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Apparently I'm not the only one of my former coworkers at reddit getting therapy for it. Yaaaaaaaay 
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Jul 22, 2016 01:51
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Oh do tell 
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Jul 22, 2016 03:00
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This is a forgiving and severely understated article
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Jul 22, 2016 03:35
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Ouch. Looks like a good link for the D&D unicorns thread.
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Jul 22, 2016 04:27
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That article is interesting but hard to evaluate. It feels like the writer is steeped in SV tech-industry privilege, where "losing your job" could mean being hired for $200k total comp by a rival San Francisco company. Or, god forbid, only $100k plus equity. Why, you're a starving artist at that level! A "regular" American business with a high profile that fired/laid-off a large number of employees from under-represented groups would be in a world of poo poo politically due to making vulnerable people destitute. I can sympathize with the ex-Reddit employees because I'm also an overpaid computer-person in an expensive metro area who wants a "meaningful" job, but a lot of US workers would laugh in their face for claiming PTSD over a job as nice as working at Reddit.
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Jul 22, 2016 05:46
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How could they have decided to get PTSD? Didn't they know there are kids starving in Africa?
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Jul 22, 2016 06:20
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Progressive JPEG posted:How could they have decided to get PTSD? Didn't they know there are kids starving in Africa? I was extremely depressed over a PhD program before quitting Science for programming, and while that experience was real to me and meaningful at the time I will always feel shame due to how I let it effect others. Giving up on "overwhelming" work, bailing on long-term programs, pushing work onto the others that didn't/couldn't leave... It was a profoundly narcissistic period where everything I thought or said had to be connected to how sad I was. It's embarrassing now and the best that can be said was the pay was low for me and everyone involved. If I had been making enough to support a family while living in an amazing city and working at a company with awesome social capital before leaving then it would at least feel awkward to be used as a statistic on downtrodden people. Analytic Engine fucked around with this message at 15:35 on Jul 22, 2016 |
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Jul 22, 2016 06:49
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Analytic Engine posted:I can sympathize with the ex-Reddit employees because I'm also an overpaid computer-person in an expensive metro area who wants a "meaningful" job, but a lot of US workers would laugh in their face for claiming PTSD over a job as nice as working at Reddit. The thing to realize about depression is that cause and depth of someone else's depression can't really be correlated with the cause and depth of your own. Tons of workers have it hard. but in my career I've been through a couple of things, including but not limited to (and most of these didn't happen at Reddit): Boss repeatedly shaming me in front of others within the company for an unattainable deadline they set, me suggesting five new projects of strategic value to switch off something I really hated doing - and denied the opportunity to switch off as each was built, hired-for, and proven successful by others, accidental firing (yes, really), narcissistic coworker(s), someone who didn't like me writing humiliating lies about me to a couple thousand people, and a possible case of gender discrimination (which is loving bizarre given that I'm a cis half-white/half-asian male privileged with a good education). gently caress man, "a job as nice as working at Reddit." I love Reddit, I truly do, and met several of the best people I know there (nearly all fired/left by now), but at some point there's more dignity in drinking sewage. Any job that asks you to give so much of yourself had better reward you handsomely for it. If you have a cushy high-paying programming job that makes you feel like poo poo, you deserve to tell yourself you're not happy and find something better. The worst thing you can do in that situation is to deny your sadness with "but other people have it worse and aren't as sad as I am". Doctor w-rw-rw- fucked around with this message at 08:14 on Jul 22, 2016 |
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Jul 22, 2016 08:02
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Doctor w-rw-rw- posted:The thing to realize about depression is that cause and depth of someone else's depression can't really be correlated with the cause and depth of your own. Tons of workers have it hard. but in my career I've been through a couple of things, including but not limited to (and most of these didn't happen at Reddit): imo these sound like the trappings of a sensitive man-boy which is kind of appropriate given reddit's involvement in the story (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jul 22, 2016 11:44
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Doctor w-rw-rw- posted:Boss repeatedly shaming me in front of others within the company for an unattainable deadline they set, me suggesting five new projects of strategic value to switch off something I really hated doing - and denied the opportunity to switch off as each was built, hired-for, and proven successful by others, accidental firing (yes, really), narcissistic coworker(s), someone who didn't like me writing humiliating lies about me to a couple thousand people, and a possible case of gender discrimination (which is loving bizarre given that I'm a cis half-white/half-asian male privileged with a good education). That's all really lovely and I hope better things are on the horizon for you
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Jul 22, 2016 12:00
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Blinkz0rz posted:imo these sound like the trappings of a sensitive man-boy which is kind of appropriate given reddit's involvement in the story Jesus, dude, if that's a man-boy then you're pre-foetal.
