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Orange Crush Rush posted:Her Matrix is by far the strongest defensive ability in the game and it's about as spammable as Pharah's flight, while having easily the best ult among Tanks (and a contender for top 5 Ults in the game honestly). Being a 500 block of armor is pretty big too, despite her massive headshot box because you can only crit her from the front and she will have DM up anytime you can deal big damage to her. Her range is poo poo and she's still slow, but then again that's the same with every other tank and now she has a lot more strengths then most of them. I like how they gave her the same amount of useable time on Defense Matrix while letting you use it exactly when you want. I really think it should have 3-4 sec cd if you use your whole bar so it has some management to it, rather than being intermittent interference no matter what.
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Jul 25, 2016 06:55
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Orange Crush Rush posted:If Blizzard nerfs McCree to be useless again and they do it before touching D.Va then I might have to wash my hands with this game. It would be the best way of pointing out that Blizzard can't really look at hero balance correctly. i'm sure blizzard cares deeply about you, specifically, playing the game and will quickly respond with fixes to their balancing process
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Jul 25, 2016 06:57
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Tollymain posted:i'm sure blizzard cares deeply about you, specifically, playing the game and will quickly respond with fixes to their balancing process No developer has ever cared about Orange Crush Rush's opinion.
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Jul 25, 2016 06:57
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If anything I think they'll cut D.Va's Matrix duration by 1 second, at most. She's in a really good place now and people are just upset that there's another good tank.
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Jul 25, 2016 06:58
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I'm ok with d.va and mccree wouldn't be surprised if they got tweaked again tho
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Jul 25, 2016 07:00
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D.va probably needs a small adjustment to the matrix but overall she's fine. I have no idea what they are going to do with Mcree but this obviously isn't a good place for him.
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Jul 25, 2016 07:03
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OxySnake posted:Soldier isnt bad. He can still deal good damage, has a rocket for an alt fire, good mobility and an AOE heal.
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Jul 25, 2016 07:05
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I legitimately cannot believe I'm seeing unironic complaints that D.Va, the hero everyone poo poo on only marginally less than Zenyatta, is too good.
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Jul 25, 2016 07:23
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Just make flashbang increase damage taken on the target by like 30-50% and bring his primary fall off down to like 15-20m
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Jul 25, 2016 07:26
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It's so hosed up that D.Va's signature defensive ability now allows her to defend herself and her teammates.
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Jul 25, 2016 07:29
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Bolow posted:Just make flashbang increase damage taken on the target by like 30-50% making the flashbang into a discord orb that stuns people would be literally the worst thing imaginable
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Jul 25, 2016 07:32
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I don't get why people think D.va's matrix is overpowered. It feels like it has a good amount of tradeoffs versus Rein shield. Her ultimate is cool but arguably worse than Rein's, at close range she's not really as good as him, and has meh ranged utility. I feel like she is competing largely with him for a slot, and I feel like they're on a similar level of power. You counter D.va shield by not shooting it, and you counter Rein's by shooting it. All the other tanks are really good, D.va's just finally caught up to them.
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Jul 25, 2016 07:35
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Mystery Machine posted:I don't get why people think D.va's matrix is overpowered. It feels like it has a good amount of tradeoffs versus Rein shield. Her ultimate is cool but arguably worse than Rein's, at close range she's not really as good as him, and has meh ranged utility. I feel like she is competing largely with him for a slot, and I feel like they're on a similar level of power. You counter D.va shield by not shooting it, and you counter Rein's by shooting it. All the other tanks are really good, D.va's just finally caught up to them. If you don't shoot it, she doesn't use it. How is that a counter?
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Jul 25, 2016 07:37
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Just for some perspective: if a D.Va player is using her matrix as much as humanly possible, it will still only be up just over a quarter of the time (10 seconds down for every 4 seconds up). If your team can somehow muster the superhuman power to shoot at her for 5 seconds, or even just shoot unpredictably enough that she wastes it, you'll start getting hits in.
