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Gejnor posted:Im gonna say this: anyone who advocates about not having Walls on every single minor settlement in your domain, or atleast have it as a goal for the future, is wrong. Always wall up, always.  I'm pretty confident in my ability, via diplomacy, blocking agents, ambush stance armies, being careful about the directions I expand, and pro-actively sacking the crap out of my enemies to stop that from happening. The scenario you describe literally has happened to me twice out of 150 hours of playtime, and both times they were pretty minor blows.EDIT: One thing I might be doing differently to most people is that I don't make war on my neighbours, in general. I make war on my neighbour's neighbours. When I do make war on someone that could attack me directly, I tend to go for very rapid elimination of the opponent. For example as VC, I *ally* with Zhufbar and fight Broken Spears instead. Zhufbar gets to eat all the sacking damage, while I sack orc hamlets for $$$. Fangz fucked around with this message at 17:10 on Jul 19, 2016 |
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Jul 19, 2016 17:04
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Fangz posted:
And for me its happened many times, especially when you underestimate Chaos appearing at your doorstep. The ai senses your weakness, like some beast on the hunt, and goes for the throat immediately if you let it. Yes you can be super active and keep your diplo,agents and ambush spam to a A++ game or you could just wall up and instead be able react much better rather than welp they just burned down my T4 settlement that had no walls but did have the foundry/upgrade building etc so now i cannot produce my mid/high tier units anymore.
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Jul 19, 2016 17:10
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I think I might be bad at dwarves or just really unlucky. First time I started I took my starting stack and basically took my initial region then swung north to grab Gunbad. As soon as I do this I get double stacked by Grimgor. Who I managed to kill with a hastily recruited lord and the garrison from the starting city, but the second stack stomps me. So I restart and I cheat up some extra funds to get an early game second stack, I take Gunbad and even manage to grab the southern region. One of the other Dwarven groups goes ape on the starting orks to my west so I think I have a buffer. Next turn the bloody spears get confederated and I've got multiple Ork stacks and a waaagh stomping on me after they wiped the buffer dwarves out in like a turn. Is this bad luck?
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Jul 19, 2016 17:13
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Taking Gunbad is kind of a trap. It's such a long walk up to it and you need everything you can get early game to stomp on Grimgor's head.
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Jul 19, 2016 17:15
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drat Dirty Ape posted:I feel like the warriors of chaos campaign could be made a lot more fun with some balance changes. It shouldn't be as ridiculous a slog as it is subjugating the north. I also think chaos needs some way to actually recover troops away from the north in a reasonable amount of time. Maybe make some sort of 'shrine' that can be built on a ruin that makes an area act as a 'home' area. The files imply that chaos is meant to get a lot of +replenishment from areas high in chaos corruption but in-game I never really noticed it--wasn't looking out for it either, but I quickly intuited that replenishment was bad and I needed to just merge/disband and re-hire. I think either the thresholds for high chaos corruption are too high or the bonuses were implemented poorly so that it's +50% of 5%, 7.5%, instead of 55%. I'll probably play around with it later to see which is the issue since both should be solvable. The only real problem would be if the issue is "the game doesn't actually use that data". I already gave chaos the beastmen "default stance is ambush, encamp is ambush" and I'm thinking the encamp is ambush part of that should probably be default with a little tweaking. Either that or I'd make channel into an ambush since they really want one to be able to deal with force march. I don't think I've ever used channel stance, really, outside of a mod I made for VC that made theirs ignore attrition so you can actually co-op without raiding your partner. Decus fucked around with this message at 17:22 on Jul 19, 2016 |
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Jul 19, 2016 17:18
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Super 3 posted:I think I might be bad at dwarves or just really unlucky. Once again, walls bruv, walls. It might be harder as Dwarfs seeing as their pop growth is slow as gently caress but basically do this: Ignore Gunbad for now and instead focus on making your starting province, once you have it that is, walled up and easily defended (+growth buildings are your friends in this). From there you have a position of strength to go anywhere you like. Help your Dwarfen kin if you so wish or just turtle-up. Either or Dwarfs are really good defensively and they only get better with time. If you can sneak up an army stack later for Gunbad do so, or if you get grimgor early (it can happen via him tunneling up without a waagh stack, trying to pick off one of your minor settlements) go for it the second hes gone, but only then. Gejnor fucked around with this message at 17:27 on Jul 19, 2016 |
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Jul 19, 2016 17:23
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Goon modders, is it possible to mod zone of control sizes?
