|
Putin is playing Civilization. As the Huns.
|
#
?
Jul 21, 2016 10:04
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 10, 2024 21:26 |
|
|
A Pale Horse posted:Russia may not be winning exactly but the destabilization of Europe is a good thing for them. Brexit may well be the beginning of the end of the EU, the failed possibly staged coup in Turkey may end up driving Turkey out of NATO and has certainly ended any aspirations of EU membership for them. The migrant crisis and stagnant economy are driving euroskeptic nationalism up and down the continent. There's also the matter of a seemingly endless deluge of terrorist attacks. These are all positives for Russia because they undermine liberalism and unity on the continent so despite their own problems I can see why they'd be optimistic. The failure of liberalism and the EU isn't really useful for Russia though. It's useful for Putin and his kleptocracy as it eliminates alternatives to it - but it's not actually going to make Russians better off or raise their standard of living. It seems Russia is focused on simply being powerful without really formulating a vision for what to do with that power or an alternative system.
|
|
#
?
Jul 21, 2016 10:57
|
|
|
Anos posted:The failure of liberalism and the EU isn't really useful for Russia though. It's useful for Putin and his kleptocracy as it eliminates alternatives to it - but it's not actually going to make Russians better off or raise their standard of living. It seems Russia is focused on simply being powerful without really formulating a vision for what to do with that power or an alternative system. Putin is Russia effectively and to me at least it seems that the people of Russia are happy with that. It won't improve their standard of living per se but it fits perfectly with Putins nationalist message that Europe will be destroyed by liberalism and the weakness that that ideology engenders. It's fuel for his fire to see the stark right turn the continent is currently executing and will strengthen his power (not that it was particularly in danger to begin with). A collapsed EU also opens up many more avenues for exploitation for Russia in Europe. Who knows they could even become the new power hub for nationalist countries like Germany or the US are power hubs for liberal power now. The Russians appear to be more concerned with national power than with individual rights and freedoms or even quality of life.
|
|
#
?
Jul 21, 2016 11:23
|
|
|
In other Balkan news, BiH Pokemon Go players are looking for rare pokemons in minefields now 
|
|
#
?
Jul 21, 2016 13:49
|
|
|
Truga posted:In other Balkan news, BiH Pokemon Go players are looking for rare pokemons in minefields now
|
|
#
?
Jul 21, 2016 14:03
|
|
|
http://www.b92.net/info/vesti/index.php?yyyy=2016&mm=07&dd=19&nav_category=167&nav_id=1156765 A bit in english: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-36841828 e: Liveleak has a translation of the b92 thing and more: http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=a19_1469030990&comments=1
|
|
#
?
Jul 21, 2016 14:13
|
|
|
Anos posted:The failure of liberalism and the EU isn't really useful for Russia though. It's useful for Putin and his kleptocracy as it eliminates alternatives to it - but it's not actually going to make Russians better off or raise their standard of living. It seems Russia is focused on simply being powerful without really formulating a vision for what to do with that power or an alternative system. Wouldn't the Euroskeptic parties lift the trade sanctions on Russia?
|
|
#
?
Jul 21, 2016 14:24
|
|
|
Truga posted:http://www.b92.net/info/vesti/index.php?yyyy=2016&mm=07&dd=19&nav_category=167&nav_id=1156765
|
|
#
?
Jul 21, 2016 14:31
|
|
|
Truga posted:In other Balkan news, BiH Pokemon Go players are looking for rare pokemons in minefields now Heard about it on the radio the other day, rather shocking that 20 years later somewhere between 2.5 - 5 % of Bosnia is still hazardous due to mines, with floods moving mines to "safe" areas.
|
|
#
?
