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computer parts posted:I cannot think of a single group that maintains perfect consistency over the time period the Star Wars films are likely to span (especially when getting to Episode 9 and beyond). True, but I would think having a literal committee dedicating to maintaining continuity would lead to more consistency than, say, the old Legends EU had
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Jul 17, 2016 17:20
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jivjov posted:True, but I would think having a literal committee dedicating to maintaining continuity would lead to more consistency than, say, the old Legends EU had Basically the only way to maintain consistency is to: - Never set anything after the most chronologically recent film - Have very minimal stories (i.e., no Death Stars) - Involve the main cast as little as possible, so they don't get into a scenario that would make them say "I remember something like this happening before" et all And things of that nature.
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Jul 17, 2016 17:47
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"These stories only count if this corporate council says so" - a grown adult
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Jul 17, 2016 18:08
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A Jedi corporate council. NO ANAKIN SKYWALKERS ALLOWED!
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Jul 17, 2016 18:11
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:"These stories only count if this corporate council says so" - a grown adult Well, seeing as Disney is the corporate entity that owns Star Wars...why shouldn't they be in charge of what is and isn't canonical to the franchise? The old Legends stuff is still fun (working on a re-read of the Wraith Squadron books right now, actually) even if they aren't canonical.
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Jul 17, 2016 18:12
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Canonicity is an attempt to control stories and thus strip them of their power. It's pretty telling that nerds unironically use religious terminology to describe the truth of stories. "Canonicity" is explicitly a method of control and didacticism. And it's a tool for pathetic idiots to elevate space wizard fantasy stories to the status of religion because they rely on a corporation to guide them how to read fiction.
BravestOfTheLamps fucked around with this message at 18:23 on Jul 17, 2016 |
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Jul 17, 2016 18:18
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:Canonicity is an attempt to control stories and thus strip them of their power. It's pretty telling that nerds unironically use religious terminology to describe the truth of stories. "Canonicity" is explicitly a method of control and didacticism. And it's a tool for pathetic idiots to elevate space wizard fantasy stories to the status of religion because they rely on a corporation to guide them how to read fiction. Yeah, it's a method of control to present a coherent, interconnected, ongoing narrative with internal consistency. Which some fans value. And look, I made my point without personal insults; jackass.
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Jul 17, 2016 18:25
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I didn't call you an idiot, I know that you're a mature person and just playing devil's advocate with this canonicity nonsense.
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Jul 17, 2016 18:30
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:I didn't call you an idiot, I know that you're a mature person and just playing devil's advocate with this canonicity nonsense. The concept of a fictional universe having a canonical continuity isn't "nonsense"
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Jul 17, 2016 18:32
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jivjov posted:The concept of a fictional universe having a canonical continuity isn't "nonsense" Treating pulp fiction as religious texts is nonsense.
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Jul 17, 2016 18:36
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:Treating pulp fiction as religious texts is nonsense. Nobody is treating Star Wars as a religion. Yes, "canon" originated as a religious term, but that's obviously not the context it is being used in for this discussion.
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Jul 17, 2016 18:38
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jivjov posted:Nobody is treating Star Wars as a religion. Yes, "canon" originated as a religious term, but that's obviously not the context it is being used in for this discussion. The only really distinguishing factor is that people don't believe Star Wars literally happened. And even that isn't necessarily a disqualifying factor for being a religion.
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Jul 17, 2016 18:42
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The movies are always going to dictate the parameters of the EU, EU materials are never going to set the parameters of the movies. The new EU, I mean.
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Jul 17, 2016 18:43
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So far the new EU is being used to tell smaller stories or give background flavor. Everyone is right, you're probably not going to have big stories (as someone else said, no Death Stars) with the main characters from the movies, because you'd have too big of a risk stepping on someone's toes. And honestly that's fine. Lost Stars is one of the best Star Wars books I've read in over a decade, and it focuses on two new characters existing in the background of major events from the OT. Rogue Squadron and Wraith Squadron are some of the stronger books in the old EU, and other than Han showing up for one book and a cameo from Leia (...I think), the biggest character in those books was Wedge. Granted, you would have had a problem if someone wanted to make a movie about taking back Coruscant, which happened in one of the Rogue Squadron books, so something like that could be a big deal issue. But smaller stories in Star Wars is not a bad thing. Use the movies for big, giant, epic stories, and use the books to fill in the universe. New characters, background stories.
