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Azhais
Feb 5, 2007
Switchblade Switcharoo
So I kinda gave up on this show because I couldn't care less about either the skynet or pike plotlines. Last thing I vaguely remember is Kane getting crucified or something. Does it resolve at some point so I can be hopeful for season 4? Are there a couple episodes I should watch to just get s4 set up?

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raditts
Feb 21, 2001

The Kwanzaa Bot is here to protect me.


It resolves, but if you've watched up to where Kane got Krucified, then you can probably guess how the rest played out. If you don't want to just watch out the rest, then the last three should be sufficient I guess? Or if you don't want to make that much effort, Clarke gets a nightblood transfusion so she can use the Flame, gets help from Lexa who has been matrixed up into the flame to destroy the City of Light, but before she pulls the lever to do it (because of course there's always some kind of genocide lever or button), Alie tells her that she was assimilating everyone because every nuclear reactor on the planet is due to melt down simultaneously within a year and everybody's doomed.

Pixelante
Mar 16, 2006

You people will by God act like a team, or at least like people who know each other, or I'll incinerate the bunch of you here and now.
What's the in-show time-line of this stuff? I mean, we've got ark kids becoming fluent in the local dialect in what... months?

Judge Schnoopy
Nov 2, 2005

dont even TRY it, pal
You could catch up from where you're at with the season finale alone. You'll sort out pretty quickly who got infected with the chip and who didn't, and basically everything else at the end of the season was failed attempts to move the plot.

INH5
Dec 17, 2012
Error: file not found.

Pixelante posted:

What's the in-show time-line of this stuff? I mean, we've got ark kids becoming fluent in the local dialect in what... months?

According to the fan-wiki, the kids getting sent down to Murphy getting let out of the Lighthouse was about 5 months. Though that timeline also has most of Season 3 taking place in February, in and around what was the District of Columbia, raising the question of why it never snowed. Maybe global warming turned out to be even more severe than current predictions?

INH5
Dec 17, 2012
Error: file not found.
Just watched episode 5.

On the positive side: The pacing seems to be getting smoother, with no sudden changes in the plot this time. Very glad to see Murphy again, and it is awesome to see him getting a girlfriend and becoming a con man. The Jaha plot looks like it has potential (though it is still too early to judge). Raven's actress did a phenomenal job at selling her scenes.

On the negative:

I have one gripe with the Jaha plot: do people really implant the City of Light chips by eating them? That is so dumb.

I'll suspend my disbelief and accept that ALIE has magic nanotech that allows the chips to survive digestion and "reconstitute in the brain." I'll even accept the implantation happening ludicrously fast for something that supposedly goes through the digestive tract. But why would ALIE want to do it this way in the first place? It would be so much easier to simply have people place it on their neck or somewhere else close to the brain, then have tendrils or whatever burrow in and connect that way. The only conceivable reason I can see for making the chips digestible would be if she wanted Jaha to hide them in drinks or food and get people to ingest them unknowingly, but the chips supposedly have to be taken voluntarily due to ALIE's core command or something.

The worst part is that there was absolutely no reason for this. Nothing about the plot would change if the chips were implanted in a sensible way. The only thing that would be lost is the imagery of eating the chips like communion wafers, but that seems like a really weak reason to do something like this.

On a much more significant negative note, whoever wrote this episode desperately tried to justify Bellamy's actions, but there is just no way to square the circle. Bellamy has plenty of reasons to dislike Grounders in general and Trikru in particular, but he has absolutely no reason to think that massacring an army that is allied with them, providing them with protection, and has shown absolutely no sign of even thinking about betraying them would accomplish anything. Especially when his sister, who we have been told ad nauseam is more important to him than anyone or anything else, pretty much is a Grounder now and would almost certainly be at risk in any war between Skaikru and Grounders in general.

At this point, the only way that Bellamy's character can be at all redeemed would be if the writers either start pretending that this never happened or reveal that he was under some kind of mind control. This is Finn all over again, except 10 times worse and the character is too popular to kill so we'll be stuck with him as long as the series continues. This is hands down the biggest screw up that the writers of this show have ever done.

