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Saladman posted:What I haven't understood is how all the Venezuelans on the border with Cucuta have the money to go across the border and pay Colombian (i.e. real) prices for all those goods and take them back. The BsF minimum monthly wage will buy you like... some toilet paper and a bit of flour at market rates. Yeah I really have no idea how that works out for the stores... unless the owners also have family in Venezuela (very likely) and they are just sending the Bolivares back to help them. Otherwise, charing Bolivares is just useless.
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Jul 24, 2016 12:14
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Leopoldo Lopez's appeal hearing was on Thursday, and the court said that it would come back with a decision within 10 business days. Franklin Nieves, one of the two prosecutors who got him convicted, released a new YouTube video calling for the court to do the right thing and reverse the conviction. Here's the video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gwZMIWumjI0 quote:Nieves: Leopoldo Lopez’s hearing is scheduled to take place in Hall Number [nine?] at the Court of Appeals, where the defense will be able to argue against the unjust sentence which he was given. As the prosecutor of an innocent man, I have asked for Leopoldo Lopez’s forgiveness and for that of his family not to rid myself of responsibility, but to speak the truth about what took place during that farce. I also picked up a copy of Lopez's book which just came out during the last two weeks or so. It's called "Preso Pero Libre" [Imprisoned But Free], and unfortunately I believe that it's only out in Spanish. The book is made up of some of Lopez's writings from inside the Ramo Verde prison. I'm about half way through it so far, and it's been really interesting because he provides his account of the events leading up to his arrest, and explains why he decided to turn himself in. He also talks in detail about his day-to-day life in the prison, his time spent in isolation, and his views on what's happening in Venezuela, what his arrest means and what he hopes for the future of the country. Saladman posted:What I haven't understood is how all the Venezuelans on the border with Cucuta have the money to go across the border and pay Colombian (i.e. real) prices for all those goods and take them back. The BsF minimum monthly wage will buy you like... some toilet paper and a bit of flour at market rates. You're right in pointing out that the minimum monthly wage is extremely low. It's sitting at about Bs. 15,500 plus some subsidies. The minimum monthly wage in Venezuela is the second worst in Latin America only behind Cuba's. If you're earning the minimum monthly salary in Venezuela, you're raking in about $25 a month. I believe that the people who made it across to Colombia last weekend and the weekend before that were largely the ones who had the money to do so. In other words, while we saw tens of thousands of people crossing into Colombia (and I believe that a majority of them would have gone over there to shop), we didn't see all the people who didn't show up to cross because they had no money to buy anything over there anyway. It's also likely that most people didn't come back with hundreds of dollars worth of food and basic necessities. I bet that a good chunk of them came back with a relatively modest haul: a bottle of cooking oil, two bags of rice, and a pack of toilet paper. The majority of people wouldn't have come back with the $100+ hauls a family might get when they go grocery shopping for the week in North America.
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Jul 24, 2016 15:48
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Pretty much everyone that crossed the border only came back with one or two bags of stuff, usually tp, oil, detergent, stuff like that. Nobody came back with a full cart worth of stuff.
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Jul 24, 2016 15:55
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This is probably a dumb question, but what are the possibilities for emigration to somewhere else in South (or Central) America? My cousin moved from Caracas to Bogota a couple of years back, but his wife already had Colombian citizenship through one of her parents.
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Jul 24, 2016 17:13
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surrender posted:This is probably a dumb question, but what are the possibilities for emigration to somewhere else in South (or Central) America? My cousin moved from Caracas to Bogota a couple of years back, but his wife already had Colombian citizenship through one of her parents. Venezuela are Mercosur members so it'd be pretty easy to obtain legal residence, thing is those countries have a lot of problems as well, if you're going through the effort and sacrifice of moving to another country might as well go to a first world country.
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Jul 24, 2016 17:40
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surrender posted:This is probably a dumb question, but what are the possibilities for emigration to somewhere else in South (or Central) America? My cousin moved from Caracas to Bogota a couple of years back, but his wife already had Colombian citizenship through one of her parents. Most people who can get to Uruguay can get an ID and papers pretty fast. The bad part is that you would be in Uruguay. There are a lot of Venezuelans here lately though, so some people might be able to make this shithole work for them. edit: what Hefe said
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Jul 24, 2016 17:43
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Are you seriously comparing a failing state like Venezuela with countries like Uruguay, Brazil or Argentina where you can actually not starve every day and have much better living conditions? 