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Jul 25, 2016 07:39
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Manatee Cannon posted:making the flashbang into a discord orb that stuns people would be literally the worst thing imaginable .5 seconds of increased damage to a stun target to make FTH worth a drat isn't gamebreaking at all  It's a way better solution than buffing FTH and making him mulch everything in a 5m radius around him with zero effort
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Jul 25, 2016 07:39
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Unoriginal Name posted:If you don't shoot it, she doesn't use it. How is that a counter?  Mystery Machine posted:I don't get why people think D.va's matrix is overpowered. It feels like it has a good amount of tradeoffs versus Rein shield. It's mainly because it can be used on reaction and has much longer range than the rectangle. D.Va can actively save teammates from Roadhog and McCree.
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Jul 25, 2016 07:40
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Bolow posted:.5 seconds of increased damage to a stun target to make FTH worth a drat isn't gamebreaking at all FTH was nerfed specifically because it allowed McCree to shut down tanks. A vuln effect would let him do the same thing he did as before the nerf. It's never, ever going to happen. Stop speculating about it.
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Jul 25, 2016 07:41
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Bolow posted:.5 seconds of increased damage to a stun target to make FTH worth a drat isn't gamebreaking at all look at what discord does to mccree, now add it to something that stuns people in place. flashbang plus headshot kills everything under reaper instantly, flashbang plus fan kills everything up to zarya in one press of a button (50% debuff makes each fan shot do 67.5 damage; pre nerf mccree did 70. there's no meaningful difference). they won't even be able to react or get away. and this is just assuming that mccree is the only one shooting them, which is probably not what's gonna happen in practice it's the worst balance idea I've ever heard. you don't debuff people with the thing that makes them incapable of moving
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Jul 25, 2016 07:45
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Brannock posted:
That was an honest question. It's an active skill rather than passive like Reinhardt's shield. With no damage limit and absorbion, rather than blocking, it can completely cancel certain ultimates. (Mei, Zarya and Reaper alll come to mind). You are forced to attack her to get her to use it, or she can just straight delete shots. I really don't get why people compare her to Rein at all.
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Jul 25, 2016 07:47
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Manatee Cannon posted:look at what discord does to mccree, now add it to something that stuns people in place. flashbang plus headshot kills everything under reaper instantly, flashbang plus fan kills everything up to zarya in one press of a button (50% debuff makes each fan shot do 67.5 damage; pre nerf mccree did 70. there's no meaningful difference). they won't even be able to react or get away. and this is just assuming that mccree is the only one shooting them, which is probably not what's gonna happen in practice It's 67.5 damage for 3 shots at best realistically it's closer to 2 instead of six Pre-nerf was 420 damage for a full FTH At 50% it would be 337.5 damage for an entire FTH 30% would be 310 damage Right now it does 270.
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Jul 25, 2016 07:52
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There are various ults where you have to make sure certain opponents' abilities are disabled before using them. So yeah, maybe Solider 76 should wait until D.Va has wasted her matrix before he turns on the aimbot, just like D.Va herself shouldn't ult if there's a Rein with an intact shield nearby.
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Jul 25, 2016 07:54
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Unoriginal Name posted:That was an honest question. It's an active skill rather than passive like Reinhardt's shield. With no damage limit and absorbion, rather than blocking, it can completely cancel certain ultimates. (Mei, Zarya and Reaper alll come to mind). You are forced to attack her to get her to use it, or she can just straight delete shots. I really don't get why people compare her to Rein at all. Because Rein shield can also nullify several ults? Solider ult, Mcree's ult, it can block Junkrat's ult, tracers, etc etc. Are D.va's some sort of magical unhittable thing for people? If you stop shooting for a second, you get her to drop her shield and you can resume for the next second. And I think the "actively save people" thing is fine. It's not like squishies can sit behind D.Va's shield. D.va's shield is the active counterpart to Reinhardt's passive shield. Like, D.va can actively save people from Roadhog, but Reinhardt can passively allow Mcree and Solider to safely shoot from behind him.
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Jul 25, 2016 07:55
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Zenyatta is a beast and really fun to play, so I like this patch.
