Crawl 0.18: Purple Reign

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Crawl 0.18: Purple Reign

the Orb of Zot: Jun 25, 2013; Apport: the Orb of Zot
The orb shrieks as your magic touches it!
Yoink! You pull the item towards yourself.
You see here the Orb of Zot.

So out of what could best be described as a masochistic self-loathing, I want to win DESu. It wouldn't be the first time I won a Su, but the first time was MuSu back when MuSu was a bonafide good choice for a character. And since I did that literally several years ago, summons lost the abilities to attack out of LOS, a summon cap was implemented, and most recently Sif Muna's channeling (aka the one thing Mu actually had going for it because it was literally 0 cost for them outside of the turn) was removed and replaced with more piety hungry mp regen.

What's the best god for that combo? Used to be I would just go Sif Muna and channel my way to unending summons, but the Sif Muna changes make me second-guess that since Sif Muna's piety was already unfathomably slow and now her piety decays significantly faster than it used to (so I'd basically have to never use Sif Muna's abilities if I wanted my first book gift before the end of Lair).

EDIT: Actually, how come there isn't a god for summoning? Too narrow a design space?

the Orb of Zot fucked around with this message at 03:10 on Jul 18, 2016

# ? Jul 18, 2016 03:01

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# ? Jun 11, 2024 06:06

Brannock: Feb 9, 2006; by exmarx; Fallen Rib

After a quick review of the changes since I last came back, decided to go for Long Blades and try out the new riposting. Rolled to a win on my first try.

code:

3043788 Brannock the Demonic Blade (level 27, 302/302 HPs)
             Began as a Demonspawn Artificer on July 17, 2016.
             Was an Initiate of Gozag.
             Escaped with the Orb
             ... and 5 runes on July 18, 2016!

Verdict: Riposte is drat good, though it's hard to really judge since I got basically the best demonic mutations. I got Gozag by rolling a random god at the faded altar and I've never played with him before. After taking a while to get rolling, Gozag rendered the endgame trivial. Between riposte and gold-confusion I was getting in a lot of "free" damage and damage-reduction. Bribe Branch made Zot beyond cakewalk. Probably would have made post-game simple too, though you can't use it too many times before running out of gold.

I got stuck in Abyss for a bit too long (didn't realize I landed on Abyss:2 and went down to 4 instead of 3) and nearly died several times but Potion Petition saved my butt. The lack of clarity really hurt at times.

# ? Jul 18, 2016 03:06

Darox: Nov 10, 2012

the Orb of Zot posted:

EDIT: Actually, how come there isn't a god for summoning? Too narrow a design space?

Vehumet used to do that before he became good, but I'd say between the gods that provide summons directly (yred especially but also Makhleb TSO etc) and the gods that provide bonuses to your casting (especially Kiku here, but also Sif) that niche is already well covered. A god devoted to a single spell school is a bit much.*

_{*Kiku gets a pass here because necromancy is a very open school with lots of different effects and mechanics. It even has its own weapon brand.}

# ? Jul 18, 2016 03:47

someone awful.: Sep 7, 2007

new Sif is Real Good for summoners/anyone who's using spells a lot but not a straight-up blaster caster

(i really like New Sif. channeling is way too piety-intense though, either that or her piety builds too slow. not sure which)

# ? Jul 18, 2016 04:36

Kumog: Dec 28, 2006; Am I your god?

1692399 KumogSA the Orcish Blade (level 27, 200/200 HPs)
Began as a Hill Orc Wanderer on July 15, 2016.
Was the Champion of Beogh.
Escaped with the Orb
... and 3 runes on July 18, 2016!

The game lasted 07:55:24 (71888 turns).

Go figure, I rolled wanderer to sacrifice it to Xom in hopes of getting better starts, instead manage to take it through and get a completely painless Orb run. Pity the orcbuddies became total fodder at the end even with gold dragon armor on them.