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Jul 22, 2016 14:18
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Doctor w-rw-rw- posted:Sad stuff Sorry you got treated like poo poo. No one should have to take that and I can understand you can be mentally affected by that. Hope you all the best. Money is nice but it's not worth getting depressed over. Blinkz0rz posted:Insensitive stuff Wow not sure what happened here but that was really uncalled for.
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Jul 22, 2016 14:45
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rt4 posted:That's all really lovely and I hope better things are on the horizon for you Blinkz0rz posted:imo these sound like the trappings of a sensitive man-boy which is kind of appropriate given reddit's involvement in the story AskYourself posted:Money is nice but it's not worth getting depressed over.
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Jul 22, 2016 15:45
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More generally, it's worth realizing that just because there are starving kids in Africa (not to mention starving kids in your hometown), doesn't mean your own life experiences are somehow invalid. Dealing with a lovely work environment sucks pretty much no matter how well-compensated you are for it. And while it's helpful to maintain a sense of perspective, a sense of perspective can't fix the stressors in your life or make them go away.
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Jul 22, 2016 17:05
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Doctor w-rw-rw- posted:One of the nice things about having worked at reddit: I've seen worse for longer from people more coherent than you. Good try. Hah! Truthfully, I wasn't trying to make you feel bad or insult you. My point was that your list of grievances are things that happen as a consequence of living and working in the world. It's ok that your experiences have made you feel depressed and I'm not trying to minimize your feelings, but there's something to be said for trying to be less sensitive at work. Case in point, a boss shaming you over a deadline can happen. It's not a huge deal, you just take them aside after and talk to them. Having to work on something you don't like is part of a job and the reason you get paid. The accidental firing and being harassed at work I'll give you, but burning out over this sort of thing is pretty childish and if you're still in your 20s, the rest of your working life is going to be pretty awful.
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Jul 22, 2016 17:40
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Blinkz0rz posted:Truthfully, I wasn't trying to make you feel bad or insult you. My point was that your list of grievances are things that happen as a consequence of living and working in the world. It's ok that your experiences have made you feel depressed and I'm not trying to minimize your feelings, but there's something to be said for trying to be less sensitive at work. This kind of poo poo shouldn't be acceptable and this is kind of attitude is why it's not taken seriously.
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Jul 22, 2016 17:49
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I do not believe public shaming by a boss should be considered normal, that's just being hostile and yes there are many bosses with that kind of management style in the world. I personally don't play enter that dynamic anymore but when I was younger was a little different. It's probably most frequent with inexperience worker who don't stand for themselves.
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Jul 22, 2016 18:37
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If you've never blown a deadline, rightly or wrongly, and been chastised by your boss for it you should be posting in the Newbie Programmer thread.
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Jul 22, 2016 18:40
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Blinkz0rz posted:If you've never blown a deadline, rightly or wrongly, and been chastised by your boss for it you should be posting in the Newbie Programmer thread. On the one hand, you can have the boss that says "hey BlinkzOrz, we need to have a little chat in my office" and then figuring out a) what happened, b) why it happened, and c) how to keep it happening again. On the other hand, you can have the boss that, at the weekly team meeting, goes "BlinkzOrz, what the gently caress, you hosed up and let the entire team down. I don't want to see anyone else doing what this shitheel is doing."
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Jul 22, 2016 18:45
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I had a coworker that saw me reading YOSPOS with its color scheme on my phone and started calling me "Cyberpunk Sam."
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Jul 22, 2016 18:46
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Blinkz0rz posted:Case in point, a boss shaming you over a deadline can happen. It's not a huge deal, you just take them aside after and talk to them. Yeah, I'm sure the guy who engineered failure and used it to publicly humiliate someone is going to be totally reasonable in a 1:1 situation. There's no way they'll leverage that moment of vulnerability to cause further damage.