The Grounder political plotline is quickly approaching similar levels of dumbness. "Are you saying that my subjects will defy me?" Yes, Lexa, because any leader of at least a few hundred people faces constant threats to their power from those who are one rung below them, and it has been that way since before the human race existed. For someone who recently only barely managed to not get overthrown by the Ice Queen, you'd think that Lexa would be aware of this.

CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK
Sep 11, 2001



Yea the chips have to be ingested voluntarily. It's a bit silly but it does fit with the whole Jaha preacher angle.

Bellamy is a bad man and yes the show tries to redeem him. It's real dumb.

CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK fucked around with this message at 06:05 on Jul 22, 2016

esperterra
Mar 24, 2010

SHINee's back




Nanomachines, son.

INH5
Dec 17, 2012
Error: file not found.

CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK posted:

Yea the chips have to be ingested voluntarily. It's a bit silly but it does fit with the whole Jaha preacher angle.

If that was what the creators were really after, it seems like it would be pretty easy to do some kind of baptism imagery with the chips getting attached to the neck or whatever. Even something like "the chips need to be immersed in water to successfully attach to you, so put the chip in the bucket and then dunk your head in" would be much easier to buy than people literally eating them.

But this is ultimately a minor point.

CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK posted:

Bellamy is a bad man and yes the show tries to redeem him. It's real dumb.

I am so not looking forward to watching this, but thanks for warning me ahead of time.

INH5 fucked around with this message at 06:24 on Jul 22, 2016

Jump King
Aug 10, 2011

I don't even think they're digested, they just somehow get at the good stuff through the mouth. It's voluntary because otherwise ALIE would be OP, so I'm willing to go along with it.

INH5
Dec 17, 2012
Error: file not found.
Yeah, I have no problem with the voluntary requirement. I just think that the creators could have thought a bit more about what they wanted the visuals of people chipping themselves to look like and how it would come across onscreen.

esperterra
Mar 24, 2010

SHINee's back




I like the whole 'body of christ' thing it has going as is, myself. Though if it had a cooler look I wouldn't complain.

Rocksicles
Oct 19, 2012

by Nyc_Tattoo

CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK posted:

Yea the chips have to be ingested voluntarily. It's a bit silly but it does fit with the whole Jaha preacher angle.

Bellamy is a bad man and yes the show tries to redeem him. It's real dumb.

Bellamy is a loving dickhead, who tends towards doing the right thing. But he hates being told what to do, and he's terrible decision maker. But he's super brave and is either ten toes in or violently opposed.

Space kid problems.

VagueRant
May 24, 2012
INH5, what was your beef with the season 2 finale? That was maybe the peak of the show to me.

I thought tthe Jaha/Murphy stuff was the least interesting part of that season. (And yet the most unintentionally hilarious.)

hope and vaseline
Feb 13, 2001

esperterra posted:

I like the whole 'body of christ' thing it has going as is, myself. Though if it had a cooler look I wouldn't complain.

Yeah it's supposed to be a symbolic thing tied to the chip needing to be taken voluntarily, or at least the person has to surrender to it, and the whole Jaha coming back as an actual preacher.

hollylolly
Jun 5, 2009

Do you like superheroes? Check out my CYOA Mutants: Uprising

How about weird historical fiction? Try Vampires of the Caribbean

Rocksicles posted:

Bellamy is a loving dickhead, who tends towards doing the right thing. But he hates being told what to do, and he's terrible decision maker. But he's super brave and is either ten toes in or violently opposed.

Space kid problems.

It's hard being a space kid and no one understands.

Atreiden
May 4, 2008

It's hard to see any redemption for Bellamy and I would be fine with him dying. After the massacre of 300 warriors sent to protect them, I can't see him as anything but a racist villain.

INH5
Dec 17, 2012
Error: file not found.

Rocksicles posted:

Bellamy is a loving dickhead, who tends towards doing the right thing. But he hates being told what to do, and he's terrible decision maker. But he's super brave and is either ten toes in or violently opposed.

Space kid problems.

He hates being told what to do except when Pike tells him to do something mindbogglingly stupid that could easily get his sister (his responsibility) killed.

VagueRant posted:

INH5, what was your beef with the season 2 finale? That was maybe the peak of the show to me.

