lock to attack with this weapon.

If your attack hits, cancel all dice results and instead deal 2 damage and 1 critical damage to the target.
Or whatever, wouldn't just poo poo all over them. That would just wreck things already weak to ordnance, and prevent even getting "lucky" and rolling double evades against the shot to cancel extra damage. It sort of makes sense from a story perspective, but gameplay-wise this would be a total nightmare with how the game works currently.

That changes Ordnance in a really game breaking way though. You roll 3 hits against an X-Wing and he just sucks up 3 damage, can't even mitigate it in anyway. That makes the Alpha strike problem worse because it all or nothing.

With those they would have to be very cheap to get played because they're so all or nothing, but make them too cheap and they'll just annihilate aces.

# ? Jul 16, 2016 16:45

Slab Squatthrust: Jun 3, 2008; This is mutiny!

Aramoro posted:

That changes Ordnance in a really game breaking way though.

Yes, that was my entire point. It's a terrible idea to have any attack work like that. It's why the cannons all only deal 1 damage when they have a secondary effect, and even then TLT was on the verge of being overpowered.

# ? Jul 16, 2016 16:52

Kill_Discussion: Dec 15, 2005; Just watch it...

The Gate posted:

This would completely poo poo on ships without 3 agility even harder that ordnance does already. I mean, look at any 2 evade ship and then tell me something like this:
code:
Proton Torpedo Mk II

3 Attack
Range 2-3

Spend target lock to attack with this weapon.

If your attack hits, cancel all dice results and instead deal 2 damage and 1 critical damage to the target.
Or whatever, wouldn't just poo poo all over them. That would just wreck things already weak to ordnance, and prevent even getting "lucky" and rolling double evades against the shot to cancel extra damage. It sort of makes sense from a story perspective, but gameplay-wise this would be a total nightmare with how the game works currently.

It actually hurts the high agility ships the most since they'll be taking more damage if they roll 1 less evade than needed. Low agility ships will be taking similar or less. It would depend on the numbers and since this system isn't used there's nothing to go off. I think it would ultimately have been a far easier system to balance when you have a known quantity of how much damage each missile/torp can deal. It also deals with the variance problem that helped make ordinance nonviable in competitive play for so long.

Maybe in this system Proton Torps only roll 2 dice. Who knows without actually testing it out.

Kill_Discussion fucked around with this message at 17:13 on Jul 16, 2016

# ? Jul 16, 2016 17:08

hoiyes: May 17, 2007

Or, roll attack dice = defender green dice (minimum of 1, missiles + 1, guidance chips + 1)

# ? Jul 16, 2016 17:18

thespaceinvader: Mar 30, 2011; The slightest touch from a Gol-Shogeg will result in Instant Death!

Kill_Discussion posted:

It actually hurts the high agility ships the most since they'll be taking more damage if they roll 1 less evade than needed. Low agility ships will be taking similar or less. It would depend on the numbers and since this system isn't used there's nothing to go off. I think it would ultimately have been a far easier system to balance when you have a known quantity of how much damage each missile/torp can deal. It also deals with the variance problem that helped make ordinance nonviable in competitive play for so long.

Maybe in this system Proton Torps only roll 2 dice. Who knows without actually testing it out.

This is essentially my thought. A protorp might roll two heavy dice, whilst a concussion missile might roll two light dice. The Concussion Missile might get doublehit hit, requiring 3 evades to cancel entirely but doing at most two damage, whereas the protorp might roll doublecrit hit, requiring only two evades to cancel but dealing crit crit if you only get one evade result.

# ? Jul 16, 2016 17:34

Chemmy: Feb 4, 2001

A torpedo should be a little model that gets moved around the board. No range restrictions but it can turn to some degree and locks on to the closest ship or something.

# ? Jul 16, 2016 18:58

thespaceinvader: Mar 30, 2011; The slightest touch from a Gol-Shogeg will result in Instant Death!

Chemmy posted:

A torpedo should be a little model that gets moved around the board. No range restrictions but it can turn to some degree and locks on to the closest ship or something.

That was my other idea. When you fire a torp, you put down a token with guides on either end, but otherwise bomb token shape and size. It can do a 3 forward, 3 bank, or 3 turn each round after activation. When it or its template overlaps a ship that wasn't the one that launched it, it detonates doing $thing.

