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In the datacenter world, SSDs years ago beat hard drives in IOPS / $. Then there's FC and SAS drives as well as our cheap SATA drives. As long as consumers are price-motivated rather than density and power over cost, hard drives will have a place. Factors like economy of scale for hard drive manufacturers and capitalization of fab owning companies are the real uncertainties here.
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Jul 27, 2016 03:45
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The SSD successor will be out before they're cheaper per GB than HDDs 
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Jul 27, 2016 14:49
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So this TOSHIBA X300 HDWE160XZSTA 6TB 7200 RPM 128MB Cache SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5" Desktop Internal Hard Drive is on a ridiculous sale today. Would this be completely stupid to buy? (2 Year Warranty)
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Jul 27, 2016 15:09
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That's an odd drive. Toshiba has typically not made a ton of desktop 3.5" models. No idea on the reliability nor have I read anything.
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Jul 27, 2016 15:14
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I have 4 Toshiba DT01ACA300 drives (3TB models) in my server that I picked up really cheap at the time. 1036 days on them with no issues. *knocks on wood* That said, I've seen a lot of horror stories come out of their RMA process since I bought them. Be aware of what you are getting yourself into. Example: https://www.reddit.com/r/DataHoarder/comments/43bqrv/psa_toshiba_rmas_are_a_nightmare/ I'm currently picking these guys up as they go on sale since I don't really care about performance. The annoying thing is that they always limit 1 per household - although if you have one local you can get around that pretty easily. Sign up a spam account for the sales fliers to get the (unique) coupon codes. As luck would have it, they are running a reasonable sale right now (cheapest I've seen them is $89 shipped, currently $94 after coupon code) http://www.frys.com/product/6943757?site=sa:adpages%20page:P7%20date:072416
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Jul 27, 2016 16:01
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Fancy_Lad posted:I'm currently picking these guys up as they go on sale since I don't really care about performance. The annoying thing is that they always limit 1 per household - although if you have one local you can get around that pretty easily. Sign up a spam account for the sales fliers to get the (unique) coupon codes. As luck would have it, they are running a reasonable sale right now (cheapest I've seen them is $89 shipped, currently $94 after coupon code) Holy crap. I'm buying one. Thanks for the heads up on this. Still curious about that Toshiba thing though 
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Jul 27, 2016 16:09
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How do those compare with their NAS offerings?
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Jul 27, 2016 16:16
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I have a bunch of Toshiba 4 TB desktop drives in my NAS and have no problem but as we've seen with Seagate before, different capacity drives can have different reliability rates and there can be variance among model years as well - sounds like cars, right?uhhhhahhhhohahhh posted:The SSD successor will be out before they're cheaper per GB than HDDs
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Jul 27, 2016 16:19
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FWIW I've got a couple Toshiba 5 TBs that have been fine for ~2 years so far.
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Jul 27, 2016 16:26
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I can't find a better thread to post my NAS question so if someone can suggest one I'll gently caress off and ask it there. I'm trying to rsync from old to new with the command rsync -azP shares/DIRECTORYHERE/ root@newNASip:shares/DIRECTORYHERE/ I'm pretty sure this specific command worked on my last migration but instead of going from /shares/DIRECTORYHERE/ to the same directory on the new device it's trying to put it in /root/home/shares/DIRECTORYHERE/ which isn't a place on this stupid WD box that I bought because I don't care enough to roll my own but maybe I should have? Any ideas or am I going to have to do it all with a computer in the middle and spend 3 weeks moving my poo poo at like 3Mb/s EDIT: figured it out, needed another / in the destination to stop it defaulting to root's home directory I'm a loving idiot. History Comes Inside! fucked around with this message at 21:57 on Jul 27, 2016 |
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Jul 27, 2016 21:50
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Here's my scenario: -Fast 512GB SSD -2TB WD Green -4TB WD Red -Unlimited gigabit internet -Old Intel Sandforce 480GB SSD (I want to use BitLocker which conflicts with the Sandforce de-dupe / compression stuff but not enough to matter and certainly still faster than the Green). The SSD and the Green back up to the Red and the cloud via Crashplan. The backups take about 1.4TB with Crashplan's versioning / compression / de-dupe / leaving out poo poo I don't care if I lose. I've got about 500GB to spare on the Green but it's getting up there in years so I want to replace it, but going with my 1:4:8 ratio doesn't make too much sense. Virtually everything I have could fit on the SSD save for ~1.3 TB of movies. Everything else could easily fit on the old SSD. I feel like I have a few options: -RAID1 the Red with another of its kind (EFRX is still the model series so only distinction is Pro/non-Pro). Forget local video backups and go cloud-only. -Get a NAS and another Red and host video and SSD backups on there, with video backing up to cloud only. That gives me local SSD content i.e. the stuff that matters. It also takes all the mechanical storage out of my case which has airflow benefits. -...Storage Spaces? Not even sure those made it out of Windows 8.1? I feel like in-PC RAID won't scale over time and I should spring for the extra money on a good NAS now. Any opinions?