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Jul 22, 2016 19:01
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:On the one hand, you can have the boss that says "hey BlinkzOrz, we need to have a little chat in my office" and then figuring out a) what happened, b) why it happened, and c) how to keep it happening again. On the other hand, you can have the boss that, at the weekly team meeting, goes "BlinkzOrz, what the gently caress, you hosed up and let the entire team down. I don't want to see anyone else doing what this shitheel is doing." Clearly one is an example of poor management but I'm sorry, unless that's the straw that broke the camel's back, it's not something to get worked up over and certainly not a reason to get burned out at work. I've noticed that in software there's a lot of really thin-skinned people and it makes me sad.
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Jul 22, 2016 19:09
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Blinkz0rz posted:I've noticed that in software there's a lot of really thin-skinned people and it makes me sad.
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Jul 22, 2016 19:13
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JawnV6 posted:I've noticed there's a lot of people thrust into management positions without proper training and are happy to perpetuate lovely ineffective processes while hiding behind similar language. To each their own. Can't it be both?
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Jul 22, 2016 19:14
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Blinkz0rz posted:Can't it be both? Can't both be unacceptable?
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Jul 22, 2016 19:17
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Of course but at the end of the day is it worth it to take massive offense and burn out of a job because your manager was a dick? I submit: "no it is not."
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Jul 22, 2016 19:20
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Blinkz0rz posted:Clearly one is an example of poor management but I'm sorry, unless that's the straw that broke the camel's back, it's not something to get worked up over and certainly not a reason to get burned out at work. What are you implying here? Doctor w-rw-rw- have listed a series of abusive behavior directed at them throughout their career. They are willing to talk about it in an open and frank manner, and deal with how it has effected them mentally. This is 'thin-skinned' and somehow worse to you than people in industries where they have to hide this poo poo because otherwise they'd lose their jobs? Where that sort of attitude has allowed even worse offenses like rape to run rampant because people are so used to burying the poo poo?
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Jul 22, 2016 19:21
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Blinkz0rz posted:Truthfully, I wasn't trying to make you feel bad or insult you. My point was that your list of grievances are things that happen as a consequence of living and working in the world. It's ok that your experiences have made you feel depressed and I'm not trying to minimize your feelings, but there's something to be said for trying to be less sensitive at work. There's something to be said for considering that you might not always see the whole picture. For context, said boss, knowing that I had no option of quitting due to family obligations, told me when I went to him and consulted him about feeling suicidal on some really bad days (I was working ~16 hours a day sometimes, on poo poo I hated) that I should learn to deal with it or leave the company. I also found out some time later that one of the VPs had fought for the projects I suggested and also to put me on them, but I was blocked. So yeah, I did take him aside and try to address these problems. I walked away from that job eventually after a nervous breakdown with a permanent stress-triggered health problem that affects me every day, even after I've mostly bounced back. I don't think I'm childish so much as unwilling to initially tell a full story, because it's also the case that the more specific I get the more identifiable the actors are in the situation, which makes it harder to be honest about my side of the situation, because I only see my own point of view. Note the deliberate ambiguity over what happened at my previous job and what happened before. I'm also trying to distill this into concrete lessons I can take away from it, rather than thinking of revenge, which is poison.
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Jul 22, 2016 20:02
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Seriously dude. Why would you ever talk about this:Doctor w-rw-rw- posted:I went to him and consulted him about feeling suicidal on some really bad days with your boss. Jesus Christ man, I was wrong, you definitely should take a break and get your mind right.
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Jul 22, 2016 20:20
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Blinkz0rz posted:Of course but at the end of the day is it worth it to take massive offense and burn out of a job because your manager was a dick? I submit: "no it is not." Burn out no. Quit on the spot and make the reason crystal clear in any exit interview yes. In pretty much every case a developer is better off getting a new job anyway. And the company needs the trained developer more than the developer needs that job.
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Jul 22, 2016 20:49
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Blinkz0rz posted:Seriously dude. Why would you ever talk about this: That was quite some time ago. I'm no longer in such a bad place, because I did take time off to reset. This was back when I trusted management to care about employee well-being. I got more cynical.
