|
Vermain posted:They usually worked just fine, yeah. Their downside was that human error is inevitable, especially when you're copying out a gigantic 25-character password. Why were you not just taking a screenshot and putting it in Paint to pull off the code at your leisure?
|
#
?
Jul 19, 2016 08:01
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 16, 2024 18:55 |
|
|
catching Grubby streaming 1v1 and 2v2 made me want to play wc3, but wow when you're actually in game it feels insanely slow compared to the non-stop anxiety attack of playing starcraft.
|
|
#
?
Jul 29, 2016 22:33
|
|
|
Antares posted:catching Grubby streaming 1v1 and 2v2 made me want to play wc3, but wow when you're actually in game it feels insanely slow compared to the non-stop anxiety attack of playing starcraft. Actions Per Minute shouldn't be an indicator of how good someone is at an RTS.
|
|
#
?
Jul 31, 2016 11:41
|
|
|
but having to have an actual macro game should.
|
|
#
?
Jul 31, 2016 14:03
|
|
|
Upkeep was terrible. A base-taking game where you don't actually take bases has a serious flaw. But WC3 was still really fun.
|
|
#
?
Jul 31, 2016 14:58
|
|
|
I'm still not entirely sure what the intention of upkeep even was. Is it just meant to be a catchup mechanic, so that if someone is really ahead they take a penalty so the other person can build their forces up at a higher rate of income?
|
|
#
?
Jul 31, 2016 15:10
|
|
|
it was because computers at the time chugged with all the units and it was better to penalize you for having a full army.
|
|
#
?
Jul 31, 2016 15:14
|
|
|
Node posted:Actions Per Minute shouldn't be an indicator of how good someone is at an RTS. It isn't, insane micro tricks only matter the top 50 players in the world who can do them without missing anything else. even among those people there's a large variance in APM. Ladders are full of cases of a 'slower' player spending their money better and A-moving to win. if you use hotkeys, keeping your production ticking over costs like, 10 APM. literally no one with two hands is limited by their physical ability to move the mouse fast enough. in WC3 stuff just takes a lot of time to complete so you could just be cycling hotkeys waiting for something to do. I haven't timed it out exactly but I believe an expansion takes one hour to build. Jsor posted:I'm still not entirely sure what the intention of upkeep even was. Is it just meant to be a catchup mechanic, so that if someone is really ahead they take a penalty so the other person can build their forces up at a higher rate of income? I think it was part-rubber band but mainly an attempt to balance economy vs. army. dunno if it was necessary since those choices have an inherent opportunity cost, as they should've known from brood war.
|
|
#
?
Jul 31, 2016 19:45
|
|
|
Well, if what Shlonglor (who was a Blizzard community manager at the time) said during the beta is any indication, it was so War3 wouldn't be "all about massing units like SC is". Remember the original pitch for War3 was "role playing strategy" where there would be little to no base building and your heroes would persist between games. Upkeep could have very well been a compromise.
|
|
#
?
Jul 31, 2016 20:04
|
|
|
Suspicious posted:Well, if what Shlonglor (who was a Blizzard community manager at the time) said during the beta is any indication, it was so War3 wouldn't be "all about massing units like SC is". Remember the original pitch for War3 was "role playing strategy" where there would be little to no base building and your heroes would persist between games. Upkeep could have very well been a compromise. The original WC3 concept sounded really fun, I'd love to see a Warcraft made in that style. That said, WC3 is still a good game.
|
|
#
?
Jul 31, 2016 22:47
|
|
|
Node posted:The original WC3 concept sounded really fun, I'd love to see a Warcraft made in that style. That said, WC3 is still a good game. It's been a while since I played it, but weren't some parts of the Rexxar campaign almost exactly like that? I really loved the Rexxar campaign even if it was an awkward Diablo-lite.
|
|
#
?