# ? Jul 16, 2016 19:02

overdesigned: Apr 10, 2003; We are compassion...; Lipstick Apathy

That would be pretty neat I think. Should it be PS0, or PS-of-pilot-that-launched?

# ? Jul 16, 2016 19:46

Panzeh: Nov 27, 2006; "..The high ground"

It's interesting but probably too fiddly for x-wing.

# ? Jul 16, 2016 20:03

canyoneer: Sep 13, 2005; I only have canyoneyes for you

Yeah. The idea of TOW style guided missiles isn't really on theme in X Wing.

Now, bullseye-ing womp rats, that's on theme

# ? Jul 16, 2016 20:15

Tekopo: Oct 24, 2008; When you see it, you'll shit yourself.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xmXp802sFgQ&t=69s

YT-2400 canon. Dash Rendar canon?!!!

# ? Jul 16, 2016 22:25

Baron Fuzzlewhack: Sep 22, 2010; ALIVE ENOUGH TO DIE

They confirmed we'd just be seeing the YT-2400, no Dash.

Conspicuously, however, there were TIE Interceptors in the trailer, and one of them had a red stripe painted across its panels...

# ? Jul 16, 2016 22:27

Eimi: Nov 23, 2013; I will never ~~log off~~shut up.

So when is Rebels coming to Netflix?

# ? Jul 16, 2016 22:43

Tekopo: Oct 24, 2008; When you see it, you'll shit yourself.

Probably never. I bought my one from Amazon Prime :shrug:

# ? Jul 16, 2016 22:44

banned from Starbucks: Jul 18, 2004

W..Wedge?

# ? Jul 16, 2016 22:45

thespaceinvader: Mar 30, 2011; The slightest touch from a Gol-Shogeg will result in Instant Death!

Wanna bet that the rest of the cadets are Biggs and Hobbie and Garven and co?

# ? Jul 16, 2016 22:46

Eimi: Nov 23, 2013; I will never ~~log off~~shut up.

thespaceinvader posted:

Wanna bet that the rest of the cadets are Biggs and Hobbie and Garven and co?

There was one lady cadet. Did Norra or Shara defect from the Academy?

# ? Jul 16, 2016 22:47

Galaga Galaxian: Apr 23, 2009; What a childish tactic!
Don't you think you should put more thought into your battleplan?!

That lady cadet was Sabine, one of the main characters. She just washed the hair dye out to infiltrate the academy I guess. :v:

# ? Jul 16, 2016 22:48

Eimi: Nov 23, 2013; I will never ~~log off~~shut up.

Galaga Galaxian posted:

That lady cadet was Sabine, one of the main characters. She just washed the hair dye out to infiltrate the academy I guess.

Oh. I don't know the characters well enough. :v:

# ? Jul 16, 2016 22:49

AndyElusive: Jan 7, 2007

Baron Fuzzlewhack posted:

Conspicuously, however, there were TIE Interceptors in the trailer, and one of them had a red stripe painted across its panels...

The One-Eighty-Worst Imperial Fighter Wing is now Disney canon.

# ? Jul 17, 2016 00:39

Tekopo: Oct 24, 2008; When you see it, you'll shit yourself.

AndyElusive posted:

The One-Eighty-Worst Imperial Fighter Wing is now Disney canon.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Oy6DwHAi70

# ? Jul 17, 2016 00:40

Dr. Doji Suave: Dec 31, 2004

A friend of mine convinced me to jump off the Star Trek train while it was derailing over a cliff and hop into X-Wing. Another buddy and I picked up a few ships, with him picking up a Core Set (the older one, but I have the NO version on its way).

I grabbed Imperial Veterans and a TIE-Defender, while he grabbed Core Set, Imperial Veterans, 4 TIE Fighter Expansions, and a Devastator (recently). Our buddy loaded us up with 4x Veteran Instincts and some alt art cards.

