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KM Scorchio posted:I would thank you not to thank me pre-emptively for things I shall not be doing. Thanks. I was attempting to be polite to prevent this kind of response. Clearly, that failed. Feel free to continue being an rear end.
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Jul 31, 2016 18:30
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KM Scorchio posted:I would thank you not to thank me pre-emptively for things I shall not be doing. Thanks. Don't be wilfully dense. You know what that poster meant to say. Wilekat posted:VH Dwarf trip report. Thorgrim looks like he's chomping down on a Cuban cigar. Oddly fitting.
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Jul 31, 2016 18:31
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I shall endeavour to moderate my language in future when discussing gigantic man-bull creatures goring people to death.
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Jul 31, 2016 18:40
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KM Scorchio posted:I shall endeavour to moderate my language in future when discussing gigantic man-bull creatures goring people to death. Then say that? This isn't the dark elf pack?
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Jul 31, 2016 18:48
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KM Scorchio posted:I shall endeavour to moderate my language in future when discussing gigantic man-bull creatures goring people to death. Don't be an rear end in a top hat. How do Orcs stack up against beastmen? They're both charge focused factions that are mobile and have vaguelly similiar rosters, do battles between them end up as hilarious bloodbaths or do beastmen have an edge with minotaurs better cavalry?
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Jul 31, 2016 18:50
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Nash posted:No goofy hats, no deal. I think Chaos Dwarfs will have some variation in their units with some being hatless and some going full babylonian.
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Jul 31, 2016 18:53
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KM Scorchio posted:I would thank you not to thank me pre-emptively for things I shall not be doing. Thanks. For all of its bluff and bluster, SA is surprisingly progressive sometimes. I wouldn't expect a lot of support on the "lol rape" front
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Jul 31, 2016 18:54
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Sensitive bunch aren't you? To provide some content: I never bothered using giants when I played chaos or orcs... Do they all die as easily as the beastmen ones do? Edit: Maybe it's because I spent a fair bit of time flying with goonswarm over the last 7 years or so where using the word rape in such a way was pretty commonplace that I'm not really sure what the fuss is about but I'm happy to draw a line under this to avoid derailing a decent thread about a cool game. KM Scorchio fucked around with this message at 19:05 on Jul 31, 2016 |
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Jul 31, 2016 18:56
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Giants have a lot of health but very little armor and are easy for archers to hit, so archer spam from things like goblins and quarrelers can kill them pretty fast. Giants are best brought into the fight after you've already engaged with your line infantry.
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Jul 31, 2016 18:58
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Carcer posted:How do Orcs stack up against beastmen? They're both charge focused factions that are mobile and have vaguelly similiar rosters, do battles between them end up as hilarious bloodbaths or do beastmen have an edge with minotaurs better cavalry? Ive not played Orcs since the patch but since Beastmen are basically Orcs but without any downsides i can only see them lose if its AI Beastmen vs Player Orcs. As for multiplayer.. well no idea frankly.
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Jul 31, 2016 18:59
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Carcer posted:Don't be an rear end in a top hat. From my limited experience Orcs are a really tough match-up for Beastmen because they can match them in numbers with units that can usually out-punch and out-shoot their Beastmen equivalents. Beastmen have to really lean on their magic, sneaks and Minotaurs to stand a chance. Definitely a bloodbath no matter who wins, though. quote:Ive not played Orcs since the patch but since Beastmen are basically Orcs but without any downsides i can only see them lose if its AI Beastmen vs Player Orcs. Not really. Greenskins have better ranged, better artillery, better cav and largely better infantry. Beastmen have better mobility, better magic, better monster infantry, and stronger Lords/Heroes aside from Gimgor. Beastmen basically have to leverage their better special units to overcome a rather large core army disadvantage. madmac fucked around with this message at 19:05 on Jul 31, 2016 |
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Jul 31, 2016 19:01
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Need some advice for getting beastmen off the ground. I started the mini-campaign and started working on the horde growth buildings and then grabbing any skills that reduce upkeep costs. Grabbed Malagor off the bat and gave him like two units and kept him in reinforce range to skill him up. From there I kept him full of tier 1 crap and used him to cast devolve and summon cygors as a reinforcing army. I worked my way razing and sacking mostly but I'm always very close to bankruptcy especially once I was able to get a second unit of Minotaur.
