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Yukitsu posted:I do, but I'm here you can just ask me questions. I'm kinda curious what the multi-player meta is like for each faction but I have no patience for videos. What's each faction good at in MP and how do they stack against each other?
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Aug 1, 2016 23:21
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Oh god I've been rolling everything as orks on hard but now kholek and sigvald have show up with double-giant doomstacks in my weakest province. Honestly why can't they go after grimgor with his two giant spiders
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Aug 1, 2016 23:26
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Sharzak posted:I'm kinda curious what the multi-player meta is like for each faction but I have no patience for videos. What's each faction good at in MP and how do they stack against each other? These are in order. IMO Empire is still the top quick battle faction. Huge versatility, loads of strong specialists, impossible to predict what they'll bring: Orcs are one of the stronger factions against the Empire, they're really strong against everything else though. The main problem is they do require a lot of unit knowledge, positioning and micro to play. Vampires are still pretty top tier, a few of their units are ridiculous and invocation makes it really hard to play around them. Brettonia works well against Vampires thanks to the grail knights being a strong counter against them. They also shut out any Vampire air play. Orcs may be hedging a bit stronger than vampires now but I still think of them as 3rd. Really, really solid units all around, the arachnarok is one of the best single units in the game even after the nerf, one of the strongest anti-cav/monster comps in the game. Orcs are a bit like Empire, they have good solutions against every faction. I think I'd give vampires the best odds of winning against them but even then, orcs have no great counters they're just a bit less flexible than the Empire. Bretonnia around here maybe. It's a hard call. Superb stats for cost on their roster makes it almost impossible to beat them on value. Their roster has some bad holes though which makes it harder to keep them alive. Tend to find dwarves are a bit tough for them but nothing crazy. The Empire as well can duel down the knights forcing the Bretts to go peasant spam which can suffer a little. Orcs also can win the cavalry duels and are a good pick for that purpose. Chaos I feel has been boosted up to fourth and they hard counter beastment in my experience. Forsaken still carry them somewhat but we're getting close to the point where chosen are relevant. Chaos gets stomped by the Empire who can afford loads of armour piercing and which don't lose in the air against chaos. The Empire and dwarves shut out monster play which is very important for Chaos. Beastment I feel are around here. They have some really powerful bullshit like devolve and cygors, but they come out slowly and devolve can be played around pretty easily. (splitting units away from the target). Chaos, dwarves feel like they're both extremely strong vs. Beastmen. Dwarves are pretty tough for them as well. Orcs as well since minotaurs almost automatically lose against savage orc biguns and they have no really great cost effective counters against the spider. Dwarves are around here, their buffs just weren't as strong as the chaos ones. Both I felt were fishing for the slot near bottom. Still, extremely good value on their lower and mid tier units lets them pull out some wins, extremely potent characters now thanks to the runepriest buffs. Countered by anybody that's smart enough to take armour piercing. The worst matchup is against Undead though since you have to guess if it's gonna be ghosts, graveguard or crypt horrors, each requires a completely different dwarven unit to counter.
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Aug 1, 2016 23:48
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These PartyElite videos are awesome for a Total War Total Noob like myself.
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Aug 2, 2016 01:15
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Jack the Lad posted:Are there any let's plays/videos/channels that people would recommend which go into the mechanics and tactics quite a bit? Second on Heir of Carthage. Chill guy who's not a super-sperg about the game. Usually does one campaign and one multiplayer video a day. I used his videos to finally start playing the campaigns in these games because I never really knew where to start in them.
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Aug 2, 2016 01:58
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 This is the raiding B team that consists of all the Gors that were obsoleted by Minotaurs all camping in the safe spot to the side while Malagor singlehandedly cleans out the entire Karak with Devolve.