Jul 21, 2016 14:54
|
|
|
Rincewinds posted:Heard about it on the radio the other day, rather shocking that 20 years later somewhere between 2.5 - 5 % of Bosnia is still hazardous due to mines, with floods moving mines to "safe" areas. We still find unexploded ordnance from 14-18 in northeastern France to this day... Here's a pic showing in blue all the conventional bombs and in red all the chemical bombs, remnant of WW1, found in France between 2008 and 2011. (Sorry, didn't find something more recent.)  15 tons of chemical weapons unearthed every year, to this day, over one century after the war. Industrial warfare fucks up the land something fierce.
|
|
#
?
Jul 21, 2016 16:17
|
|
|
I've been to Bosnia a couple times since the war and it really pushes the point home when you go to the Bosna spring (I wanna say a few minutes past the Sarajevo airport, it's been a while now) and there's red boards with skulls on them everywhere suddenly.
|
|
#
?
Jul 21, 2016 16:38
|
|
|
Anos posted:The failure of liberalism and the EU isn't really useful for Russia though. It's useful for Putin and his kleptocracy as it eliminates alternatives to it - but it's not actually going to make Russians better off or raise their standard of living. It seems Russia is focused on simply being powerful without really formulating a vision for what to do with that power or an alternative system. In some ways it is debatable, I think the Russian vision is actually quite clear which is to dominate the countries near it and their economies (Eursian Union)and to gradually tear the EU apart, an outcome which may eventually lead to an end of sanctions and an increase in bilateral trade with "friendly" European nations. To be fair, Russia was never going to join the EU, and Russia's alternative is a world where it has a significantly more political power and the rest of Europe is too divided to really stand up to it. To be fair, most Russians believe a weaker Russia is going to a less economically prosperous one. That said, the problem with the Russian economy more than anything else is its addiction to oil/gas and it is unclear if any of this this would help. It is possible a weaker Europe is probably going to be more reliant on Russian gas and Putin probably hopes to eventually turn his political and military influence in the Middle East into some type of leverage on oil prices. Ultimately, more than anything the Russians need the Saudis to stop oversupplying the market and everything else is sort of a sideshow to that. Ardennes fucked around with this message at 20:10 on Jul 21, 2016 |
|
#
?
Jul 21, 2016 20:00
|
|
|
Ardennes posted:In some ways it is debatable, I think the Russian vision is actually quite clear which is to dominate the countries near it and their economies (Eursian Union)and to gradually tear the EU apart, an outcome which may eventually lead to an end of sanctions and an increase in bilateral trade with "friendly" European nations. To be fair, Russia was never going to join the EU, and Russia's alternative is a world where it has a significantly more political power and the rest of Europe is too divided to really stand up to it. To be fair, most Russians believe a weaker Russia is going to a less economically prosperous one. I think the other goal is to reduce the West and his competition to oligarchic autocracies, because it's easier to negotiate with or bribe a single leader like Erdogan or Trump than it is to deal with democratic voters, parties, representatives, factions, etc.
|
|
#
?
Jul 21, 2016 20:23
|
|
|
Young Freud posted:I think the other goal is to reduce the West and his competition to oligarchic autocracies, because it's easier to negotiate with or bribe a single leader like Erdogan or Trump than it is to deal with democratic voters, parties, representatives, factions, etc. I guess you could say it is more "certain", once he owns someone it seems to stay that way. It is going to be interesting to see what happens in Italy (which may have a banking crisis/early elections) and France. it is likely both second round French presidential candidates (Sarkozy/Le Pen) are pro-Putin. Merkel and the CDU may not last in Germany either.
|
|
#
?
Jul 21, 2016 20:48
|
|
|
jonnypeh posted:30,000 soldiers is already better than a token professional force of 1,500 (even if supported by the home guard units). Give them quality MANPADS and ATGMs and the opponent will have something to think about. No, it's not. The alternative to a corps of 1,500 professional, well equipped soldiers is not 30,000 professional, well-equipped soldiers - it's 30,000 useless conscripts who would only bog down any modern military operation by straining its supply lines. The NATO itself has been pushing for specialization of its minor forces, with its Centres of Excellence initiatives etc., not to mention the pretty much universally supported push to actually scrap as much of the Cold War era hardware left in Europe as possible (MBTs, APCs...) because it's a liability, not an asset.
|
|
#
?
