|
Well... Hopefully the Q&A comes out soon if at all.
|
#
?
Jul 17, 2016 01:23
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 28, 2024 19:12 |
|
|
The Gentlemieu posted:Well... Hopefully the Q&A comes out soon if at all. He said on Facebook that he will do one but not any time soon and that he wanted us to talk about the story with our friends over beers.
|
|
#
?
Jul 17, 2016 01:34
|
|
|
someone should do a carlos montage to the tune of "I am a real american"
|
|
#
?
Jul 17, 2016 01:51
|
|
|
Danaru posted:I mean it seems pretty clear that Uchikoshi wants to do a fourth game if he can, the entire ending felt like a sequel hook much like VLR's did. Seeing as ZTD sold like 14 copies, I wouldn't hold my breath. Also it's pretty clear he doesn't want to continue the series, he wants to do new poo poo. ZTD might as well have been a completely different game with how much poo poo he dropped from the other games. Also as far as ending chat goes, I thought VLR had objectively the worst ending out of any game I'd played ever. Then I played ZTD. I've never played any of Uchikoshi's other poo poo, but it's pretty clear the guy does not know how to write an ending.
|
|
#
?
Jul 17, 2016 06:27
|
|
|
The ending of Ever17 is perfectly fine. It's the middlegame that is exhausting as gently caress. Oh right, and 999's ending is fine too.
|
|
#
?
Jul 17, 2016 06:30
|
|
|
I think it's more like he doesn't know what to do with a series, and should probably stick to single games. Apparently the weirdness of the Remember11 ending was due to a conflict with the director about how it should end so they just put in both endings at the same time.
|
|
#
?
Jul 17, 2016 06:42
|
|
|
I'm not completely satisfied since the ending is quite abrupt and flat but Zero's actions can be adequately handwaved away by saying he is a huge rear end in a top hat and I'm pretty sure one of his "complex motives" is that he's doing it for shits and giggles. He's the leader of a powerful cult and has loads of money. I mean, why not? "Not being a terrible murderous rear end in a top hat" doesn't seem to be one of his objectives. Maybe I'm just easily placated or something. I'm just kind of thrilled it exists and that there's a happyish ending.
|
|
#
?
Jul 17, 2016 08:50
|
|
|
Can someone summarize what's the relationship between Delta and Dio? Is Dio Delta's clone or something? That bit confused me a somewhat.
|
|
#
?
Jul 17, 2016 10:59
|
|
|
Jack Trades posted:Can someone summarize what's the relationship between Delta and Dio? Dio is a clone of Delta's adopted brother.
|
|
#
?
Jul 17, 2016 11:00
|
|
|
Clarste posted:Dio is a clone of Delta's adopted brother. Oh, right. Wasn't Delta called Right and his adopted brother was called Left and Dio was the clone of Left?
|
|
#
?
Jul 17, 2016 11:10
|
|
|
Lareine posted:I'm not completely satisfied since the ending is quite abrupt and flat but Zero's actions can be adequately handwaved away by saying he is a huge rear end in a top hat and I'm pretty sure one of his "complex motives" is that he's doing it for shits and giggles. He's the leader of a powerful cult and has loads of money. I mean, why not? "Not being a terrible murderous rear end in a top hat" doesn't seem to be one of his objectives. I had a similar thought. Basically, I think that Zero/Delta's motives are basically what he's saying in the final ending in the desert. Congratulations, you've done all this work, and what did it accomplish? You may have created one timeline where things are different. What does that actually change? Tie this in with Akane's bit after they roll the triple ones (pre-Carlos and SHIFTing Excellent Adventures) where she states that scoring that 1/216 chance wasn't actually impressive or notable because with enough repetition, it would happen. Similarly, that amazing true ending where everyone survives and no Radical 6 is let loose? That's not a miracle, or a product of hard work and a fifty year plan on the moon, or anything like that. It was simply something that, in one time, was assured to happen. Zero's motives were to ensure he existed, as best as possible, and something like a giant middle finger to all of the SHIFT capable espers that despite him being limited to only one timeline, he was able to demonstrate that their powers meant less than nothing. Like, if you take the entire game as a "you are powerless and cannot actually affect anything" message to the characters it kind of makes sense. In a weird way, it's actually an evil version of 999. 999 was all about Akane ensuring her survival in the past. ZTD is the same thing, but taken to an extreme: in ZTD, Delta is ensuring his existence, and not really doing it in the safest of manners, just like Akane. But Akane had a reason for her death trap to be the way it was: to replicate her "current" situation, with retribution against her captors on the side. To ensure his existence, Delta just needed to get the portion of the timeline where Sigma and Diana are left alone after finding out everyone else is dead or left the facility, and everything therein. None of that actually required that everyone die or for their to be multiple ways to cause large explosions or world shattering apocalypses. But he did it anyway. Unlike Akane's side goals of getting back at the people who kidnapped her and her brother and made them go through all that where one of the perpetrators was actually in front of them and admitted all of it, and there was proof and witnesses, Delta had