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Devlan Mud posted:The idea that scum's advantage is ignoring stress with regards to maneuvering. And that Scum's crew options rely significantly on generating stress as a cost or having no/little downside for being stressed. Zuckuss Dengar K4 Security Droid 4-L0M (ion is a much more significant cost, but in a big ship you basically get one for free) All of these crew cards are fantastic, 3 points or less, and work regardless of stress level or even whether your target is in arc or not.
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Jul 31, 2016 04:36
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Then there's the more situational Boba and Bossk(basically demands gunner which means YV-only), even Greedo isn't too bad. The four your mentioned are the big ones, though. The party bus and dengaroo are basically the only time you see zuckuss though because they're both ships that just pile on all the stress and use it on any paint on the green dice. In that sense it's extremely powerful. 4-Lom likewise was used on the party bus and trip jumpmasters where you were only going to use it on two shots at most anyway.
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Jul 31, 2016 04:48
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Also the thing about Hera is that she's really only good on the Ghost, which is the only ship Rebels have that's set up to take good advantage of what she offers. I mean it makes sense, they're part of the same expac, but Hera is for all practical purposes pretty much just an upgrade for the Ghost until FFG releases another ship with a bunch of good upgrade options and a dial that synergizes well with her ability. I mean what else are you gonna put her on? A Falcon? An Outrider? A B-Wing (lol)? Hera goes good with the Ghost because you can combo her, an FCS, and Han Solo crew all on the same ship, K-Turn whenever you want, not give a gently caress about stress, and shoot people with a 4-red primary while still acquiring target locks and maximally optimizing your attacks. The Scum crew options, meanwhile, go great on pretty much everything. Some combos work better than others but they still aren't as ship dependent which means that every new Scum ship with a crew slot is another potential great combo waiting to happen.
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Jul 31, 2016 04:51
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Kai Tave posted:Also the thing about Hera is that she's really only good on the Ghost, which is the only ship Rebels have that's set up to take good advantage of what she offers. I mean it makes sense, they're part of the same expac, but Hera is for all practical purposes pretty much just an upgrade for the Ghost until FFG releases another ship with a bunch of good upgrade options and a dial that synergizes well with her ability. I mean what else are you gonna put her on? A Falcon? An Outrider? A B-Wing (lol)? Hera goes good with the Ghost because you can combo her, an FCS, and Han Solo crew all on the same ship, K-Turn whenever you want, not give a gently caress about stress, and shoot people with a 4-red primary while still acquiring target locks and maximally optimizing your attacks. I actually think Ezra crew is more useful than Han crew on Hera because you get a stacking set up modifiers rather than either, and Ezra works even if you have to switch targets. He's 1 point more, though- this comes from someone who was playing 2 ghosts and an A-wing for a while.
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Jul 31, 2016 04:56
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So at my FLGS I heard the store manager casually mention to someone (an employee I think) that the star wars set is going to be out next week. I asked to get confimration, it's Heroes of the Resistance!
