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The Lone Badger posted:Can we keep that crap to the bad thread?
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Jul 17, 2016 12:34
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this is the bad thread
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Jul 17, 2016 12:37
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fritz posted:Do you know how many different types of animals there are out in the world. 2 Tasty ones. Cute ones. There is some overlap.
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Jul 17, 2016 13:51
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Can someone help me find a webcomic? It was a violent fantasy comic with writing reminiscent of Fritz Leiber.
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Jul 17, 2016 15:12
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Doctor_Fruitbat posted:We could use spoiler tags for recent updates, or even just in general. woah poppy
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Jul 17, 2016 15:19
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Dmitri-9 posted:Can someone help me find a webcomic? It was a violent fantasy comic with writing reminiscent of Fritz Leiber. Basileus?
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Jul 17, 2016 15:20
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Dmitri-9 posted:Can someone help me find a webcomic? It was a violent fantasy comic with writing reminiscent of Fritz Leiber. This one?
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Jul 17, 2016 15:20
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Avshalom posted:i make a webcomic with my rear end. the webcomic is a poo and the internet is a toilet. you are all bacteria and i mean that. however much like bacteria, we're all part of the same ecosystem link please
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Jul 17, 2016 15:21
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:Basileus? That's the one, thank you.
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Jul 17, 2016 15:25
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A Wizard of Goatse posted:not really, it's a whole technobabble branch of physics that really only has 'glowy stuff' in common with generic fantasy setting magic, and the terminology is in service to the scientific, early-industrial mastering-of-electricity handling of it in the story. How it works is a significant part of the plot and like 2/3 of the major characters are little wizard Orville Wrights running around figuring out how flight works when instead of gravity and wind resistance aerodynamics operates on the platonic ideal of bird I stopped reading Unsounded pretty early on and haven't started back up, but that description makes it sound exactly like magic.
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Jul 17, 2016 16:03
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fritz posted:I stopped reading Unsounded pretty early on and haven't started back up, but that description makes it sound exactly like magic. You know how any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic? The way the writer describes it is that the people in this world are doing what amounts to magic, but what they're actually doing is living in what amounts to a video game or program or whatever, where the "magic words" they speak are basically commands that cut and paste parts of the code from one thing onto another. Want to turn a piece of paper into a deadly weapon? Speak words that take the sharpness value of your enemy's sword and apply it to your paper. Now cut their head off. That sort of thing. The smoke eels and other weird bits are the world's operating system going "no, wait, you can't do that. lemme fix this poo poo you hosed up".
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Jul 17, 2016 16:11
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so it's magic
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Jul 17, 2016 16:20
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It's basically a semantics difference, yes.
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Jul 17, 2016 16:38
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I don't read unsounded, but I do think there's a useful distinction between magic that draws from mysticism or the arcane, and what's essentially sci-fi in wizard hats.
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Jul 17, 2016 16:46
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Well yeah. I'm not saying it's different, that's just roughly the canon explanation of what's going on. Where it becomes slightly different is when the characters begin talking about it. Most magic-based worlds, the people using magic are either like "I dunno how it works, it just works", or they make it seem like it's some understanding that no mere mortal could ever hope to attain. In this setting, the characters talk about it like a finely dissected and understood science, which is what A Wizard Of Goatse was talking about with his "whole technobabble branch of physics" post.
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Jul 17, 2016 16:49
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Morbi posted:Oh jesus The internet always finds a way to disappoint. 
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Jul 17, 2016 16:56
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neogeo0823 posted:Most magic-based worlds, the people using magic are either like "I dunno how it works, it just works", or they make it seem like it's some understanding that no mere mortal could ever hope to attain. Actually the vast majority of modern fantasy works approach magic in an extremely clinical and technical way that involves a shitload of obtuse rules and inevitably descends into power level horseshit, because "magic as science" is the exact kind of overtrod idea that has attracted the attention of incredibly tiresome genre writers for decades. I blame DnD and Jack Vance, personally.