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Jul 28, 2016 23:08
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Shumagorath posted:Here's my scenario: I would go with the 4TB RAID1 for now, it's a relatively simple operation and buys you time to better consider your options. You can then move rather leisurely to an external NAS.
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Jul 28, 2016 23:14
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necrobobsledder posted:I have a bunch of Toshiba 4 TB desktop drives in my NAS and have no problem but as we've seen with Seagate before, different capacity drives can have different reliability rates and there can be variance among model years as well - sounds like cars, right? As of now, Xpoint is not even close enough to ram Bandwidth to be used as that. It's more like NVMe SSDs with less latency from what I remember reading. So who knows, maybe the price wont be stupid.
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Jul 28, 2016 23:37
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3D XPoint is pretty much only intended for two things: 1) a cache between the DRAM and SSD storage, and 2) all-flash storage where IOPS is all-important and money is no restriction) and not even NVMe is fast enough; 3D XPoint an order of magnitude lower latency than NVMe which itself is an order of magnitude lower latency than AHCI. That being said, if memory serves correct, it's not the first time that storage has been almost the same order of magntiude as RAM - it was the same situation back in the day when magnetic-core memory was used, and the experiences learnt then can probably be extrapolated to today. BlankSystemDaemon fucked around with this message at 10:23 on Jul 29, 2016 |
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Jul 29, 2016 10:16
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If I have a running Freenas volume that I've created and filled with data that is unencrypted, and I want to now encrypt it, is that impossible? Do I have to recreate everything? Or can I just encrypt it on the fly and preserve all the data?
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Aug 1, 2016 02:50
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So I have inherited a poo poo storm. I've been put in charge of our digital forensics lab after our previous tech absconded and have inherited an operation held together by duct tape and bubble gum that has been bare-minimum'd for 3 years as far as equipment goes. Our department has decided they want to dump a bunch of money into equipment since I've explained the condition in which I've found everything and the place where we are in most need is storage. Currently, we have a 5 bay Adaptec RAID array and a Drobo 5N. The tech before me setup the RAID as a 0...so you can imagine what happened to me within the first week of me being in charge of it...a drive failed. Fortunately I had realized this problem and had managed to back up almost everything to the Drobo. Currently the Drobo has 15TB worth in it which I think amounts to around 10TB of usable space after redundancy and we are fast running out. Unless it's really the best option I don't really want to set the RAID back up. I'm looking into bigger alternatives. I'd looked into getting one of those 12 bay Drobo's but I've read a lot of horror stories about Drobo's failing and just ending up as black boxes, on top of them costing around $3000 not counting the cost of buying drives for it. I was looking into Synology and some of their stuff. Our needs are that I have to keep data for cases for around 3 years or until a case is disposed. Homicides and Rapes have to be stored forever. 90% of what I process are cellphones and about 10% computers or other devices. Generally data consists of a raw physical dump of the device's drive so most case file range from around 2GB to 8GB on average. Obviously computers are much larger since a physical analysis pulls down all the slack space as well. Everything I work on goes to a "working" HDD where I go through the data and build reports and when I'm done it goes over to the archive. So don't necessarily need anything with an incredibly fast response...although if I had something It would probably be the smarter option considering a failure on the drive I'm using as a work drive would result in losing what I had done. I don't really need a NAS as everything I do is access from one computer that is off the network. I'm not sure of our total storage needs at this time, being able to add on as needed would be the most helpful. Right now I'm nearly at capacity with about 3 years of data on it...the problem is as phone capacity increases rips are getting bigger and bigger and now I'm regularly storing files that are in the 10-20GB range. Please halp goons.