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Jul 31, 2016 19:37
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Smiling Knight posted:Could we not use rape this way? Thank you. Don't be this guy thanks
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Jul 31, 2016 19:43
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Regardless of whether you find rape abhorrent like a normal human being or you find it to be a regular laff-riot, I think both sides can agree that no one gives a poo poo in the TW:W thread.
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Jul 31, 2016 19:57
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Super 3 posted:Need some advice for getting beastmen off the ground. I started the mini-campaign and started working on the horde growth buildings and then grabbing any skills that reduce upkeep costs. Grabbed Malagor off the bat and gave him like two units and kept him in reinforce range to skill him up. From there I kept him full of tier 1 crap and used him to cast devolve and summon cygors as a reinforcing army. Take a break from sacking at some point (I did it after eliminating the first two factions) to let the settlements level up a bit, which will up your raiding income by a lot. Try not to sack individual settlements from provinces until you're ready to eliminate the whole province, as it'll tank your raiding income from it. After a certain point you'll start getting 2k+ from raiding per stack, and money is no longer an issue (I finished with 120k in the bank). I played most of the campaign with two stacks, only recruiting a third one for the final push on the last faction.
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Jul 31, 2016 19:59
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Super 3 posted:Need some advice for getting beastmen off the ground. I started the mini-campaign and started working on the horde growth buildings and then grabbing any skills that reduce upkeep costs. Grabbed Malagor off the bat and gave him like two units and kept him in reinforce range to skill him up. From there I kept him full of tier 1 crap and used him to cast devolve and summon cygors as a reinforcing army. The upkeep reducing buildings, despite tanking your growth, are immensely useful. I can have moments of... eccentricity and sometimes be quite curious about things. Please forgive me if I do something foolish or rude.
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Jul 31, 2016 19:59
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madmac posted:Not really. Greenskins have better ranged, better artillery, better cav and largely better infantry. Beastmen have better mobility, better magic, better monster infantry, and stronger Lords/Heroes aside from Gimgor. Beastmen basically have to leverage their better special units to overcome a rather large core army disadvantage. Orcs have left me a bitter shell of a nerd, so im probably not seeing things clearly, though as i see it curently, ranged for orcs is pretty meh so not much to say there. Doom Divers are better yes but you don't get them until way waaay later, the Rock Lobbers are NOT better than Cygors and the only cavalry you need as beastmen are minotaurs (they're not cav, i get it but they're almost the same speed as boar boys). As for better infantry.. uhm, no? they're about the same, up to the point where theres an almost literal 1:1 ratio between Bestigors and Blackorcs. The main difference is that beastmen are faster and they are even better as shocktroops with their Minotaurs and Bullgores. Hell, if im not utterly mistaken on Leadership values they break less often than Orcs too! The cool stuff Beastmen get makes me wish that Orcs had similar things, the Bloodgreed semi-passive thing is so noticable and cool and i'd love to see another facet of the Waagh making its way into the Orc ranks, something like how it works in Dawn of War 1 would be excellent. In DoW1 the more Orks you have clustered together, creating a so called Mob Bonus, the better they become at fighting gaining bonuses to damage, morale, speed and even maximum HP! The point in that game was to split them up and keep them split up to break their effects and thus win and id've loved to see something similar in this game. Gejnor fucked around with this message at 20:06 on Jul 31, 2016 |
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Jul 31, 2016 20:03
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I will say though I really enjoyed playing beastmen I don't much care for the 'brayherd' mechanic as a direct waaagh ripoff. It sort of makes the orcs feel less unique and, imo, wasn't really necessary (or could have been compensated for by some other abilities).
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Jul 31, 2016 20:09
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Double Bill posted:Take a break from sacking at some point (I did it after eliminating the first two factions) to let the settlements level up a bit, which will up your raiding income by a lot. Try not to sack individual settlements from provinces until you're ready to eliminate the whole province, as it'll tank your raiding income from it. After a certain point you'll start getting 2k+ from raiding per stack, and money is no longer an issue (I finished with 120k in the bank). I played most of the campaign with two stacks, only recruiting a third one for the final push on the last faction. gotcha raid more than sack.