The short version is that it felt like the writers were dead set on having a "dark" and "serious" ending where the protagonists are forced to kill a bunch of innocent people including children, and bent everything in the story to that outcome without stopping to think if the end result was compelling, watchable, or even just made any kind of sense.

A lot of events pretty much only happen because the script says so:

Right when the Grounders are about to pull open the blast door and storm Mount Weather, Lexa suddenly walks onscreen and says that despite the 10 zillion repetitions of "blood must have blood" in previous episodes, she made a deal with the Mountain Men because reasons (yes, I know about the behind the scenes issues with the machine gun scene that couldn't be filmed due to budget/network censor issues, but that doesn't change what ended up onscreen). The Mountain Men somehow capture a bunch of adult Arkers offscreen, including Kane who was last seen being taken to Camp Jaha in a stretcher with a massive leg injury and is now able to stand and walk just fine (even for a show that has always played fast and loose with wound healing times, this is ridiculous), for literally no reason except to make the marrow extraction scenes a bit more dramatic. The Mountain Men leave their control room completely operational and totally unguarded when they know there are saboteurs in the bunker, because the writers couldn't be bothered to come up with some clever way for Clarke and co. to gain access to Level 5's cameras and life support. Not only Cage but also Dante, who has been built up throughout the season as the pragmatic and non-cartoonishly evil Wallace, is now totally unreasonable and unwilling to negotiate even when the enemy has a gun to the collective heads of his entire civilization. No one brings up other possibilities like getting on the PA system and telling the people of Mount Weather that they will all die if they don't stop Cage (before you start giving me reasons why that wouldn't work, my problem isn't that alternative options aren't available, it is that the characters don't talk about possible alternatives).

I don't have a problem with the general idea of Clarke and Bellamy being forced to irradiate Mount Weather, but the execution felt really forced and contrived, and like the script could have used another draft or two.

Then there's Maya, where the writing quality goes from "sloppy" to "total nonsense." We've been shown over and over again that Mount Weather hazmat suits can be used for many hours as long as they haven't been damaged or deliberately given insufficient air. We see ground teams in hazmat suits capturing the 48 at the dropship 20 miles from Mount Weather, walking to just outside Camp Jaha (later stated to be an 8 hour walk), following Clarke and Anya through the woods for hours, etc. When Clarke drains Emerson's air tank, we get a close up of the dial that seems to show that one air tank can hold enough air to last for 12 hours. Yet for no reason at all, Maya runs out of air after maybe 2 hours if we're very generous despite having at least 2 air tanks with her (Jasper says that they just changed the tank when the 30 minute warning starts beeping). Maya, Jasper, and Octavia head down to Level 5, where all of the spare oxygen is, to "help Maya," and when they get there they immediately forget the reason that they came down there in the first place. They get in contact with a defector guard who has a high enough security clearance to smuggle an assassin with a knife into the same room as the President, and no one thinks to ask him to bring them some canned air so that Maya can put her hazmat suit back on and go somewhere that isn't filled with people who will kill her on sight. Jasper gives Maya a gun before he leaves to go after Cage, but the gun disappears between scenes so that when a couple stumbles into Maya and Octavia's hiding place they can't point the gun at them and tell them to get up against the wall and stay quiet.

It is almost hilarious the lengths that the writers went to to kill off this character when they could have easily just had her get shot by a random security guard.

But the worst part is that the script cheats this much only to achieve a pretty mediocre result. Apart from a few standout moments (Octavia being badass, Lincoln killing Cage, all of the scenes with Murphy but especially him finding the Lighthouse), most of the episode fell flat for me. The dialogue is unengaging for the most part, the marrow extraction scenes end up as pretty much just tiresome torture porn, and the final decision scene that is supposed to be the climax of the entire season is devoid of tension. The tone is deliberately as grim and depressing as possible to the point where I started to wonder why I was even watching it.

