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Quift posted:Most governments in the world spend their money sensibly. Since most countries do not have a large arms industry they don't spend anything on military research. Instead they soend their RDN money on their universities or stuff like CERN, civil space programs etc. See, I live in the actual world. You seem to live in a world where Donald Trump and his rambling hate-speech could be seen as a rational choice. There is no ironicat emote big enough. It's astonishing how you can be so unaware and still allowed out by yourself.
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Jul 27, 2016 13:13
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Quift posted:You are the one that claimed that it would be impossible for a government to invest it's RND into civilian projects. I think the word used was "Fantasy Land"? You were making a stronger claim, that you could get a 1:1 replacement of military spending with non-military spending.
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Jul 27, 2016 13:29
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Quift posted:I would thus like to give you a pat on the back and a participation trophy! nice cats. your girlfriend/wife is pretty cute. did you just get married? you could stand to gain some weight, you look like a spooky skeleton man
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Jul 27, 2016 15:46
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Reading these word salad conspiracy theory posts which without fail make my brain turn to varying degrees of mush, makes me wonder - is there any rhyme or reason to over abundance of "'s and odd use of capitalisation or is that just an indicator of mental illness?
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Jul 27, 2016 15:52
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Skinty McEdger posted:Reading these word salad conspiracy theory posts which without fail make my brain turn to varying degrees of mush, makes me wonder - is there any rhyme or reason to over abundance of "'s and odd use of capitalisation or is that just an indicator of mental illness? dude is not a native english speaker and apostrophes are weird. also yes he's probably crazy as well
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Jul 27, 2016 15:53
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It's simple, only American military research that he doesn't like is "actually" military research. Therefore no other country does military research which is why Finland invents everything. It's a pretty good conspiracy theory.
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Jul 27, 2016 15:55
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Popular Thug Drink posted:dude is not a native english speaker and apostrophes are weird. also yes he's probably crazy as well I meant in general more than just with our resident conspiracy expert. It seems to really be a thing within the culture and on the crazy people blogs about it all.
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Jul 27, 2016 16:13
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Skinty McEdger posted:Reading these word salad conspiracy theory posts which without fail make my brain turn to varying degrees of mush, makes me wonder - is there any rhyme or reason to over abundance of "'s and odd use of capitalisation or is that just an indicator of mental illness? It's pretty common for mentally ill people to do that capitalization thing to make Concepts seem much more Important than they actually Are.
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Jul 27, 2016 16:18
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Skinty McEdger posted:I meant in general more than just with our resident conspiracy expert. It seems to really be a thing within the culture and on the crazy people blogs about it all. It's simply meant to add EMPHASIS and perhaps thinking you need to add emphasis constantly results from irrationally thinking too many things are important. It's also kinda more reflective of the way you'd put emphasis on things in casual speech in a heated argument or something. Most people don't carry that over in their writing because standard English classes teach us to not do that, so it comes across as, I don't know, uncouth maybe? Really the standard ways you can use to emphasize things in text-based communication come across way more dramatic than you intend. But when you're very passionate about the thing you're talking about you'll let it slip, the same way you'd use less formal writing style in general. Also some of these people are just German, and in German it's normal to capitalize way more things than in English. 
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Jul 27, 2016 16:51
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Prester Jane's thread on authoritarians actually had her explain it, since she suffers from schizophrenia as well and used to be a conspiracy theorist on this very board. The way she puts it, schizophrenics don't necessarily have the words to express the concepts in their head, and they make up for it by using capitalization to turn plain words into proper nouns as a way of expressing the importance of them as concepts.
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Jul 27, 2016 16:53
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In a conspiracy theory for the modern age, the #SaveMarinaJoyce hashtag became trending overnight due to wild, bizarre rumors that YouTube star Marina Joyce had secretly been kidnapped (either by her boyfriend or ISIS, depending on who you believe) and was communicating to her fans through secret messages in videos and social media begging for help. Of course, the police visited and confirmed that she was still living with her mother and everything was fine. It's a kind of incredible look at how fast a conspiracy theory can spread through modern technology. All through teenage Internet detectives looking for bruises and reflections of figures in her eyes or changes in behavior, a whole narrative was constructed within a few days in which a somewhat odd person (possibly just high or mentally unwell) has in fact been taken hostage and is being forced to make videos in between beatings and rapings, using Twitter likes and heart necklaces to communicate that she's in danger. It inflated to such a degree that the police ended up being called and sent to her address. I first found out about it when a Facebook friend who's ordinarily fairly normal (outside of some questionable anti-Clinton and pro-Stein posts) shared it to try and "signal boost".