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Aug 1, 2016 14:03
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Your "forever" archive should definitely be optical stored in a fire safe (not that Blurays won't just melt but that's why you have an offsite copy). Dual-layer Bluray is still a thing, right? That's 50GB per disc.
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Aug 1, 2016 15:23
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Shumagorath posted:Your "forever" archive should definitely be optical stored in a fire safe (not that Blurays won't just melt but that's why you have an offsite copy). Dual-layer Bluray is still a thing, right? That's 50GB per disc. Why not tape drives? LTO-6 stuff is really widely available now, and for the quantity of backup he's having to do the 6.25 TB compressed capacity on a single tape would take the sting off.
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Aug 1, 2016 16:38
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I see tape as more for rotating backups than write-once file-forever given the cost per gig.
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Aug 1, 2016 16:45
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Twerk from Home posted:Why not tape drives? LTO-6 stuff is really widely available now, and for the quantity of backup he's having to do the 6.25 TB compressed capacity on a single tape would take the sting off.
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Aug 1, 2016 16:45
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Arsenic Lupin posted:"Forever" means "readable in 50 years", which means you need a format that you are absolutely, positively sure you'll be able to find working readers for. Blu-Ray is a lot more likely than a tape drive. Yeah, tape's a bad call for putting it in a vault. You're right. Will burned blu-rays last 50 years though? I've had burned CDs and DVDs die of old age already!
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Aug 1, 2016 16:46
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Twerk from Home posted:Yeah, tape's a bad call for putting it in a vault. You're right. Will burned blu-rays last 50 years though? I've had burned CDs and DVDs die of old age already! e: Archival digital storage is a really, really hard problem, and both the British Library and the Library of Congress are sweating over it. (A few years back somebody had to hand-build a wire recorder to read WWII stuff, because there were no working wire readers left.) You'd want to do a literature search. Arsenic Lupin fucked around with this message at 16:53 on Aug 1, 2016 |
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Aug 1, 2016 16:49
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Forget Drobo. They are not appropriate to your situation. I don't even really have a recommendation except NOT Drobo, ever. Synology seems pretty good. Plenty of models to choose from that do not use a drobo type proprietary file system.
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Aug 1, 2016 17:41
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Arsenic Lupin posted:(A few years back somebody had to hand-build a wire recorder to read WWII stuff, because there were no working wire readers left.) They should've just called up this guy https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=90ihiTwJPCc
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Aug 1, 2016 17:52
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PerrineClostermann posted:They should've just called up this guy https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=90ihiTwJPCc I misremembered. This is the best cite I could find. quote:What can be done when old devices and software are
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Aug 1, 2016 18:05
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I should preface that "forever" really should mean "for as long as it's my problem"  But yeah blue rays are likely where that stuff will go. Forevers are a really small percentage of total volume though. I just need a large and expandable storage option. Something I regularly back up and store to and occasionally pull data from as it's requested. I need a recommendation for a "better than a drobo" drobo, that's a little more flexible than just a RAID array as drives die/need to be expanded.
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Aug 1, 2016 18:12
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Twerk from Home posted:Yeah, tape's a bad call for putting it in a vault. You're right. Will burned blu-rays last 50 years though? I've had burned CDs and DVDs die of old age already!
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Aug 1, 2016 18:14
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Most important thing about any optical media is to keep it a away from UV rays as these will cause damage to both CDs, DVDs and blurays that's commonly known as disc-rot - but since you're putting it in a safe, I'd say you're relatively safe on that account (anything high-energy enough to penetrate through a safe is beyond what you can possibly hope to protect against unless you have the budget of Library of Congress). So while you're burning the discs and until they're in the safe, make sure they get as little as possible/no exposure to sunlight, and consider having a few new (unopened) disc readers in there as well.
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Aug 1, 2016 18:29
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Shachi posted:I should preface that "forever" really should mean "for as long as it's my problem" Synology stuff is pretty good. Check out the DS2415+ if you want 12 bays, DS1815+ if you can get away with 8.