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Aug 2, 2016 02:15
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There's just one thing I don't like about playing Beastmen/Empire with summoning wizards: the fact they can summon more than one Manticore/Cygor so you have two of those summonable units at the same time. I get that it's a one-shot spell per wizard, but it should follow a rule where if one of those creatures is in play, summoning another will automatically kill the first summoned creature. Also, I have not yet won a battle against MP Beastmen yet. I've tried splitting troops against Devolve but the spell, when it triggers, will hit the unit even if you pull them out of the ridiculously large radius. Minotaurs and Gorebulls are also super tanky, and while I've tried following the advice of "kill the rest of the army and the heroes will rout", it's not worked yet. 
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Aug 2, 2016 03:24
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Olive Branch posted:There's just one thing I don't like about playing Beastmen/Empire with summoning wizards: the fact they can summon more than one Manticore/Cygor so you have two of those summonable units at the same time. I get that it's a one-shot spell per wizard, but it should follow a rule where if one of those creatures is in play, summoning another will automatically kill the first summoned creature. Literally the League Of Legends strategy. Beastmen have a ton of unique abilities on their units that I hope existing units get a retrofit ("Stubborn" should be something besides just high morale). Centigors with immunity to fatigue effects is a huge deal for example. Speaking of, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=robS7ki8rh4
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Aug 2, 2016 03:32
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oou90rhLN4M Look at this poo poo. Look at what Devolve does. (First couple of minutes)
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Aug 2, 2016 03:33
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ZearothK posted:I believe in terms of races we'll get Wood Elves (with accompanying mini-campaign) and Bretonnia (as FLC), then the rest of the DLCs for the game will be the Lord packs, then we will only get more content in the expandalone. This sounds good to me but I really hope we also get Lizardmen somehow. I won't even mind spending big bucks for it.
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Aug 2, 2016 03:38
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Yeah it's obvious something is physically broken with Devolve, probably with the Overcasting code specifically. E: Zaphod42 posted:This sounds good to me but I really hope we also get Lizardmen somehow. I won't even mind spending big bucks for it. Lizardmen are absolutely going to show up, but not as DLC for this part of the "trilogy". 100% certain. Triskelli fucked around with this message at 03:42 on Aug 2, 2016 |
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Aug 2, 2016 03:40
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Yukitsu posted:These are in order. I'd rate them Greenskins > Empire > Vampires > Beastmen > Brettonia > Chaos > Dwarves greenskins are top mostly because they beat empire and don't lose to anybody else. they're just really good at everything, except their archers are kinda eh, but they have doom divers to account for that. and their cavalry is like third best instead of second best but they might be the best anti-cav faction so it evens out, and they have spiders. they have a few less options than the empire but the options they do have are stronger, and their missing options are ones that are forgivable. empire is second because they beat most everything but are pretty tough to play and require very specific comps that can be countered if the enemy knows what counters their typical strategy. they're the protagonist faction so they have the most options but unlike greenskins some of those options are just decent. vamps are strong but most factions have some combination of units that can just bruteforce the nehek cheese so they aren't as strong as greenskins. however they're incredibly simple to play. just make a big ball of dudes and attack move them with nehek up. they have a few non-cheese options too, like blood knights. beastmen are really strong with devolve but devolve is counterable (bring like four melee heroes all with pots and spread your troops) and without it they're just kind of a one trick pony and half the factions in the game just gently caress minotaurs with basic, cheaper units. they're the definition of stealing wins: if one of their two gimmicks works, you lose, but if it doesn't then you win. cygors are good but not enough to carry them if the devolve fails and if they have ways to counter minotaurs. bretonnia is like the exact opposite of greenskins. Instead of being really good at everything, they're the best at a couple of things. anything that can beat their cavalry fucks them. they're great against vampires but struggle against empire and greenskins. chaos get stomped by all the top factions and just don't have options. forsaken are good units and they have giants and that's about it. dwarves are just too slow to live. All their units are actually good in most areas but every faction can counter them in really braindead ways and the top factions have like seven ways to counter them and it's impossible to account for all of them. They don't really have tricks to steal wins, either, since nobody is just going to sit there and let you spam artillery. they do okay against a few factions but there are other factions that beat chaos and bretonnia. like, most of them.