# ? Jul 18, 2016 10:48

LazyMaybe: Aug 18, 2013; oouagh

If you do it right, your orc buddies stay useful all the way through the orb run. Just gotta get them up to warlords, give them polearms(this is key-preferably 1H polearms, but most important aspect is that they have polearms. much better than gifting any other weapon or armor), smite orbs of fire(with high invo you can kill them for sure in 3-4 smites), and be careful about line of sight.

# ? Jul 18, 2016 11:31

Kumog: Dec 28, 2006; Am I your god?

I...completely forgot about Smite the entire run. Even for OoFs.

Did find out that the Warlock Mirror will reflect Malmutate away, which was beautiful.

# ? Jul 18, 2016 11:44

SirSamVimes: Jul 21, 2008; ~* Challenge *~

smite is totally a cool and good mechanic

# ? Jul 18, 2016 12:13

pathetic little tramp: Dec 12, 2005; by Hillary Clinton's assassins; Fallen Rib

the Orb of Zot posted:

So out of what could best be described as a masochistic self-loathing, I want to win DESu. It wouldn't be the first time I won a Su, but the first time was MuSu back when MuSu was a bonafide good choice for a character. And since I did that literally several years ago, summons lost the abilities to attack out of LOS, a summon cap was implemented, and most recently Sif Muna's channeling (aka the one thing Mu actually had going for it because it was literally 0 cost for them outside of the turn) was removed and replaced with more piety hungry mp regen.

What's the best god for that combo? Used to be I would just go Sif Muna and channel my way to unending summons, but the Sif Muna changes make me second-guess that since Sif Muna's piety was already unfathomably slow and now her piety decays significantly faster than it used to (so I'd basically have to never use Sif Muna's abilities if I wanted my first book gift before the end of Lair).

EDIT: Actually, how come there isn't a god for summoning? Too narrow a design space?

TSO is also supposed to be a summoning god, in that he allows your summons to hang around longer, but he also punishes you if you strike a distracted monster, so that would make summoning a terror with him, I believe.

# ? Jul 18, 2016 17:22

LazyMaybe: Aug 18, 2013; oouagh

He doesn't care if you strike incapacitated demons/undead, though.

# ? Jul 18, 2016 17:26

the Orb of Zot: Jun 25, 2013; Apport: the Orb of Zot
The orb shrieks as your magic touches it!
Yoink! You pull the item towards yourself.
You see here the Orb of Zot.

Someone Awful! posted:

new Sif is Real Good for summoners/anyone who's using spells a lot but not a straight-up blaster caster

(i really like New Sif. channeling is way too piety-intense though, either that or her piety builds too slow. not sure which)

Gave it a try, splatted in Snake because it turns out that DE HP becomes absurdly horrible when you're getting literally only half the exp, and even having Summon Horrible Things castable won't save you if you get constricted by a group of naga and can't worm your way out in time.

I'm starting to wonder if the exp penalty couldn't be toned down a bit at this point (not entirely eliminated, but maybe only a 40% penalty or a 33% penalty), because so much has changed at this point that summoning just isn't as ridiculous as it used to be. As it is, it feels like pure summoner as a playstyle is incredibly difficult (and tedious as all hell to boot) to pull off in a way other playstyles aren't and you're better off picking IE and maybe diversifying into summoning later.

Or the joke option of worshiping Trog, using your book as a fireplace for piety, and then getting BiA down the road anyways.

# ? Jul 18, 2016 17:55

pathetic little tramp: Dec 12, 2005; by Hillary Clinton's assassins; Fallen Rib

the Orb of Zot posted:

Gave it a try, splatted in Snake because it turns out that DE HP becomes absurdly horrible when you're getting literally only half the exp, and even having Summon Horrible Things castable won't save you if you get constricted by a group of naga and can't worm your way out in time.