Been having a lot of fun so far despite losing most of the games we have been playing! I went with an Ionic Breeze build (a poor man's version of one posted earlier):

TIE-Defender (Maarek) with Veteran Instincts, ION Cannon, TIE/D Title
TIE-Defender (Glaive Squad) with Veteran Instincts, ION Cannon, TIE/D Title
TIE-Bomber (Gamma Squad) with Veteran Instincts, Proximity Mines (1)

This did alright against his TIE Swarm which was a bunch of aces and a Countess TIE-D (losing to dice rolling poorly), but now that he has a Devastator out on the board it's been a bit difficult to get in position without his Ruthlessness kicking off, mixed with his ship playing space bumper cars.

I had a few questions in regards to ships and rules though:

1) Is the TIE-Defender worth taking outside of an Ace for most situations, or are you better with a swarm of normal TIEs? I like how the ship looks, I like that it has shields, but the point cost seems pretty spicy for more than 2 at a time.
2) Is Cloaking worth using? After reading it, it seemed good for getting into position and that was it, unless you have Adv. Cloaking systems.
3) Does the Devastator have a 360 degree primary firing arc? I assume it does but we wanted verification.
4) Can an Ion effect knock you off the board?

# ? Jul 17, 2016 01:02

Tekopo: Oct 24, 2008; When you see it, you'll shit yourself.

Dr. Doji Suave posted:

A friend of mine convinced me to jump off the Star Trek train while it was derailing over a cliff and hop into X-Wing. Another buddy and I picked up a few ships, with him picking up a Core Set (the older one, but I have the NO version on its way).

I grabbed Imperial Veterans and a TIE-Defender, while he grabbed Core Set, Imperial Veterans, 4 TIE Fighter Expansions, and a Devastator (recently). Our buddy loaded us up with 4x Veteran Instincts and some alt art cards.

Been having a lot of fun so far despite losing most of the games we have been playing! I went with an Ionic Breeze build (a poor man's version of one posted earlier):

TIE-Defender (Maarek) with Veteran Instincts, ION Cannon, TIE/D Title
TIE-Defender (Glaive Squad) with Veteran Instincts, ION Cannon, TIE/D Title
TIE-Bomber (Gamma Squad) with Veteran Instincts, Proximity Mines (1)

This did alright against his TIE Swarm which was a bunch of aces and a Countess TIE-D (losing to dice rolling poorly), but now that he has a Devastator out on the board it's been a bit difficult to get in position without his Ruthlessness kicking off, mixed with his ship playing space bumper cars.

I had a few questions in regards to ships and rules though:

1) Is the TIE-Defender worth taking outside of an Ace for most situations, or are you better with a swarm of normal TIEs? I like how the ship looks, I like that it has shields, but the point cost seems pretty spicy for more than 2 at a time.
2) Is Cloaking worth using? After reading it, it seemed good for getting into position and that was it, unless you have Adv. Cloaking systems.
3) Does the Devastator have a 360 degree primary firing arc? I assume it does but we wanted verification.
4) Can an Ion effect knock you off the board?

1) Deltas/other generics with X7 are very good and cost effective, it's not only aces that make the Defender works and probably in terms of cost analysis deltas with X7 are the better defenders.
2) Whisper and Echo are still good with VI and ACD, but that's pretty much it.
3) Yes
4) Yes

# ? Jul 17, 2016 01:12

hoiyes: May 17, 2007

Tekopo posted:

1) Deltas/other generics with X7 are very good and cost effective, it's not only aces that make the Defender works and probably in terms of cost analysis deltas with X7 are the better defenders.
2) Whisper and Echo are still good with VI and ACD, but that's pretty much it.
3) Yes
4) Yes

3) No, no, no. The Decimator has a normal printed forward facing primary arc. Abilities and Munitions that reference firing arcs only work inside this arc. It has a turret primary weapon that can shoot outside the printed arc.

# ? Jul 17, 2016 01:52

Dr. Doji Suave: Dec 31, 2004

hoiyes posted:

3) No, no, no. The Decimator has a normal printed forward facing primary arc. Abilities and Munitions that reference firing arcs only work inside this arc. It has a turret primary weapon that can shoot outside the printed arc.

This was how we ruled it at the table, so glad we were in the right!

Thanks for the feedback Tekopo and hoiyes!

# ? Jul 17, 2016 02:09

Kill_Discussion: Dec 15, 2005; Just watch it...