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Jul 19, 2016 17:23
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Yeah, I've played the start of Hard dwarves a number of times and I'm reasonably convinced that your priority should be to contest Death Pass and hopefully kill Grimgor's starting stack *before* he can form a Waaagh. Edit: vvv exactly, yeah. Dwarf growth is slow and terrible enough that you can't really wall up Silver road quickly enough to make a difference. Fangz fucked around with this message at 17:36 on Jul 19, 2016 |
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Jul 19, 2016 17:26
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The pro dwarf strat is just going south with a full stack as soon as you get your starting province and take all of grimgors stuff with your op tier 1 units. Makes things extremely easy playing on VH. Use some miners to get his starting doomdiver and he'll be a nonissue.
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Jul 19, 2016 17:27
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One thing I haven't seen anyone else catch. Beastmen don't have a forced march stance.
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Jul 19, 2016 18:11
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Gunbad is absolutely amazing but I usually save it for a secondary army or when I'm nearly positive Grimgor is going to be busy for a while (like if he's just been wounded and his army wiped out in an underway battle or something). Also for new dwarf players remember to use underway stance to travel in the mountains.Fangz posted:I don't really agree that the Chaos warriors are necessarily a slog, but they do require a lot of experience to play in a way that is not sloggish, since they require a very different mentality to other factions. The adviser flat out lies to you by telling you to pick on Norscans. It seems to me that the designers intend for you to go after the Norscans (based on the advisor, the north counting as 'home' territory, and the ability to 'awaken' tribes), but actually doing it is just so tedious it may not be the most fun way forward. I've gone that route in a chaos campaign and it eventually worked for me, but it required a ridiculous amount of time playing cat and mouse with the varg and skaeling fighting against the same army types over and over before I finally went south. When the chaos invasion happened I had to kill all of them in the north before I could continue since they ignored everything but my armies (at times literally moving through human armies to get to me which didn't really make any sense). I know about merging and hiring new chaos units, but while that works fine for infantry it's not very effective with monster units, lords, heroes, and units that take longer to recruit. To me it's more of a workaround to a bad system and part of why the chaos campaign seemed so tedious. Maybe there could be a way to use favor for extra replenishment? I agree with Decus that I feel that chaos corruption was supposed to help replenish chaos armies more than it does, but that seems like something that could easily have been fixed by now.
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Jul 19, 2016 18:11
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That Beastmen campaign preview has me tempted. I just want to watch some of their streams.
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Jul 19, 2016 18:24
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I need to get back into this game for the Beastmen, but forgot I'm in the middle of an Empire campaign. Not sure where I left off. VC is down, no Chaos yet, Orcs are a huge problem to the south. When does the DLC drop again?
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Jul 19, 2016 18:31
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For replenishment as Chaos I had reasonable success allying with VC or Orcs. YMMV.
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Jul 19, 2016 18:35
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How should I build my free wizard I get at the beginning of the empire campaign? I keep hearing Vortex spells are useless, so I guess I should go for one of the other skills trees?
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Jul 19, 2016 18:52
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Megasabin posted:How should I build my free wizard I get at the beginning of the empire campaign? I keep hearing Vortex spells are useless, so It depends which wizard you got. If it's a Celestial Wizard you're probably best off just using him as a construction cost reducer in Reikland, deployed there forever.
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Jul 19, 2016 18:57
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If you get the light lizard then grab the net spell and ruin cavalry forever
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Jul 19, 2016 20:13
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About to start the Vampire Counts campaign (Hard) after beating all the others. Do you guys have any general advice for VC? What should I focus on research wise, is it worth putting some turns into making my skeletons and zombies suck less, or should i start right off on the tree that gives me growth and corruption and more money? Which of Mannfred's skills should I invest into, is it worth going into death at all (maybe two points for map wide bonus)? Finally, who should i focus on in diplomacy, is it better to try and ally with bloody spears and take down zhufbar after uniting my provinces, or should i try to ally Zhufbar, or even vassalize them (cant they still be confederated)? Any advice/ support here would be very appreciated. I really liked dwarf campaign and empire so far. Greenskins and chaos turned into a bit of a slog, I thought Greenskins felt a bit weak especially late game.