Contrast this with the Season 1 finale. Everything involved in the final battle was set up in previous episodes: the kids, the Grounders, their weapons (guns, pipe bombs, and land mines vs. spears and bows), the Reapers, the dropship's engines, the damage to the dropship courtesy of Murphy that means that it has to be repaired before it can blast off, and so on. Everything that happened during the finale was the culmination of these established elements and plotlines. Even the Mountain Men had been foreshadowed. You didn't have Anya suddenly deciding that she doesn't want to kill the Sky People after all, or Murphy ending up back in the camp offscreen with only a brief handwave as to why or how, or when the kids are in the dropship at the end some last-minute contrivance coming up that forces a character to go outside and die. I'm sure that you can poke holes in the story if you look hard enough, but for the most part it all holds together and delivers some tense and exciting action, good character moments, and one of the best season ending cliffhangers I've seen in years.

Most of the Season 2 finale felt like a big drop in quality, and when I took a look at what the third season was about it sounded like it had a lot of the stuff that I didn't like about the former. That's why it took me so long to get to Season 3 when I binged through the first 2 seasons in a week and a half.

VagueRant posted:

I thought the Jaha/Murphy stuff was the least interesting part of that season. (And yet the most unintentionally hilarious.)

I think that most of the comedy in that plotline was intentional. Murphy repeatedly points out how idiotic the whole quest is, and Jaha's continued insistence that this is all part of their destiny in the face of increasingly absurd obstacles reminds me of Pangloss in Candide. Even the minefield scene seems to have been at least partially played for dark comedy ("A shower would be nice right about now. Wash off the rest of Harris.").

I think the main reasons that I liked the way the Jaha/Murphy plotline ended more than the end of the Mount Weather plot are: 1) it felt like a story where the characters drove the plot, instead of the plot jerking the characters around like puppets; and 2) the tone was something other than unrelenting grimdarkness, in large part because by the end of the second season Murphy seems to be the only one in the cast who still has a sense of humor.

INH5 fucked around with this message at 00:24 on Jul 23, 2016

hollylolly
Jun 5, 2009

Do you like superheroes? Check out my CYOA Mutants: Uprising

How about weird historical fiction? Try Vampires of the Caribbean

King Roan is going to be a series regular next season though. :perfect:

CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK
Sep 11, 2001



VagueRant posted:

INH5, what was your beef with the season 2 finale? That was maybe the peak of the show to me.

I thought tthe Jaha/Murphy stuff was the least interesting part of that season. (And yet the most unintentionally hilarious.)

Jaha's wild ride was the best part of that season.

Haters need to get chipped.

Sober
Nov 19, 2011

First touch: Life.
Second touch: Dead again. Forever.
I thoroughly support INH5's evisceration of season 3 (and some elements of S2).

What's sad is I'm totally in board for whatever we're gonna get for S4.

The 100 is a reference to the number of times the show will prioritize plot over character.

hope and vaseline
Feb 13, 2001

hollylolly posted:

King Roan is going to be a series regular next season though. :perfect:

Yessssss

muscles like this!
Jan 17, 2005


Makes sense, he is off of Black Sails so he has plenty of time.

Fat Shat Sings
Jan 24, 2016
The whole five months from landfall to end of Season 3 makes a ton of things hilarious in retrospect.

The main one for me is Octavia going all "MY PEOPLE" all the time. Dramatically screaming to the heavens about people she spent half a semesters worth of time with.

Next to that is probably that the Ark people have a leadership change every few weeks.

INH5
Dec 17, 2012
Error: file not found.

Fat Shat Sings posted:

The whole five months from landfall to end of Season 3 makes a ton of things hilarious in retrospect.

The main one for me is Octavia going all "MY PEOPLE" all the time. Dramatically screaming to the heavens about people she spent half a semesters worth of time with.

To be fair, Octavia knew exactly two people for the entirety of her pre-landfall life, and one of them got shot out of an airlock.

Oh, and a slight correction: it is five months from landfall to the beginning of Season 3, after the 3 month time skip. The fan-wiki doesn't have a detailed timeline for Season 3, but I think it is about another month.

iceyman
Jul 11, 2001

Man, living in one small room and only ever interacting with 2 people for all of your existence is really bizarrely trippy when you think about it. Octavia should be far far less adjusted than she is portrayed.

Finished Season 3. It okay-ish. A noticeable step down from season 2 in terms of plotting. Lots of good plot setups that felt way too rushed and never fully explored. I wish Murphy and Ontari's precarious con-game had gone on a bit longer.

INH5
Dec 17, 2012
Error: file not found.