Dr. Doji Suave posted:

This was how we ruled it at the table, so glad we were in the right!

Thanks for the feedback Tekopo and hoiyes!

Same goes for any turreted primary (YT-1300) as well as secondary turret (Twin Laser Turret, Blaster Turret, etc). So things like Tactician that require being in arc don't trigger if you're firing outside the primary arc with a turret. But there are ships with auxiliary arcs that do count as arcs for these triggers. These include the rear arc of the Firespray and the 180 degree arc of the YV-666.

# ? Jul 17, 2016 02:23

Dulkor: Feb 28, 2009

I've been running triple x7s for a few weeks now with a lot of success thus far. I'd recommend Onyx over Delta just to further mitigate Predator on enemy aces if you're going to spam them, though.

# ? Jul 17, 2016 02:46

Finster Dexter: Oct 20, 2014; Beyond is Finster's mad vision of Earth transformed.

Tekopo posted:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xmXp802sFgQ&t=69s

YT-2400 canon. Dash Rendar canon?!!!

YT-2400 was already canon. It's in ANH special edition.

# ? Jul 17, 2016 08:14

Kilo147: Apr 14, 2007; You remind me of the boss
What boss?
The boss with the power
What power?
The power of voodoo
Who-doo?
You do.
Do what?
Remind me of the Boss.

Dash not canon, so says the word of God.

# ? Jul 17, 2016 10:16

JerikTelorian: Jan 19, 2007

Tekopo posted:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xmXp802sFgQ&t=69s

YT-2400 canon. Dash Rendar canon?!!!

I think the better news is Thrawn canon? Thrawn owns really hard.

# ? Jul 17, 2016 16:07

thespaceinvader: Mar 30, 2011; The slightest touch from a Gol-Shogeg will result in Instant Death!

I really wanna watch Rebels now.

# ? Jul 17, 2016 16:31

Sushi in Yiddish: Feb 2, 2008

Darktroopers too, goddamn. Dave Filoni and FFG probably have to have the most fun job in the world, just picking and choosing the best parts of the EU to bring back.

# ? Jul 17, 2016 16:40

Chill la Chill: Jul 2, 2007; Don't lose your gay

Sushi in Yiddish posted:

Darktroopers too, goddamn. Dave Filoni and FFG probably have to have the most fun job in the world, just picking and choosing the best parts of the EU to bring back.

They haven't brought back Wraith Squadron yet and if they did, it will likely be Corran Horn's adventures in Rogue Squadron. However, I love Filoni's samurai jack-like Ahoska art: http://www.starwarsunderworld.com/2016/07/ahsoka-novel-cover-art-trading-cards.html

# ? Jul 17, 2016 17:07

Improbable Lobster: Jan 6, 2012; "From each according to his ability" said Ares. It sounded like a quotation.; Buglord

Sushi in Yiddish posted:

Darktroopers too, goddamn. Dave Filoni and FFG probably have to have the most fun job in the world, just picking and choosing the best parts of the EU to bring back.

Then why would they bring back Thrawn and Dash

# ? Jul 17, 2016 17:13

thespaceinvader: Mar 30, 2011; The slightest touch from a Gol-Shogeg will result in Instant Death!

Hey can anyone throw me some cool ideas for repaints of my JM5k? It's going to be my oath next month, but I can't think of a scheme

# ? Jul 17, 2016 17:35

Poopy Palpy: Jun 10, 2000; Im da fwiggin Poopy Palpy XD

Improbable Lobster posted:

Then why would they bring back Thrawn and Dash

The best parts of the EU still aren't very good.

# ? Jul 17, 2016 17:41

ConfusedUs: Feb 24, 2004; Bees?
You want fucking bees?
Here you go!
ROLL INITIATIVE!!

Has anyone heard from The Gate. We still haven't gotten our league game in.

# ? Jul 17, 2016 17:47

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# ? May 16, 2024 04:53

Slab Squatthrust: Jun 3, 2008; This is mutiny!

ConfusedUs posted:

Has anyone heard from The Gate. We still haven't gotten our league game in.

I'm alive I swear, just been out of town a ton the past two weeks. If your around this afternoon I can probably get the game in. Deviant too, if he's around.

# ? Jul 17, 2016 18:34

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