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Jul 31, 2016 05:03
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canyoneer posted:Tournament I'm going to tomorrow is an interesting format. Pay $15, bring a 100 point list, and receive a random small ship booster pack. Use the ship and upgrades included in the blister to add 31 points to your list, so a max of 131 points. No other "outside" upgrades can be added to the list besides those in your booster pack. (if you open a Y Wing, hope you like Ion Cannon Turrets!) OK, so I brought this. This ended up having 30 people in it (wow!) 4 rounds. You get a ship randomly dropped on you at the beginning. I ran Kanan Ghost/Phantom with Biggs, and pulled a B Wing pack. A Dagger Squadron pilot with Autoblaster and Fire Control System is exactly 31 points. Nice. First matchup was with a dude with a fully loaded Soontir, Predator Vader with EU and ATC, and Palpmobile. His random pack was an A wing, he chose Jake with Push the Limit. I got Palpatine pretty early, but just couldn't handle the Range 1 Soontir flanks. He was really good about keeping his stuff within Range 1 of the big ship, to avoid the TLT shots. Lost that one  28-131Next match was a Dengaroo, and he opened a Starviper. So he had Guri with Autothrusters. He brought Dengar in hard and fast, and he put damage on literally all of my ships. He attempted a sloop and got parked on an asteroid, with 3 hull left. At the same moment, Manaroo (with Gonk) was in the rear arc of the Ghost at Range 2, which means she ate a primary attack for some damage as well as a TLT attack for 2 added stress on Manaroo. At that point, the match was pretty well decided. Dengar had like 12 stress and no way to get a focus, and Manaroo had to shed 3 stress before she could start taking actions and handing out tokens again. I blasted Dengar on the next turn, and then Manaroo in the round after (with the B wing finishing off Guri for the win). Kanan's ability worked really really well that match, a 1 die attack at range 2 from Manaroo on the Ghost was not very scary. 131-0 Third one was against a kid. He was probably like 9, and brought Fat Han (Predator, EU, C3PO, Gunner) with 3 Z's, and his blister pack was the X Wing expansion. He ran Wedge with Expert Handling (good choice, kid!) This was pretty un-fun. I was pretty sure that I could clobber this list even on a bad day, and I did. His play was so sloppy (because he's a little kid), and he was bumping and bouncing ships around all over. Was even just eyeballing (poorly) where a ship should land when the movement template was overlapping a ship. Don't bring kids that young to compete in tournaments, sheesh. Frustrating to play against, and unsatisfying to win against. Biggs got in a great spot behind the Ghost's tactical jammer, and I killed Han in 3 rounds of shooting. Ghost with Kanan was a nightmare for a ship like Fat Han. I could use Kanan's ability to have him roll 2 instead of 3 at the Ghost, and he was pretty likely to hit with one of those 2 because I was rolling no green dice, which means he was maxing at 2 hits from Han each turn and could never trigger gunner. I also could pop out 4 TLT shots on Han each round (thus, shutting down his C-3PO for 3 attacks) and I stressed him with both attacks out that rear arc. A double stressed Han is not that scary to a TLT ship. Won that one 131-0 Fourth one was against one of our local sharks. He brought a 7 TIE swarm, (Howlrunner with Crackshot, 3 Black Crack and 3 Academy TIEs) and opened up a TIE Bomber, which he loaded up with Captain Jonus, Advanced Proton Torpedos, and Adrenaline Rush for 131 points. I was really proud of how I did in this game. I pulled off an excellent flank and ruse to turn all his TIEs the wrong way, with 3 big honkin asteroids between the Ghost and the swarm, but the B wing rolling up on the flank gunning for Howlrunner. He had initiative. TLT shots put a damage on Howlrunner. Jonus and Howlrunner couldn't put the B Wing down with their shots, so that means the Black Cracks were going to blast him, but he was still on the table due to simultaneous fire rule. He had a range 1 shot on Howlrunner with Autoblaster cannon before being removed, 2 natural hits pasted the ship. He went in like a little screaming missile and did his job before exploding. At that point, I pulled off a great K turn with Biggs to put him juuuust on the far side of the Ghost, but facing back towards the swarm. He turned what should have been 1 more turn of being shot at into 3, returning fire each turn. Guy got some TIEs stuck on asteroids, and I really just outfoxed him in the maneuvering game with the Ghost. Time got called when he had 2 or 3 TIEs left and a lonely, pillowfist bomber that was never going to close to range 1. If I had one more round of shooting, I probably could have won on points. Ghost is just too fast on those outside lanes and those TLTs would just work over those TIEs. Lost on points, less than 15 point differential Ended up leaving with the new Predator Alt Art and the IG88-C alt art 
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Jul 31, 2016 05:03
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Foolster41 posted:So at my FLGS I heard the store manager casually mention to someone (an employee I think) that the star wars set is going to be out next week. I asked to get confimration, it's Heroes of the Resistance! My uncle at Nintendo said..
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Jul 31, 2016 05:06
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One of the local stores posted a screenshot from their order form that says availability is in September, so I'd be surprised if August was a thing that happens
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Jul 31, 2016 05:17
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It does look more and more likely that we'll see a GenCon release, though
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Jul 31, 2016 05:33
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canyoneer posted:One of the local stores posted a screenshot from their order form that says availability is in September, so I'd be surprised if August was a thing that happens Maybe he said next month (Meaning because it's the end of July, September) and I really misheard him. 