none of that. His alleged side goal had no proof or evidence, and was very likely made up*. His complex motives are nothing more than him showing off how much better he was, especially in the true end where he accuses the characters of heartlessly killing innocent people whose only crime was winning a coin toss while he did nothing anywhere near so bad. This reminded me of a bit of worldbuilding theory/something I had. Alright, so Delta can't SHIFT, right? He says so. Whereas two thirds of our cast can. He points this out and notes that he exists in a single timeline and hasn't been jumping through this. But on the other hand, how does he know to set everything up the way he did? Akane set up her entire VLR plan without jumping far into the future, but she clearly has her entire plan laid out and thought up by the time she walks out in the VLR ending of ZTD. How does she know this is what she needs to do? In 999, Junpei states that the purpose of the 999 Nonary Game then was to recreate what she saw in the future when she was a child. Akane in narration also states that she can get information from the morphogenetic field from multiple branching timelines, even though normally those timelines can't otherwise see or influence each other. Alright, so what? So now, we have VLR reward, which is an extensive glorified training course to be able to send Sigma and Phi's consciousnesses back to 2028. They start receiving information from other timelines to the extent that they're eventually able to send their entire "self" to another timeline. So, here's the thing. In both 999 and VLR, characters receive information through the morphogenetic field. In VLR and ZTD, characters send their consciousnesses to other timelines, swapping with their selves from that timeline. VLR Sigma and Phi don't SHIFT until the very end when Akane pulls a knife on them. Up until that point, any stunts they pull are the same as 999, pulling information from alternate timelines. Notably, when this happens, they're the same person. Sigma prior to entering in a bomb code or a computer password is the same as the Sigma who knows that information and enters it. Compare when someone SHIFTs: they don't "know" what has transpired in that timeline yet. When Sigma SHIFTs back to 2029 to begin the AB Project, he doesn't have any recollection of what happened in DCom, even though his body was clearly there. Similarly, when C Team goes on their SHIFTing adventure, they don't know what happened in their new timeline, as most clearly shown by Chainsawed Carlos. Carlos kills Akane, then a new Carlos SHIFTs in. He's surprised to see Akane's body, and then gets images of it flashing through his head, and even still he doesn't associate it with his own self. This is borne out by the game's interface. SHIFTing in ZTD is accompanied by the light entering and leaving bodies. Why did we never see that before? Because the only times prior to that when we experienced the phenomenon was as Sigma himself, in first person. There was never a reason to see it before. Simply accessing information is, in VLR and ZTD, accompanied by a flash of various images comprising the info dump. So, they're different. Duh. This is likely something that anyone still reading this thought "yeah, I knew that", even if they didn't explicitly think it. Why bring this up? Delta can MIND HACK(tm). Delta cannot SHIFT. However, who's to say he can't access the morphogenetic field? In fact, he explicitly states he could only gather information from timelines where he was alive. Which...makes sense, actually. Almost all the time someone sends or receives information over the field, it's from themselves, not other people. The exception is a few bits I can't be bothered to confirm in ZTD (did the C/D team members get info about the timelines they weren't alive in? Specifically, I can't actually remember if Phi found out about the circumstances of her birth through it and it's getting late and I have stuff due in eighteen hours) and, of course, the entirety of 999. Even then, Junpei gets info from his alternate timeline selves in that. So, Delta didn't need to necessarily MIND HACK(tm) everyone in order to pull off his plan. He simply did the same thing Akane clearly does for VLR: get a whole bunch of info from his future self about how to set up this ridiculously complex plan to accomplish his...complex motives. *Linking these two piles of nonsense together: Akane gets all of her information from future timelines. Like, you don't concoct a decades long plan that involves cloning, AI development, and freaking robots, all of it on the Moon, oh yeah and cryogenic stasis without someone psychically transmitting a step by step guide for pulling that off (which brings to mind, how? She had to have gotten the information from multiple sources as no single person was around for everything that the AB Project dealt with). So the question is, how does she not know about the ZTD true end at any point during ZTD proper? Or who really killed Junpei in the pantry or any number of things? The only explanation I can think of is that while timelines are infinite and branching and one can travel and send/receive information between them, their existence is not a constant and thus new timelines are only created as they're brought about, thus meaning that alternate timelines themselves exist on some sort of linear dimension that can only be traversed one way and now I think I'm officially high on Uchikoshi.
|
|
#
?