Cocks Cable posted:

Man, living in one small room and only ever interacting with 2 people for all of your existence is really bizarrely trippy when you think about it. Octavia should be far far less adjusted than she is portrayed.

Yeah, it is weird to think about. Octavia's very early childhood wouldn't be all that different from many normal children, so she wouldn't end up like a feral child (IE not being able to talk), but the further you go past that, the more questions come up.

I don't know if there are any equivalent real life cases off of the top of my head. I'm sure that there have been people who had little social interaction outside their family in childhood (IE isolated farmers in places like Appalachia), but even they got to go outside once in a while.

INH5
Dec 17, 2012
Error: file not found.
Watched Episode 6.

Positive:

Pacing continues to improve. This felt much more like a Season 1 or 2 episode in terms of plotting.

While the Pike plot as a whole still isn't working for me, I like Octavia's scenes in this episode.

While the timeline for the development of Trigadesleng is implausible, I like how it is constructed close enough to English that you can sometimes sort of understand it. I giggled when Octavia saying something like "I na no bash you up" was subtitled as "I mean you no harm."

The Jaha/ALIE plot is alright, I guess. Interesting twist that to paraphrase Abby, the chip takes away more than just pain. I like the callback to Season 1's mention of the 13th station, though the hints of what this is going to lead to aren't very inspiring to me so far.

I'm not that big a fan of Lexa, but Clarke drawing her was a cute little moment.

Negative:

Now Monty is going along with Pike's bullshit too. Is the goal of the writers to end the season with as few sympathetic regulars as possible?

Arkadia needing to take Grounder land to feed itself might have been an interesting plot if it had been set up at all at any point earlier in the show. The thing about them needing it now that they don't have "Mount Weather's resources" raises a whole bunch of questions. Yeah, Mount Weather had hydroponic farms, but everyone who worked those farms is dead, and we know that the Arkers didn't move in and start working them. Were they just eating stored food from Mount Weather? If so, then why didn't they move all or at least most of the food to Arkadia months ago? Wouldn't that have been the very first priority for supply runs?

I don't normally ask questions like this, but if the show wants to make Arkadia's food supply a plot point, it should have a few answers ready.

Also on this subject: Monty's never eaten corn? The corn seeds must have come from either the Ark or Mount Weather, and he has eaten at both of those places, so that seems highly improbable. This is a minor point, but I think it is a sign of how sloppy the writers are being with their worldbuilding. Again, if the writers don't want to pay attention to these kinds of details, they shouldn't be doing a plot like this.

I've heard that Emerson only survived the Season 2 finale because they didn't have the budget to film the scene where he was scripted to die. It shows. I really get the sense that the writers have no idea what to do with the character. It doesn't help that we learned basically nothing about him in Season 2, but the stuff in this episode doesn't do much to improve it. Also, are we supposed to believe that Emerson hasn't changed his clothes in 3 months?

Speaking of which, the writing is not doing a very good job of selling the "blood must not have blood" thing. I think that the Grounder politics in general is handicapped by the rushed pacing in the first episodes not leaving enough time to properly establish the setting and characters. The fact that the show still has to split time between Arkadia and Polis just makes it worse. Season 2 handled this sort of split much better by putting most of the outside plot in the early episodes and most of the Mount Weather plot in the later episodes.

Polis = Polaris with the "ar" missing? Come on, that doesn't even begin to make sense. At most you might end up with "Pol is," but there is no way that anyone will think it is one word when it has that big space in the middle.

MiddleOne
Feb 17, 2011

muscles like this? posted:

Makes sense, he is off of Black Sails so he has plenty of time.

He also appeared in Unreal this season... Is someone about to dethrone Roger Cross? :ohdear:

Boing
Jul 12, 2005

trapped in custom title factory, send help
Trigedasleng is my favourite thing about the show. There's so many cool little details about it.

INH5
Dec 17, 2012
Error: file not found.
Watched episode 7. There's a lot to talk about in this episode. Let's get the big stuff out of the way first.

