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FreudianSlippers posted:Modern man tends to forget about the chaos and death aspect of nature. The beauty of nature is largely a invention of the Romantics. Romantics could afford to see the beauty in nature since nature was not as much of a threat to them as it had been to their ancestors. See whenever I express this sentiment, people start accusing me of being a budding supervillain. It's frustrating, I tells ya. e: Although I suppose I should admit that I do see the aesthetic beauty of that image. I can't help myself. You can take the cynic out of the cultural background but you can't take the cultural background out of the cynic. Tuxedo Catfish fucked around with this message at 19:24 on Jul 26, 2016 |
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Jul 26, 2016 19:22
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FreudianSlippers posted:Modern man tends to forget about the chaos and death aspect of nature.  Chaos reigns.
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Jul 26, 2016 19:28
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FreudianSlippers posted:Similarly in Scotland elements of highland culture, which was more Celtic, only really began entering the culture of the largely Anglicized lowland Scots once the unruly highlanders had been utterly crushed. Since they were no longer threatening they could be safely romanticized. They were not longer the scary rebels but tragic heroes who had lost their battle. After that watered down versions of various highland customs could be picked up by lowlanders and integrated into the general Scottish culture. Something similar went down in the Americas with Native Americans. You can also apply this to Antichrist in terms of its appreciation of psychoanalysis and radical feminism. When He rebukes She for coming to the conclusion that women are naturally, essentially pre-disposed to evil, it's because this ultimate reversal of her critical thesis actually undermines the new hegemony of secular, post-countercultural, liberal patriarchy; which takes for granted that, of course, the reason gynocidal persecution was wrong is because witchcraft doesn't 'objectively exist' and those poor women were all 'innocent.' What doesn't occur to him is, of course, that patriarchy stands in for the banal cruelty of 'nature.' Witch-hunts were not misguided 'mania,' but lucid and deliberate actions in order to enforce social control and, in a way, to colonize and appropriate femininity at a cultural level.
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Jul 26, 2016 19:38
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The Romantic period is also where we got a lot of the spiritualism in art and horror. It was also the period where cosmic horror and man's place was questioned in the universe. Romantic period is really interesting period. I mean during that same period we also got the concept of nihilism. I mean it was the period where horror was basically given birth in a artistic sense. Hollismason fucked around with this message at 19:45 on Jul 26, 2016 |
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Jul 26, 2016 19:41
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Re-watched the first Saw movie the other night, and I have to say it's held up really well. Really good thriller with just enough gore to make it interesting. I think the first 3 Saw movies make a really good trilogy, after that they are hit or miss. There's something great about the traps and the crazy plot twists in between, but the first 3 take themselves much more seriously than the rest of the series, and the arch of those 3 end up nicely. The later ones are fun but it's more just to see how crazy the traps and plot twists get rather than being genuinely interested in the story. Also started Stranger Things and was hooked on the first episode because the Seeds were playing in the background in one scene.
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Jul 26, 2016 19:57
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InfiniteZero posted:
So that's what the fox say
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Jul 26, 2016 19:57
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The Romantics idea of nature and our relation to it was more like a hosts relationship to its parasite. And so, this idea of a paradise where all our wants and needs are provided for as well as natural beauty was all there for our taking. This idea is inherently parasitic and on top of it, lies just as much in the idea of "separateness." They just transferred God to Nature, but it's the same concept at the end of the day. This is where new agers and hippies fall short, because they talk about being "spiritual" but all they do is replace God with "The Universe," as if it is something outside of them. They seek answers from The Universe, the same way a Christian seeks an answer from God. At their core they're the same. Just ask it nicely or in the right way, and it will give you what you want. This completely misses the point. Also, I never understood this idea of something being "unnatural." Besides a couple Youtube channels, if it is possible then it's natural, whether it's GMOs or nuclear weapons. Lil Mama Im Sorry fucked around with this message at 20:13 on Jul 26, 2016 |
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Jul 26, 2016 19:57
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I identify God as the universe and both of them as hostile. I guess a more enlightened view would be to think of it as an oroboros rather than a moloch, but that's not especially comforting to the tail.
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Jul 26, 2016 19:59
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Hollismason posted:The Romantic period is also where we got a lot of the spiritualism in art and horror. It was also the period where cosmic horror and man's place was questioned in the universe. It's my favorite period of literature. It was a time of immense social upheaval in Europe and those kinds of circumstances are often favorable to the arts. To tie this back to the earlier part of the conversation, some people at the time thought Napoleon was the Antichrist, literally.
