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RubberLuffy posted:The easiest explanation is the something happens, which will have an effect, but KC skips the event but keeps the result. So it still happens, just no one sees the event play out. That's not a very easy explanation, it's pretty abstract and weird. Also, doesn't Diavolo use it to not get shot or otherwise dodge attacks? If the power worked like that, he wouldn't be able to do that. The thing I found helped get my head around is it would look a lot like lag in a video game. Everything just skips ahead a couple seconds and you're really disoriented and that guy you thought you shot is standing way over there. That's not quite how it works, but it gives me an image to give grounding to the idea of skipping time.
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Jul 20, 2016 07:15
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Moltrey posted:I like that Araki takes the Multiple Personality trope media so loving loves to do and says "Actually, it's two souls in one body and also they physically morph into each other regardless of age and bone structure" or something Diavolo7.
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Jul 20, 2016 07:18
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like most things in jojo, doppio turning into diavolo and vice versa is just A Thing and it works
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Jul 20, 2016 07:27
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alcharagia posted:Diavolo7. It's basically this, but with just Doppio and Diavolo I mean, Josefumi and Kira are doing the same thing right now, just they were forced into one body and it seems like their souls combined instead of maintaining a separate relationship while Doppio and Diavolo have always been two distinct dudes hiding in the same body. Really the confusing stuff I'm looking forward to the translation *hopefully* fixing is the end of part 5 from silver chariot requiem onwards because that is the point where I just get confused about what is going on or why it is going on because everything is happening so much Like, seriously, Polnareff comes up with a tactic to fight Diavolo, Polnareff stabs his stand, Silver Chariot Requiem puts everybody to sleep and switches their souls around to other bodies, all of the stand users are powered up by the body switching, silver chariot requiem holds on to the arrow, they have to get it back before diavolo does, bruno is in diavolo's body for a bit I think, doppio is in bruno's dying body, giorno gets murdered but not really because it was narancia in giorno's body so really narancia just gets loving murdered out of nowhere because the time skips were erasing his screams so nobody even noticed, the people without stands started having demons or aliens or something coming out of them because of silver chariot requiem switching their souls around, eventually giorno gets the arrow and stabs gold experience with it and gold experience goes requiem and imbues diavolo with so much life that he is left infinitely dying in a universe that has determined through fate that he should be dead and so it keeps placing his soul into different bodies of things near death in order to allow him to die but his infinite life prevents him from dying, only experiencing the excruciating pain of infinite death for eternity and then rolling stone happens I guess FirstAidKite fucked around with this message at 07:36 on Jul 20, 2016 |
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Jul 20, 2016 07:31
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hoobajoo posted:That's not a very easy explanation, it's pretty abstract and weird. Also, doesn't Diavolo use it to not get shot or otherwise dodge attacks? If the power worked like that, he wouldn't be able to do that. Well Epitaph I guess let's him see a few seconds into the future, so if he combines the two, he could easily dodge bullets and attacks.
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Jul 20, 2016 07:35
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I thought that the latest retranslated part showed that King Crimson's power is only useful for confusing people and nothing else. The effect and cause all still happen, but it gives people like short-term, very specific amnesia. Also it can see the future because of Epitaph. The other big thing is what we've always known, which is that King Crimson is hella strong and that alone makes it really dangerous.
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Jul 20, 2016 07:38
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Oh no, I totally agree, I really like Doppio and Diavolo for Araki taking the bones of a tired cliche and making it some weird magic thing that is never explored any deeper or brought back, he just does it cause it's cool and a fun twist when you realize Doppio IS Diavolo and rooting for him versus Metallica was NOT what you should have been doing if you're also rooting for Bruno's gang
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Jul 20, 2016 07:41
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The legend of "King Crimson!?!?! How DOES it work????" leads people to probably question their understanding when in actual fact it's just kinda simple.
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Jul 20, 2016 07:46
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Begemot posted:I thought that the latest retranslated part showed that King Crimson's power is only useful for confusing people and nothing else. The effect and cause all still happen, but it gives people like short-term, very specific amnesia. Also it can see the future because of Epitaph. That's super weird to hear, after years of thinking KC could alter/negate causality in some way, that I might have thought that just because of the bad translation. It seems a little underwhelming if the ability to essentially delete chunks of TIME ITSELF is only good for disorienting people.