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Jul 27, 2016 19:02
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Quift posted:You are the one that claimed that it would be impossible for a government to invest it's RND into civilian projects. I think the word used was "Fantasy Land"? No, that's just you showing off that you have the reading comprehension skill of a potato. This is what I actually said: QuarkJets posted:If you cut all military-related research, not all of that money would get funneled back into civilian research (realistically, maybe up to a tiny fraction of it would be) What you've suggested a few times now is that we can just funnel all of our military research dollars into civilian research. That's a dumb fantasy. Most Americans are apathetic about scientific research, and some are even hostile toward it. But most Americans are enthusiastic about the military having all of the latest and greatest toys, and if that means having to hire some nerds in glasses to swish things around in beakers or whatever then by god let's do some science! e: At that point the question becomes "Okay so do we just invent new weapons and bombs and poo poo, or do we also use some of this military money to fund projects that could benefit everyone?" I'm enthusiastic about doing the latter, which you've idiotically suggested is impossible. I'm not even talking about the military doing things like disaster relief, I'm talking about R&D projects intended for wartime use but that were easily repurposed for other useful things, like RADAR, GPS, etc. QuarkJets fucked around with this message at 20:36 on Jul 27, 2016 |
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Jul 27, 2016 20:18
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chitoryu12 posted:In a conspiracy theory for the modern age, the #SaveMarinaJoyce hashtag became trending overnight due to wild, bizarre rumors that YouTube star Marina Joyce had secretly been kidnapped (either by her boyfriend or ISIS, depending on who you believe) and was communicating to her fans through secret messages in videos and social media begging for help. Of course, the police visited and confirmed that she was still living with her mother and everything was fine. It's almost like they're treating a real person like a tv show or ARG. I wonder how much the medium and context for the videos and their discussion (the internet, where people speculate about tv shows and read endless minutia about what went on behind the scenes on Hannah Montana or whatever) has to do with these people approaching a person like a narrative.
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Jul 27, 2016 20:35
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fishmech posted:It's simple, only American military research that he doesn't like is "actually" military research. Therefore no other country does military research which is why Finland invents everything. Please, everyone knows that Finland isn't real.
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Jul 27, 2016 20:40
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Jack Gladney posted:It's almost like they're treating a real person like a tv show or ARG. I wonder how much the medium and context for the videos and their discussion (the internet, where people speculate about tv shows and read endless minutia about what went on behind the scenes on Hannah Montana or whatever) has to do with these people approaching a person like a narrative. Since so many people who are otherwise divorced from conspiracy theories got involved in it, I'm wondering if it has something to do with a desire to be part of something exciting. Finding out that a beloved celebrity is schizophrenic or tweaking between videos isn't nearly as interesting as unveiling a kidnapping plot and saving an innocent person from mortal danger. So even though "secretly kidnapped and communicating in code" is literally the least likely option for someone to be behaving weird on camera, ordinarily normal people abandoned all logic to pursue this thread. It's kind of the same logic behind ARGs: for a short time, your life gets to be an exciting mystery just like you're a movie protagonist. Only this time they're loving around with real people instead of a game.
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Jul 27, 2016 20:55
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WampaLord posted:It's pretty common for mentally ill people to do that capitalization thing to make Concepts seem much more Important than they actually Are. Nah, some people are just loving terrible at grammar. The company I work for does transcription of recorded calls and you wouldn't believe how bad people can be at knowing how to properly write.
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Jul 27, 2016 21:23
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Anyone stay friends with a 911 truther or just gave up? I called a friend out on it and now I'm the bad guy for not respecting his opinion (respect meaning to remain silent I guess). I've already lost another friend whose now preaching constantly about the end times where Jesus will come back any day now and Obama somehow became the antichrist. Though that might change after the election.