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Jul 17, 2016 19:01
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jivjov posted:Nobody is treating Star Wars as a religion. Yes, "canon" originated as a religious term, but that's obviously not the context it is being used in for this discussion. Yet you've just posted a rewritten Nicene Creed: jivjov posted:Yeah, it's a method of control to present a coherent, interconnected, ongoing narrative with internal consistency. Which some fans value. The theological formulations are quite similar, with the definition of a Christian Church being a particularly interesting comparison: First Council of Constantinople posted:We believe in one God, the Father, the Almighty, maker of heaven and earth, of all that is, seen and unseen. Objectively speaking, this New Canon is really an idiotic farce of the Arian controversy. BravestOfTheLamps fucked around with this message at 19:44 on Jul 17, 2016 |
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Jul 17, 2016 19:08
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We officially have casting for young Han Solo, plus explicit confirmation that Episode VIII is picking up exactly where VII left off. http://deadline.com/2016/07/star-wars-celebration-alden-ehrenreich-han-solo-episode-viii-rian-johnson-1201787697/ jivjov fucked around with this message at 19:46 on Jul 17, 2016 |
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Jul 17, 2016 19:42
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Canon as it relates to entertainment franchises is a joke and will always be a joke.
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Jul 17, 2016 20:06
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kiimo posted:teasers always come first. Trailers are 2.5 minutes. Anything that is 3 minutes is going to be an EPK or sizzle reel with behind the scenes footage. They are a long way from finishing this film, no way a 3 minute trailer would be released. Listen to this man, by god he knows his trailers. I feel like we'll get a proper full trailer by around September, premiere it during Sunday night football or some other big football game and put it online/in front of movies at theaters at the same time. It'll be interesting to see how well it does financially, I have faith that it'll be at least good (if not great), but I do wonder how a Star Wars film performs when it's the first side-story movie and when it doesn't have the monstrous anticipation that Episode 7 had. I mean, it's probably going to come down to how much over $1 billion it makes, but still.
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Jul 17, 2016 20:17
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A Han Solo movie is the worst idea, I just can't get over it. It's everything safe and risk-averse about Disney, and it will go down as worse than any prequel. It's such a shame that they're wasting these anthology movies on such conservative creative ideas.
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Jul 17, 2016 20:17
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Serf posted:Canon as it relates to entertainment franchises is a joke and will always be a joke. I doubt Disney is paying several employees in the Story Group as some kind of joke.
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Jul 17, 2016 20:21
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Retardation is no joke.
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Jul 17, 2016 20:25
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jivjov posted:I doubt Disney is paying several employees in the Story Group as some kind of joke. They're paying them to develop storylines. One of the sub-goals (making sure nothing is contradictory) is the joke. Remember that the MCU had exactly this sort of system set up and it was panned.
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Jul 17, 2016 20:28
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Why is "maintaining internal consistency" and "having continuity " a joke?
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Jul 17, 2016 20:30
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jivjov posted:Why is "maintaining internal consistency" and "having continuity " a joke? That's not what canon is. Canon, in your own words, is crafting a teleological narrative to organize a community - that is to say, a creed for a Church.
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Jul 17, 2016 20:41
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jivjov posted:Why is "maintaining internal consistency" and "having continuity " a joke? Because as time goes on the difficulty of maintaining it increases by a lot and the benefits of maintaining it decrease or at least don't increase*. This is especially true for something like Star Wars because it doesn't have a set end date. That's why continuity only really works in very limited runs (eg, the Hunger Games trilogy is only 3 films). *This is especially true because most audience members really don't have that great a memory about films. People don't care if actors are recast (as the MCU demonstrates with the Hulk), as long as there wasn't some major cliffhanger in the previous film they won't really care if the exact beats don't match up. Especially when you're 4-5 films down the line and 7-8 years.