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Aug 2, 2016 04:14
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also im looking forward to ogres being added to the game because i'd love a faction that is nothing but Large
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Aug 2, 2016 04:18
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Chaos would be top tier if you could bring in a friend to control your hellcannons for you. In co-op campaigns your partner will rack up 300+ kills with those things.
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Aug 2, 2016 04:27
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Nanomashoes posted:Chaos would be top tier if you could bring in a friend to control your hellcannons for you. In co-op campaigns your partner will rack up 300+ kills with those things. You can literally do this unless I'm not understanding what you mean. Are you referring to the grand campaign or multiplayer? vvvvvvvvvvvvvv My bad I got confused.
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Aug 2, 2016 04:43
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Fresh Shesh Besh posted:You can literally do this unless I'm not understanding what you mean.
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Aug 2, 2016 04:44
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What should an early ork army look like? Their archers seem lacking-- do you still grab a few? I noticed on turn 1 you can shoot straight for mounted units if you want. Is that a good idea?
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Aug 2, 2016 04:50
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Getting all those sacrifices so you can get Kahzrak in the grand campaign is a pain in the rear end, moreso because you need Kahzrak to even beat their campaign. That wasn't well thought out.
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Aug 2, 2016 04:53
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Megasabin posted:What should an early ork army look like? Their archers seem lacking-- do you still grab a few? I noticed on turn 1 you can shoot straight for mounted units if you want. Is that a good idea?
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Aug 2, 2016 04:55
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Megasabin posted:What should an early ork army look like? Their archers seem lacking-- do you still grab a few? I noticed on turn 1 you can shoot straight for mounted units if you want. Is that a good idea? Spear goblins are surprisingly good, orc boys are passable filler, boar boys are your first worthwhile cav and only for rear charges. What's really important is getting to 20 units so you can get a waaagh going. Your armies will win or lose depending on whether you can get those free stacks to spawn or not.
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Aug 2, 2016 04:55
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Yukitsu posted:Dwarves are around here, their buffs just weren't as strong as the chaos ones. Both I felt were fishing for the slot near bottom. Still, extremely good value on their lower and mid tier units lets them pull out some wins, extremely potent characters now thanks to the runepriest buffs. Endorph posted:dwarves are just too slow to live. All their units are actually good in most areas but every faction can counter them in really braindead ways and the top factions have like seven ways to counter them and it's impossible to account for all of them. They don't really have tricks to steal wins, either, since nobody is just going to sit there and let you spam artillery. they do okay against a few factions but there are other factions that beat chaos and bretonnia. like, most of them. So how would Dwarfs be brought up to the middle of the pack without becoming equally braindead? Most of their options right now require nearly zero attention or too much micromanagement to be as effective as they are in singleplayer.
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Aug 2, 2016 05:39
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Deified Data posted:Getting all those sacrifices so you can get Kahzrak in the grand campaign is a pain in the rear end, moreso because you need Kahzrak to even beat their campaign. That wasn't well thought out.  Beastmen so far for me was the faction where the field battles just never ended, had Kahzrak unlocked already by turn 40 or so(didn't 100% beeline for it, I had a lot of people eaten post battle), just about same time when I had infrastructure and spare growth ready for a 3rd horde. Having one big stack with a smaller stack as bait works wonders togheter with hidden encampment that makes setting up a trap so very easy. Also any battle where the enemy attacked a non encamped bait stack with full stack sitting hidden nearby also seemed to disable their reinforcements as an extra bonus. Hidden encamp traps are broken good. Otherwise could always start with Kazrak since Malagos unlocks from the building you'd beeline for casters and Cygors anyways. You won't be able to punch as much above your weight early game without Devolve but Kazrak's start is also easier opponent and terrain wise, plus he has the better starting army and faction traits.