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Jul 26, 2016 20:05
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K. Waste posted:The title comes from the original premise of the film being that She discovers that Satan, not God, created the world. When this plot leaked, von Trier re-tooled it into a film about 'gynocide.' That said, the term "antichrist" is still incredibly pertinent to the film, just as all themes of stark, existential contrast to the irrevocable truth of Christ factor into historical manifestations of witch hunts and persecutions. The film is very much a successor of the silent classic Haxan. Thanks for breaking it down. It's been 7 years since I've watched Antichrist and I'm not someone who ever gets the philosophical meaning out of the movies I watch. The director's own battle with depression was built into the character "She." FreudianSlippers posted:Aside from Antichrist The VVitch is a horror film that portrays nature as something horrific with the witch as a personification of the forest. The VVitch is way more literal than symbolic, but you're right, I agree that the general tone and feel of the movie is very similar to Antichrist. InfiniteZero posted:
Small touches like that talking CGI fox are what make Antichrist extremely creepy.
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Jul 26, 2016 20:05
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Has anyone watched the other two movies in Lars von Trier's Depression trilogy, Melancholia or Nymphomaniac Vol. I & II?
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Jul 26, 2016 20:10
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They're both good.
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Jul 26, 2016 20:20
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:I identify God as the universe and both of them as hostile. I guess a more enlightened view would be to think of it as an oroboros rather than a moloch, but that's not especially comforting to the tail. Aye, but the tail is the snake. It just doesn't realize it.
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Jul 26, 2016 20:25
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Noam Chomsky posted:The Duffer Brothers, who created and direct Stranger Things, went to a private Christian university in Orange County, California. They got their first film deal the year they graduated from college - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hidden_(2015_film) - and Stranger Things is the second thing they've directed.  Oh boy, that explains a lot.
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Jul 26, 2016 20:26
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K. Waste posted:They're both good. Nymphomaniac is just okay. Melancholia is great.
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Jul 26, 2016 20:26
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LORD OF BOOTY posted:
Now, they do claim to have grown up in Durham, North Carolina. So, I dunno. Would be interesting to know more about these guys. http://www.vulture.com/2016/07/stranger-things-duffer-brothers-winona-ryder-kid-actors.html quote:We grew up in Durham, North Carolina, so really close to Duke University. We were in the middle of nowhere in Durham. We're right by, like, a tobacco farm. But we were in the suburbs and you had to go — you know, a five-minute walk and you're kind of in the middle of nowhere. Ten more minutes and you're at the railroad tracks. We didn't go to any summer camps because we just wanted to be making movies and telling stories. We started doing that very early on. Fourth grade, I think, was our first movie. Maybe they're just that drat good. My classism may be bleeding over.
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Jul 26, 2016 20:38
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HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:Nymphomaniac is just okay. Melancholia is great. Melancholia struck such a miserable chord that I don't think I could ever watch it again. It made me so sad and that was what it was trying to do. Dunst is real good.
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Jul 26, 2016 21:13
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Yeah, Melancholia hit me really hard. Nymphomaniac honestly came off as silly, but in a way that is very von Trier to do twisted as hell send ups of genre movies. In this case the sexy French nymphet coming of age movie.
HUNDU THE BEAST GOD fucked around with this message at 21:17 on Jul 26, 2016 |
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Jul 26, 2016 21:15
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Noam Chomsky posted:Maybe they're just that drat good. My classism may be bleeding over. Well, I mean, it turns out having the luxuries of idle time, an education, and relatively little commercial pressure are also good (though not necessarily sufficient) conditions for artistic output. It's not these things that condemn the rich, but that these things are denied to others.
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Jul 26, 2016 21:18
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Glamorama26 posted:Melancholia struck such a miserable chord that I don't think I could ever watch it again. It made me so sad and that was what it was trying to do. Dunst is real good. If you haven't watched Fargo Season 2 you should check it out if only for her performance which is stellar.
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Jul 26, 2016 21:26
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Scott Dereckson is also super Christian. It's not that weird to be a fundamental Christian or a Christian and really he into horror films. A lot of your favorite horror director's are also very Christan. I'd actually argue that a majority of horror has Christian imagery and influence. Most horror films can be seen as a Christian allegory. Hollismason fucked around with this message at 21:36 on Jul 26, 2016 |
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Jul 26, 2016 21:31
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HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:Nymphomaniac is just okay. Melancholia is great. Agreed. Melancholia killed my soul a bit. Amazing movie. As for Nymphomaniac, the real indulgent excess in that film was Von Trier's. He tried way too hard. That said, the threesome scene where the two guys are arguing and basically oblivious to Gainsbourg was amusing. Maybe that says more about me than anything else? I don't know. Lars Von Trier is a total loving rear end in a top hat which means he's very good at what he's doing and I'll give any of his films a chance. Also, if somebody wants to argue about which filmmakers are "artists", Von Trier is one of the first names that comes to mind. 