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Jul 17, 2016 20:41
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jivjov posted:Why is "maintaining internal consistency" and "having continuity " a joke? Because there is no consistency between Force Awakens and previous films except in the form of rudimentary plot continuity. The plot of Episode 6 is canon, while the narrative of Episode 6 is overwritten and ignored.
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Jul 17, 2016 20:44
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jivjov posted:I doubt Disney is paying several employees in the Story Group as some kind of joke. Are you a literal child or do you just have the mind of one?
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Jul 17, 2016 20:52
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:Because there is no consistency between Force Awakens and previous films except in the form of rudimentary plot continuity. What from episode 6 was "overwritten"?
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Jul 17, 2016 20:52
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jivjov posted:What from episode 6 was "overwritten"? Children redeeming the mistakes of their parents, for one. Kinda loses its touch when it turns out everyone is not only a fuckup, but had basically the same thing happen all over again. (Though I think SMG would argue that's the point of the first six films)
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Jul 17, 2016 21:03
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Guys, I don't think jivjov is ready for enlightenment, and it's ok. One day he might be free from the illusion of canon, but for now he is happy living within the Lie and we cannot take that from him.quote:Nan-in, a Japanese master during the Meiji era (1868-1912), received a university professor who came to inquire about Zen.
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Jul 17, 2016 22:16
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Continuity is a tool for enjoying media in a certain way. Ensuring that a group of related stories possess qualities that make them receptive to continuity-based reading is a courtesy to a fairly large subset of readers. An emphasis on continuity can be pathological both in audiences (who can become obtusely immune to other modes of reading) and in art (which can become needlessly and awkwardly constrained in its literal structure), but the same is true of any other quality.
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Jul 17, 2016 22:34
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Jewmanji posted:A Han Solo movie is the worst idea, I just can't get over it. It's everything safe and risk-averse about Disney, and it will go down as worse than any prequel. It's such a shame that they're wasting these anthology movies on such conservative creative ideas. I feel the same way and was really happy when Rogue One was announced and took it as a sign that they were wavering on the young-X style of spin-offs. With the the Han Solo movie moving ahead and the whole debacle about the reshoots for Rogue One, I'm a bit meh on the whole anthology thing.
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Jul 17, 2016 22:37
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jivjov posted:Well, with the Story Group being directly involved with the plotting of the films, books, comics, etc...that hopefully won't happen I find your faith disturbing
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Jul 17, 2016 22:39
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Bongo Bill posted:Continuity is a tool for enjoying media in a certain way. Ensuring that a group of related stories possess qualities that make them receptive to continuity-based reading is a courtesy to a fairly large subset of readers. An emphasis on continuity can be pathological both in audiences (who can become obtusely immune to other modes of reading) and in art (which can become needlessly and awkwardly constrained in its literal structure), but the same is true of any other quality. Eh, like I said earlier I think people might care in the short term, but really not give a gently caress in the long term. So just because something was established in ANH doesn't mean it has to be exactly the same in TFA or Episode 8 or whatever 40 years down the line. This is especially true when you hop mediums, and you get to something like "Dude in movie X has this type of armor but book Y said that wasn't invented for another 20 years!"
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Jul 17, 2016 22:41
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I agree with everyone here that the prequels should not be considered canon.
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Jul 17, 2016 22:58
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Trump posted:the whole debacle about the reshoots for Rogue One Which debacle is that?
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Jul 17, 2016 23:05
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TerminalSaint posted:Which debacle is that? Probably the one that turned out to be trumped up bullshit.
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Jul 17, 2016 23:07
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thrawn527 posted:Probably the one that turned out to be trumped up bullshit. Dont bring trump into this
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Jul 17, 2016 23:07
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How many stories are there about the 3 Musketeers? How many of them are "canon"?
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Jul 17, 2016 23:19
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MonsieurChoc posted:Guys, I don't think jivjov is ready for enlightenment, and it's ok. One day he might be free from the illusion of canon, but for now he is happy living within the Lie and we cannot take that from him. How's he supposed to empty it if he keeps filling it? Checkmate "master".  quote:I agree with everyone here that the prequels should not be considered canon. As long as we have the christmas special.
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Jul 18, 2016 03:42
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