Jul 17, 2016 11:22
|
|
|
Trasson posted:The only explanation I can think of is that while timelines are infinite and branching and one can travel and send/receive information between them, their existence is not a constant and thus new timelines are only created as they're brought about, thus meaning that alternate timelines themselves exist on some sort of linear dimension that can only be traversed one way and now I think I'm officially high on Uchikoshi. This is actually a pretty good interperatation, considering remember how many people get stuck because they didn't go back and revote  those fragments are locked because they don't exist yet because the player hasn't caused them to existYes, some characters remember stuff from timelines the player hasn't made exist yet, but the player WILL make those timelines exist, so they do exist from a certain perspective. Just as Akane could see everything in 999 before the events were brought about. Jesus christ I'm reading this back and I sound completely clownshoes bonkers
|
|
#
?
Jul 17, 2016 11:39
|
|
|
Trasson posted:VLR Sigma and Phi don't SHIFT until the very end when Akane pulls a knife on them. Up until that point, any stunts they pull are the same as 999, pulling information from alternate timelines. I don't think that's accurate; there's a lot in VLR that's clearly consciousness transfer, not just gaining information. Even in the Dio ending you have Phi complaining that Sigma didn't make the jump with her this time. Trasson posted:Almost all the time someone sends or receives information over the field, it's from themselves, not other people. The exception is a few bits I can't be bothered to confirm in ZTD (did the C/D team members get info about the timelines they weren't alive in? Specifically, I can't actually remember if Phi found out about the circumstances of her birth through it and it's getting late and I have stuff due in eighteen hours) ZTD had a lot of people getting information from others. In particular there were a lot of scenes where the team leaders get flashes of the other teams being executed; the door in the Pod Room, for example, is only found because Carlos sees a vision of Q team being executed, and then tells Q team about what he saw. Trasson posted:So, Delta didn't need to necessarily MIND HACK(tm) everyone in order to pull off his plan. He simply did the same thing Akane clearly does for VLR: get a whole bunch of info from his future self about how to set up this ridiculously complex plan to accomplish his...complex motives. That's definitely possible, and it's one way to explain how he knew to set things up. I don't think it's necessarily required, but the other possible sources of his information are much more dubious. For example, technically baby delta could have learned all he needs to know by mind hacking doomed Diana and Sigma, but there's no end of problems with that idea. He could also have gained a lot of information from the Carlos that went back ten months, but in particular that wouldn't tell him about the twins.
|
|
#
?
Jul 17, 2016 11:39
|
|
|
Based mostly on the dialogue scene between him and Sean, I choose to believe that Delta is completely unable to ask questions of other people that aren't posed as decisions between two seemingly very dramatic things (and concluded with "This... is the decision game"). I rather think it makes his character much better. He could have just asked "Sean, do you feel like killing yourself? Is your existence suffering? I can help." But no, he had to make it a Decision Game. I can imagine him working a counter and being extremely obnoxious to all his customers. "The fates of you, me, and your salad lunch all hang in the balance"
|
|
#
?
Jul 17, 2016 12:39
|
|
|
The only thing that's good about delta is how hilariously lovely of a character he is.
|
|
#
?
Jul 17, 2016 12:59
|
|
|
So here's my problem with ZTD's ending: I don't know what it's trying to say. I don't understand where on the sympathy scale Delta is supposed to be taken as a whole, I don't understand what is up with the moral dilemma with SHIFTing which wasn't resolved at all, obviously it has no closure for Team D which is bullshit, and the whole LET'S GO BACK AND STOP MIRA IN ANOTHER TIMELINE is just baffling. VLR's ending was bleak but with bits of happiness, but what even is ZTD's ending?
|
|
#
?