I'm starting to wonder if the exp penalty couldn't be toned down a bit at this point (not entirely eliminated, but maybe only a 40% penalty or a 33% penalty), because so much has changed at this point that summoning just isn't as ridiculous as it used to be. As it is, it feels like pure summoner as a playstyle is incredibly difficult (and tedious as all hell to boot) to pull off in a way other playstyles aren't and you're better off picking IE and maybe diversifying into summoning later.

Or the joke option of worshiping Trog, using your book as a fireplace for piety, and then getting BiA down the road anyways.

What is the summon penalty? You get 50% of all XP from things your summons kill entirely, but you get a percentage between 50 and 100 dependent on how much damage you plink off of the monster right?

# ? Jul 18, 2016 18:57

rchandra: Apr 30, 2013

pathetic little tramp posted:

TSO is also supposed to be a summoning god, in that he allows your summons to hang around longer, but he also punishes you if you strike a distracted monster, so that would make summoning a terror with him, I believe.

The halo's really nice too, your friends can use the accuracy. The distraction thing is a bit annoying but not too awful. Definitely a god for melee+summons rather than pure summoner.

# ? Jul 18, 2016 18:58

Fitzy Fitz: May 14, 2005

Well I finally got that 1.9% chance of chaos brand from a brand scroll. On my only demon blade. This will probably kill me because I can't just not use it.

e: Summoning and boots of the assassin are OP

Fitzy Fitz fucked around with this message at 22:24 on Jul 18, 2016

# ? Jul 18, 2016 20:32

the Orb of Zot: Jun 25, 2013; Apport: the Orb of Zot
The orb shrieks as your magic touches it!
Yoink! You pull the item towards yourself.
You see here the Orb of Zot.

pathetic little tramp posted:

What is the summon penalty? You get 50% of all XP from things your summons kill entirely, but you get a percentage between 50 and 100 dependent on how much damage you plink off of the monster right?

Yup. So it's made less severe if you're also doing damage yourself, which means a hybrid melee/summon playstyle isn't completely out of the question. Pure summoning can get the high-end stuff online unfathomably quickly (with a wiz ring I was casting MM with the DESu in Lair:1), but eating the full 50% penalty makes it difficult to branch out of pure summoning in a way most other playstyles don't.

Especially since summoning tends to have severe issues with enemy packs because of how important outnumbering the enemies with your summons is, so you either need to have extremely high quality summons (MM, XXX, demons, Dragon's Call if you can somehow pull off casting a level 9 spell without wizardry bonuses) or you have to do a lot of luring and breaking apart the pack one by one. And the spell level investment is huge because you need multiple summon spells to do what a single conjuration spell could do on it's own thanks to the summon cap (i.e. you could drown an enemy pack if you dump all your MP on multiple separate summons, or you could just blanket that pack in Freezing Cloud and watch them die that way faster)

# ? Jul 18, 2016 23:50

Fitzy Fitz: May 14, 2005

code:

The helpless boggart fails to defend itself.
You slice the boggart like a ripe choko!!!!!
You kill the boggart!
Okawaru accepts your kill.
A boggart comes into view.
The helpless boggart fails to defend itself.
You cut the boggart into ribbons!!!!!
You kill the boggart!
Okawaru accepts your kill.
The helpless boggart fails to defend itself.
You open the boggart like a pillowcase!!!!!
You kill the boggart!
Okawaru accepts your kill.
The helpless boggart fails to defend itself.
You open the boggart like a pillowcase!!!!!
You kill the boggart!
Okawaru accepts your kill.

Avoided some serious bullshit there.

# ? Jul 19, 2016 00:40

Decairn: Dec 1, 2007

I'm watching Krusk play recently, today he opens up his skill tab and *every single skill except Invocations (25) is at 27*, 5 million gold (Gozag), 1.6 million turns, enters Zig spams tornado and everything dies as he walks the map.

# ? Jul 19, 2016 04:13

Goffer: Apr 4, 2007; "..."