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Jul 19, 2016 21:12
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Truecon420 posted:About to start the Vampire Counts campaign (Hard) after beating all the others. Do you guys have any general advice for VC? I tend to go for growth and econ, even picking up that diplomacy boost from the lower right tree. Used to be the case that the beast tree is super good, but maybe you are better off going for wraiths now. You have a lot of freedom in terms of building Mannfred. Death is good for fate of bjuna. OTOH if you are fighting dwarves you will want wraiths and nehek to go with it. For alliances, there's arguments both ways. Bloody spears are easier to ally with due to less aversion, and zhufbar is kinda weak and easy to take out. OTOH, zhufbar is a much more reliable ally, fighting orcs boosts your diplomatic standings, and zhufbar can trade with you.
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Jul 19, 2016 21:29
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Truecon420 posted:About to start the Vampire Counts campaign (Hard) after beating all the others. Do you guys have any general advice for VC? The nice thing about VC is you can play as aggressive or manipulative as you want. You can just roll into neighboring provinces and overwhelm them with numbers, or spread corruption and incite rebellions, then take over the ruins. I've done both and find the first to be much more fun, but I think it's also easy to overextend as VC. Agents are super important for spreading corruption. My preferred way to do VC is swamping with skeletons/zombies and shattering people with heavy cavalry. The death stack I almost always seem to end up with is: Mannfred, 12x Grave Guard, 3x Blood Knights, 3x Vargheist, Varghulf. My other generals will be mostly skeletons and zombies with a vargheist or two and lesser cavalry like black knights. Research: I focus on the Lahmian tree first to boost corruption, income, your vampire agents, and blood knights. After that I'll do the tree that boosts your various skeletons and zombies but I don't focus on them too much since their entire purpose is to bog people down for your blood knights, vampries, monsters, etc. If it's a really long game it could be worth it to boost your grave guard units. I don't research the beasts/ethereal tree all that much because I generally only keep a few token vargheists around as far as beasts go, and I almost never use the ghost units. Diplomacy: You should vassalize the dwarfs immediately to your south. On higher difficulties it's also worth taking 2/3 of Western Sylvania and subjugating Schwartzhafen for the income, trade partner, and the fact that they provide ~2 stacks you don't have to pay to maintain, which is helpful in eventual wars. Owning 2/3 still gives you control of the province and the ability to issue an edict.
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Jul 19, 2016 21:30
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Gonkish posted:I still don't think that I "get" how to play as Chaos. I'm roaming around with this stack of poo poo units, everyone outnumbers me, literally every loving empire province and most of the dwarves have armies hovering around the area who absolutely refuse to engage me but will happily sack any subjugated vassals, etc. I just can't get going. Hell, at one point I tried to create a second stack and Kislev, the dwarves, the Empire, and seemingly the entire world knew exactly where Archaon and friends were and were happily marching doomstacks right up into the northernmost Chaos wastes because SUDDENLY they want to have a fight. It's just a loving slog and there doesn't seem to be anything I can do to get ahead. I don't even know where to start. Is there a decent guide or anything ANYWHERE? I've been googling like crazy and the only things that come up are lovely PR blurbs.