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Jul 24, 2016 18:14
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Yeah, I'm not saying it's an option for everybody, but it might be a good idea for entrepreneurs or those who can work remotely. My cousin is a professional photographer, so he could still eke out a living by selling photographs to his usual clients in journalism while building a portfolio of new customers in Bogota.
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Jul 24, 2016 23:13
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Finally got around to going to that restaurant, Arepas seem good, very filling for their cost. I'm not really experienced in determining accents, but it wouldn't surprise me if many of the people behind the counter were Venezuelan. If it wasn't for the lunch rush I might have asked.
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Jul 27, 2016 00:22
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wdarkk posted:Finally got around to going to that restaurant, Arepas seem good, very filling for their cost. That's great! I'm happy to hear you liked it. If you didn't get a chance, definitely try tequeños if the restaurant makes them. I get really excited when I introduce people to Venezuelan food. I've brought about a dozen people to a Venezuelan restaurant here in Toronto over the years and I love it when I hear that they've introduced their friends to the restaurant months down the line. I've recently started bringing Venezuelan candy/chocolate bars to the office whenever I drop by a Colombian bakery here to buy harina pan to make arepas at home. I've got four colleagues hooked on the stuff (Cocosette - if you can get your hands on it!). In less appetizing news, the CNE was supposed to make an announcement today on the conclusion of the first step of the referendum process. It's about 9:00 PM in Caracas, and so far the CNE hasn't said a word. The opposition said that it would try to march to the CNE headquarters again tomorrow if the CNE didn't make its announcement today. I don't know why the CNE hasn't said anything yet, unless its frantically coordinating with the government/the Supreme Court over what to do to delay the process further. Jorge Rodriguez (the head of the PSUV anti-referendum campaign) went to the CNE earlier today and had a meeting in there. When he came out, he said that he had asked the organization to revoke the MUD's political party status because of the "fraud" that it had committed during the collection of signatures. I'm not sure that the CNE will necessarily do anything with that request, since the PSUV has a tendency to say it's doing things and then just sort of forgetting to do them. Maduro's on TV now on his show. He just compared himself to Gaddafi, because he said that Gaddafi maintained order and stability in North Africa "just as we do here in Venezuela". You can watch the show here.
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Jul 27, 2016 02:01
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Chuck Boone posted:I get really excited when I introduce people to Venezuelan food. I've brought about a dozen people to a Venezuelan restaurant here in Toronto over the years and I love it when I hear that they've introduced their friends to the restaurant months down the line. Is it "Arepa Cafe"? (Or "El Arepazo"?) I live in Buffalo and haven't been to Toronto in a while... would love to try anything and everything arepas
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Jul 27, 2016 02:37
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Tequeños are only good in Venezuela imho, since the cheese has to be a very specif kind that it's only made here.
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Jul 27, 2016 02:38
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Teketeketeketeke posted:Is it "Arepa Cafe"? (Or "El Arepazo"?) Also, the owners of Arepa Cafe did what I think is a scummy thing: they trademarked their name and then sent cease-and-desist letters to other restaurants in Toronto that had the word "arepa" in their names. That'd be like being unable to open a restaurant with the word "burger" in the name because Burger King claimed the word. Anyway, I'm not sure if this is related to that fact, but I noticed that when I go to El Gordo Ex, the menu lists "@arepas". I'll see if the same is true in El Arepazo when I go there. El Hefe posted:Tequeños are only good in Venezuela imho, since the cheese has to be a very specif kind that it's only made here. Also, the key informant in the case against the Flores cousins (a man, presumably, identified in court documents as "CW-1") was murdered in Honduras in December, according to a statement made by the DEA today. CW-1 is the one who first contacted the DEA after he heard that the Flores' were looking to start up their own drug smuggling operation. Maduro's nephews were arrested in November. There's no reason to believe that CW-1's death is at all connected to this case, but... 
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Jul 27, 2016 02:59
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Chuck Boone posted:Maduro's on TV now on his show. He just compared himself to Gaddafi, because he said that Gaddafi maintained order and stability in North Africa "just as we do here in Venezuela". You can watch the show here. I mean you can't make this poo poo up when he's comparing himself to Gaddafi as far as 'maintaining order and stability'. Also pretty ballsy to remind people that you can in fact just jam a bayonet up your rear end in a top hat dictator's rear end.