Is there an intentional OOD room in levels 11-12? I consistently keep finding a grey stone room made up of little alcoves that has fire giants and dragons and shapeshifters that can turn into gold dragons. It's awfully challenging, maybe a good thing to keep people on their toes, but it's awful just stumbling upon it sometimes.

# ? Jul 19, 2016 13:14

someone awful.: Sep 7, 2007

is it a Vaults entry room?

# ? Jul 19, 2016 14:50

Heithinn Grasida: Mar 28, 2005; ...must attack and fall upon them with a gallant bearing and a fearless heart, and, if possible, vanquish and destroy them, even though they have for armour the shells of a certain fish, that they say are harder than diamonds, and in place of swords wield trenchant blades of Damascus steel...

Goffer posted:

Is there an intentional OOD room in levels 11-12? I consistently keep finding a grey stone room made up of little alcoves that has fire giants and dragons and shapeshifters that can turn into gold dragons. It's awfully challenging, maybe a good thing to keep people on their toes, but it's awful just stumbling upon it sometimes.

Those don't show up every game, but there are a few special vaults that can appear in the later dungeon that have depths enemies. You can usually identify them and should stay well away unless you've got a strong character. The vaults entry room and the entrance to depths are guaranteed to have some nasty stuff, but there are bigger, more dangerous vaults that you can run into.

# ? Jul 19, 2016 16:05

Internet Kraken: Apr 24, 2010; slightly amused

Goffer posted:

Is there an intentional OOD room in levels 11-12? I consistently keep finding a grey stone room made up of little alcoves that has fire giants and dragons and shapeshifters that can turn into gold dragons. It's awfully challenging, maybe a good thing to keep people on their toes, but it's awful just stumbling upon it sometimes.

Those are usually blocked by runed doors.

# ? Jul 19, 2016 18:29

Roctavian: Feb 23, 2011

code:

Sonja appears confused.
 Sonja unwields an uncursed enchanted blowgun.
 Sonja wields an uncursed short sword of distortion.
 Its appearance distorts for a moment. Sonja misses you. You riposte.
 You catch the helpless Sonja completely off-guard!
 You slice Sonja!!
 You kill Sonja!

I had nothing to do with this whole sequence of events, I was just attacking the tengu conjuror that meph'd Sonja.

# ? Jul 19, 2016 20:41

resistentialism: Aug 13, 2007

Does TSO get mad at you if you riposte a confused monster for a stab?

# ? Jul 19, 2016 22:26

cheetah7071: Oct 20, 2010; honk honk; College Slice

Yred with an amulet of faith is gross. I just tabbed through the Snake:4 vault by hitting a-a every few enemies.

# ? Jul 19, 2016 22:53

Fitzy Fitz: May 14, 2005

How should I decide between higher-level summons?

MM, greater demon, hydra, haunt, and malign gateway are all level 7. And then horrible things is just one more spell point at 8..

Fitzy Fitz fucked around with this message at 23:00 on Jul 19, 2016

# ? Jul 19, 2016 22:55

Sage Grimm: Feb 18, 2013; Let's go explorin' little dude!

Greater Demon is a carry-over from ancient times and is annoyingly RNG based with them going hostile before being abjured normally. Can also be summoned fully hostile from the start! Bad choice if you're trying to decrease RNG influence on your character.

Haunt is the chaff form of the level 7 spells. You can't prep ahead of time because it requires a hostile target. Not bad, but the cross-class into Necromancy can be an issue (good gods, more experience to train for decent failure rates).

Monstrous Menagerie and Hydra are about the same. The former is longer lasting but less powerful and RNGy for type and the latter is the inverse.

Malign Gateway is single cast but the effects are strong. Also the only? summon that can kill while out of LOS from you. Cross-classed with Translocations with that caveat. I like it the best of the level 7 summons.