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Jul 31, 2016 07:01
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They haven't even started to spoil it. The Shadowcaster is next, and then maybe HOTR, though they might be cheeky and break it into new Falcon stuff and new T-70 stuff. So yeah I wouldn't expect it so soon. I just hope the T-70 pilots are cool and good.
Eimi fucked around with this message at 07:25 on Jul 31, 2016 |
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Jul 31, 2016 07:13
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zVxTeflon posted:spaceinvader Whats your current list? Maarek Cracktor Swarm. When it's on and the luck is average or better, I can kill Dengaroo almost trivially - it was designed to melt a jumpmaster in one round from range 2 after all - but between poor dice luck and poor decision making I've lost to Dengaroo a bunch recently. He's just popping black squads left right and centre, or I'm firing with full mods at him and not even being able to crack shot damage through - and the unreliability of Maarek's TB is making me lean towards going back to the Ryad variant where she has a crack shot - but that variant just hard-loses to Dash. The trouble is that it's a jousting list, so when Dengar's luck is even slightly above average, he wins, because he's still the most efficient jouster in the game running up against a similarly efficient jouster. And the frustrating thing about it is that I don't think it does anything at all to improve the meta, it just replaces on engine of 'get 4 hits always' with another, only this one is 'get 4 hits always AND reroll all your opponent's successful green dice' - which still means that palp/aces is least affected by it of al the major archetypes because palp/aces is the only list that can reliably generate 3 evades from all blank dice. My gut feeling is that the way to get things back on track is to bring out some kind of mechanic that punishes people for taking stress from things that aren't red manoeuvres. That's the core part of all three of the major bugbear lists right now - palp/aces PTLs, Dengaroo PTLs AND Zuckusses/OCR4s, JM15k OCR4s. But I'm wary of direct-counter mechanics like that. My real trouble is that I'm not sure what i can run as Imps or Scum that counters Dengaroo, other than Palp/Aces (I don't have Palp and see next comment) and Dengaroo itself (and despite my aversion to people generally who refuse to do max optimisation for silly reasons, I would generally not play something I think sucks the fun out of the game, despite playing Omega Leader a LOT). Decimator/Thing doesn't have the efficiency to stand up to Dengar's reliability unless Thing is Redline or a /x7, and even then it's a struggle, trip aces just gets murdered by Zuckuss crew, and swarms I'm still struggling with. Pattiswarm would probably do it but I don't have the 3 more TIEs that I'd need. Trip x7s could do it but would get rings run round it by aces. Defender/Defender/Bomber Buddy maybe? If I was playing rebels right now I'd be looking at Biggs/Ghost/Ghost being a hilarious counter to Dengaroo, because gently caress your Zuckuss crew I have 0 agility after you've killed my chaff, but I don't own any of those pilots and can't afford to buy into another faction.
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Jul 31, 2016 08:39
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Foolster41 posted:Maybe he said next month (Meaning because it's the end of July, September) and I really misheard him. Armada has some stuff coming out in a little over a week on August 11th. Maybe that is what they were thinking of.
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Jul 31, 2016 08:52
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Late August release is plausible if the boat is on tihahahahahahaaaa it'll be the end of October.
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Jul 31, 2016 08:55
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thespaceinvader posted:My real trouble is that I'm not sure what i can run as Imps or Scum that counters Dengaroo, other than Palp/Aces (I don't have Palp and see next comment) and Dengaroo itself (and despite my aversion to people generally who refuse to do max optimisation for silly reasons, I would generally not play something I think sucks the fun out of the game, despite playing Omega Leader a LOT). Decimator/Thing doesn't have the efficiency to stand up to Dengar's reliability unless Thing is Redline or a /x7, and even then it's a struggle, trip aces just gets murdered by Zuckuss crew, and swarms I'm still struggling with. Pattiswarm would probably do it but I don't have the 3 more TIEs that I'd need. Trip x7s could do it but would get rings run round it by aces. Defender/Defender/Bomber Buddy maybe? I would be extremely wary of crack swarms against dengaroo because Zuckuss is actually at his best against tie fighters- the math on Dengar shooting tie fighters is extremely good and he can be very, very resistant to 2 die attacks on a money turn. If you're doing a swarm, you need to make sure you go after Manaroo first. She will be pretty hard to catch, though. I've played Ghost/Ghost/x and found that biggs doesn't allow you to get any upgrades but FCS and without the other gimmicks you're going to be really bad against other stuff like brobots, palp aces, even less optimal lists.