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Jul 19, 2016 22:17
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Kainser posted:Beastmen campaign Couple things I noticed from that. Four choice darkmoon event is nice but the choices are nowhere near balanced with eachother, the murder of crows penalty of -10% archer ammo for 2 turns is nowhere near the downside of every army starting as tired in battle for 4 turns. The building chain that reduces upkeep but also reduces horde growth seems like a bad trade-off considering how much sacking gold you get and should probably only be built as the final building after you got everything else and don't need growth anymore. -5% research rate for every tech researched is a pretty neat mechanic, but they have never been great at balancing these sorts of things so I'm sure the tech that makes your strongest unit 20% stronger is going to be on the same cost as getting +10% speed on warhounds, so there will be things you'll always want to beeline for and others to ignore completely which I could already see in the little preview. The faction leader's final item quest is for armor with +10 armor 20% magic resist, you can find common items with better defensive stats then that. No march stance which means I hope they are removing march from the other factions too. Ra Ra Rasputin fucked around with this message at 22:24 on Jul 19, 2016 |
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Jul 19, 2016 22:20
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Okay how do you vassalize dwarfs as VCs? Like I never saw an option for it and just ended up razing the red and teal dwarfs
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Jul 19, 2016 22:28
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Jamwad Hilder posted:words For Mannfreds skills, I've heard that fate of Bruja got nerfed, and that the vamp tree is the only useful one. Is it worth getting the first two points in death for that map wide bonus? And for diplomacy, can't the dwarfs still confederate Zhufbar even if I vassalize them? It seems like the game wants you to ally with orcs, as it gives a lot of them vamp influence and you have to eliminate dwarf faction to win long victory, but I guess that isn't totally relevant. Did anyone have a good experience supporting green skins/bloody spears? Thanks again for any advice Truecon420 fucked around with this message at 22:34 on Jul 19, 2016 |
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Jul 19, 2016 22:29
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Fate of Bjuna is nerfed, but not *that* nerfed. It is still one of the most effective spells in the game, as you can see in Yukitsu's tournament.quote:And for diplomacy, can't the dwarfs still confederate Zhufbar even if I vassalize them? It seems like the game wants you to ally with orcs, as it gives a lot of them vamp influence and you have to eliminate dwarf faction to win long victory, but I guess that isn't totally relevant. Did anyone have a good experience supporting green skins/bloody spears? Thanks again for any advice Fangz fucked around with this message at 22:45 on Jul 19, 2016 |
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Jul 19, 2016 22:33
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Sharzak posted:Okay how do you vassalize dwarfs as VCs? Like I never saw an option for it and just ended up razing the red and teal dwarfs You sack the poo poo out of their cities and then force it on them via the diplomacy screen.
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Jul 19, 2016 22:36
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Truecon420 posted:About to start the Vampire Counts campaign (Hard) after beating all the others. Do you guys have any general advice for VC? First off, play on very hard. Second, start the first turn by recruiting a second lord, recruiting skeletons on him and raising dead on your main army to fight the enemy army and building a goldmine in your capital. Crush that army, it will retreat towards templehof, raise more dead in the next province, chase it down and fight the garrison on the open field for a easy settlement. Take the rest of eastern sylvania and get the free necromancer from the quest while up there and use him to help reduce building costs in your capital and nearby cities. In western sylvania the rebels will be down to their last city in fort observe, when you beat them subjugate them and use them as a free "waargh" you can order to stomp out rebellions and deal with minor factions trying to sneak past your cities, finish up western slyvania by subjugating the green vampires, being able to force someone to trade with you and keep a standing army is worth more then a couple minor settlements. If you started Kemmler you'll already have Mannfred unlocked by around turn 5 after taking and subjugating all of sylvania. Focus entirely on the Lahmian book that focuses on economy and agents, almost the entire tech tree is great besides the black coach upgrades, upgrades to your trash units aren't needed because they are just there to be trash for your heavy hitters and to be spooky and you can always raise dead a dozen more after a battle so what do you care if half of them get wiped out, after Lahmian there is a 10% campaign movement tech called tireless hordes which is pretty good though, but it's time consuming to reach. When your capitals reach tier 4 get a necromancer over there to reduce costs and start building both a vampire crypt and necromancer tower, you'll need at least one vampire crypt to start recruiting them if you picked up the +1 vampire hero passive in the blue line on lords. I liked having a elite army followed around by 1-2 lords filled with skeletons zombies and a couple vargheist, I probably had around 10 lords farting around by the time I took over brettonia in time for the final chaos horde to show up, it really helps having a lord dedicated to squashing rebellions in a freshly taken over region, your vassals can deal with rebellions near them. After you take over the eastern and western sides in the first few turns your free to go in any direction you want and be as passive or aggressive or passive aggressive as you want to your neighbors. Ra Ra Rasputin fucked around with this message at 22:49 on Jul 19, 2016 |
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Jul 19, 2016 22:40
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Hey guys, what are your predictions for how good beastmen will be in multiplayer? Top tier, Dwarf/bretonnia level, or poo poo tier/chaos level?