First, the Polaris backstory: I like the concept, there are some interesting ideas here, and I liked seeing the flashbacks to the apocalypse. However, there are some serious issues with the execution. I think the biggest problem is that the Cargo Cult thing is getting pushed way too hard. This goes beyond the general issue of there not being enough time for Grounder culture to develop. Even if we mentally add a few centuries to the timeline, there is no way that people who have access to artifacts of the modern world would not know what an infinity symbol is. Sure, maybe the average illiterate peasant wouldn't recognize it, but an educated person like Tidus should absolutely know what it means, just like educated people today (or for that matter, educated people during the Middle Ages) know what Greek letters and Roman Numerals mean. In fact, there is speculation that John Wallis, the English mathematician who coined the infinity symbol in 1655, based it off of a variant of the Roman Numeral for 1,000 (CIƆ or CƆ).

The same goes for turning the escape pod into some kind of altar. I can buy the Grounders not understanding what the AI chip is, because that was implied to be ultra cutting edge tech even during Becca's time, but forgetting what the escape pod is makes no sense on all sorts of levels, again going beyond the general timeline issues.

1). Even the simplest societies have oral history, and "the ancients built houses in the sky and sent people to the moon" is exactly the sort of thing that sticks around in mythology.

2). It was repeatedly demonstrated during Season One that the Ark could be seen from the ground with the naked eye. It is a little hard to forget something like this when you have a visual reminder every night.

3). It was stated in Season 2 by Lincoln that people coming down to Earth from the Ark in escape pods to commit "suicide by Earth" was a semi-regular occurrence. If the star that zips across the sky multiple times every night doesn't remind you that space stations exist, then surely a person falling from the sky in a metal pod will.

4). Even we ignore all of the above, it is now 5 months after hundreds of people came down from the sky in spectacular fashion and started interacting with the Grounders, often in hostile ways. At this point, even the poorest and least educated peasant within 200 miles should be well aware that space stations are/were a thing.

In general, I think the show is pushing the idea of Grounders as noble ignorant savages too far. A while back, I visited the Casa Grande museum in Arizona and watched a video presentation that included descendants of the Ancestral Sonorran Desert People that built the structure telling tribal legends about how it was built and how it came to be abandoned. This is a people that was totally illiterate until a few centuries ago and has lived through two civilizational collapses (the first in the early 1400s for reasons that aren't totally clear but seem to have involved floods that severely damaged their canal system, the second a hundred years later due to the introduction of European diseases) followed by centuries of colonization by the Spanish, Mexicans, and Americans, and yet 600 years later they still know a few things about their own history. People don't forget all that easily.

Second, Lexa. I knew that this was coming because I heard about the controversy months before I started watching the show. I'm of two minds about this. On the one hand, there were behind the scenes issues with the actress and the death does advance the plot significantly. On the other hand, the way it happened does seem pretty lame and like it was written more for shock value than for anything else. Lexa is a warrior who regularly goes into battle and a political leader during a very turbulent time where she is at constant risk of being assassinated, and the best death that the writers could come up with was getting accidentally shot? That, and having it happen right after the love scene seems incredibly manipulative. I was never much of a fan of Lexa, but I definitely understand why people who were really didn't like this.

More general comments: Murphy is awesome, even when he is being tortured. I like Octavia's scene with Indra, but Octavia bouncing back and forth between identifying as Skaikru and identifying as a Grounder is really starting to get old.

INH5 fucked around with this message at 17:18 on Jul 24, 2016

Lycus
Aug 5, 2008

Half the posters in this forum have been made up. This website is a goddamn ghost town.
While I think people way overuse the phrase "shock value", I do think Lexa's death 100% qualifies with how random and accidental it was.

WarLocke
Jun 6, 2004

You are being watched. :allears:

hollylolly posted:

King Roan is going to be a series regular next season though. :perfect:

Um, didn't he get shot right in the heart and left to die in Polis when he and Clarke were trying to sneak/bluff their way in?

e: Spoiled for the poster who is still watching s3

WarLocke fucked around with this message at 00:14 on Jul 24, 2016

Lycus
Aug 5, 2008

Half the posters in this forum have been made up. This website is a goddamn ghost town.

WarLocke posted:

Um, didn't he get shot right in the heart and left to die in Polis when he and Clarke were trying to sneak/bluff their way in?

You know very well that the lethality of gunshots and knife wounds varies wildly in TV.