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Jul 31, 2016 11:38
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Yeah, it's a tough call, as I'm quickly working out. When it works out, I can take down Dengar in a round for the loss of a single TIE, usually Howl, but it relies on the Dengar player making the occasional poor decision and the dice actually being friendly. In particular, it needs them to burn at least one shot on Maarek, preferably two. But yeah, as noted, I'm really struggling to think of a list that reliably counters Dengaroo right now, except maybe palp/aces or Palp Decimator/Ace. The high level competitive meta is in a loving horrible place right now.
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Jul 31, 2016 11:46
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I've been playing quite a bit of Dengaroo recently and so far I think my worst match up is against Tie Defenders. Vessery is really strong, and theyre fast enough they can catch Manaroo if they want. Logically i would be weak to Decimators and Ghost as well i think but not played against them yet.
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Jul 31, 2016 11:47
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I beat Dengaroo twice at the regionals yesterday with Brobots and a friend of mine beat them with triple defenders, so both of those seem to work well enough against them.
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Jul 31, 2016 14:50
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 ~exceptional maneuverability~ I was looking into into light specops type shuttles for Rebel PCs to use in the RPG and it's crazy how much discrepancy there is between this cross section and some of the deck plans I saw. This has it like a two-seat coup, others turn it into a spacious yacht with sleeping quarters and stuff.
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Jul 31, 2016 15:50
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Nice heavy fighter with the lowest attack in the game 
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Jul 31, 2016 16:05
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Those books were written by someone who had a hard-on for proving that star wars > star trek so they're not really good source material. And they're heretical apocrypha anyway. Inquisitor calling out apocryphal heretics should be a meme.
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Jul 31, 2016 16:13
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Chill la Chill posted:Those books were written by someone who had a hard-on for proving that star wars > star trek so they're not really good source material. And they're heretical apocrypha anyway. So the HWK-290 is more Pretty Roomy Recreational Vehicle than Sportscar?
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Jul 31, 2016 16:21
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Should I use big asteroids or little asteroids for an Aces list?
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Jul 31, 2016 16:22
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Deviant posted:Should I use big asteroids or little asteroids for an Aces list? I'd say big, to mess with big footprint ships, but I'm not great at "turn 0."
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Jul 31, 2016 16:23
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I can't remember the precise details behind it but basically between various sources the Moldy Crow has been alternately portrayed as both a tiny two-seater shuttle and a larger cargo type ship. I believe this is what prompted FFG to create the HWK-1000 variant in their Star Wars RPG as an explicit "this ship looks like the Moldy Crow but it's big enough for an actual player-character party" to try and square the difference.
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Jul 31, 2016 16:39
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Otisburg posted:So the HWK-290 is more Pretty Roomy Recreational Vehicle than Sportscar? The star wars Dark Forces II: Jedi Knight II: Jedi Academy Outcast games made it look like a sportscar, so yeah not that.