InfiniteZero fucked around with this message at 21:39 on Jul 26, 2016 |
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Jul 26, 2016 21:36
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Noam Chomsky posted:The Duffer Brothers, who created and direct Stranger Things, went to a private Christian university in Orange County, California. They got their first film deal the year they graduated from college - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hidden_(2015_film) - and Stranger Things is the second thing they've directed. The role was originally much more typical bad-boyfriend-jock before they met the actor and retooled Steve to have more nuance. I like the show's treatment of him, personally. He's a horny teen but he respects Nancy's boundaries, he's extremely aggressive to Jonathan but in a way that makes sense given the circumstances, he's selfish but recognizes it in himself and tries to make up for it, and he ditches his rear end in a top hat friends when he can tell he doesn't want to be like them any more. He's not a great guy or anything, he's an rear end in a top hat teenager in the process of growing out of it into a more well-rounded adult, same as Nancy (who's mostly horrible to her family for the majority of the season).
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Jul 26, 2016 21:37
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I think my thing with Von Trier is that he has a great, sick sense of humor but when he's trying to be "ha ha" funny it doesn't work at all.
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Jul 26, 2016 21:40
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HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:I think my thing with Von Trier is that he has a great, sick sense of humor but when he's trying to be "ha ha" funny it doesn't work at all. All truly great humor comes from misery and conflict, but the reaction of most people who aren't depressives is to be confused and not even realize that that's humor. e: I'm kind of talking out my rear end here, I haven't even seen Antichrist, but I gather I should.
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Jul 26, 2016 21:41
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Like the old saying goes, comedy is when something bad happens to you and tragedy is when it happens to me.
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Jul 26, 2016 21:44
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HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:I think my thing with Von Trier is that he has a great, sick sense of humor but when he's trying to be "ha ha" funny it doesn't work at all. I sorta agree but the ha-ha funny parts of Melancholia were my favorite parts
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Jul 26, 2016 21:53
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What's the best intro to Von Trier movies?
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Jul 26, 2016 21:59
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IM_DA_DECIDER posted:What's the best intro to Von Trier movies? Breaking the Waves
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Jul 26, 2016 22:00
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I don't remember finding anything funny in Dogville or Anti-Christ. Nympho Vol. 1 was pretty funny, though. Especially Uma. I never got around to Vol. 2, which is when poo poo gets mean-spirited, apparently.
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Jul 26, 2016 22:00
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Uncle Boogeyman posted:Breaking the Waves My God the plot synopsis sounds dire.
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Jul 26, 2016 22:40
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IM_DA_DECIDER posted:My God the plot synopsis sounds dire. yeah well welcome to Von Trier I guess
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Jul 26, 2016 22:41
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IM_DA_DECIDER posted:My God the plot synopsis sounds dire. You wanted an intro to Lars Von Trier, there it is.
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Jul 26, 2016 22:44
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honestly I'd say Dancer in the Dark is probably his most accessible movie, not Breaking the Waves it's still, y'know, depressing as all holy gently caress but it's the only Von Trier I haven't violently hated
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Jul 26, 2016 22:45
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Dancer in the Dark's fantastic, but it's a musical starring Bjork so those are going to be nails on a chalkboard for some people before you even get to the Von Trier aspects of it.
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Jul 26, 2016 22:47
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I wanna see a moody Von Trier vampire film. The plot synopsis is dire: the films of Lars von Trier
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Jul 26, 2016 22:52
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Franchescanado posted:I don't remember finding anything funny in Dogville or Anti-Christ.
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Jul 26, 2016 23:01
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Let me get this straight: Any movie that involves Possession, Breaking Waves, and Hellraiser #1. ObamaPhone fucked around with this message at 01:20 on Jul 27, 2016 |
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Jul 26, 2016 23:01
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SubG posted:The introductory set piece in Antichrist (2009) is one of the funniest scenes ever produced by self-conscious arthouse film. The slow motion black and white penetration shot while the child dies, set to moody orchestral music?
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Jul 26, 2016 23:02
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SubG posted:The introductory set piece in Antichrist (2009) is one of the funniest scenes ever produced by self-conscious arthouse film. You're a horrible person.
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Jul 26, 2016 23:03
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