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Jul 27, 2016 06:45
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Chuck Boone posted:I find Arepa Cafe to be overpriced, so I haven't been there in years. The restaurant I go to is called El Gordo Ex and it's great. I've never been to El Arepazo, but it's really close to my office and I've actually been planning to go with some of my colleagues for lunch one of these days. When I go I'll come back with a trip report! If you're down to go whenever you're up here next, let me know! Cool, I'll let you know if I'm ever up that way. I think I did have El Gordo Ex marked on Yelp for a future try... That's pretty bullshit about the "trademarking arepa" thing...
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Jul 27, 2016 15:13
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Feinne posted:I mean you can't make this poo poo up when he's comparing himself to Gaddafi as far as 'maintaining order and stability'. That is Greek tragedy levels of hubris / tempting fate.
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Jul 27, 2016 15:13
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how close to armed revolution?
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Jul 27, 2016 19:47
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LeoMarr posted:how close to armed revolution? Considering the government controls most of the guns through the military and their para-military groups I'd say not close at all.
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Jul 27, 2016 20:50
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El Hefe posted:Considering the government controls most of the guns through the military and their para-military groups I'd say not close at all. What about foreign guns?
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Jul 27, 2016 21:10
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Jerry Cotton posted:What about foreign guns? Yeah the government also controls the FARC.
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Jul 27, 2016 21:12
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I can't figure out a way to say this that doesn't sound ridiculous but, has anyone heard about that new forced labor law that was just passed by the Venezuelan government? Resolution #9855, through which a transitory labor regime is established that is mandatory and strategic for all workplaces in the country, public, private, and of social and mixed property, to contribute to the productive relaunch of the agri-food sector, establishing mechanisms for the temporary insertion of workers in those entities that are the object of special measures implemented to strengthen production. Translation courtesy of Caracas Chronicles (http://www.caracaschronicles.com/2016/07/27/great-leap-forward/).
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Jul 27, 2016 22:53
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Yeah it's mandatory forced labor we are officially North Korea
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Jul 27, 2016 22:56
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Labradoodle posted:I can't figure out a way to say this that doesn't sound ridiculous but, has anyone heard about that new forced labor law that was just passed by the Venezuelan government? what in the gently caress. So now every working citizen can be possibly placed under state run slavery?
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Jul 27, 2016 22:56
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Itt Leftits are dumbfounded when socialist governments instill Martial Law and forced agricultural labor. I guess every socialist country has to go throigh a famine or two before the low population inflates their GDPC so higj that they look like a first world country. oh wait
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Jul 27, 2016 23:51
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I read about this late last night right before going to bed, filed it under "too stupid to be real", and passed out. I was sad this morning when I woke up and realized it was an actual thing.Hugoon Chavez posted:what in the gently caress. So now every working citizen can be possibly placed under state run slavery? I was trying to think about what this might look like in practice and I just couldn't imagine a scenario where the government starts moving office workers from Caracas into fields to have them plant potatoes or whatever without there being an explosive nation-wide rebellion. Part of me thinks that they just put this out half-assed without much thought, and certainly without the intent of putting it into practice on a large scale. Also, the Minister of Urban Agriculture said yesterday that the government had a plan to have the country produce its own hallaca fillings this Christmas. The plan is pretty simple: quote:Achieving this goal will require 3,472,000 kilograms of vegetables, mostly of short-cycle crops, meaning that in 90 days we could start harvesting (...) We will produce 4,960,000 kilograms of [animal protein] from vegetable [feed], meaning 80,000 pigs, 593,000 hens and 80,000 eggs.
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Jul 28, 2016 00:03
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Pretty sure the intent is to take specific people/groups* and send them to the labour camps. * intellectuals, for example. They're always trouble.
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Jul 28, 2016 00:08
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The Lone Badger posted:Pretty sure the intent is to take specific people/groups* and send them to the labour camps. teachers intellectuals, political dissenters, revolutionary leaders. when do the US arms shipments start
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Jul 28, 2016 00:11
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Chuck Boone posted:I read about this late last night right before going to bed, filed it under "too stupid to be real", and passed out. I was sad this morning when I woke up and realized it was an actual thing. Pretty much the same on my end, I read something about in on Twitter and thought it was some crazy rumblings, then woke up to find it had been published in the gaceta nacional. I'm thinking this must be the work of the military since it seems like exactly the kind of thing some goon would conjure up instead of taking rational economic measures. My second thought is that if they choose to really go through with it, they'll start with public sector workers and that's where poo poo will break loose. In the meantime, the MUD called another half-assed protest today. I don't know what the gently caress to think anymore.