# ? Jul 19, 2016 23:30

cheetah7071: Oct 20, 2010; honk honk; College Slice

quote:

1717064 cheetah7071 the Merfolkian Porcupine (level 27, 249/249 HPs)
Began as a Merfolk Gladiator on July 19, 2016.
Was the Champion of Yredelemnul.
Escaped with the Orb
... and 3 runes!

The game lasted 03:44:22 (68263 turns).

Yred is good

# ? Jul 20, 2016 00:51

LazyMaybe: Aug 18, 2013; oouagh

Ru_Reasons.png

# ? Jul 20, 2016 01:17

Can Of Worms: Sep 4, 2011; That's not how the Triangle Attack works...

Sage Grimm posted:

Haunt is the chaff form of the level 7 spells. You can't prep ahead of time because it requires a hostile target. Not bad, but the cross-class into Necromancy can be an issue (good gods, more experience to train for decent failure rates).

Note that with the changes to how speed draining works (the slowing effect from wraiths and death scarabs) it's also a source of irresistible slowing.

# ? Jul 20, 2016 02:09

Darox: Nov 10, 2012

Heithinn Grasida posted:

Those don't show up every game, but there are a few special vaults that can appear in the later dungeon that have depths enemies. You can usually identify them and should stay well away unless you've got a strong character. The vaults entry room and the entrance to depths are guaranteed to have some nasty stuff, but there are bigger, more dangerous vaults that you can run into.

Those vaults can show up earlier and have unseen horrors/centaur warriors/hill giants etc instead.

Autoexploring into the vault that is a giant open area filled with + shaped blocks and getting swarmed by multiple unseen horrors is a fun experience.

# ? Jul 20, 2016 02:34

LazyMaybe: Aug 18, 2013; oouagh

http://crawl.berotato.org/crawl/morgue//Shard1697/morgue-Shard1697-20160720-041521.txt

code:

 Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.19-a0-1007-g133f65f (webtiles) character file.

14066279 Shard1697 the Skullcrusher (level 27, 249/249 HPs)
             Began as a Formicid Fighter on July 19, 2016.
             Was the Champion of Ru.
             Escaped with the Orb
             ... and 15 runes on July 20, 2016!
             
             The game lasted 05:19:41 (113537 turns).

Shard1697 the Skullcrusher (Formicid Fighter)     Turns: 113537, Time: 05:19:42

Health: 249/249    AC: 46    Str: 35 (36) XL:     27
Magic:  27/27      EV: 36    Int:  5      God:    Ru [******]
Gold:   10024      SH: 39    Dex: 20      Spells: 0 memorised, 26 levels left

rFire  + . .      SeeInvis +    a - +10 dark maul {crush}
rCold  + + .      Gourm    .    p - +8 gold dragon armour
rNeg   + + .      Faith    .    y - +8 large shield
rPois  +          Spirit   .    (helmet unavailable)
rElec  +          Dismiss  .    c - +1 cloak of Starlight {rElec rC+ EV+4 Stlth--}
rCorr  +          Reflect  .    Q - +2 pair of gloves {Str+3}
SustAt .          Harm     .    r - +2 pair of boots {run}
MR     +++++      Clarity  +    K - amulet of the Four Winds {rN+ MR+++ Clar}
Stlth  ..........               f - ring of Shaolin {EV+8}
                                F - ring "Taolaimp" {rCorr rN+ MP+9 Str+4 Dex+4}

@: mighty, quick, almost entirely resistant to hostile enchantments, extremely
unstealthy
A: permanent stasis, dig shafts and tunnels, four strong arms, antennae 3, large
bone plates 1, rough black scales 1, blurry vision 1, clumsy 1, deformed body,
deterioration 1, dopey 2, low mp 2, no stealth, inability to use devices, no air
magic, no necromancy magic, no translocations magic, reduced EV 1, MP-powered
wands, unskilled 1
a: Dig, Shaft Self, Draw Out Power, Power Leap, Apocalypse, Renounce Religion
0: Orb of Zot
}: 15/15 runes: barnacled, slimy, silver, golden, iron, obsidian, icy, bone,
abyssal, demonic, glowing, magical, fiery, dark, gossamer

This is maybe the single strongest melee-focused character I've ever had. You might not think that it would be a good idea to sacrifice both Stealth and Evocations on a formicid, but, well...

