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Oh, forced labor for residents is hardly unprecedented in Venezuela. It's just that the last time it was in effect, it was still part of the Spanish Empire. 
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Jul 28, 2016 02:43
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Is agriculture in Venezuela nationalized or something?
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Jul 28, 2016 02:56
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Next up: a bold plan to increase Venezuela's domestic steel production.
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Jul 28, 2016 03:36
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The Lone Badger posted:Next up: a bold plan to increase Venezuela's domestic steel production. Also, time to do something about those sparrows.
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Jul 28, 2016 03:49
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eigenstate posted:Is agriculture in Venezuela nationalized or something? Like a lot of other government measures, this one can't work because it's based on a fictitious assessment of what the problem is. The resolution cites the "fighting the economic war" as necessitating this forced labour transfer system, as if 1) the economic war is a real thing, and 2) labour shortages are what's causing the scarcity. Neither of those things is true, so even if the government were to implement the measure full-force it just wouldn't work. How many potatoes can 50 workers harvest from a field that produces 0 potatoes a month? How about 100 workers?
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Jul 28, 2016 03:50
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poo poo's so hosed up it ain't funny not one bit. Animals go hungry in Venezuela zoos due to shortages http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-36911231
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Jul 28, 2016 03:54
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Not only zoos but animal shelters as well, people used to donate bags of purina and stuff but that poo poo is way too expensive now, its sad stuff.
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Jul 28, 2016 04:07
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El Hefe posted:Not only zoos but animal shelters as well, people used to donate bags of purina and stuff but that poo poo is way too expensive now, its sad stuff. I'm amazed prisoners aren't starving to death either. Who is feeding them? I imagine relatives can buy off guards easily to smuggle things into prison, but that can't possivly be feeding everyone (if their relatives even have the inclination and finances to do so).
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Jul 28, 2016 05:07
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If history is any indication, unless Venezuela imposes draconian controls on its citizens, those forced laborers are going to work the absolute minimum amount they can get away with, while stealing as much produce they can to feed themselves and their hungry families back home, thus plunging the farm's surplus production to zero.
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Jul 28, 2016 05:51
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eigenstate posted:If history is any indication, unless Venezuela imposes draconian controls on its citizens, those forced laborers are going to work the absolute minimum amount they can get away with, while stealing as much produce they can to feed themselves and their hungry families back home, thus plunging the farm's surplus production to zero. After that doesn't come the point where the state purges the unfaithful
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Jul 28, 2016 05:53
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I feel like I've said this before, but the Venezuelan government is composed of real life Ayn Rand villians.
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Jul 28, 2016 06:33
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Patrick Spens posted:I feel like I've said this before, but the Venezuelan government is composed of real life Ayn Rand villians. Following closely in the footsteps of the original real life Ayn Rand villains that inspired the woman herself!
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Jul 28, 2016 06:56
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Hermsgervørden posted:Venezuela: hold my place in line for the next 60-120 days, won't you? This is no problem: for years now, it's illegal to fire people form any company. My mom and his cousin have a small print shop and they can't fire some of their workers that, knowing that the law exist, work one hour a day and boycott the whole thing whenever the bosses complain about it. Saladman posted:I'm amazed prisoners aren't starving to death either. Who is feeding them? I imagine relatives can buy off guards easily to smuggle things into prison, but that can't possivly be feeding everyone (if their relatives even have the inclination and finances to do so). Prisons in Venezuela are not what you picture at all. Basically there's an inmate that rules the prison, everyone else gets food and commodities based on their work for the pran. If your family pays the boss then you're safe that month, and might get food too. The Prans are usually close to the government so they probably get enough to control their prison.
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Jul 28, 2016 08:15
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Saladman posted:I'm amazed prisoners aren't starving to death either. Who is feeding them? I imagine relatives can buy off guards easily to smuggle things into prison, but that can't possivly be feeding everyone (if their relatives even have the inclination and finances to do so). The state of Venezuelan prisons is as surreal as many other aspects of the country. As Hugoon Chavez pointed out, prisons tend to be run by an individual known colloquially as the pran. I think the word is an acronym for Preso Rematado Asesino Nato, which roughly means "Absolutely a prisoner and born killer". The pran runs the jail like a fiefdom, and organizes all of the smuggling in and out of the prison. Like Hugoon said, the pran and his people will charge for protection (which I think is called vacuna in Venezuela, right?). If you don't pay, you're in trouble. For a good idea of what a prison with a solid pran operation looks like, check out this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iRoYZhiRiCw (EDIT: I just remembered that there's another famous video from the San Antonio prison. It's here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8AqmCWeN7Nc. In that video from last year, inmates are mourning the loss of a former pran who was murdered after being released. I believe San Antonio is closed now). There are other prisons that are more akin to dungeons. The most famous one is probably La Tumba (The Tomb), which is in the basement of the SEBIN headquarters in Caracas.