Aug 1, 2016 06:17
|
|
|
The best WC3 custom games were the Footman Frenzy Armageddon games where you could get heroes so insanely powerful that a chain lightning would rip through every single enemy footman in the center and keep jumping back to their base to absolutely murder everything spawning for as long as you wanted. God those were fun as hell. Also fun were the Lord of the Rings games. I liked the one where each player controlled a nation and those tended to last a really long time if you had some competent people playing Nazgul, Mordor, and Gondor. I remember every single game, Rohan would straight up abandon Helm's Deep and move all their units to Gondor to help fight off orcs. Even more fun were the Battle of Helm's Deep maps where one side tried to take down the Helm's Deep defenses and walls, and the units were really weak so they died really quickly but you could spawn a billion of them really fast to make up for it. I remember some epic battles where the wall would finally get breached after a massive surge of Uruk-hai and desperately throwing units into the breached area to hold them off until Gandalf got back. I also made a D-Day map where one team would control the Allied soldiers landing at Normandy and the other team would be the Germans holding them off. That got a surprisingly large amount of players for a little while, maybe a month, and it was a total blast to make. I learned a lot about triggers by making that map.
|
|
#
?
Aug 1, 2016 23:20
|
|
|
HonorableTB posted:The best WC3 custom games were the Footman Frenzy Armageddon games where you could get heroes so insanely powerful that a chain lightning would rip through every single enemy footman in the center and keep jumping back to their base to absolutely murder everything spawning for as long as you wanted. God those were fun as hell.
|
|
#
?
Aug 1, 2016 23:25
|
|
|
Suspicious posted:Well, if what Shlonglor (who was a Blizzard community manager at the time) said during the beta is any indication, it was so War3 wouldn't be "all about massing units like SC is". Remember the original pitch for War3 was "role playing strategy" where there would be little to no base building and your heroes would persist between games. Upkeep could have very well been a compromise. Yeah I got the feeling from playing all that time ago that they wanted you making varied and balanced groups with special abilities to take on specific threats so the most balanced army would win. What mostly ended up happening was people found the most spammable unit of each race, set them up with an appropriate hero and then bowled over the competition. It explains how mobas became a thing I guess.
|
|
#
?
Aug 2, 2016 20:46
|
|
|
If that was the original goal, then why is War3 a game of soft counters? Soft counters encourage massing "the best unit" because you can't be severely punished for it like you can be in a game of hard counters like SC.
|
|
#
?
Aug 2, 2016 21:55
|
|
|
Parasite 2 was always the best custom game. It was eh with a bad Parasite player, but tearing apart the entire station in an orgy of paranoia to the point where the AI player goes rogue and self-destructs the facility to try and kill everyone without ever actually revealing your identity as the parasite was some of the greatest fun. Werewolf was fun as gently caress too. Particularly when you built for hunting and spec'd into a monster that could punch the Werewolf to death rather then building a town and army to take it down.
|
|
#
?
Aug 2, 2016 22:54
|
|
|
So I just installed Warcraft 3 again for the first time in years (since it didn't work on Mac for ages) and wow has 4v4 RT gone to poo poo. Almost every game someone quits at the start or is AFK, mostly on the other team. Now I'm at 6 - 2 (75% wins) and I think my ELL has gone too high as I can't find games now  Also I was randomly joining different clan channels to see if any are active, and in Clan PLUS on US East I found a certain someone  
|
|
#
?
Aug 4, 2016 08:46
|
|
|
Chickenfrogman posted:Parasite 2 was always the best custom game. It was eh with a bad Parasite player, but tearing apart the entire station in an orgy of paranoia to the point where the AI player goes rogue and self-destructs the facility to try and kill everyone without ever actually revealing your identity as the parasite was some of the greatest fun. it's really lame dota seems to be the only custom that spawned a stand alone game or genre. i always wanted those types of games you mentioned (and genesis of empires) as their own video games.
|
|
#
?
Aug 4, 2016 11:26
|
|
|
Fanatic posted:[...] I can't find games now I see the RT experience has vastly improved over the years!
|
|
#
?
Aug 4, 2016 12:03
|
|
|
Groovelord Neato posted:it's really lame dota seems to be the only custom that spawned a stand alone game or genre. i always wanted those types of games you mentioned (and genesis of empires) as their own video games. Tower Defense games were a pretty big fad for a while, such as Defense Grid. Warcraft 3 might not have invented the game concept but it had enormous popularity there.
|
|
#
?