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Jul 29, 2016 03:25
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Radirot posted:Anyone stay friends with a 911 truther or just gave up? I called a friend out on it and now I'm the bad guy for not respecting his opinion (respect meaning to remain silent I guess). I've already lost another friend whose now preaching constantly about the end times where Jesus will come back any day now and Obama somehow became the antichrist. Though that might change after the election. I wasn't close friends with him, but an acquaintance I met turned out later to be a truther and would hit me up on FB all the time to share links to conspiracy videos. For a while I would try to debunk his theories but he'd later just hit me with the same thing again. I started responding less and less and for a while now I think I've just outright been ignoring his messages. It's not worth the effort. Doesn't help in my case that the guy clearly has mental issues and comes from an abusive household so his perspective on many things is quite skewed
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Jul 29, 2016 06:48
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Radirot posted:Anyone stay friends with a 911 truther or just gave up? I called a friend out on it and now I'm the bad guy for not respecting his opinion (respect meaning to remain silent I guess). I've already lost another friend whose now preaching constantly about the end times where Jesus will come back any day now and Obama somehow became the antichrist. Though that might change after the election. in your teens and early twenties you often expand your social circle greatly as you explore your new world as a fully formed adult-ish person. in your late twenties and thirties you end up shedding a lot of those friends for various reasons. incompatible and exlcusive attitudes towards factual reality is a perfectly valid reason to cut off a relationship with an acquaintance or casual friend. at this point in my life (mid thirties) i've booted all the conspiracy theorists and other magical thinkers from my regular social circle and it's only made my life better. i guess it would be more trouble if the person was your bestie from way back. learning to cut off obnoxious, toxic, or otherwise irritating people is an underrated life skill, so long as you don't become some kind of misanthropic hermit or anything. lord knows you'll pick up enough people with goofy political attitudes when you form a lifelong relationship and end up with a whole new crop of crazy family in-laws (i got very lucky there) boner confessor fucked around with this message at 16:18 on Jul 29, 2016 |
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Jul 29, 2016 16:16
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Our local paper did a story on Alex Jones' retail empire: Inside Alex Jones’ Bizarre InfoWars Retail Empire
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Jul 29, 2016 18:03
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Sir Tonk posted:Our local paper did a story on Alex Jones' retail empire: That's depressing, I can imagine some poor old lady getting hoodwinked into blowing all her money on snake oil rather than actually going to the doctor becuase she's convinced the doctor's just want to take all her money. Which is Ironic becuase that's what Jones and others that are selling apocalypse supplies and bullshit are doing.
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Jul 29, 2016 21:51
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Sir Tonk posted:Our local paper did a story on Alex Jones' retail empire: Huh so Jones is backing Trump. Given how toxic they both are it shouldn't be surprising, but it just goes to show that Jones is probably in this purely for the money. This an age old problem with conspiracy theorists, if the conspiracy is as powerful and ruthless as is often claimed, then how could they possibly be threatened by a public political campaign? Either they would of gotten their hooks into the candidate somehow or got rid of them. And isn't Trump a millionaire from New York with decades of links and connections to "the elite" basically making the Donald the most likely member of the conspiracy? Sure he's not going to be as hated as the Clin-Ton but come on, he's even been praising Russia. But then again a lot of the right wing conspiracy types have changed their minds about Russia being key to the New World Order after Putin proved he was a right wing Conservative power house. Which again should only highlight how weak and non existent this globalist conspiracy to do something really bad is.