Jul 21, 2016 22:41
|
|
|
Germany did it again. http://bigthink.com/strange-maps/germany-just-got-a-bit-bigger quote:While you weren't paying attention, Germany just got a bit bigger. In the previous century, the central European country waged two wars to increase its territory. But some time in the past months or years, it gained about 500 square meters (5,382 sq. ft) without a single shot being fired. All thanks to the Kirnitzsch, a small river that forms part of Germany's border with the Czech Republic. As someone noticed last April, it changed course – to the advantage of the Germans. 
|
|
#
?
Jul 21, 2016 22:50
|
|
|
Saxony, where even the rivers are nazis.
|
|
#
?
Jul 22, 2016 00:39
|
|
|
"Blut und Boden" in action.
|
|
#
?
Jul 22, 2016 07:09
|
|
|
steinrokkan posted:No, it's not. The alternative to a corps of 1,500 professional, well equipped soldiers is not 30,000 professional, well-equipped soldiers - it's 30,000 useless conscripts who would only bog down any modern military operation by straining its supply lines. The NATO itself has been pushing for specialization of its minor forces, with its Centres of Excellence initiatives etc., not to mention the pretty much universally supported push to actually scrap as much of the Cold War era hardware left in Europe as possible (MBTs, APCs...) because it's a liability, not an asset. Why would conscripts be useless in your opinion? A soldier with a rifle is more useful than no soldier. And training matters. Finland trusts them to operate tanks and APC-s, never mind what they have in Israel. In addition, none of the Baltic states are large enough to have to overly worry about supply lines. And are you trying to tell me conscripts are that useless that they do not know how to load a truck and drive it to places? 30,000 was just an example, Estonia has more than that in reserves. Lithuania and Latvia *should* be able to field more. Worst decision would be getting rid of conscription to only maintain a token expeditionary force to support American military ventures abroad in hopes that HRH Donald Trump will be sated enough to lend a hand. quote:...not to mention the pretty much universally supported push to actually scrap as much of the Cold War era hardware left in Europe as possible (MBTs, APCs...) because it's a liability, not an asset. Yeah, I'm guessing politicians in large countries cut defense budgets because they are not threatened by anything, much less Russia. Luckily it's an opportunity for poor eastern european countries to hoard perfectly good tech sold cheap. I don't see how firepower and armor protection afforded by either of those things is a liability.
|
|
#
?
Jul 22, 2016 07:31
|
|
|
jonnypeh posted:Why would conscripts be useless in your opinion? A soldier with a rifle is more useful than no soldier. And training matters. Finland trusts them to operate tanks and APC-s, never mind what they have in Israel. In addition, none of the Baltic states are large enough to have to overly worry about supply lines. And are you trying to tell me conscripts are that useless that they do not know how to load a truck and drive it to places? Budgets are going to be limited no matter what (though currently we are probably pushing against the bottom of what is feasible to spend on security in Europe), and it seems defense professionals have generally concluded that the best way to spend these monies is to focus on lean, highly specialized forces that complement each other in combat instead of having each and every country field a structurally complete, but mediocre force. I.e. some small and poor NATO countries may end up with no air force to speak of, but if it means that they can provide e.g. a top-class anti-chemical warfare brigade capable of filling this role for alliance-wide deployments, it's a net gain compared to the same country providing a handful of antiquated migs and T72s that wouldn't be used in actual combat anyway. Also you talked about arming conscripts with MANPADs and sending them to the frontlines, not about letting them drive forklifts around a warehouse. That's very different. Also I'm not quite convinced those Finnish reservists would actually have much of a battlefield impact in case of a proper conventional war, even if some of them have been trained in operating heavy equipment. Maybe in a delaying deployment to allow allies to deploy themselves un-harassed, but if the defense of the country fell 100% on the shoulders of reservists after the professional force had been defeated, it would probably be more humane to surrender instead of sacrificing their lives. jonnypeh posted:Yeah, I'm guessing politicians in large countries cut defense budgets because they are not threatened by anything, much less Russia. Luckily it's an opportunity for poor eastern european countries to hoard perfectly good tech sold cheap. I don't see how firepower and armor protection afforded by either of those things is a liability.
|
|
#
?