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Jul 31, 2016 20:10
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Deified Data posted:Regardless of whether you find rape abhorrent like a normal human being or you find it to be a regular laff-riot Please don't be this guy either
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Jul 31, 2016 20:11
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Did you guys bother investing in the +growth skill for Beastmen? I maxed it out for both of my hordes in the mini-campaign and by the time I'd finished it I felt like I invested so many points into making their hordes viable that none of my LLs really stood out as distinct combatants in battle. Chaos kind of had this problem too, aside from Kholek who was easy to set up as a murder machine. It's probably my least favorite part of horde gameplay - I wish unit upkeep and growth stuff was just handled via buildings.
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Jul 31, 2016 20:12
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Deified Data posted:Did you guys bother investing in the +growth skill for Beastmen? I maxed it out for both of my hordes in the mini-campaign and by the time I'd finished it I felt like I invested so many points into making their hordes viable that none of my LLs really stood out as distinct combatants in battle. Chaos kind of had this problem too, aside from Kholek who was easy to set up as a murder machine. It's probably my least favorite part of horde gameplay - I wish unit upkeep and growth stuff was just handled via buildings. Well, the beastmen do have that potent upkeep reducing building, even if it does tank your growth. It does greatly reduce upkeep. First by -25%, and then by -50%! But yeah, putting enough points into their skills to get max horde growth makes them way less awesome at personal combat. I can have moments of... eccentricity and sometimes be quite curious about things. Please forgive me if I do something foolish or rude.
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Jul 31, 2016 20:18
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I felt slightly bad about making my Gorebull an unstoppable killing machine and then never actually using him in battles. He felt more useful assassinating the swarm of agents buzzing around my stacks.
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Jul 31, 2016 20:18
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Double Bill posted:I felt slightly bad about making my Gorebull an unstoppable killing machine and then never actually using him in battles. He felt more useful assassinating the swarm of agents buzzing around my stacks. Imagine if instead of assassinating, you had the option to have a tactical battle with just your agent and the guy you're trying to kill. I can have moments of... eccentricity and sometimes be quite curious about things. Please forgive me if I do something foolish or rude.
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Jul 31, 2016 20:20
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Deified Data posted:Did you guys bother investing in the +growth skill for Beastmen? I maxed it out for both of my hordes in the mini-campaign and by the time I'd finished it I felt like I invested so many points into making their hordes viable that none of my LLs really stood out as distinct combatants in battle. Chaos kind of had this problem too, aside from Kholek who was easy to set up as a murder machine. It's probably my least favorite part of horde gameplay - I wish unit upkeep and growth stuff was just handled via buildings. This is why i always use the +50% more skillpoints mod. It gives you +2 points every uneven level (for a maximum of 43 points when at 30) giving you enough to fill out two almost three trees but not enough to fill out every single skill in the game. To answer your question: Yes, do it, you need the growth kind of desperately. It not only gives you better units but it also offsets the loss you get when you eventually pick up the upkeep buildings. Even rank 1 of those are supremely worth it. The blue skill tree for Beastmen is amazing and should be filled up, 15% less upkeep, Horde Growth, More raiding cash (and lightning strike if you so wish!).. All that is great but without the mod yeah i can see you'd then not have nearly enough points to either touch the red or yellow trees at all. In my 2nd Beastman grandcampaign game i've managed to keep myself at +income the entire game. Mostly because ive never gone above 15/20 for my 2 hordes and i use mostly cheap units with the starter minotaurs and 2x bullgores later on as my hammers. I also make liberal use of the summon Cygor/Manticore spell. I also use the Rank 1 Upkeep Building. What i love about beastmen is the fact that you can hide and chill out, recovering from hard battles while you build up in peace while at the same time you're basically right on top of your enemies and heh they've left their towns completely unprotected because they cannot see you. Oddly enough ive noticed one thing: You don't need to fill out the red tree at all as beastmen, your troops are decent enough and you get bonuses from the techtree, bullgore skills and that upgrade building so they are fine. Gejnor fucked around with this message at 20:34 on Jul 31, 2016 |
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Jul 31, 2016 20:25
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I wish they left the agent game from TW out of this game, doesnt seem to give any better gameplay, just annoying
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Jul 31, 2016 20:35
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Playing the beastmen campaign and having a swarm of agents surrounding my army like flies, and every turn having to click through agent action spam, is pretty annoying.