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Jul 30, 2016 05:44
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Popular Thug Drink posted:in your teens and early twenties you often expand your social circle greatly as you explore your new world as a fully formed adult-ish person. in your late twenties and thirties you end up shedding a lot of those friends for various reasons. incompatible and exlcusive attitudes towards factual reality is a perfectly valid reason to cut off a relationship with an acquaintance or casual friend. at this point in my life (mid thirties) i've booted all the conspiracy theorists and other magical thinkers from my regular social circle and it's only made my life better. i guess it would be more trouble if the person was your bestie from way back. learning to cut off obnoxious, toxic, or otherwise irritating people is an underrated life skill, so long as you don't become some kind of misanthropic hermit or anything. lord knows you'll pick up enough people with goofy political attitudes when you form a lifelong relationship and end up with a whole new crop of crazy family in-laws (i got very lucky there) I could kind of understand why someone might be persuaded to believe in the various conspiracies out there but I felt it wouldn't stick personally because I'd always know that I'd just be lying to myself. I've also been lucky with family in-laws too, I'm 99% sure none of them would even know anything related to what has come up in this thread. RadiRoot fucked around with this message at 06:33 on Jul 30, 2016 |
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Jul 30, 2016 06:17
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Baka-nin posted:Huh so Jones is backing Trump. Given how toxic they both are it shouldn't be surprising, but it just goes to show that Jones is probably in this purely for the money. This an age old problem with conspiracy theorists, if the conspiracy is as powerful and ruthless as is often claimed, then how could they possibly be threatened by a public political campaign? Either they would of gotten their hooks into the candidate somehow or got rid of them. Alex Jones was literally being paid by Russia Today so I'm going to guess that's not too much of a deal breaker for him.
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Jul 30, 2016 08:22
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Radirot posted:I could kind of understand why someone might be persuaded to believe in the various conspiracies out there but I felt it wouldn't stick personally because I'd always know that I'd just be lying to myself. I've also been lucky with family in-laws too, I'm 99% sure none of them would even know anything related to what has come up in this thread. Imagine how awful it must be to have a truther father or mother. My friend is in that situation. He's living with his truther parents and whenever he gets onto the topic (happens a lot I gather) his dad always says: 'SO IF THOSE CONCRETE TOWERS TURNED INTO DUST BY FALLING, THAT MEANS IF I DROP A CONCRETE BLOCK ON YOUR HEAD FROM MY ROOF, YOU'LL BE FINE? LET'S GO OUTSIDE AND TRY THAT THEN SHALL WE?!' which is obviously crazy and threatening, not an argument at all, but the guy acts like he's been proved right by the stunned silence after that. I've advised my pal to  but I guess it's not always convienent, nor does it help the crazy people to just abandon them to their madness.I occasionally worry that people unintentionally linked to truther social circles are at risk of truther stockholm syndrome. The best thing is obviously for those people to get out of such dysfunctional relations, severing as much crazy people as possible; without becoming a freaky reclusive hermit, but it's not always an option. If only there was a charity that could provide shelter for children (thankfully my friend is an adult and free to make up his own mind) or dependents whose care provider is nuts, or like a support network for normal people who feel alienated from their peers-turned-crackpots and potential terrorists. Deep Thought fucked around with this message at 15:40 on Jul 30, 2016 |
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Jul 30, 2016 15:34
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Deep Thought posted:'SO IF THOSE CONCRETE TOWERS TURNED INTO DUST BY FALLING, THAT MEANS IF I DROP A CONCRETE BLOCK ON YOUR HEAD FROM MY ROOF, YOU'LL BE FINE? LET'S GO OUTSIDE AND TRY THAT THEN SHALL WE?!' People like this are seriously the worst. It's all intimidation and zero thought.
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Jul 30, 2016 16:56
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I imagine being raises by parents with severe, poorly managed mental health issues is a problem in and of itself. How those severe, poorly managed mental health issues manifest themselves is secondary. It doesn't matter if it's Jesus is coming tomorrow or lizard people ruling the world.