Jul 22, 2016 08:06
|
|
|
A few thousand professional soldiers maybe able to hold a port or an airfield from a sudden takeover, but for defending an entire country you might just as well not have an army. It's just not feasible without conscription. Professional armies are okay if you don't have actual borders to defend and only need your army for overseas deployments, though.
|
|
#
?
Jul 22, 2016 09:26
|
|
|
Right, if your country is outside the Nato, but I still think that nato encourages moving away from conscription and towards modest reserves as long as the mutual defense commitment remains credible.
|
|
#
?
Jul 22, 2016 09:44
|
|
|
HUGE PUBES A PLUS posted:Germany did it again. River shouldn't have been so curvy if it didn't want to be straightened.
|
|
#
?
Jul 22, 2016 10:11
|
|
|
steinrokkan posted:Reservists are useful as a complement to the professional army, but having healthy reserves doesn't translate into having a larger standing peacetime army. quote:Budgets are going to be limited no matter what (though currently we are probably pushing against the bottom of what is feasible to spend on security in Europe), and it seems defense professionals have generally concluded that the best way to spend these monies is to focus on lean, highly specialized forces that complement each other in combat instead of having each and every country field a structurally complete, but mediocre force. I.e. some small and poor NATO countries may end up with no air force to speak of, but if it means that they can provide e.g. a top-class anti-chemical warfare brigade capable of filling this role for alliance-wide deployments, it's a net gain compared to the same country providing a handful of antiquated migs and T72s that wouldn't be used in actual combat anyway. quote:Also you talked about arming conscripts with MANPADs and sending them to the frontlines, not about letting them drive forklifts around a warehouse. That's very different. Also I'm not quite convinced those Finnish reservists would actually have much of a battlefield impact in case of a proper conventional war, even if some of them have been trained in operating heavy equipment. Maybe in a delaying deployment to allow allies to deploy themselves un-harassed, but if the defense of the country fell 100% on the shoulders of reservists after the professional force had been defeated, it would probably be more humane to surrender instead of sacrificing their lives. quote:It has little to do with politicians in this case, even the US military officials have been pushing for a development of the Common Security and Defence Policy / ESDP and its precursors for decades specifically to improve budget allocation by pooling resources (such as military hardware, training and manufacturing facilities) and eliminating surplus assets that are reducing defense flexibility in Europe. Every nation having its own inventory and its own procurement strategies leads to gross inefficiencies and sub-optimal asset composition.
|
|
#
?
Jul 22, 2016 11:23
|
|
|
jonnypeh posted:I was talking about wartime army anyway. Because other than military exercises, why else would one call up reservists? Looking at France, you call up reservists when your politicians keep expecting to use the army everywhere both in-country and abroad while at the same time slashing budget and downsizing because Austeriteus Vult.
|
|
#
?
Jul 22, 2016 11:48
|
|
|
https://twitter.com/AlRFORCEFREAK/status/756560065864302593
|
|
#
?
Jul 22, 2016 21:27
|
|
|
jonnypeh posted:Latvia has not. No they really won't. They'll be hit by artillery and cruise missiles and die in the thousands.
|
|
#
?
Jul 23, 2016 09:31
|
|
|
Regarde Aduck posted:No they really won't. They'll be hit by artillery and cruise missiles and die in the thousands. What exactly prevents the larger force from being dispersed?
|
|
#
?