Fat Shat Sings
Jan 24, 2016
I think S3 would have made more sense (spoilered since people are still apparently live watching it

Octavia had been killed by grounders. Since a lot of them see her as an outsider, especially the Ice Nation people. It would give Bellamy a reason to actually want to go kill the grounder army and support Pike, it would give Lincoln a reason to feel like he needed to be imprisoned.

After Lincoln gets executed you let Indra kill Pike in Octavia's place. Bellamy is a little more sympathetic since he would have committed mass murder over his sister. His response would have been "OCTAVIA" to any Arker (or even Indra) that gave him poo poo for murdering 300 people, instead of just blankly staring back when people are disgusted with him.

This would also have given Pike a little more believably in swaying so many people over to his side, when even the grounder weeaboo gets murdered by the grounders you can't trust them.

Sober
Nov 19, 2011

First touch: Life.
Second touch: Dead again. Forever.
Well maybe. But what they had could've worked if they actually put in the work of getting those characters there in S3. Didn't really feel like they did so it's just another year of plot over character style character assassinations.

For instance, a friend of mine actually met Bob Morley and even he was confused with what he had to do this season and just had to do the best he could to have it make sense when he was on scene. Like yeah, even the actors are kinda not digging it.

Fat Shat Sings
Jan 24, 2016

Sober posted:

Well maybe. But what they had could've worked if they actually put in the work of getting those characters there in S3. Didn't really feel like they did so it's just another year of plot over character style character assassinations.

For instance, a friend of mine actually met Bob Morley and even he was confused with what he had to do this season and just had to do the best he could to have it make sense when he was on scene. Like yeah, even the actors are kinda not digging it.

"Alright Bob, you are going to go do some crazy poo poo that will make your character be an unsympathetic psychopath. Think Finn shooting up that village x10"
"What?! Why?"
"Make sure you are a dick about it"

INH5
Dec 17, 2012
Error: file not found.

Sober posted:

For instance, a friend of mine actually met Bob Morley and even he was confused with what he had to do this season and just had to do the best he could to have it make sense when he was on scene. Like yeah, even the actors are kinda not digging it.

Between this and the time earlier this year when Ricky Whittle accused Jason Rothenburg of a whole bunch of awful things and exactly zero members of the cast or crew came forward to defend Jason, I get the feeling that we'll learn about some really horrific/hilarious stuff after the show ends and enough time passes for the people involved to be comfortable talking about it.

On a semi-related note, I recently came across a tumblr post by a writer on The 100 that talks about a major change in the writing process that took place in Season 3.

Kim Shumway's Tumblr posted:

"Hi. I was wondering how you adapted from working with an episode outline on the former seasons to now going directly to the script. Which way do you feel most comfortable with and how has that changed your approach?"
— goreting

What a great question! Personally, I love writing outlines. The purpose of an outline is to solidify the episode’s structure, so you know what happens when. With all of that worked out in detail, it really gives the writer the freedom to just be creative when writing the script: to find great moments between characters, come up with captivating images, etc. Some of the hardest work is done in the outline so that you can make things sparkle in script.

In season 3, we were no longer required to send outlines to the studio and network, which is common for third season shows on The CW. Yet we started the season still writing outlines. I wrote an outline for 303 (five versions, actually), but did not for 311. There came a point in season 3 where we realized that outlines weren’t helping. The intent is to work out the structure, but we found that Jason kept wanting structural changes long after the outline stage, so the outlines were just exhausting the writers before they got to script and taking up too much time.

Because of that, the decision was made to scrap outlines entirely. Instead we do a story document for the studio and network, then we break the episode in the writers’ room (putting the scenes up on cards on the board and talking Jason through them), then we go off to write the script. That first draft of a script now serves the purpose of what an outline used to: showing Jason the structure of the episode. Unfortunately, that means the script has to do double-duty as both proof of structure and a draft of the episode, which in some ways can make things harder. But we serve at the pleasure of the showrunner, so our goal is to make the writing process work best for him.

It’s an ever-evolving process with one aim: efficiency! And I think getting rid of outlines got us a bit closer to that this season.

(emphasis added)

This explains so much.

Atreiden
May 4, 2008

INH5 posted:

Timeline stuff.