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Aug 2, 2016 05:52
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rockopete posted:I'm very cagey with siege battles since some nasty experiences in some of my earlier games. I'll have to try just gatecrashing, it's been touch and go trying to leave a siege for at least 3 turns in the mini campaign so I can get some towers (kiting those stupid manlings all around the forest is wicked fun though). If it's as easy as it sounds, then yeah Bestigors are pretty useless. Also I forgot about the 3 turn recruitment vs 2 turns for minotaurs, christ it's not even a choice. My primary army at the end of E4E was 4 units of minotaur, one centigor, a couple heroes and then ungor herds/raiders. Send two minotaur to each gate while the ungor climb ladders. Worked for basically every siege I can remember. Their lineup as a whole seems poorly balanced. I decided to try razorgore in the GC and they did gently caress all. They have so little health that they just immediately melt once they make contact. Gor herds don't make a lot of sense to me either. You gain a few stats over an ungor herd but lose stalk and shields? Not worth it imo, stalk is hilarious and shields are useful against ranged heavy Empire stacks.
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Aug 2, 2016 08:07
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Endorph posted:I'd rate them Greenskins > Empire > Vampires > Beastmen > Brettonia > Chaos > Dwarves What is it that makes greenskins the best anti-cav faction?
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Aug 2, 2016 09:57
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Gammymajams posted:What is it that makes greenskins the best anti-cav faction? Boar boy big 'uns, I suspect.
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Aug 2, 2016 10:34
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Are warhounds really a bad pick? I picked two units of them as Chaos during a multiplayer match and my teammate went ballistic on me. I mostly keep them around as a cheap way to chase down routing units as it's really nice to just not have to worry about a routing cavalry or heavy infantry coming back to the field. It's been successful for me so far.
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Aug 2, 2016 11:54
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Gammymajams posted:What is it that makes greenskins the best anti-cav faction? Plan Z posted:Are warhounds really a bad pick? I picked two units of them as Chaos during a multiplayer match and my teammate went ballistic on me. I mostly keep them around as a cheap way to chase down routing units as it's really nice to just not have to worry about a routing cavalry or heavy infantry coming back to the field. It's been successful for me so far. A couple of units of them is fine for that exact role, but you don't want more than that, and I wouldn't bother spending the extra money for poison ones. So your teammates were just dumb.
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Aug 2, 2016 11:56
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Plan Z posted:Are warhounds really a bad pick? I picked two units of them as Chaos during a multiplayer match and my teammate went ballistic on me. I mostly keep them around as a cheap way to chase down routing units as it's really nice to just not have to worry about a routing cavalry or heavy infantry coming back to the field. It's been successful for me so far. warhounds do very anemic damage to anything with armor but they can tear archers and artillery to shreds and move crazy fast. Other than vs a Vampire death ball or dwarves, chaos hounds are pretty good in small numbers
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Aug 2, 2016 12:31
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Plan Z posted:Are warhounds really a bad pick? I picked two units of them as Chaos during a multiplayer match and my teammate went ballistic on me. I mostly keep them around as a cheap way to chase down routing units as it's really nice to just not have to worry about a routing cavalry or heavy infantry coming back to the field. It's been successful for me so far. Two for that exact reason are a good pick - chaos low speed and low overall # of units per army makes it hard to spare infantry to run down routers. However chaos are considered not great in multiplayer so maybe he was just flipping out about that? Either way your fine and your teammate was an idiot.
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Aug 2, 2016 12:51
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Alright started a Undead campaign on Hard and after a few bad starts, I managed to get both west and east Sylvania and build them up. Now that there no other undeads, what should be my aim from now on? Is there an easy way to get vampiric corruption going to nearby provinces? What should be my first target, attacking North into the Empire, or taking out the neutrals in the Moot and other regions, or maybe striking south? Should I be worried about the dwarves/Zhufbar?