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Jul 19, 2016 22:49
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unwantedplatypus posted:Hey guys, what are your predictions for how good beastmen will be in multiplayer? Top tier, Dwarf/bretonnia level, or poo poo tier/chaos level? I'm gonna have to guess poo poo tier. They'll inherit the problem of Chaos - unit costs are set to adjust for horde mode recruitment/sacking based income. But this means their units are too expensive for their stats in multiplayer.
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Jul 19, 2016 22:53
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Lore of the Wild has a sniping spell, a damage booster that seems absolutely crazy on a high health unit and the Cygor summoning, while the variety of vanguard units opens some interesting options depending on the map, so I expect the Beastmen to be pretty competitive against most things, but do poorly against Chaos and Dwarfs because they're lacking in anti-armour, I think?
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Jul 19, 2016 22:57
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Ra Ra Rasputin posted:First off, play on very hard. Ah thank you so much for this, it's really helpful. Do you prefer to ally with the bloody spears or vassalize Zhufbar?
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Jul 19, 2016 23:07
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Jamwad Hilder posted:You sack the poo poo out of their cities and then force it on them via the diplomacy screen. The only thing that showed up was peace treaty
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Jul 19, 2016 23:07
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Sharzak posted:The only thing that showed up was peace treaty I don't think you can vassalize them if you are at war, but I'm pretty sure if you add Peace Treaty you then go back and add Become a vassal (so you'd offer to make peace and vassalize them in the same agreement).
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Jul 19, 2016 23:12
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I'm curious how they'll balance the campaign now that they are adding beastmen. Their stances are *really* strong and they are going to upset the balance in favor of the chaos factions a lot. what if they are as annoying as the norsca 
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Jul 19, 2016 23:13
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Truecon420 posted:Ah thank you so much for this, it's really helpful. Do you prefer to ally with the bloody spears or vassalize Zhufbar? I could never manage to get other factions in a weak enough state to accept vassalage before the main faction confederated them, subjugating the other two vampire factions is enough to hold down your home province while you take over the world though. I think kemmler might be a better starting hero then mannfred because of how fast you unlock mannfred and the raise dead discount is nice since it would end up being the majority of my recruits.
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Jul 19, 2016 23:17
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Kainser posted:what if they are as annoying as the norsca 110 speed Centigor w/ AP Throwing Axes, and more capable than Marauders in melee. sigmar save us
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Jul 19, 2016 23:18
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Bring crossbowmen.
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Jul 19, 2016 23:19
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Fangz posted:I'm gonna have to guess poo poo tier. They'll inherit the problem of Chaos - unit costs are set to adjust for horde mode recruitment/sacking based income. But this means their units are too expensive for their stats in multiplayer. I find this to be a very flawed analysis. The only costs that Chaos care about in the campaign are maintenance, not recruitment. On top of that there are already plenty of cost effective Chaos units on the roster in multiplayer, although certain notables are too expensive to be feasible. Their main weakness if you ask me is the lack on any unmounted missile troops whatsoever and the absence of affordable melee cavalry. They have plenty of good infantry options even if Chosen are cost prohibitive, and like VC they have a number of good monster options.
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Jul 19, 2016 23:34
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Is there any reason you can't just roll with Dragon Ogres as your cav AND monster
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Jul 19, 2016 23:53
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Fangz posted:I'm gonna have to guess poo poo tier. They'll inherit the problem of Chaos - unit costs are set to adjust for horde mode recruitment/sacking based income. But this means their units are too expensive for their stats in multiplayer. I got the same feeling, they will probably not be priced right for multiplayer and have high costs units that are supposed to have low per-turn cost.
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Jul 19, 2016 23:59
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