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Jul 25, 2016 07:55
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Bolow posted:It's 67.5 damage for 3 shots at best realistically it's closer to 2 instead of six that still completely invalidates reaper, genji, and tracer by itself. it'd also stack with discord which is awful how is this in any way a good idea. like in what way could you possibly think this would be beneficial. it's a bad idea and they aren't gonna do it
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Jul 25, 2016 07:56
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Manatee Cannon posted:that still completely invalidates reaper, genji, and tracer by itself. it'd also stack with discord which is awful That's literally his loving job, to shut down flankers. Not be Widowmaker
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Jul 25, 2016 07:58
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My semi-ironic Mcree change is a small reduction to range (maybe like 70% of the way between where it is now and where it was), but give his roll punch damage and allow him to cancel it with a punch so he can flash, headshot, roll, punch.
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Jul 25, 2016 07:59
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D.Va still has a lot of the problems she used to, mainly that her guns are practically melee range, they shut her move speed down, and when you get the chance to fire on it she's much squishier than her 500 hitpoints suggests. What's changed now is she actually has a defensive ability that's useful unlike how defense matrix used to be which was like a Zarya barrier except it didn't really help you as much. Nonetheless D.Va doesn't have the ability to sustain a push like Reinhardt does because her matrix lasts for a grand total of four seconds which can be a lot of time if she's spearheading a flank into a KotH point to let a Reaper ult in peace but on maps with longer engagement distances like a fair chunk of payload and point-capture then Supercar Gautier has the right of it, if you shoot at the D.Va and force her to blow her matrix then you have 10 whole seconds to shoot her in her still just as big and exposed headbox, or she runs away I guess which is also an acceptable outcome a lot of the time. Yes, it means being judicious about when you use your ults because D.Va might eat them but that's no different than having to play around any of the dozen other things you have to keep in mind before ulting. edit; this isn't counting that some things simply ignore defense matrix, lately one of my joys has been using Zarya's M1 on cocky D.Vas and you provoke the same instinctive "use my defense" reflex from them as you do from Genjis trying to deflect Winston's tesla cannon which gives you a second or two to poke damage into them. Kai Tave fucked around with this message at 08:36 on Jul 25, 2016 |
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Jul 25, 2016 08:24
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Bolow posted:That's literally his loving job, to shut down flankers. Not be Widowmaker it doesn't just shut down flankers, it shuts down literally anything that gets within range of the flashbang
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Jul 25, 2016 09:15
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Manatee Cannon posted:it doesn't just shut down flankers, it shuts down literally anything that gets within range of the flashbang This is probably a dumb idea but if the idea is that flash/fan ought to be an anti-flanker option but at the moment it's not super efficient at it and buffing FtH itself in any way opens it up for potential heinousness, what happens if you just give the flashbang itself a flat damage raise from 25 to say 50 but otherwise leave everything else about the flash + FtH kit the same. Does a flat 25 extra damage make him better enough at using that kit to deal with flankers without inadvertently making him too good against everyone?
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Jul 25, 2016 09:33
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Manatee Cannon posted:it doesn't just shut down flankers, it shuts down literally anything that gets within range of the flashbang if mccree isn't good at killing things what the gently caress is he good at
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Jul 25, 2016 09:39
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he is good at killing things he doesn't need a loving debuff stun on top of that
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Jul 25, 2016 09:44
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Manatee Cannon posted:he is good at killing things He's good at killing things right now, but take away the range buff and he goes back to not being good at killing things, or at least not being good enough at killing things to justify his place on a team. I don't think an additional debuff on the flashbang is the thing, but he needs something because if he can't use the parts of his kit built for killing people at close range to reliably kill people at close range and he can't use his M1 to kill people at mid range then you're left with a character who isn't good enough at any range to be worth picking. Opposing Farce fucked around with this message at 10:01 on Jul 25, 2016 |
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Jul 25, 2016 09:57
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the stun debuff is a bad idea
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Jul 25, 2016 10:08
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Had my favorite Dva moment last night, in a a sudden death match on Volskaya. We were attacking and the moment we exited our spawn we noticed they have set up a Rein+Bast directly to the left. But I popped her matrix which negated him totally, so it was like Bastion wasn't firing it all. It seemed to catch everyone by surprise that we were able to stand a meter from them without being slaughtered, because both sides seemed to freeze for like a second, before we went on to crush them instantly and then cap the point. I even got her achievement as well.