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Jul 17, 2016 17:25
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my favorite is 'magic is actually writing a persuasive essay'
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Jul 17, 2016 17:44
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Dmitri-9 posted:Can someone help me find a webcomic? It was a violent fantasy comic with writing reminiscent of Fritz Leiber. The Clandestinauts?
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Jul 17, 2016 17:48
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fritz posted:I stopped reading Unsounded pretty early on and haven't started back up, but that description makes it sound exactly like magic. sure but irl alchemists and poo poo who approached magic as a pseudoscience instead of 'the wizard throws 2d6 fireballs' also had/have their own impenetrable jargon specific to what they thought was going on. Nobody who wants their poo poo taken seriously or thinks they know how it works calls it magic, that'd be some lovely fucken writing. A Wizard of Goatse fucked around with this message at 17:52 on Jul 17, 2016 |
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Jul 17, 2016 17:49
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pro-click
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Jul 17, 2016 17:51
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mr. stefan posted:Actually the vast majority of modern fantasy works approach magic in an extremely clinical and technical way that involves a shitload of obtuse rules and inevitably descends into power level horseshit, because "magic as science" is the exact kind of overtrod idea that has attracted the attention of incredibly tiresome genre writers for decades. I blame DnD and Jack Vance, personally. Vance gets a pass because his idea of magic "system" is satirical. The world is so hosed up that even magic spells are mathematically exact repetition. Sad that no one picked up on that.
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Jul 17, 2016 18:00
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mr. stefan posted:Actually the vast majority of modern fantasy works approach magic in an extremely clinical and technical way that involves a shitload of obtuse rules and inevitably descends into power level horseshit, because "magic as science" is the exact kind of overtrod idea that has attracted the attention of incredibly tiresome genre writers for decades. I blame DnD and Jack Vance, personally. Yeah rule based magic is in fuckin everything and I think the last writer to really have a "magic is just magic" approach was Tolkien? edit: I guess what really cheeses me off is that despite appearing in fuckin everything it gets treated as subversive each time, by both the author and the fans. mycot fucked around with this message at 18:38 on Jul 17, 2016 |
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Jul 17, 2016 18:06
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mycot posted:Yeah rule based magic is in fuckin everything and I think the last writer to really have a "magic is just magic" approach was Tolkien? Pratchett kind of flirted with it, in the sense that only wizards really have any idea how magic works and they spend long and arduous careers trying to hide that fact from everyone including themselves and each other.
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Jul 17, 2016 18:12
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Yeah, he did still have some scientific principles to it but it was mostly like, magic's easier when it's doing things slightly less impossible, like if you're teleporting somewhere you bring an equal amount of dirt back the other way.
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Jul 17, 2016 18:20
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mycot posted:Yeah rule based magic is in fuckin everything and I think the last writer to really have a "magic is just magic" approach was Tolkien? Name of the Wind has both rule based magic and "magic is just magic" magic. Game of Thrones magic isn't really the focal point, but it seems to be just magic. At the very least, everyone, even the people performing the magic, understand it so poorly that it might as well be. Harry Potter's magic doesn't seem to follow any rule or reason.
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Jul 17, 2016 18:20
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Wittgen posted:Name of the Wind has both rule based magic and "magic is just magic" magic. Game of Thrones magic isn't really the focal point, but it seems to be just magic. At the very least, everyone, even the people performing the magic, understand it so poorly that it might as well be. Harry Potter's magic doesn't seem to follow any rule or reason. AFAIK Harry Potter is implied to have some underlying system for its magic (which is why there's a literal school for it), it's just that all the POV characters are middle schoolers.
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Jul 17, 2016 18:33
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mycot posted:Yeah rule based magic is in fuckin everything and I think the last writer to really have a "magic is just magic" approach was Tolkien? Well, Kill Six Billion Demons seems to have magic pretty much boiling down to "when you're strong enough the world just caves to your will" as far as its mechanics go.