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Jul 30, 2016 16:57
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Look, you gasheads, I'm sick of hearing it. Any competent engineer( which I'm) can show the error. the main design requirement was that the tenants wanted broad floors uninterrupted by annoying load-bearing columns, like every other loving massive construct on earth.These columns are there for good reasons- in the name of conservative fail-safe design. To do this, the architect devised an admittedly brilliant and novel design which had more in common with an aircraft than a urban monolith. A massive rebar and concrete central core, containing elevators, services, stairwells and all else stood like a central rigid post in the center. At the peripheral walls was a load bearing skin of carefully designed folded stainless beams. Bolted to these walls were complex frail beams of very high strength heat-treated steel rod and sheet to couple the walls to the core to prevent any buckling moment in the walls and to support the floors vertically. ... Operative words: heat-treated and buckling moment. There is a famous photo of the Twin towers right after construction that shows the sunset shining through the whole structure. it is mostly empty space. Now steel is a complex substance with a complex metallurgy. Regular I and W beams used for regular buildings is alloy A36, also known as crapsteel or 1012 mild steel. It has a yield strength of 33000 psi, which is crap. Steels can be worked, heat-treated and alloyed to beyond 200,000 psi. But the saving grace of crapsteel is that its strength does not rely on any special treatment. at 920 F, it still has 22000 psi yield strength which is why code specifies that such structures may not be loaded beyond that point. This is so if the fucken building should catch fire, it won't collapse into a pile of smoking debris. Now to the Twin towers, which did collapse into piles of smoking debris. ... Consider the following experiment: Take a 30 foot length of 4 in sch 40 steel pipe and imbed it in a footing exactly vertically. Now take a 5000 lb Chevy Suburban SUV and weld it to the top exactly balanced. you will need a crane. The pipe is perfectly capable of taking the 5000 lb weight. But how long do expect the whole mess to stay up when you release the crane? Answer: about .5 seconds. That's buckling force.The slightest lateral force, say from a dog farting nearby, is at once amplified until the whole thing fails sidewise. Now you could fix this with some lateral bracing, say some cables. ... this is exactly the situation in the stressed walls of the Towers. They experience buckling force, which is stabilized by the cross braces, translated laterally to the central core and the whole thing remains stiff, strong and rigid, like the dick I wish I still had. but... The designers knew that if ever o' ever there was a fire, those hi-tech fancy heat-treated steel beams would lose their strength and turn back into flimsy crapsteel. Cheapo Idiot solution: Use Spray-on tapioca thermal insulation. very effective as an insulator but- mechanically about as strong as Styrofoam. ... Now to 9/11: Two aircraft impact at half the speed of sound, penetrating entirely through the floors. large parts of the stressed skin is compromised. The blast force blows the flimsy tapioca insulation off the beams. The frail and open structure of the beams heat efficiently in the fire. Soon. the softened beams bend downwards under the vertical floor load, pulling in the stressed skin and causing it to buckle inward, and gravity takes care of the rest. ... So to all of you yaps yelling"Jet fuel can't melt steel beams!" Correct. But you don't need to. All you gotta do is take the steel beyond the recrystallization temperature which depending, can be from one-quarter to one half melting temperature, then most of its strength goes away. That jet fuel can do. GOT IT YOU BRAINLESS SHITSTOCKINGS? I TRUST THIS IS THE LAST I SHALL HEAR OF YOUR DAFFY KOOK CRAPPLE The Twin Towers was an example of reckless design. It's that simple. It will not be repeated. I hope. zimboe fucked around with this message at 17:07 on Aug 13, 2016 |
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Aug 13, 2016 16:53
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zimboe posted:The Twin Towers was an example of reckless design. It's that simple. it was a totally fine design, it just wasn't airliner-proof. which is ok
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Aug 13, 2016 16:58
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How many high rises are actually proof against high velocity large airliner impacts?
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Aug 13, 2016 17:21
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Popular Thug Drink posted:it was a totally fine design, it just wasn't airliner-proof. which is ok Wellll, yah, true enough. I guess you can't blame the architect for failing to predict a crazyness future. But ,still,it's a single-point failure to me, but I am a conservative designer. If I make a mistake in my kinda stuff, anything from fires to explosions or worse may result. So I'm careful. Score so far: Fires: 5 Explosions 3 Deaths 0 Well , they were prototypes. ... word. E: Giant towering mushroom clouds of nose-raping stench that caused every citizen in a half mile radius to shout their heads loose to the cops and I had to throw away my clothes: 6 That was the infamous Sewage Sludge Processor, which is much,much nastier than it sounds,in actual practice. it didn't work so well. it was prone to leaks. Large, sudden leaks. E: A word about the Sewage Sludge Processor. The object was to convert sewage sludge into a flammable oil suitable for fuel, in the name of Renewable Energy. the machine was successful in that we did get a flammable oil-like substance. It would burn,and fiercely. Lotta BTU'S. But- By God On his Throne, this substance was the very distillation of stink. one drop could make a room uninhabitable.You had to handle it like cyanide. One of my co-workers got a little on his jacket, took it home, washes it, dried it, bad mistake, his wife made him buy a new washer and dryer and they wound up throwing away most of their clothes. ... I should have save some of that poo poo-oil, there's gotta be a market somewhere for something so stinky that people will run from it. zimboe fucked around with this message at 18:06 on Aug 13, 2016 |
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Aug 13, 2016 17:25
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zimboe posted:the infamous Sewage Sludge Processor the what? which the conspiracy thread which is not in gbs cares about why?