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Jul 20, 2016 07:48
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I don't claim to know how King Crimson works and I'm better for it. The scans I had when I first read Part 5 had three different like .rtf files included through the last third each trying to explain how King Crimson worked and all of them were different. Basically imagine four Diavolos getting shot at on the edge of a cliff, King Crimson works the same way
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Jul 20, 2016 07:49
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I really like that Diavolo has some weird nonsense to him that is never explained. Like not just Doppio, but all sorts of things about his past. His whole deal is being a mystery shadow mafia man who wants to erase his past, and I think it works that whenever Araki goes into his character or his history it has a bunch of things that don't add up or aren't explained. It fits his whole shtick.
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Jul 20, 2016 07:51
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hoobajoo posted:That's super weird to hear, after years of thinking KC could alter/negate causality in some way, that I might have thought that just because of the bad translation. It seems a little underwhelming if the ability to essentially delete chunks of TIME ITSELF is only good for disorienting people. I kinda love it because it's really fitting. At the end of the day, Diavolo relies on mindgames in order to maintain his organization. He keeps everyone in terror by doing things like cutting apart those guys from La Squarda, and by remaining a completely anonymous boogeyman. When he does take action, he keeps people off balance by messing with their perceptions, but in the end he's just a thug. He's all about maintaining his 「image」 of being mysterious, so his stand is all about denying information to people to his advantage. And then tearing them limb from limb because he's also a crime boss.
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Jul 20, 2016 07:55
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Moltrey posted:I don't claim to know how King Crimson works and I'm better for it. The scans I had when I first read Part 5 had three different like .rtf files included through the last third each trying to explain how King Crimson worked and all of them were different. I think the bad translation also had a page where it was just a handful of people explaining what they thought. I feel like I get KC though it may be that it's actually a bit simpler still than I'd imagined it. I'm actually holding off on reading current chapters starting now so I can just do a full re-read a little later.
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Jul 20, 2016 07:56
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Moltrey posted:Oh no, I totally agree, I really like Doppio and Diavolo for Araki taking the bones of a tired cliche and making it some weird magic thing that is never explored any deeper or brought back, he just does it cause it's cool and a fun twist when you realize Doppio IS Diavolo and rooting for him versus Metallica was NOT what you should have been doing if you're also rooting for Bruno's gang I was rooting for Risotto 
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Jul 20, 2016 08:01
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Cute little Doppio > James Hetfielduh
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Jul 20, 2016 08:05
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I wish Risotto had been able to stick around even if his group had been attempting to murder the main cast up until that point even if they both had the ultimate goal of killing the boss (albeit with different goals in mind surely once they usurped him) I remember when I first went into reading part 5 and I was kind of confused though. I knew a bunch of names and characters but not about what actually happens in it so for whatever reason I thought that they were going to find out that the boss was Polnareff and that the head of La Squadra was Diavolo attempting to usurp him or something
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Jul 20, 2016 08:13
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I thought Steel Ball Run would be a Formula 1 styled car race, like neon lights and all that kinda jazz.
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Jul 20, 2016 08:26
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i feel like the new translation will make me enjoy vento aureo more no matter what, because it already has with what's come out
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Jul 20, 2016 08:28
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Josuke Higashikata posted:I thought Steel Ball Run would be a Formula 1 styled car race, like neon lights and all that kinda jazz. I never thought of that before but drat I really want a cyberpunk JoJo.
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Jul 20, 2016 08:34
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i would want a theoretical part 9 to star the twin kids of gappy, one like giorno and the other like jolyne, in a vaguely futuristic setting of some sort, tbh
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Jul 20, 2016 08:37
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My working theory on King Crimson is this: When Diavolo activates King Crimson, he sees the future movements of people for 10+x seconds into the future. He can select any point within this time frame to skip to, and that causes everything in the world to teleport into the position and state they would be at that point. Only Diavolo can freely control his actions during this timeframe, and nobody else realizes they've been teleported, so it's also the perfect way for Diavolo to set up an attack that's just about impossible to react to. Diavolo doesn't seem to be able to directly interact with anything during his time skip, otherwise he'd be straight up unstoppable, rather than simply nigh-unstoppable. For the Metallica fight, he activates KC right before the bullets hit him, and erases the time interval where the bullets are passing through him, so the bullets get "teleported" through him without actually harming him. The main issue is it doesn't explain how Diavolo can attack Trish and Narancia without anyone noticing.