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Jul 31, 2016 16:46
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Played that Kanan/Biggs/Ezra list last night and went 2-1. Easy win against Poe, Corran, Prototype Pilot. Hard fought win against Brobots (B&C), and an epic loss to Triple x7 Defenders. I just couldn't push damage through the 3 green dice, an evade token, and a focus token. 3 rounds in a row I had Ryad at range 1 out the rear, and each time I rolled 4 hits, and she didn't roll a single blank on defense. I know it's bad variance, but it was frustrating nonetheless. Worried that I'll see more of these lists since it seems to be a strong counter to Dengaroo. I'm also wondering about using R7 on Biggs, rather than R4-D6. Triple Jumpmasters have really fallen away in our meta. canyonero fucked around with this message at 18:34 on Jul 31, 2016 |
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Jul 31, 2016 18:30
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Alright, I've decided. I'm bringing this Colonel Vessery (35) Juke (2) TIE/x7 (-2) Countess Ryad (34) Push the Limit (3) Twin Ion Engine Mk. II (1) TIE/x7 (-2) Omicron Group Pilot (21) Emperor Palpatine (8) Total: 100 View in Yet Another Squad Builder 3 big asteroids, and the TFA damage deck. Vessery will get to use Ryad's target locks, and can focus as his basic action.
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Jul 31, 2016 19:14
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I'm jonesin' for some X-wing. Anyone want to get a game on TTS in?
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Jul 31, 2016 21:44
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canyoneer posted:OK, so I brought this. This ended up having 30 people in it (wow!) I am quickly becoming a ghost fan. Been doing decent with a ghothe Dash build. Looking to try something different. I don't have the R4D6 for Biggs, think R5 would be OK? I don't have any of the epic ship mechs. With advanced sensor on the ghost, what free action/moves are you taking? Trying to wrap my head around the strategy of this combo.
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Jul 31, 2016 22:18
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ro5s posted:I beat Dengaroo twice at the regionals yesterday with Brobots and a friend of mine beat them with triple defenders, so both of those seem to work well enough against them. Brobots in particular seem like Dengaroo should take them handily. In round one of combat Dengar hits one with a 4-hit plasma torp and a 3-hit primary or two four hit primaries, and stands a solid chance of killing it after it fires.
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Jul 31, 2016 23:52
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lazerus06 posted:I am quickly becoming a ghost fan. Been doing decent with a ghothe Dash build. Looking to try something different. R5 would be fine. R4 D6 is only there as a damage reducer in the rare case where Biggs eats a big volley that wouldn't kill him anyway. You will probably end up popping the astro with Integrated Astromech anyway. The main strategy here is to dish out big 4 or 5 dice attacks with the front/rear arc of the Ghost, followed up by a TLT at the end. You're using Recon Specialist and Kanan's ability to take 2 focuses, and with Advanced Sensors you won't lose your action to bumps. Your favorite range band is range 2. Tactician activates on attacks in both your front and rear arc, and in a turn with the Phantom docked, you can double stress a ship by doing a primary attack in arc with 4 dice followed by a TLT shot, or a TLT shot in the combat phase with a second TLT volley in the end phase. Range 2 and in arc also means that autothrusters aren't triggering on any ships. Range 2 also means that you can use Kanan's ability to spend a focus and have the attacking ships (shooting at Biggs) roll one fewer die. It's especially great when the bands work out such that the ships are firing through the Ghost are range 2 from the Ghost, but range 3 at Biggs. I had a Dengar shot or two go that way, which means Dengar was rolling 2 dice instead of 3, against Biggs' 4 dice (2 AGI, +1 for Range 3, and +1 for obstructed).  So this is mid-movement phase, the turn after I pulled the K Turn with Biggs. In the prior turn, Biggs K-turned through the Ghost, so the Ghost could provide an obstruction AND so Biggs could shoot back. I expected him to die on this turn anyway, but wanted him to have a chance to shoot back. The idea is to keep Biggs on the opposite side of the Ghost at all times, so they are forced to shoot through the Ghost with the obstruction. This turn, my movement dials showed a left bank for Ghost and a 1 forward for Biggs. I activated Ghost first, Advanced Sensors to Focus, and then bumped Biggs. Biggs then didn't move either. The idea here was basically to create stationary cover for Biggs for one turn so that he could fire on the TIEs while rolling an extra green die. Kanan's ability allowed me to spend a focus on two attacks to have them roll one fewer die at Biggs. I think that #7 Black Crack still had Crackshot available, so I did it on him and on #10 (who were I think barely within range 1). Biggs made it through the two turns with cover, and let the Ghost pass him on the next turn to charge out in front for his final round of shooting. After Biggs was dead I sorta didn't care that one or two TIEs had Crack Shot remaining, because I wasn't rolling dice on the Ghost anyway.