Jul 17, 2016 13:21
|
|
|
Things I probably would've done differently in ZTD: -Involved Free the Soul, Left, Myrmidons a lot more than they did -Mira should have just remained a straight up villain to be "beaten" like Ace and Dio -Drop the SHIFTing dilemmas because at this point of time after everything that's been done with it in these games it rings pretty hollow That's before getting into the stuff with Kyle which would probably be a lot more complicated.
|
|
#
?
Jul 17, 2016 13:30
|
|
|
But Where Was Junpei's Jacket Though?
|
|
#
?
Jul 17, 2016 18:54
|
|
|
Kyle was carrying it for him.
|
|
#
?
Jul 17, 2016 18:55
|
|
|
My interpretation of the timeline: Nuclear war timelines: -Riots break out in small city due to lack of Pepsi, which escalates to a worldwide Pepsi shortage -A religious fanatic starts a nuclear war as a result of their thirst -Humanity annihilated Radical 6 timeline: -The religious fanatic dies of Radical 6, but 6 billion still die -VLR happens here ZTD true ending: -After everything seen in the decision game, Carlos is inspired and determined, becomes Pepsiman -The events of the game Pepsiman happen -Everybody has Pepsi and is happy Uchikoshi just wanted to tie it all together at last.
|
|
#
?
Jul 17, 2016 20:36
|
|
|
I wish Delta wasn't Brother. Delta is trying to stop a religious fanatic who wants to kill everyone, when that's what Brother was sold as in VLR. Instead of Free the Soul, Left etc. being handwaved away, they could've been the unknown threat Delta was trying to stop. Delta being Brother just seems like it was chosen as the easiest way to wrap things up so all the major mysteries in the series could be solved. Not a satisfying answer to one of the most important questions in VLR. Why was Junpei's doll a weird robotic thing? I expected that to be foreshadowing something, but the only reveal about Junpei was that he's cynical now.
|
|
#
?
Jul 17, 2016 20:36
|
|
|
alcharagia posted:So here's my problem with ZTD's ending: I don't know what it's trying to say. I don't understand where on the sympathy scale Delta is supposed to be taken as a whole, I don't understand what is up with the moral dilemma with SHIFTing which wasn't resolved at all, obviously it has no closure for Team D which is bullshit, and the whole LET'S GO BACK AND STOP MIRA IN ANOTHER TIMELINE is just baffling. VLR's ending was bleak but with bits of happiness, but what even is ZTD's ending? The best kind of ending: one where you accomplish nothing, the villain gets the best of you, and you are out of control of the situation.
|
|
#
?
Jul 17, 2016 20:46
|
|
|
alcharagia posted:So here's my problem with ZTD's ending: I don't know what it's trying to say. I don't understand where on the sympathy scale Delta is supposed to be taken as a whole, I don't understand what is up with the moral dilemma with SHIFTing which wasn't resolved at all, obviously it has no closure for Team D which is bullshit, and the whole LET'S GO BACK AND STOP MIRA IN ANOTHER TIMELINE is just baffling. VLR's ending was bleak but with bits of happiness, but what even is ZTD's ending? The problem with the moral dilemma of SHIFTing is that I really don't think it can be solved at all. If you're in a situation where you're a SHIFTer and you're about to die, you can either just die or swap consciousness with another you who proceeds to die instead of you. To avoid dying, you have to drat another version to your fate. If you refuse to do that, yeah, you are the moral superior but you end up dead. It cannot be solved, it can only be rationalized and is fuel for Delta to make us feel bad.
|
|
#
?
Jul 17, 2016 21:00
|
|
|
ThePariah posted:I wish Delta wasn't Brother. Delta is trying to stop a religious fanatic who wants to kill everyone, when that's what Brother was sold as in VLR. Instead of Free the Soul, Left etc. being handwaved away, they could've been the unknown threat Delta was trying to stop. Delta being Brother just seems like it was chosen as the easiest way to wrap things up so all the major mysteries in the series could be solved. Not a satisfying answer to one of the most important questions in VLR. Was Brother's identity really one of the biggest mysteries of VLR? Personally, I never cared about that subplot at all. I felt like making the villains cultists was essentially a way of not having to explain their motives at all, because they're crazy and religious. Frankly I found that far more frustrating than the memetic "My motives are... complex" from this game, because at least Delta actually had motives other than just being a cultist. So I didn't mind the Free the Soul plotline being dropped. Where could it have possibly gone anyway?
|
|
#
?
Jul 17, 2016 21:55
|
|
|
Same.
|
|
#
?