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Aug 13, 2016 19:52
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I CANNOT EJACULATE WITHOUT SEEING NATIVE AMERICANS BRUTALISED!
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xthetenth posted:How many high rises are actually proof against high velocity large airliner impacts? Most of them, and the WTC was too. Except they're designed against smaller planes flying into them on accident, and not very big ones rammed in with as much fuel as possible! If I remember right, the main towers of the WTC were designed with the expectation that if something like an original late 1960s 737 crashed into one of them, it should stay standing long enough for people to evacuate, and maybe even stay standing straight up. Not sure if it was the 737 specifically, but it was definitely a common jetliner that was already around while the towers were being designed and built in the late 60s to early 70s. Massively expensive reconstruction or even careful deconstruction would be needed for the area to stay safe afterwards, but it would keep one tragedy (some sort of pilot error or weather situation crashing into the building) from becoming two (also thousands of more people dying in the building besides the ones creamed by the crashing jet). But of course, what actually hit the towers were 767s, much larger jets, and which had been flying for less than an hour each, both with tanks loaded up for cross-country flights. So that was not only tons of extra bulk smashing into the buildings, but far more fuel to burn than would have been planned for. You might ask why the buildings had any designs against being hit by planes in the first place, but that's because the Empire State Building got hit by a military bomber by accident back in June 1945 (killing the crew, but due to the solid construction of the ESB, the damage was repaired, and only 3 people inside the building died)- so as a result most tall buildings have at least some provision to stay standing.
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Aug 13, 2016 22:05
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IIRC the World Trade Center was designed to survive a single impact from a 707, which was the standard large airliner when they were being designed.
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Aug 13, 2016 22:31
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fishmech posted:Most of them, and the WTC was too. Except they're designed against smaller planes flying into them on accident, and not very big ones rammed in with as much fuel as possible! Right, which is why the rhetorical question about that specific situation, since there's a pretty big difference in energy and fuel there. And I know about the Empire State Building, my grandfather worked there at the time.
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Aug 13, 2016 22:38
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there's also a difference between an accidental impact, where you can presume the plane is traveling at just above stall speed as what happened to the empire state building during ww2, and a full throttle attack really though since the whole point of a skyscraper is to create a maximum of internal volume with a minimum of materials used there's only so much you can do
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Aug 13, 2016 23:06
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Popular Thug Drink posted:there's also a difference between an accidental impact, where you can presume the plane is traveling at just above stall speed as what happened to the empire state building during ww2, and a full throttle attack Pretty much, and the density is real important to avoiding the city just breaking down.
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Aug 13, 2016 23:22
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xthetenth posted:Right, which is why the rhetorical question about that specific situation, since there's a pretty big difference in energy and fuel there. And I know about the Empire State Building, my grandfather worked there at the time. When they were designing the WTC, the planes they designed against were pretty much the biggest ones around at the time though? They were trying to design against what they thought was a worst case scenario, and buildings built after 9/11 have also sought to be secure against intentional attacks with modern huge airliners when possible.
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Aug 14, 2016 00:02
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One of the other major confounding factors on 9/11 is that the airplane strikes made five of the six emergency staircases (all three in 1 WTC, two out of three in 2 WTC) completely impassable because they weren't sufficiently structurally hardened, which trapped a significant number of people above the strike zone who were otherwise safe and could have potentially evacuated.
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Aug 14, 2016 03:24
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They did stop using asbestos during the WTC construction. Given how the buildings were built (insert photo of the sunset through the buildings here) asbestos probably wouldn't have helped much. It's a hard counterfactual -- what would have happened if the WTC had had asbestos above the 40th floor? They would have almost certainly still collapsed but maybe more people could have gotten out? How many more? Would that number be offset by the increased cancer incidence because of even more asbestos being spread around post collapse? The point is moot because the Towers were a temple to Baal as predicted in Tolkein's classic "The Two Towers" but how the sacrifice manifested could have been different.
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Aug 14, 2016 05:13
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