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Jul 28, 2016 15:08
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Chuck Boone posted:EDIT: I just remembered that there's another famous video from the San Antonio prison. It's here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8AqmCWeN7Nc. In that video from last year, inmates are mourning the loss of a former pran who was murdered after being released. I believe San Antonio is closed now). This is a good video to show every time people ask about armed revolution. These are the people that worked for someone connected to the government and they are in prison. Imagine the kind of firepower they have on the outside.
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Jul 28, 2016 15:15
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I know someone who's currently in prison -he's really dumb and got involved in some poo poo- and some inmates run somewhat legitimate businesses on the inside, he has a food cart with another guy and they sell hotdogs and burgers right from inside the prison, they just have to pay the guards to allow them to bring the materials and the pran for protection.
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Jul 28, 2016 15:19
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That doesn't sound nearly socialist enough to possibly work in practice - the government should set the price he's allowed to sell hot dogs at in order to ensure he's not acting as an imperialist agent.
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Jul 28, 2016 15:23
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The Guantanamo prisoner we lost is in Venezuela now and wants to go to Turkey. I guess he's your problem now.
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Jul 28, 2016 15:33
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Polidoro posted:The Guantanamo prisoner we lost is in Venezuela now and wants to go to Turkey. I guess he's your problem now. He's gonna put a jihad on you because you lied to him and told him you were going to bring his family to Uruguay lol
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Jul 28, 2016 15:36
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We put a Jihad on Venezuela because that's his name lol
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Jul 28, 2016 15:40
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I wonder what happened to all those Syrians we took in, the news never mention them anymore.
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Jul 28, 2016 15:45
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El Hefe posted:I wonder what happened to all those Syrians we took in, the news never mention them anymore. soylento verde
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Jul 28, 2016 15:47
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El Hefe posted:I wonder what happened to all those Syrians we took in, the news never mention them anymore. They probably escaped on a flight to Raqqa and claimed asylum from Venezuela.
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Jul 28, 2016 16:36
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The three deputies from Amazonas who were prevented from joining the National Assembly by the Supreme Court were finally sworn in today. The timeline of events in that case goes something like this:
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Jul 28, 2016 23:20
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4:40 The Rabbit and the Virgin Mary. The two icons.
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Jul 29, 2016 03:44
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Chuck Boone posted:The three deputies from Amazonas who were prevented from joining the National Assembly by the Supreme Court were finally sworn in today. If the opposition actually, really cared about removing Maduro at this point in time, they would simply stick to their thesis of the TSJ being formed illegally and remove the magistrates elected in December. The government will bitch, PSUV will bitch, they will stick to their usual script, but they'll be now entirely unable to legally do anything to keep Maduro in power, which thus forces them to take illegal actions, which will result in the utter destruction of PSUV both domestically and abroad as you can now actually put them to trial. This is what the opposition should have done in loving January, when popular support was at it's highest, they are still far more popular than the government, but things won't stay that way if they keep calling for protests in loving Bello Monte.
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Jul 29, 2016 07:49
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More tales from Venezuela: A friend's uncle spent 14h in line in order to buy some stuff in Valencia. He arrived home and then had a heart attack due to exhaustion and died. He didn't even get to buy much. This is also the same friend that had his 8 yo nephew witness a gunshot murder.
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Jul 29, 2016 08:06
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Christ almighty, it sounds like Venezuela is just dying. Not "being torn apart in a horrible civil war" dying, dying as in a person dying. Like it's just slowly rotting away, with nobody willing or able to pick it back up. Generations from now, our children will look at it as the Somalia of Somalias, a hellhole that just is, and nobody can remember how and why it got there. What a terrible fate. 
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Jul 29, 2016 08:37
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Gen. Ripper posted:Christ almighty, it sounds like Venezuela is just dying. Not "being torn apart in a horrible civil war" dying, dying as in a person dying. Like it's just slowly rotting away, with nobody willing or able to pick it back up. Generations from now, our children will look at it as the Somalia of Somalias, a hellhole that just is, and nobody can remember how and why it got there. What a terrible fate. You put to words what I've been feeling, watching this thread, it's like a nightmare unfolding in realtime, and I just cant imagine what those poor people are going through. What's the endgame? Millions starving to death? A North Korea like state?
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Jul 29, 2016 15:09
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gobbagool posted:You put to words what I've been feeling, watching this thread, it's like a nightmare unfolding in realtime, and I just cant imagine what those poor people are going through. What's the endgame? Millions starving to death? A North Korea like state? Endless riches to them and their family, at any and all expense. Ironically enough considering the whole idea that Venezuela is "socialist", but it's due to greed that Venezuela is how it is. Their rise is the story of how repressed, communist, blue collar workers meteorically rose into the highest political positions in the country, on the backs of a narcissistic liar, the sort who everyone likes, who then, much like what we've seen so many times before from lottery ticket winners, squandered every penny that came across them, the intoxicating fumes of luxury turning them into something far worse than the people they once fought against. They're so far gone into the haze of their riches that they don't care how many people are going to die from the lack of medicine or starve from the lack of food over the money they steal. They became the bourgeoisie they claim to hate so much, and there's no curing the bastards.