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Jul 31, 2016 20:38
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Lassitude posted:Playing the beastmen campaign and having a swarm of agents surrounding my army like flies, and every turn having to click through agent action spam, is pretty annoying. The solution is startlingly simple: Move away from them and recamp, preferably a bit further away, somewhere not near to where the enemy usually patrols. The AI won't see you and will send its agents back to whatever they were doing before they spotted you.
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Jul 31, 2016 20:41
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quote:As for better infantry.. uhm, no? they're about the same, up to the point where theres an almost literal 1:1 ratio between Bestigors and Blackorcs. The main difference is that beastmen are faster and they are even better as shocktroops with their Minotaurs and Bullgores. Hell, if im not utterly mistaken on Leadership values they break less often than Orcs too! You would think so but no, Black Orcs demolish Bestigors 1v1. And T1 Orc Boyz are about on par or better than T3 Gor Herds, outside the speed and vanguard advantage. Big'Uns are much stronger than any light or medium infantry Beastmen can field. Also beastmen LD is terrible at base, it only seems high because of all the buffs they can get from Beastlords and Gorebulls. As for Archers, Greenskins might not be great, but their Goblin Archers are about on par with Ungor Raiders minus the stalk and vanguard. Night Goblin Archers are flatly superior, and Arrer Boyz blow them away in terms of actual ranged DPS on anything with armor. I'm not saying Beastmen are bad, far from it, but the base stats on most of their units are terrible and they're very reliant on leader buffs, ambushes, and speed to make up for it. Which is cool, because Beastmen are super fun to play and probably my new favorite faction. They really do have a much harder time with early game Orcs than they do early game humans, though, and I watched a bunch of tournament games this morning so I feel safe in saying Greenskins are a tough match-up for them there as well, even with devolve as broken as it is. Late game changes things up a bit, because high end heavy cav and such starts to become a problem for Beastmen, but early/mid game it's much easier to bully the humans than Orcs. Re: Skill points, I also always skip LD for Beastmen. The redskills they get just aren't that good outside of Apocalyptic Vision and you have so many other things you need. Blue Tree and topskills/magic all the way.
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Jul 31, 2016 20:48
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I'll never stop using the no aggressive ai agents mod. It sucks even harder because it's tons of fun to fight enemy agents on the battlefield but the AI hates using them like that 
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Jul 31, 2016 21:16
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After the first patch, I turned that mod off. It doesn't seem needed any more. At least, with the way I play.
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Jul 31, 2016 21:55
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Beastman pro tip: If the stack that summoned the Brayherd drops below 17 units, the Brayherd disappears. This is annoying as it makes the consolidate units thing after a battle harder to use. In my Beastman Grand Campaign, I just viewed the Brayherds as one shot disposable armies. Also Ambush stance is the best ever. It basically turns any battle into an instant easy victory. Line up your infantry with their spearmen, your spearman with their cavalry and your cavalry with their ranged, and win. I had what would have been a tough battle against a high tier Karl Franz stack turn into a 90 second battle because I got to perfectly match up every rock unit against its scissors counterpart (Enjoy these 3 units of Great Weapon Minotaurs you Empire Greatsword units  )That said, I can't wait to play Savage Orcs in the grand campaign. Someone needs to get on that mod NOW. cheese fucked around with this message at 22:18 on Jul 31, 2016 |
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Jul 31, 2016 22:15
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After the second patch AI agents don't even try to assassinate you anymore unless you've got your own lone agents hanging around, they just spam assault unit for negligible damage every turn (It got nerfed hard) until they gently caress up and kill themselves. Block Army is also rarely used and I haven't seen them attempt destroy building in ages.
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Jul 31, 2016 22:15
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madmac posted:After the second patch AI agents don't even try to assassinate you anymore unless you've got your own lone agents hanging around, they just spam assault unit for negligible damage every turn (It got nerfed hard) until they gently caress up and kill themselves. Block Army is also rarely used and I haven't seen them attempt destroy building in ages. I don't know about that. My dwarf campaign just came to a screeching halt when a swarm of banshees assassinated the lords for all 5 of my armies in a single turn.