Aug 4, 2016 20:07
|
|
|
Groovelord Neato posted:it's really lame dota seems to be the only custom that spawned a stand alone game or genre. i always wanted those types of games you mentioned (and genesis of empires) as their own video games. Look up Unfortunate Spacemen if you want a game inspired by Parasite. It's incomplete and an alpha currently though.
|
|
#
?
Aug 4, 2016 20:52
|
|
|
Fiskiggy posted:I see the RT experience has vastly improved over the years! It's funny when people on both teams try to lose on purpose (either through leaving, AFKing or TKing), then the winner is the team who quits last.  I seem to be one of the few who don't quit at the drop of a hat so it usually goes in my favour.
|
|
#
?
Aug 8, 2016 08:06
|
|
|
I reinstalled the other day and played some ladder. Man I love spell breakers and pretty much every other human unit. evilmiera posted:Yeah I got the feeling from playing all that time ago that they wanted you making varied and balanced groups with special abilities to take on specific threats so the most balanced army would win. What mostly ended up happening was people found the most spammable unit of each race, set them up with an appropriate hero and then bowled over the competition. It explains how mobas became a thing I guess. There wren't really that many mass strats that worked well (at least in TFT)in 1v1 due to the power of spellcasters and anti-casters though. Talons and Bears were of course the biggest exception to this since they were in fact spellcasters themselves, but mass bears for example was not a viable strat against undead because the bears would just feed destroyers. Mass Talons was mostly played in night elf vs orc to chain cyclone the blademaster and trade mana with spirit walker disenchants, while the DH/BeM/Tinker did most of the damage. Siege Engine spam also worked as a strong cheese strat since there were races who lacked siege damage strong enough to deal with them and the siege engines themselves had strong synergy with the archmage. The standard orc deathball though uses a pretty reasonable mix of grunts, spirit walkers, and raiders. Other staple strats like sorc-rifle and necro-wagon also take advantage of units that complement each others' weaknesses, and every race had a reasonable hard counter to each of these strats. Zoness fucked around with this message at 23:10 on Aug 8, 2016 |
|
#
?
Aug 8, 2016 22:44
|
|
|
evilmiera posted:Yeah I got the feeling from playing all that time ago that they wanted you making varied and balanced groups with special abilities to take on specific threats so the most balanced army would win. What mostly ended up happening was people found the most spammable unit of each race, set them up with an appropriate hero and then bowled over the competition. It explains how mobas became a thing I guess. Footmen frenzy style games arose because people didn't want to macro, then MOBAs arose because people wanted to micro one unit instead of a full army. You're remembering the days of old mass caster/mass hunts which were usually patched out. Recently, mass talons dominated the NEvO meta but a lot of Orcs figured it out without a patch.
|
|
#
?
Aug 9, 2016 17:58
|
|
|
also mass talons doesn't really play like a "spam one unit and faceroll" comp because you need to micro your faerie fire and cyclone usage properly as well as hopefully bird forming them to get away if they start taking focus fire cyclone costs a shitload of mana and night elves don't have reliable mana regeneration on their nonheroes (pretty sure this is just humans and undead) aside from moon wells but who's fighting a night elf player next to their moon wells I'm not sure if mass hunts ever got really weak in RoC (I didn't play in a lot of the patches between initial RoC and TFT release) but I know the armor type change in TFT really dumped on them because they can't siege against towers with unarmored type. A couple of guard towers (from fast expanding, of course) and a water elemental could hold off a very large number of huntresses in TFT. Also KoTG (a key enabler of mass huntresses in RoC) dropped off really fast with every race having access to a tier 2 dispel or abolish magic merc, so you would have to resort to warden or naga sea witch and hoping the slow would let you get surrounds. Zoness fucked around with this message at 18:16 on Aug 9, 2016 |
|
#
?
Aug 9, 2016 18:04
|
|
|
Did you highperch folks get burnt out again? I was really enjoying the replays that were being posted.
|
|
#
?
Aug 9, 2016 22:36
|
|
|
i was mad when they introduced magic attack because originally casters had ranged attack so i'd stomp just going all shamen and witch doctors since you could upgrade their damage.
|
|
#
?