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Jul 20, 2016 08:54
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Daxing Dan posted:The main issue is it doesn't explain how Diavolo can attack Trish and Narancia without anyone noticing. Sure it does He did it while nobody was looking, and then he just kept erasing time in Narancia's case til he was dead
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Jul 20, 2016 08:57
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alcharagia posted:Diavolo7. In the name of Araki.
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Jul 20, 2016 10:12
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Josuke Higashikata posted:It's August at the very, very earliest. PotC would probably be out of cinemas by then, definitely not as packed and running prize lotteries as it was then. Yeah, I figured, but it's close enough for me.
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Jul 20, 2016 10:44
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Okay, I guess that does work.Begemot posted:I thought that the latest retranslated part showed that King Crimson's power is only useful for confusing people and nothing else. While I'm just as glad as everyone else that people are finally understanding how King Crimson works, statements like these always remind me of something:  Way to jinx it, Buccellati.
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Jul 20, 2016 11:36
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I still don't understand a drat thing about Diavolo's backstory beyond "two souls" thing.
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Jul 20, 2016 11:54
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Josuke Higashikata posted:Cute little Doppio > James Hetfielduh Well yeah, I mean, in Doppio's case, THERE'S SOMEONE ELSE CONTROLLING ME
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Jul 20, 2016 11:59
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His power is only good for confusing folk. The ability to punch a hole in a sucker is always useful.
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Jul 20, 2016 12:01
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Funky Valentine posted:I still don't understand a drat thing about Diavolo's backstory beyond "two souls" thing. I don't think anyone understands his backstory. I'm not even sure we're supposed to.
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Jul 20, 2016 12:04
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SyntheticPolygon posted:I don't think anyone understands his backstory. I'm not even sure we're supposed to. Yeah, I don't think anything about his backstory is supposed to make any sense. It is as if he has successfully erased most of his past already and we're only left with a few pieces that don't add up to anything or outright contradict each other, aka exactly what he wanted, with the only major piece left being Trish
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Jul 20, 2016 12:17
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Okuyasu Nijimura posted:There's like one person in this thread who claims to legitimately like Dragon's Dream, right? It's me
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Jul 20, 2016 13:05
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Araki updated this panel in the volume to give Hato's stand (still haven't got 100% confirmation on the name even though it's next to confirmed.) original  He gave it the H shaped ears it has in Chapter 55, basically. Quite interesting because he didn't fix Love Love Deluxe in the volume.
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Jul 20, 2016 13:32
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Josuke Higashikata posted:Quite interesting because he didn't fix Love Love Deluxe in the volume. What was wrong with Love Love Deluxe? Aurora posted:It's me Everybody who says the dragon's dream fight is bad should give it a reread. I did and I've decided it is actually a good fight and not a bad one and I'm not sure why I ever thought it was a bad fight. Maybe I was just speeding through stone ocean too quickly so I was having trouble committing all of it to memory or something
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Jul 20, 2016 13:40
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Dragon's Dream actively fucks with the user and also makes him drink his own piss
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Jul 20, 2016 13:42
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FirstAidKite posted:What was wrong with Love Love Deluxe?   The mouth, specifically, so it'd be a very easy fix too considering her face layout.
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Jul 20, 2016 13:48
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He drank piss because he was a Mansonoid cult leader
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Jul 20, 2016 13:53
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Yeah like the very first thing we learn about Diavolo's backstory chronologically is that his mother was pregnant with him for two years and gave birth to him while she was in all female prison while having zero idea who the father could be so yeah nothing about him is meant to make much of any sense. A real international man of mystery here.
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Jul 20, 2016 13:54
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I like Dragon's Dream as a concept, but reading Stone Ocean as fast as I could did that fight no favors.
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Jul 20, 2016 14:11
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Begemot posted:I thought that the latest retranslated part showed that King Crimson's power is only useful for confusing people and nothing else. The effect and cause all still happen, but it gives people like short-term, very specific amnesia. Also it can see the future because of Epitaph. Don't we see gunshots phase through him because of his power? He can't just be confusing people, since he's invincible during the ten seconds.
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Jul 20, 2016 15:11
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His power to punch through people enhances his power to disorient them. His power to disorient people enhances his power to punch through them. It's like a Simon and Garfunkel duet. Seriously speaking, though, even without the super strength, Diavolo could just as easily erase the moment your attack hit him, and then shoot you in the back of the head before you can even process what happened. King Crimson provides an offense and defense that's so strong, you're probably going to die long before you can figure out how to work around it. Please show the paranoid man some respect.
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Jul 20, 2016 15:55
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