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Jul 29, 2016 15:25
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BBC has a front-page article now from a Venezuelan-UK citizen who went back to do some reporting on the food crisis: http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-36913991 quote:After threatening to kick me out of the area, [the Catia colectivo] agreed in the end to show me what the CLAP was aiming to achieve. I was taken to see a barren field - "which we aim to have ready for crops in eight months" - and several chili plants waiting to be planted.
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Jul 29, 2016 19:26
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I'm not sure how forced labor is supposed to solve the food crisis. The problem isn't the labor supply, it's that food must legally be sold for a fraction of what it costs to produce. Even if labor was free, fertilizer, equipment, fuel, and expertise have to be imported. The agricultural sector is the least developed of any South American country, that's not the sort of problem that can be fixed in 8 months. How will any of this be payed for?
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Jul 29, 2016 19:44
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Even if you COULD solve the problem in eight months (which you can't) that does not change the essential problem that there is not enough food right now. Like yes looking to the long-term is important but not when you've got people actively starving now.
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Jul 29, 2016 19:52
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I dont know posted:I'm not sure how forced labor is supposed to solve the food crisis. The problem isn't the labor supply, it's that food must legally be sold for a fraction of what it costs to produce. Even if labor was free, fertilizer, equipment, fuel, and expertise have to be imported. The agricultural sector is the least developed of any South American country, that's not the sort of problem that can be fixed in 8 months. How will any of this be payed for? Confiscation of the property of anyone who doesn't toe the PSUV's line.
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Jul 29, 2016 20:48
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Q: What's a sardine? A: A whale after 10 years of socialism.
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Jul 29, 2016 20:54
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Saladman posted:BBC has a front-page article now from a Venezuelan-UK citizen who went back to do some reporting on the food crisis: Venezuela has the CLAP?
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Jul 29, 2016 20:59
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I dont know posted:I'm not sure how forced labor is supposed to solve the food crisis. The problem isn't the labor supply, it's that food must legally be sold for a fraction of what it costs to produce. Even if labor was free, fertilizer, equipment, fuel, and expertise have to be imported. The agricultural sector is the least developed of any South American country, that's not the sort of problem that can be fixed in 8 months. How will any of this be payed for? Well my parents wrote their dissertations on collectivist farming in Venezuela and are hardcore socialists so they're both qualified from at least a management perspective and they'd be happy to do it except for the whole they hate Maduros guts, consider Chavez a revolutionary traitor and they're kind of old now.
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Jul 29, 2016 21:45
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PSUV deputy Jorge Rodriguez said today that the PSUV had filed a motion with the TSJ to 1) declare yesterday's swearing-in ceremony of the Amazonas deputies null, and 2) declare any act by the National Assembly as long as the three deputies are part of it null. Rodriguez said:quote:We've introduced requests at the Sala Electoral [Electoral Chamber] and the Sala Constitucional [Constitutional Chamber] so that the court can declare yesterday's act illegal as well as any acts that come out of an Assembly that is formed illegally, and that it evaluate what are the concrete responsibilities that deputy Ramos Allup bears for these illegal acts. It's hard to say what will happen because as fnox said the opposition is a bit spineless, but the most likely scenario is that the TSJ will grant both requests and the National Assembly will refuse to kick the deputies out. The result will be that the TSJ will declare everything the National Assembly does null and with no effect, which is exactly what it has been doing over the past 7 months so nothing will change. Also, Henry Ramos Allup claims to have a source in the TSJ, and he says that the court is about to issue a ruling ordering the arrest of the Amazonas deputies, possibly for "usurping powers" or something along those lines. Allup and his source (if it exists) have been wrong before, so we'll see.
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Jul 29, 2016 23:04
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Feinne posted:Even if you COULD solve the problem in eight months (which you can't) that does not change the essential problem that there is not enough food right now. Well, there's no real short-term solution either as long as the PSUV is in power, since they are smart enough to not take the evil imperialist food aid that's loaded with chemtrails and GM crops with CIA-manufactured mind control drugs. It really seems like Venezuela is in a slow-motion holodomor. I wonder how long it will take until old people and children start to die of malnutrition at a large scale. I'm actually amazed people who make no income at all (like not even the $15/mo minimum wage) are not already starving to death, or if they are it's so well hidden that it's not covered even by social media. loving horrifying, it's even worse than Zimbabwe.
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Jul 30, 2016 00:27
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Gen. Ripper posted:Christ almighty, it sounds like Venezuela is just dying. Not "being torn apart in a horrible civil war" dying, dying as in a person dying. Like it's just slowly rotting away, with nobody willing or able to pick it back up. Generations from now, our children will look at it as the Somalia of Somalias, a hellhole that just is, and nobody can remember how and why it got there. What a terrible fate. same. it feels like watching those cases about "faith healing" and how some kid dies of something fixable because the parents are monster and or idiots. I dont think Venezuela can be saved in the short term at least while the PSUV reigns. I just dont know why people havent risen up yet.
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Jul 30, 2016 00:55
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