...being able to 1-shot just about everything I ran into was pretty drat good. Dark Maul is legitimately really nice if you play around it, and being able to use both it and a large shield at once(and murderhole just about whenever) is very powerful. Crushed my way through all of extended with very few problems.

# ? Jul 20, 2016 12:07

Fitzy Fitz: May 14, 2005

code:

 Y - the +0 hat of Too Many Cooks (worn) {+Inv rF++ Dex-3 Slay+3}

# ? Jul 20, 2016 17:55

Sage Grimm: Feb 18, 2013; Let's go explorin' little dude!

Fun fact, that one predated the youtube video of the same name IIRC.

# ? Jul 20, 2016 18:29

mdct: Sep 2, 2011; Tingle tingle kooloo limpah.
These are my magic words.
Don't steal them.

The phrase predates the youtube video pretty hard, so it's not surprising.

# ? Jul 20, 2016 19:48

cheetah7071: Oct 20, 2010; honk honk; College Slice

How much long blade skill do I need before a triple sword is better than a scimitar?

Acquirement went my way for once

e: scimitar is +0 unbranded, triple sword is +1 of elec

# ? Jul 20, 2016 20:05

StringOfLetters: Apr 2, 2007; What?

cheetah7071 posted:

How much long blade skill do I need before a triple sword is better than a scimitar?

Acquirement went my way for once

e: scimitar is +0 unbranded, triple sword is +1 of elec

In this case, probably immediately.

I had a thing recently where my demonspawn guy with a triple sword of draining got teleported next to four ogres in a small room. One turn later, they all died to ripostes, room was painted red. Gibs and blood splatters on exceptional overkills are the best feature ever included with this game. Even on ascii, the little red %'s give it so much life.

# ? Jul 20, 2016 20:35

mdct: Sep 2, 2011; Tingle tingle kooloo limpah.
These are my magic words.
Don't steal them.

cheetah7071 posted:

How much long blade skill do I need before a triple sword is better than a scimitar?

Acquirement went my way for once

e: scimitar is +0 unbranded, triple sword is +1 of elec

So long as you're not stupid with it, the triple sword is probably worth using immediately. It's completely safe at 18 skill, since that's when it's reduced to 1.0.

# ? Jul 20, 2016 20:39

cheetah7071: Oct 20, 2010; honk honk; College Slice

I ended up switching at skill 20 and regretted it when it was massive overkill, which means it would have been minor overkill even before then.

This character probably has some of the best luck I've ever seen so I can't wait to die.

e: come watch!

ee: actually I'm dead, to a combination of bad play and extremely unlucky teleports

cheetah7071 fucked around with this message at 21:28 on Jul 20, 2016

# ? Jul 20, 2016 21:08

FulsomFrank: Sep 11, 2005; Hard on for love

cheetah7071 posted:

I ended up switching at skill 20 and regretted it when it was massive overkill, which means it would have been minor overkill even before then.

This character probably has some of the best luck I've ever seen so I can't wait to die.

e: come watch! http://crawl.akrasiac.org:8080/#watch-cheetah7071

aaaaand dead.

drat, another senseless swamp related fatality.

# ? Jul 20, 2016 21:28

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# ? Jun 11, 2024 06:06

cheetah7071: Oct 20, 2010; honk honk; College Slice

FulsomFrank posted:

aaaaand dead.

drat, another senseless swamp related fatality.

Yeah I should have just left to go somewhere else as soon as saw the lernean hydra but I decided to go see if I could ninja the rune, and then got caught in a spiral of teleports where good old Lerny was always between me and the stairs.

# ? Jul 20, 2016 21:29

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