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Jul 22, 2016 21:02
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I've never had a boss be a dick to me or chastise me over a fuckup, and it's not because I've never hosed up.
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Jul 22, 2016 22:54
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Plorkyeran posted:I've never had a boss be a dick to me or chastise me over a fuckup, and it's not because I've never hosed up. There are two people on my list of individuals I'll never work with again. One is an incompetent that stole code and claimed trivial problems weren't solvable. The other is an old boss who at one point called me at 3AM Saturday (drunk) because a coworker broke the build after I went home on Friday (and proceeded to threaten me after pointing out the commit that caused the issue because he liked said coworker). I wasn't on-call. Among other transgressions. So I'm glad you've been lucky I guess.
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Jul 22, 2016 23:36
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All of my past and current bosses in the last decade I've had been comfortable talking to them about why I'm not feeling well and most would have empathized and helped me out of it. It is in their best interest to have happy and productive workers after all. The style of management Blinkz0rz seem to be talking about I would consider normal in the army or at the fastfood chain, but absolutely weird and unacceptable in the software industry, where you pay people for what's in their head rather than how they move their muscle.
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Jul 23, 2016 00:23
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Blinkz0rz posted:imo these sound like the trappings of a sensitive man-boy which is kind of appropriate given reddit's involvement in the story Attitude like these are why programmers have such a bad social reputation. For my own content, I left my last job partly because my manager kept alternately telling me I wasn't assertive enough and then telling me I was too aggressive, and it really offended me. (Also all the senior engineers were jumping ship and they laid off 15% of their staff a month after.) Leaving a job for stuff like that is perfectly acceptable Pollyanna fucked around with this message at 03:31 on Jul 23, 2016 |
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Jul 23, 2016 03:23
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I quit a job 3 months ago because they started a 2-month construction project on the building around our offices (above/below, in a 3-story building with me on the 2nd floor) and wouldn't let us work from home during the noise. After the third week of jackhammer and circular saw duets I said gently caress it. Now I work from home (100% remote) and make 10k more/year because someone uses one of my projects that my 2nd previous company opensourced (I did it on the clock for them when I worked there and still vaguely maintain it on github, it's just kind of my pet project at this point even though they hold the copyright). It's so easy to change jobs and be picky enough to get a decent one in the current market for programmers, it doesn't make sense to stay in abusive or boring positions.
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Jul 23, 2016 04:43
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AskYourself posted:All of my past and current bosses in the last decade I've had been comfortable talking to them about why I'm not feeling well and most would have empathized and helped me out of it. There are plenty of other industries that pay people for what's in their head rather than how they move their muscle. Software is the only one I've ever seen that coddles its employees to such a degree. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy the perks, but I've noticed that there's a soft of a cult of the man-boy that's pervasive that I really detest. Pollyanna posted:Attitude like these are why programmers have such a bad social reputation. I would absolutely agree that over-sharing, over-sensitive, emotionally stunted man-boys and their whining gives programmers a bad social reputation.
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Jul 23, 2016 10:51
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Blinkz0rz posted:There are plenty of other industries that pay people for what's in their head rather than how they move their muscle. Software is the only one I've ever seen that coddles its employees to such a degree. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy the perks, but I've noticed that there's a soft of a cult of the man-boy that's pervasive that I really detest. I was under the impression that the un-sharing, insensitive, emotionally stunted assholes and their abrasiveness gave programmers a bad social reputation. God forbid people care about each other or trust people who they spend 8+/24 around with their problems. I'm sorry you've ever had to listen to someone share their feelings. Have you talked to your therapist about why this bothers you?
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Jul 23, 2016 11:14
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Blinkz0rz posted:There are plenty of other industries that pay people for what's in their head rather than how they move their muscle. Software is the only one I've ever seen that coddles its employees to such a degree. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy the perks, but I've noticed that there's a soft of a cult of the man-boy that's pervasive that I really detest. Yeah, a real man does whatever the boss says for whatever the boss is willing to pay and he is grateful for it! But seriously, we would never have won the 40 hour work week if assholes like you had anything to say about it.
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Jul 23, 2016 13:25
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We can have emotionally stunted man-boys that are overly sensitive and overly insensitive. Software attracts both quite fine at the moment from coast to coast.
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Jul 23, 2016 13:43
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