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Jul 28, 2016 00:20
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OK now I feel like we need to change the thread title. Venezuela: Now Featuring Cultural Revolution
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Jul 28, 2016 00:24
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Venezuela Year Zero
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Jul 28, 2016 00:38
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Venezualens should be cheering. its a full blown communist totalitarian police state now just how Comrade Chavez wanted it.
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Jul 28, 2016 00:41
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So, can now fishing companies buy Venezuelan slaves from their government instead of buying from North Korea's? The costs for shipping slaves will be much reduced
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Jul 28, 2016 00:55
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I translated the entire resolution:quote:FIRST: A special obligatory, transitory and strategic regime is established for all work entities in the country, public, private, social or mixed, that contribute to the re-starting of production in the agricultural sector, which establishes mechanisms for the temporary insertion of workers in those entities which are the objects of special measures implemented to strengthen their production. To this effect, the constitutional and legal goals when it comes to security and the defense of the nation in its offensive against the economic war will act as fundamental guidelines with the objective of increasing and strengthening production in those work entities of social interest related to the agricultural sector. The TL;DR:
wdarkk posted:OK now I feel like we need to change the thread title. Labradoodle posted:Pretty much the same on my end, I read something about in on Twitter and thought it was some crazy rumblings, then woke up to find it had been published in the gaceta nacional. I'm thinking this must be the work of the military since it seems like exactly the kind of thing some goon would conjure up instead of taking rational economic measures.
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Jul 28, 2016 01:08
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wdarkk posted:OK now I feel like we need to change the thread title. Venezuela: Hey, that Pol Pot guy had a few good ideas...
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Jul 28, 2016 01:12
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hire workers for high wages, by happenstance my uncles farm needs workers. bait people into farm jobs then fire them when done. slavery in the making. all thanks to US imperialis. right chavists
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Jul 28, 2016 01:12
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El Hefe posted:Yeah it's mandatory forced labor And unlike the Black slaves who built the White House, Venezuelans will not be well fed.
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Jul 28, 2016 01:37
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Venezuela: hold my place in line for the next 60-120 days, won't you?
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Jul 28, 2016 01:42
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I imagine if there are any competitive industries left you could kneecap your rivals by paying a farmer to "request" their workforce. Can you ask for workers by name? That's the way the Imperial Japanese Army screwed the Imperial Japanese Navy (via Draft Board).
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Jul 28, 2016 01:57
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wdarkk posted:I imagine if there are any competitive industries left you could kneecap your rivals by paying a farmer to "request" their workforce. The various figures in the Nazi party did similar as I recall. Not enough workers in Herr Goering's tank factory? Just send the SS around to arrest workers from the other tank factories!
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Jul 28, 2016 02:21
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It's really hard to make sense of this right now because of how unprecedented it is and because of how it was announced (it wasn't). I don't know if this is true in every civil law country, but in Venezuela laws and regulations are "created" in what is called the Gaceta Oficial. It's a government publication that acts as an official announcement for new law/resolutions. If the National Assembly passes a law, its publication in the Gaceta Oficial isn't a surprise to anyone who reads the news. However, this regulation wasn't debated at the National Assembly, so the first anyone is hearing of it is through this publication. If no one read the Gaceta Oficial for July 22nd, no one would have known about it. Anyway, the resolution doesn't explicitly allow for workers to be requested by name. However, I don't suppose that it'd be impossible for someone to specifically request a particular worker, so long as that worker meets the three requirements set out in article two of the resolution (physically able to do the work/have the theoretical/technical knowledge to do the work). This is all conjecture, of course, but you could go thinking of all the different ways this could serve the purposes of rivalries between powerful individuals involved in the agricultural industry. Again, because this whole thing is just so unprecedented, it's hard to imagine how this might actually look in practice. I have a hard time believing it will be implemented in a large scale at all. I don't think farmers in Barinas are going to be asking Polar officer workers in Caracas to go plant sunflower seeds for them. I think that we're more likely to see farmers asking other farmers for workers (or factories asking other factories for workers), or as Labradoodle pointed out earlier, public sector workers getting shifted around. I think that the kind of public sector workers likely to be picked for this would be the most marginalized simply because they'd be the easiest targets to push around. Chuck Boone fucked around with this message at 02:44 on Jul 28, 2016 |
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Jul 28, 2016 02:32
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