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Aug 1, 2016 18:38
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D. Ebdrup posted:So while you're burning the discs and until they're in the safe, make sure they get as little as possible/no exposure to sunlight, and consider having a few new (unopened) disc readers in there as well.
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Aug 1, 2016 18:40
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Twerk from Home posted:Synology stuff is pretty good. Check out the DS2415+ if you want 12 bays, DS1815+ if you can get away with 8. Am I correct in my understanding that drobo store data in a proprietary format their "beyond raid bullshit"? There fore a failure of the device means buying another to read the data? Does Synology do this or is it just a RAID setup that is managed by the device.
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Aug 1, 2016 19:43
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Shachi posted:Am I correct in my understanding that drobo store data in a proprietary format their "beyond raid bullshit"? There fore a failure of the device means buying another to read the data? Yeah you would have to buy another Drobo to recover anything if the main one died. I don't think recovery software understands their RAID system though I could be wrong. Synology uses industry standard file systems so you should be good to go.
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Aug 1, 2016 19:57
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Arsenic Lupin posted:And that does you no good without compatible software...
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Aug 1, 2016 20:40
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One of the more commonly experienced problems with technology moving forward is in emulator designs for old game consoles. Some software was designed very, very closely coupled to the hardware it was designed for, and it's resulted in software that runs somewhat incorrectly unless it's simulated nearly perfectly down to fractions of clock cycles. Programmers today respect someone that codes like Mel but nobody actually writes software like that unless they somewhat have to. PS3 developers had to do some pretty funky hacks due to the hardware architecture on occasion, and not everything will be ported to the PS4 either by sheer virtue of different architectures. At the moment, CD-ROMs are pretty close to the best shot for archives. Most of the failures of WORM optical media are from defective manufacturing (I think a Bruce Springsteen CD from the 80s has almost no copies left of the pressing due to mass oxidation problems). Backup tapes are somewhat ok in reliability and most of the failures are a result of improper storage of the backup tapes rather than something inherently wrong with the media. Even still, backup tapes are supposed to be in a modular rotation and on occasion shipped offsite for long term retention. But folks like Iron Mountain will probably re-copy everything onto newer drives for you if you had to move on.
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Aug 1, 2016 21:01
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Thanks for the input. I'm glad I could start a discussion on "forever" storage and the wooooorld of tomorrrowwww.
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Aug 1, 2016 21:09
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necrobobsledder posted:Backup tapes are somewhat ok in reliability and most of the failures are a result of improper storage of the backup tapes rather than something inherently wrong with the media. Even still, backup tapes are supposed to be in a modular rotation and on occasion shipped offsite for long term retention. But folks like Iron Mountain will probably re-copy everything onto newer drives for you if you had to move on. Provided, of course, that whenever you "have to move on", there's still a working tape drive that can read your tapes, and a server that can work with that tape drive, and that server can provide the data from those tapes onto whatever more modern format you're moving to. To me, it seems like the easiest solution to this is basically to treat everything as active. It's not an ideal solution from a cost perspective, but it means everything is in a "current" format.
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Aug 2, 2016 00:24
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Also just make a list of media that will always be available that you don't really need to be the ultimate custodian of -- I'm thinking of my 7 seasons of The Simpsons for example. If you trim down to the documents that are genuinely meaningful then keeping them active shouldn't be a big issue.
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Aug 2, 2016 02:56
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IOwnCalculus posted:To me, it seems like the easiest solution to this is basically to treat everything as active. It's not an ideal solution from a cost perspective, but it means everything is in a "current" format. Not everyone pays for active data everywhere like with Isilon systems exactly. Otherwise... you wind up being like the US government literally paying a manufacturer of archaic technology to stay in business so that you can operate equipment from the 1970s exactly as-is. Nobody thinks they're efficient with capital though...
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Aug 2, 2016 03:53
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So I'm planning on upgrading from my 2600k to something modern sometime in the near future, and I'm hoping to use it to replace my NAS, which is currently running on an e6750 with 6GB of RAM. How easy is it to move my FreeNAS setup to a new machine?
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Aug 2, 2016 04:04
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When I switched from running freenas in a vm to bare metal, I think it was: backup config and then detach volumes. Install freenas to usb on new machine, import disks and import config.
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Aug 2, 2016 05:36
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