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Aug 2, 2016 13:04
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Tekopo posted:Alright started a Undead campaign on Hard and after a few bad starts, I managed to get both west and east Sylvania and build them up. Now that there no other undeads, what should be my aim from now on? Is there an easy way to get vampiric corruption going to nearby provinces? What should be my first target, attacking North into the Empire, or taking out the neutrals in the Moot and other regions, or maybe striking south? Should I be worried about the dwarves/Zhufbar? The best way to spread corruption is through agents and the balefire line of buildings. Also, the 'blood' line (lower right hand corner) of technologies has a 'vampire coven' tech (or something like that) that spreads corruption around your provinces. That line of tech is full of excellent techs that will really help your campaign. Your aim is up to you, but often a lot of VC players pick a neighboring empire faction and start to spread (if you didn't know, there is quite a bit of variance in the diplomatic relations of the factions whenever you start a new campaign). If you want to be careful, check diplomatic relations and pick on the human faction that the other human factions don't like very much. You just have to be careful that they all don't start confederating with the empire, because that makes your 'destroy the empire' winning condition more difficult. Personally as VC I don't like to go too far north, since that's where the chaos invasion will come from and you're better off letting Kislev or whatever other human factions take a beating (you can always go back in and take the ruins afterwards) and deal with the vargs and skaelings. Instead I typically take over the south half of the human lands and pound the neighboring dwarfs to dust as I go. Some people like to go south and take over the border princes, which sort of naturally moves you over to Estalia / Tilea and the other human areas. I haven' tried that but it sounds like fun. Aside from the border princes, the entire southeast is orc/dwarf settlements that you can't occupy anyway. Yes you should be worried about the dwarfs and zhufbar, since often zhufbar will confederate leaving you with dwarf settlements right on your doorstep. Many people like pounding on zhufbar until they become your vassal, which sounds awesome but has never worked for me. Some people even somehow become allies with dwarf factions but that has never worked out for me either. Instead I typically use Zhufbar and Oakenhammer as free loot and xp pinatas for a while until eventually destroying them. I know you're already into your campaign, but one piece of advice that can help is to subjugate sylvania instead of taking them over, since it gives you an ally with a full army and a trade partner at the cost of one minor settlement (you can do also do the same thing with Templehof). One VC victory condition is to make sure the dwarf faction is destroyed (not all the dwarfs, just the Thorgrim faction). Often the greenskins will just take care of them without you worrying about it, but if the dwarfs win and start spreading all over the place you will have a ton of painful battles ahead (attrition in the mountains, fighting dwarfs with walls, etc) so I like to make sure the greenskins come out on top (they are annoying and will probably attack you sooner or later, but at least you don't need to clear out every stinking mountain settlement). Also I haven't played a VC campaign yet with beastmen so some of this advice may be a little out of date (like the Estalia area isn't quite as safe as it used to be). Damn Dirty Ape fucked around with this message at 13:30 on Aug 2, 2016 |
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Aug 2, 2016 13:20
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CA just put out a hotfix patch as a beta. https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/182112/total-war-warhammer-call-of-the-beastmen-hotfix-02-08-2016/p1?new=1 Basically nerfed Devolve, rebalanced the mini-campaign slightly and some technical fixes.
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Aug 2, 2016 14:09
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https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/182112/total-war-warhammer-call-of-the-beastmen-hotfix-02-08-2016/p1?new=1 New beta hot fix for beastmen issues. quote:Re-balanced the Devolve spell in Call of the Beastmen. e;fb
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Aug 2, 2016 14:21
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madmac posted:CA just put out a hotfix patch as a beta. Shame they didn't take out or modify the 'confederate 2 tribes' ultimate objective. It's too easy to fail that one through no fault of your own.
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Aug 2, 2016 14:23
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drat Dirty Ape posted:Shame they didn't take out or modify the 'confederate 2 tribes' ultimate objective. It's too easy to fail that one through no fault of your own. I was thinking exactly that. I haven't gone too deep into it yet, but I've yet to meet another tribe without it getting wiped out within half a dozen turns.