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Jul 17, 2016 18:34
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mycot posted:Yeah rule based magic is in fuckin everything and I think the last writer to really have a "magic is just magic" approach was Tolkien? Tolkien didn't explain magic because he didn't have to. He stuck to standard archetypes that didn't need explanation. Wizards cast spells and are wise; elves are immortal and in touch with nature; dragons are huge, dangerous beasts; spiders trap and poison you; etc. The one odd thing was Tom Bombadil, and he does go into some explanation about Tom during one of the council meetings.
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Jul 17, 2016 18:56
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hahahaha
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Jul 17, 2016 19:27
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Wasn't Tom Bombadil there specifically to showcase why they couldn't find someone better than Frodo to take the ring? He was practically a parody character and totally clashed with the rest of the story. mr. stefan posted:Actually the vast majority of modern fantasy works approach magic in an extremely clinical and technical way that involves a shitload of obtuse rules and inevitably descends into power level horseshit, because "magic as science" is the exact kind of overtrod idea that has attracted the attention of incredibly tiresome genre writers for decades. I blame DnD and Jack Vance, personally. The only web fiction I can remember that treats magic as magic (ie super capricious and impossible to pin down, like some kind of anti-science) is either obscure or terrible or both. Tenebrais posted:Well, Kill Six Billion Demons seems to have magic pretty much boiling down to "when you're strong enough the world just caves to your will" as far as its mechanics go. Apart from that one.
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Jul 17, 2016 19:30
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Most of the magic in LOTR is just how things are. Gandalf throws fire around because of his ring, not because he's a wizard, and the other stuff he does is mostly tricks. The only out-and-out magic he does is because he's an angel, and even that isn't very big. The rings are amazing works of magic because some guy was just that good at metalwork. It's a world where craft and secrets have power; Aragorn's sword is more than just a normal sword because of its history and because the elves poured all their skill into it. All the middle earth stuff is very influenced by Norse mythology, so the closest thing to a magic spell are the songs of slaying sung by ancient heroes as their blades cleave through the flesh of their enemies (because in this world, God sung existence into being.)
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Jul 17, 2016 19:50
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Gandalf didn't have a ring, he got his power because he was some kind of scion of one of Middle Earth's gods. There was a lot less magic in LOTR than there would later be in DnD.
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Jul 17, 2016 20:01
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The story was the real enchantment.
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Jul 17, 2016 20:02
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SlothfulCobra posted:Gandalf didn't have a ring, he got his power because he was some kind of scion of one of Middle Earth's gods. I thought Gandalf had one of the three elven rings?
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Jul 17, 2016 20:07
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mycot posted:Yeah rule based magic is in fuckin everything and I think the last writer to really have a "magic is just magic" approach was Tolkien? Tolkein has rules for his magic he just never mentions them in text. Some of his collected papers include little in-universe treatises on a few magic rules. I'd honestly say dnd magic is one of the less 'rule based' because the only real 'rule' is the number of incredible things you can do in a short period, but there's absolutely no restriction on what said incredible things can be.
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Jul 17, 2016 20:14
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Renaissance Robot posted:Wasn't Tom Bombadil there specifically to showcase why they couldn't find someone better than Frodo to take the ring? He was practically a parody character and totally clashed with the rest of the story. That's because he wrote a bunch of like fairy tales about Tom Bombadil and that forest he lived in decades before LotR. He was included basically as an easter egg for his children, and to add some whimsy I guess.
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Jul 17, 2016 20:38
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Tenebrais posted:I thought Gandalf had one of the three elven rings? Yeah, he had Narya : http://lotr.wikia.com/wiki/Narya
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Jul 17, 2016 20:42
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Noted webcomic: The Lord of the Rings.
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Jul 17, 2016 21:39
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If Tolkien were here today, he'd say "NYAARGHH, BRAINNSSS!  "
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Jul 17, 2016 21:42
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