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Aug 1, 2016 02:35
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You don't miss FCS with that? I always worry about shot modification since I'm spending the focus's on Kanan's ability.
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Aug 1, 2016 05:48
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Yeah FCS would be really nice. But then you'd be stuck without the focuses when you do red maneuvers, or whenever you get blocked. First two games I played with the list I wanted to swap for FCS, but now I really want to keep them. Ghost is just too squishy to focused fire without those tokens
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Aug 1, 2016 06:08
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thespaceinvader posted:Brobots in particular seem like Dengaroo should take them handily. In round one of combat Dengar hits one with a 4-hit plasma torp and a 3-hit primary or two four hit primaries, and stands a solid chance of killing it after it fires. If all your dice have hits on them then maybe? You're not going to get 4 hit primaries on round 1 for a start. Most Dengaroo's are not running Guidance Chips as far as I can tell so you spend your target lock and your only dice modification is Focus and Lone wolf your most likely result is 2 damage, effective 3 from Plasma Torpedoes. 4 Damage (3 hits) has a very low probability because Brobots can Evade. I mean if your opponents are dropping 2 4 hit primaries on you in round 1 then I can see why you're having real issues, mainly that your opponents are cheating. with Focus and Lone Wolf you've got a 63% chance of 4 hits at range one, and 73% chance of 3 hits outside of that. But that's against agility 0, against 3 agility with tokens you're looking at 75% chance of doing 0 damage outside of range 1 so Zuckuss might generate you 1 or 2 damage. So Dengar will generate 1 or 2 damage a shot, perhaps twice a turn. But that's the damage output of the whole list and you get to decide if he fires at you twice.
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Aug 1, 2016 09:30
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thespaceinvader posted:Brobots in particular seem like Dengaroo should take them handily. In round one of combat Dengar hits one with a 4-hit plasma torp and a 3-hit primary or two four hit primaries, and stands a solid chance of killing it after it fires. Combined with what Aramoro said, out of Dengar's arc or staying at r3 you've got autothrusters and with a focus token zuckus' rerolls aren't too painful. I ignored Dengar whilst Manaroo was alive, she goes down pretty quickly without tokens and if she's holding on to them for defence then Dengar's not getting anything from her and his damage plummets. Don't shoot Dengar in arc the turn he glitterstims, think if it's worth shooting in arc if he's used countermeasures, definitely don't shoot if he used both together. That's kind of useful since it effectively wastes the countermeasures, it's already not worth shooting when he's glitterstimmed.
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Aug 1, 2016 13:48
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Which Brobot variant were you using?
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Aug 1, 2016 13:55
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hoiyes posted:Which Brobot variant were you using? A variant on one Some Numbers posted in the thread. IG-88B (36) Predator (3) Advanced Sensors (3) Mangler Cannon (4) Tractor Beam (1) Autothrusters (2) IG-2000 (0) IG-88D (36) Predator (3) Advanced Sensors (3) Heavy Laser Cannon (7) Autothrusters (2) IG-2000 (0) Total: 100 I'm 50/50 on swapping D for C. The 3 hard Segnor's is pretty great, though I found myself wanting to boost a lot and wishing I'd get a token for it. I might need to spend a few games tracking which one would be better for me.
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Aug 1, 2016 14:02
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hoiyes posted:Which Brobot variant were you using? B and C was what was causing me the most issues. Consistent damage output and free evade tokens.
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Aug 1, 2016 14:08
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ro5s posted:I'm 50/50 on swapping D for C. The 3 hard Segnor's is pretty great, though I found myself wanting to boost a lot and wishing I'd get a token for it. I might need to spend a few games tracking which one would be better for me. Cool, the list is real fun, took basically the same to 2nd in my regional. But that had no palp or jumpmasters thanks to a limited local meta. The nationals are completely open. Wondering if Predator still does much work in this meta (vs fearless/VI/crackshot)? Are there any ps1-2 ships left? How useful was the tractor beam? Having a bid could easily be make or break vs other bots.
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Aug 1, 2016 14:15
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