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Aug 2, 2016 14:30
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Tehan posted:I was thinking exactly that. I haven't gone too deep into it yet, but I've yet to meet another tribe without it getting wiped out within half a dozen turns. I had a couple survive. One confederated the turn after I did the mission to impress them. The other one absolutely refused to confederate no matter what, so I said screw it and just took the normal victory.
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Aug 2, 2016 14:49
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I am getting absolutely wrecked as Beastmen. Finding it the hardest campaign by far. Any tips? Everybody made it sound like their start was way better than Chaos, but Chaos I'm usually fine with. This has two stacks right off, but the starting location I feel like has you surrounded by some pretty powerful dudes that ramp up in power really fast. I have to raze a lot of towns in order to just barely break even on income, but then I have to keep moving deeper and deeper into empire territory and they just get stronger and stronger. I cleared out the area you start in and split my armies, one went north into Empire land and another went east into Empire/Orc lands, and I didn't realize until too late that there was no easy way to join them back up, I'm going to have to go alllll the way around these mountains. Maybe that was a mistake? But this way I have two different hordes raiding in different areas so I'm making more money... How often do you just like gently caress around while rading and how often do you actually assault / raze a town? I feel dumb just passing turns while sitting there "raiding" but if I'm constantly assaulting towns then you end up facing some uphill battles pretty fast. Help I need an adult
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Aug 2, 2016 15:06
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I spent ages just raiding - it was my default stance to move around in, most of the time, and I'd only loot and raze to get cash injections and when I was ready to move on. I think it's not worthwhile to raze early on because if you let the AI build up its settlements a little then you get way more raiding income.
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Aug 2, 2016 15:12
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Also I recommend scrapping the second stack, you get a lot less desperate in terms of income with a single one and you're in no rush to kill your targets. Hidden stance is protection enough from getting attacked and killed by a pair of enemy doomstacks. Make a second stack either when you can have Malagor (and have him constantly following your main army as a mage auxiliary) or when you've got a huge amount of cash in the bank and the ability to recruit a quarter of an army in your main stack to transfer units to the second, so both are capable of supporting Brayherds and fighting independently in a few turns.
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Aug 2, 2016 15:33
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Zaphod42 posted:I am getting absolutely wrecked as Beastmen. Finding it the hardest campaign by far. Any tips? As beastmen I found myself taking targets of opportunity rather than following any particular plan for the first long while. I got the hell out of the badlands as soon as possible--you match up poorly with Orcs and Dwarfs early on until you get your minotaurs. From the Malagor start I first moved East and razed the Dringorackaz areas where I could, abusing the poo poo out of beast path. I only picked fights with smaller orc and dwarf factions to build up a war chest for the move North, but ended up running into some juicy targets on the way up and war deccing anyway, razing the Dwarf capital for a big chunk of change. I kept going pretty much all the way North through the Drakenwald for that Malagor quest and spent a big chunk of the campaign in that area. I found myself taking advantage of infighting between human states, finishing off weak factions and striking at strong ones while they were preoccupied. By this time you should be able to get Gor Herds and Minotaurs, Malagor should have Devolve and Savage Dominion, and you can start being much more bold. Abuse the poo poo out of your Brayherds. Only ever siege a city if you have a Brayherd to send. The bestigors they come with are great for taking walls and the chaos spawn will get gates down quickly. The economy was definitely pretty tough. Your raiding stance is pretty strong but you really, really only want to use it when you're not going to pick a fight. I kept my hordes glued to one another until Malagor got a substantial 20 stack and I wish I'd done it the whole game--i ended up getting my second stack wiped on like turn 80 and I hadn't built a third by then because I never had a level of income or a substantial enough war chest to support it. Ultimately they did a good job making beastmen play on the campaign how they "should." you show up, ambush an army, raze a city, and melt back into the woods. If an area of the world is too hot, get the gently caress out and go pick on someone who has their armies elsewhere.
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Aug 2, 2016 16:14
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