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Jul 25, 2016 10:39
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I would like to see a small (2s prob) cooldown on Def Matrix "toggle" so you can try to bait her into using it early and having a little bit of time to deal damage before she can bring it back up.
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Jul 25, 2016 10:49
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FranktheBank posted:I would like to see a small (2s prob) cooldown on Def Matrix "toggle" so you can try to bait her into using it early and having a little bit of time to deal damage before she can bring it back up. It already has a 1 second cooldown between toggles though. You can check it out in the practice grounds, you can't just flick it on and off instantly. Really though, the best way to deal with defense matrix is the way you deal with a Reinhardt shield, you shoot it until it "breaks," it's just that instead of dealing 2000 damage all you have to do is convince D.Va to use up all 4 seconds of it in a go and then it's down for 10.
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Jul 25, 2016 11:05
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the current 1s is really nothing given the tick/ping rates. 2s would make it an effective 1s window of reaction, instead of requiring spider-sense.
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Jul 25, 2016 11:13
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FranktheBank posted:the current 1s is really nothing given the tick/ping rates. Okay but the point is that it's really not hard to "break" defense matrix way quicker than it takes to break a Reinhardt shield and I don't see people suggesting that needs to be nerfed. Like for real, you don't need to play mind-games with D.Va, she wants you to stop shooting at her because then she gets to keep more of her matrix in the bank, just shoot at her, don't waste your helix rockets or ults or whatever but just treat it like you would a Rein and then for 10 seconds you have the original D.Va with all her usual vulnerabilities and drawbacks. Even post-patch I honestly find that a well-played Reinhardt gives me more trouble than a well-played D.Va, and I say this as someone who plays a lot of Soldier who new D.Va has a much better matchup against now.
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Jul 25, 2016 11:30
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Prebuff McCree was absolute garbage, reflected in his usage rate week after week in comp. He could not counter flankers (who all had escapes or even direct counters), let alone deal with hovering Pharahs. Post buff McCree has just turned him into ambassador spy and above Soldier:76 overall if not better at DPS and about equal in utility, as McCree can shutdown an ult if he's attentive and quick which is damage prevented (possibly huge) vs damage being healed (if your teammates are dead you can't heal them). He awful slow, no self sustain and no escape so once a McCree has blown a flashbang he's easy pickings as his close range DPS is nothing special, Genji especially can mug the poo poo out of a McCree. I like McCree well enough and think he's in a mostly playable state, but that's different from being an acceptable state where a third of his kit is just garbage, and either fixing or replacing FTH with something better means he'd need to take a hit to LMB. The problem with that is anything below 60 damage means he'd need Zenyata or Mercy to pick targets/buff for him, otherwise he drops down a damage threshold and requires too many shots to affect a kill and he'd get eclipsed by S:76 again. So here is my dumb idea, make McCrees FTH a stance which uses up meter he stores. His LMB should have a reduced RPM (75% of current), and headshots feed into his FTH meter, and his damage should be 70-50 with the current falloff rate. When entering FTH stance, McCree moves 20% slower but reloads 33% faster, and always does minimum damage. RMB to enter stance, LMB to fire while in said stance, and you fire as fast as you can click the mouse. FTH then lasts as long as you've built up meter for it or you intentionally cancel it with another RMB. Delay between standard and FTH stances is 0.1s, flash and roll can be used while in either stance. In turn Combat Roll should become a more defensive or movement oriented ability for McCree, remove the reload, drop the cooldown to 2-3s and add either more distances to the roll or invincibility frames depending on what you want to go for.
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Jul 25, 2016 11:31
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0cbI9AXouqA This is my general experience in solo queue condensed into 5 minutes.
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