Aug 9, 2016 23:02
|
|
|
Maynard was doing it in the RoC beta. It's mind boggling it took Blizzard so long to nerf it.
|
|
#
?
Aug 9, 2016 23:16
|
|
|
I've been consistently finding ladder games on Europe server, which makes me wish they would combine the US West & East servers so that the playerbase wasn't split. Europe is good and all but the 300 ping is kind of annoying with the 2-3 sec click delay it causes.
|
|
#
?
Aug 10, 2016 08:38
|
|
|
Holy poo poo, I just found a folder of something like 100 replays I saved, and they're all dated 2002-2004. I know that with each patch of WC3, you couldn't watch replays of earlier patches, but god drat would I love to watch these again. Some curious samples: Gangsta-craftLOL.w3g, masskodo.w3g, SnakeAPult1.w3g, gay10way.w3g, and theystolemyname(orc) vs ANGRY_KOREA_MAN.w3g.
|
|
#
?
Aug 10, 2016 09:02
|
|
|
There's this thingy you could use to watch those replays: http://www.wcreplays.com/forums/showthread.php?t=145532 Post the highlights imo
|
|
#
?
Aug 10, 2016 09:03
|
|
|
i don't get why a lot of games can't play old replays. always pissed me off in wc3.
|
|
#
?
Aug 10, 2016 10:51
|
|
|
Groovelord Neato posted:i don't get why a lot of games can't play old replays. always pissed me off in wc3. Those replays function by storing starting game state and then each action taken afterwards. Major version changes result in those actions potentially having different results, which breaks the replay.
|
|
#
?
Aug 10, 2016 16:25
|
|
|
Super Space Jam 64 posted:Did you highperch folks get burnt out again? I was really enjoying the replays that were being posted. half burnt out, half hard to find games (which i guess adds to being burnt out). we played one yesterday. it wasn't very interesting, though maybe bear_and or blinn could post the replay
|
|
#
?
Aug 10, 2016 16:29
|
|
|
time for a joke posted:half burnt out, half hard to find games (which i guess adds to being burnt out). we played one yesterday. it wasn't very interesting, though maybe bear_and or blinn could post the replay We've had staggered vacations and were also somewhat satiated, but the main reason we haven't played is more interesting: Iggy wrote an amazing bot that scrapes the Northrend full games listings for all 3s and 4s AT games and dings us in Slack when a real (non-lossbot) game has occurred. We'd been having a bit of trouble finding games on weekdays starting in early July, so when the scraper hung on something a few weeks ago without anyone noticing we thought that nobody was finding 3s games. We assumed that the gametype died again, and went back into a post-war3 malaise and didn't even try searching. Iggy got the bot running again yesterday, and it turns out euro3s is still humming along (though it's still a small scene and prime hours are limited). Weekday wigs still suck though, we searched for ~90min to find yesterday's game. Anyway here's the replay of the game we played yesterday. Here's the vod, but it won't be ready for another hour or so (I just posted it). It was neither a close game nor an experimental strategy and thus not too exciting, though the titular towerdive at the bottom expo was pretty cool . . .
|
|
#
?
Aug 10, 2016 16:53
|
|
|
 It's still backlogged with July's games but hopes are we'll have a few months of history to work with soon. Then we can optimize our search efforts by mapping out the most active hours of the week, checking the online state of other prolific teams etc. Yes, we take these gimmick games seriously. Not so much the games themselves, but everything around it is important stuff.
|
|
#
?
Aug 10, 2016 17:11
|
|
|
Tykero posted:Those replays function by storing starting game state and then each action taken afterwards. Major version changes result in those actions potentially having different results, which breaks the replay. they should've coded it so replays aren't worthless.
|
|
#
?
Aug 10, 2016 22:32
|
|
|
Groovelord Neato posted:they should've coded it so replays aren't worthless.
|
|
#
?
Aug 11, 2016 17:09
|
|
|
All I know is you could watch BW replays from previous versions (mostly) bug free and you could also watch them with other people.
|
|
#
?
Aug 11, 2016 20:45
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 16, 2024 18:55 |
|
|
you could that's why i don't understand anyone defending them.
|
|
#
?
Aug 11, 2016 23:06
|
|