Jul 17, 2016 21:56
|
|
|
"My motives are complex" = "gently caress you, I don't have to explain anything" One of the many reasons Delta is an rear end in a top hat.
|
|
#
?
Jul 17, 2016 22:21
|
|
|
And by "I don't have to explain everything" you mean "I will now explain everything" right? There's nothing about his motives that we do not know by the end of the game, all he was saying is that he has more than one reason for doing it.
|
|
#
?
Jul 17, 2016 22:29
|
|
|
Momomo posted:And by "I don't have to explain everything" you mean "I will now explain everything" right? There's nothing about his motives that we do not know by the end of the game, all he was saying is that he has more than one reason for doing it. You thought he was totally forthcoming with his motives? You don't think he was holding anything back at all? I mean, I GUESS the motives of ensuring his birth, inspiring a group of people to find a terrorist and infecting the world with a virus that would likely kill off the terrorist with 75% percent of humanity, I GUESS those motives are enough. But I kind of doubt it. I still think he's hiding a shitload of stuff from us and I'm pretty sure "torturing people" is secretly one of the reasons he did this.
|
|
#
?
Jul 17, 2016 22:39
|
|
|
He also talked about how fascinated he was by difficult decisions and parallel worlds.
|
|
#
?
Jul 17, 2016 23:06
|
|
|
That youtube video where delta says that everyone is a shitter is a better character than the delta we got.
|
|
#
?
Jul 17, 2016 23:19
|
|
|
I like laughing about Delta but he was consistent with VLR. Complex motives aside, he did manage to divorce the soul from the body of a bunch of shi
|
|
#
?
Jul 17, 2016 23:30
|
|
|
Just finished the game 15 minutes ago. So I'm gonna kind of say... I think everyone is probably going to consider this the worst game in the series? I mean the animations are super stiff, and I'd rather have the text stuff back and save animations for when people are actually doing things, or use action-stylized pictures. There's only so many times you can cheap out by panning to the lounge ceiling before you annoy your audience. Then the puzzle rooms itself, it feels like there's less of them, less challenges per room, and they don't get as challenging as some of the end-game ones in other games. Also it was annoying that most of the problem was I was fumbling around and trying to click things to find/get to the 'start' of the puzzle, which is probably 50% of my puzzle time. From there on, it was a little easy, and I think the problem is, you could choose 80% of the puzzle rooms from the start of the game, which probably means they wanted to balance that so you could start at any room. Then there's the ending which seems to have been discussed here a lot, which still leaves the biggest thing open: that instead of 6 billion people dying, now it's all mankind going extinct? And the 'cliffhanger' is if we shoot delta or not? I still don't know if Akane's plan is actually working or not. Not going to discuss the VLR ending. (spoiler for alien movie that came out this year) I mean VLR is practically to be continued, but the way that ZTD ended is just like how independence day: resurgence ended. It's technically an ending, but there's a BIGGER loving THREAT out there, that would be more interesting that what you just kind of went through I'm also a little miffed because I had to wait an extra week to get my game because of the watch-delay preorders, so I think I'm just gonna sell the watch to make some money off it, because I kind of don't want it anymore after going through this game. Ineffiable fucked around with this message at 01:28 on Jul 18, 2016 |
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2016 01:23
|
|
|
the cliffhanger is shooting delta only if that matters in the slightest, which it doesnt, the actual cliffhanger is if they can stop the terrorist from killing everyone
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2016 01:34
|
|
|
mandatory lesbian posted:the cliffhanger is shooting delta only if that matters in the slightest, which it doesnt, the actual cliffhanger is if they can stop the terrorist from killing everyone you're right, I just meant with that's what they used as their 'dramatic flash to black' for the end of this game.
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2016 01:40
|
|
|
How much for the watch
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2016 01:40
|
|
|
Ineffiable posted:Just finished the game 15 minutes ago. This may shock you, but not everyone shares your opinions By which I mean game's good, I like it about as much as VLR, for different reasons.
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2016 01:46
|
|
|
I know this is probably a joke, but  http://zeroescape.wikia.com/wiki/Snail
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2016 01:47
|
|
|
saying its the worst in the series isn't saying its bad, and its def not as good as 999 or VLR
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2016 01:49
|
|
|
Txn posted:I know this is probably a joke, but Occupation Being a snail
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2016 01:52
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 28, 2024 19:12 |
|
|
the snail did nothing wrong
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2016 01:54
|
|