Jul 23, 2016 09:46
|
|
|
Rotacixe posted:What exactly prevents the larger force from being dispersed? Reality is Civ 5.
|
|
#
?
Jul 23, 2016 12:57
|
|
I CANNOT EJACULATE WITHOUT SEEING NATIVE AMERICANS BRUTALISED!
|
Rotacixe posted:What exactly prevents the larger force from being dispersed? Latvia. Seriously, the whole country is about the size of West Virginia. A T-90 can drive from the border to the coast in about less than 7 hours, or be in Riga within 3 hours. In the event of a Russian invasion Latvian army would likely have to pull a Romanian bridgehead maneuver that the Poles did during WW2 and evacuate in the face of superior numbers to a friendly country so they can continue to fight in exile.
|
|
#
?
Jul 23, 2016 20:51
|
|
|
Young Freud posted:Latvia. The neighbors won't prevent Latvian troops from manoeuvering... Still, spreading a force of pretty homogenous conscripts over a larger area seems like a recipe for letting a force of crack enemy soldiers to pick them off.
|
|
#
?
Jul 23, 2016 23:21
|
|
|
Russia to develop their own version of Pokemon Go. https://themoscowtimes.com/news/moscow-authorities-to-launch-their-own-version-of-pokemon-go-54716 quote:Moscow City Hall has announced the launch of its own version of online game “Pokemon Go.” Russians will be asked to find and "catch" historical figures in the streets of the capital via an app called “Know Moscow.Photo.” Can't wait to find all three False Dmitrys!
|
|
#
?
Jul 25, 2016 13:42
|
|
|
Can't wait for the NKVD 1936г DLC 
|
|
#
?
Jul 25, 2016 13:53
|
|
|
Xerxes17 posted:Can't wait for the NKVD 1936г DLC What? Your LENIN is evolving! Congratulations! Your LENIN evolved into STALIN! Please use the app to report on your family members!
|
|
#
?
Jul 25, 2016 14:00
|
|
|
Xerxes17 posted:Can't wait for the NKVD 1936г DLC Wild Leon Trotsky appeared! Items -> Ice Pick
|
|
#
?
Jul 25, 2016 14:03
|
|
|
Speaking of apps and surveillance, Meduza has translated their horrifying article about the unholy union of the coding nerds, amoral enterpreneurs and police state in cyberpunk Russia: https://meduza.io/en/feature/2016/07/14/the-end-of-privacy quote:"Does this mean everybody is under control now?" the Internet show's host asked. "What if someone takes a picture of a man leaving an expensive boutique? His whereabouts could be traced, and the wrongdoers could ambush and mug him." quote:Perlin often uses the Russian equivalent for "cool": "identifying porn actresses is fun and kind of cool"; "it's cool to do something good on a global level"; "it's cool to see pictures of some celeb who's been hacked." He confesses that he liked browsing through Super.ru, a recently closed online tabloid (now a part of Life.ru). quote:"I don't give a hoot. I discuss all kinds of things on social networks. Let the feds read about my sex life and girlfriends. Business correspondence? Let them find out how much I make and who my customers are. I am genuinely convinced that no one is interested. Privacy is overrated. It's no big deal to gain access to someone's phone, so let the secret services read my conversations."  yospos bithc
|
|
#
?
Jul 25, 2016 14:41
|
|
|
HUGE PUBES A PLUS posted:Russia to develop their own version of Pokemon Go. Legendary Pokemon Vladimir Putin
|
|
#
?
Jul 25, 2016 16:34
|
|
|
Think of the frenzy this will cause with the geolocation people. Brown Moses will go nuts!
|
|
#
?
Jul 25, 2016 16:35
|
|
|
Also, I would have thought a no-brainer name for the app would have been "Potemkin-Go!".
|
|
#
?
Jul 25, 2016 16:55
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 10, 2024 21:26 |
|
|
gently caress, double-post.
|
|
#
?
Jul 25, 2016 16:55
|
|