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Jul 31, 2016 22:18
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madmac posted:After the second patch AI agents don't even try to assassinate you anymore unless you've got your own lone agents hanging around, they just spam assault unit for negligible damage every turn (It got nerfed hard) until they gently caress up and kill themselves. Block Army is also rarely used and I haven't seen them attempt destroy building in ages. They still assassinate, but probably only when the success chance is high enough. My third Lord in my Beastmen mini-campaign got assassinated immediately after I recruited him. That's 6 growth points down the toilet, thanks.
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Jul 31, 2016 22:28
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I ran a few custom games to show off the beastmen to a friend, but one thing I noticed that came as a surprise to me is that it seems like Beastlord/One Eye are REALLY good while on chariots. Against the likes of grave guard/greatswords, I saw the commander on chariots rack up around 250-300 kills each game, but not quite sure how considering I wasn't really focusing on micromanaging him, though he DID lose hit points faster too. Might be worth looking out for though.
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Jul 31, 2016 22:41
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madmac posted:You would think so but no, Black Orcs demolish Bestigors 1v1. And T1 Orc Boyz are about on par or better than T3 Gor Herds, outside the speed and vanguard advantage. Big'Uns are much stronger than any light or medium infantry Beastmen can field. madmac posted:
Coming straight off another Greenskin campaign, you are 100% right though unupgraded Ungor Archers seem to outrange sans-upgrade gobbo bowmen with a better accuracy than base orc archers. Later on, with Orcs, you get night gobbo superior poison archers (with fanatics) but your base ungor archers are pretty much the same as they were at t1. Orcs surpass them hard. I wish they'd (ungor archers) get a poison upgrade or something. On the plus side they flank, move fast so even with base weedy oomie stats they do alright hitting enemy mobs in the flank or rear. Campaign I almost always have a decent flanking force to take out war machines. Chariot wise the Brownskin chariot seems to match the boar chariot... but its still a chariot so take that as you will. Their tanky Mino Boss is pretty drat good in the early and mid game. Late game still seems to be going strong if not quite the monster he was. Freakin magic is awesome. I like beasts more than wild but both are good. I'd rather summon a manticore anyday over the cygor. Speaking of Cygor: they are the only artillery you get. They seem profoundly mediocre to me but I get at least one as they look cool and are fun. They aren't the most accurate so aim them at a defended gate or in the mob mass. They cause terror so if they get rushed by cav they ... have survived in my experience. No minimum range if I remember or at least very short range. I swear they have pitched boulders at guys at point blank. Bestigors are cool as long as you accept they will never be as tanky as Black Orcs. Fast and great at flanking some group stuck against another square. Great army and they are fairly close to taking my favourite slot.... but I'm super nuts about anything Orky. One weird thing: the Orcs keep giving me money. They don't want to be my defensive or military ally but they keep tossing me money. Not demanding money but offering me gifts. For no reason. For about 120 turn now. I did kill the stunties for em so maybe thats it. DogsInSpace! fucked around with this message at 22:51 on Jul 31, 2016 |
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Jul 31, 2016 22:47
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Von_Doom posted:One weird thing: the Orcs keep giving me money. They don't want to be my defensive or military ally but they keep tossing me money. Not demanding money but offering me gifts. For no reason. For about 120 turn now. I did kill the stunties for em so maybe thats it. Oh that's obvious. They're behaving like a player who wants to prop up a faction that is an enemy of a faction they don't like, and so give them gold to help out. How does it feel to be on the receiving end of such treatment? I can have moments of... eccentricity and sometimes be quite curious about things. Please forgive me if I do something foolish or rude.
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Jul 31, 2016 22:55
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Gejnor posted:This is why i always use the +50% more skillpoints mod. It gives you +2 points every uneven level (for a maximum of 43 points when at 30) giving you enough to fill out two almost three trees but not enough to fill out every single skill in the game. I might just do this. Is the mod retroactive? Malagor's about lv.13 right now/
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Jul 31, 2016 23:05
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Agents have been awful in every single TW game and should be excluded from future titles.
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Jul 31, 2016 23:18
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