I agree with you, the timeline is way to short, it's been less than a hundred years since the apocalypse and basically everything about the old world have been forgotten. It doesn't really make sense. It's not a dealbreaker for me, the show is still really great, but it does bug me at times.

I found an interview with Ricky Whittle that goes into some detail regarding Lincoln's death and I think it sad that a plotline regarding Lincoln was apparently completely cut http://www.eonline.com/news/754651/the-100-s-ricky-whittle-says-he-was-bullied-off-the-show-check-out-boss-response

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TheCenturion
May 3, 2013
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INH5 posted:

Watched episode 7. There's a lot to talk about in this episode. Let's get the big stuff out of the way first.

First, the Polaris backstory: I like the concept, there are some interesting ideas here, and I liked seeing the flashbacks to the apocalypse. However, there are some serious issues with the execution. I think the biggest problem is that the Cargo Cult thing is getting pushed way too hard. This goes beyond the general issue of there not being enough time for Grounder culture to develop. Even if we mentally add a few centuries to the timeline, there is no way that people who have access to artifacts of the modern world would not know what an infinity symbol is. Sure, maybe the average illiterate peasant wouldn't recognize it, but an educated person like Tidus should absolutely know what it means, just like educated people today (or for that matter, educated people during the Middle Ages) know what Greek letters and Roman Numerals mean. In fact, there is speculation that John Wallis, the English mathematician who coined the infinity symbol in 1655, based it off of a variant of the Roman Numeral for 1,000 (CIƆ or CƆ).

The same goes for turning the escape pod into some kind of altar. I can buy the Grounders not understanding what the AI chip is, because that was implied to be ultra cutting edge tech even during Becca's time, but forgetting what the escape pod is makes no sense on all sorts of levels, again going beyond the general timeline issues.

1). Even the simplest societies have oral history, and "the ancients built houses in the sky and sent people to the moon" is exactly the sort of thing that sticks around in mythology.

2). It was repeatedly demonstrated during Season One that the Ark could be seen from the ground with the naked eye. It is a little hard to forget something like this when you have a visual reminder every night.

3). It was stated in Season 2 by Lincoln that people coming down to Earth from the Ark in escape pods to commit "suicide by Earth" was a semi-regular occurrence. If the star that zips across the sky multiple times every night doesn't remind you that space stations exist, then surely a person falling from the sky in a metal pod will.

4). Even we ignore all of the above, it is now 5 months after hundreds of people came down from the sky in spectacular fashion and started interacting with the Grounders, often in hostile ways. At this point, even the poorest and least educated peasant within 200 miles should be well aware that space stations are/were a thing.

In general, I think the show is pushing the idea of Grounders as noble ignorant savages too far. A while back, I visited the Casa Grande museum in Arizona and watched a video presentation that included descendants of the Ancenstral Sonorran Desert People that built the structure telling tribal legends about how it was built and how it came to be abandoned. This is a people that was totally illiterate until a few centuries ago and has lived through two civilizational collapses (the first in the early 1400s for reasons that aren't totally clear but seem to have involved floods that severely damaged their canal system, the second a hundred years later due to the introduction of European diseases) followed by centuries of colonization by the Spanish, Mexicans, and Americans, and yet 600 years later they still know a few things about their own history. People don't forget all that easily.

Second, Lexa. I knew that this was coming because I heard about the controversy months before I started watching the show. I'm of two minds about this. On the one hand, there were behind the scenes issues with the actress and the death does advance the plot significantly. On the other hand, the way it happened does seem pretty lame and like it was written more for shock value than for anything else. Lexa is a warrior who regularly goes into battle and a political leader during a very turbulent time where she is at constant risk of being assassinated, and the best death that the writers could come up with was getting accidentally shot? That, and having it happen right after the love scene seems incredibly manipulative. I was never much of a fan of Lexa, but I definitely understand why people who were really didn't like this.

More general comments: Murphy is awesome, even when he is being tortured. I like Octavia's scene with Indra, but Octavia bouncing back and forth between identifying as Skaikru and identifying as a Grounder is really starting to get old.

I think the idea is that a lot of the linguistic and cultural drift is forced, to stymie the Mountain Men. I'd expect that quite a bit of the Becca/Alie lore is specifically hidden or obfuscated by religion as a safety measure.

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