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Binary Logic posted:Good start. You probably don't need a humidifier. "Misting" is kind of a misnomer; when the air is dry or when the snake is in shed I do more like gentle rain twice a day. Okay, I've limited him to his heat lamp then and not the under tank heater. I do already have an IR temperature gun and a cheap food scale. I've ordered a hide and bowl and a spray bottle, and have settled his hide further into the bedding for now. I'll order a Herpstat soon enough ( I have some stuff to ebay that I no longer use enough to justify keeping, I'll just use all of that towards a basic Herpstat) and probably just a length of the Big Apple heat tape, I've been warned away from Zoo Med by a couple people already. I'll order that sooner so I can just discard the dual light and get him a proper light bar or spot as needed with a hanger. As far as cage goes, he is in a basic aquarium/terrarium he came with that also included a screen top. The small mist bottle I am borrowing is definitely having a struggle keeping the humidity constant, even with half the screen covered. Is there a different recommended style of cage, or is the wire mesh screen top pretty much the only solution? It has no clips or anything, it just sets on top and the lamp sits on there. My main big concern with getting him into ideal conditions and a good cage and proper heat and humidity is mostly just stemming from how bad his cage was when I got it, the glass is still slightly etched in a couple spots that the SOS pad could do nothing about, so just with my best guess of how well the previous owner did (and going by the light and hide cleanliness) I'd just like to get him set up properly with the essentials set correctly for his ideal health and in a cage with the right hide and water bowl and some decor so it isn't so sparse and boring; give him a better home and all.
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Jul 13, 2016 19:09
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If the top screen is not held firmly down, the snake will eventually get out! Now I am no expert, and as I said you don't have to do everything at the beginning. This is the enclosure after a few years of trials and tribulations. The plastic plants are good for misting, I soak them and then the water can drip/evaporate for a while. There's wallpaper wrapped around the sides and back, and over that is Reflectix. Also on the top, with cut out areas for lamp and for ventilation. There's a red and white bulb; most of the time I only use the white one when cleaning LOL. Rarely use it for heat but winters do get cold up here in Canada. I like the Reflectix but there are many other options. In theory, the air warms on the left side with the warm hide, and vents out the hole on the right.   There's a lot of clutter with 2 hides and the 2 back corners clear, he has several options. It takes more effort to spot clean and full clean but I only have 2 snakes so don't mind, and when he gets bigger I can remove some of the decor. For feeding I remove either the cool hide in the middle or the water bowl and use the open area to dangle his dinner. Binary Logic fucked around with this message at 01:12 on Jul 14, 2016 |
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Jul 14, 2016 00:48
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That is actually perfect for my needs, as I actually have a good sized sheet of that material around and can get it up on top. assuming it is easily found (it's in storage, somewhere). I have a large plastic plant that should hold the water like that, so that should get things further along. Getting it most of the needed gear at once is not something I'll likely do as a setup like that would be overboard to just jump into with controlled everything and all, but I'm keeping that as my goal mostly since I have a bunch of stuff in storage that I genuinely needed the excuse to sell, as with some other things happening none of it was easy to get, so getting supplies is a good excuse to pile everything out and figure out which of five people the stuff that isn't mine goes to and what I can get sold and what to sell where. I've had an undertank heater heavily recommended, really all I will be snagging short term is that and a controller so it has some ideal heat for digestion and such that I understand they need it for. That and the reflective insulation on top should definitely hold a more constant tank and a good enough setup for it for now without going overboard on features or providing too much variation.
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Jul 14, 2016 19:35
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Yes you're on the right track. BPs are hardy, as long as temp and humidity are on point it will be okay in a quiet dark area. When I first started out, was using a $15 lamp dimmer switch to control the UTH and another for the light and taking the temperature of the floor of the enclosure twice a day. Not recommending this but the snake was okay.
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Jul 15, 2016 00:43
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Binary Logic posted:If the top screen is not held firmly down, the snake will eventually get out! What is that you're using for the top of your tank to insulate heat? Looks like one of those car windshield heat reflectors? My girlfriend and I are looking at something to insulate the top of the tank (it's still just mesh right now), she was thinking of getting some plexiglass cut for it, but that looks like a much better solution.
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Jul 29, 2016 16:29
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Also, does anyone have any recomendations on where to grab frozen rats online? Any place that humanely kills the rats is preferred. We were grabbed a few from a local pet store but have decided not to get anymore from them after finding out they basically kill the rats by slamming their heads against a countertop 
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Jul 30, 2016 16:58
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I guess that doesn't seem all that bad to me. The rats die very quickly that way.
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Jul 31, 2016 00:02
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Handsome Ralph posted:Also, does anyone have any recomendations on where to grab frozen rats online? Any place that humanely kills the rats is preferred. Most of the big rodent companies kill via CO2 suffocation. A quick thump if done correctly is almost surely less painful
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Jul 31, 2016 01:21
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Layne Labs is probably the most professional feeling feeder company I have used. Big Cheese Rodent Factory is good too . I think most online rodent companies use the co2 method which is a little less violent than the smashing heads, and they basically just fall asleep. I would personally not buy from the place that kills them violently like that. It's just unnecessary. I do RodentPro some times but while they are cheaper, they have had some controversy with how healthy their rats are. I haven't had any bad experiences personally but I have heard stories. ETA if you're going to physically kill a feeder rodent, the pencil behind the skull/ quick pull up on the tail to break the neck is the way to go. It's more controlled than just bashing the poor sucker. HungryMedusa fucked around with this message at 01:47 on Jul 31, 2016 |
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Jul 31, 2016 01:44
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My two leopard gecko girls have been living in a styrofoam cave for a few months that I kept meaning to grout and paint and make all pretty-lookin', but that would've involved taking it away from them for a week or so to ensure it was all dry before giving it back and they love it so much I just couldn't bring myself to do it. I put two entrances in it and they both sit half-in, half-out of each entrance snoozing or watching the world go by, it's adorable. Out of guilt for them having an unfinished hide I bought this amazing looking thing: http://wimblettproducts.co.uk/collections/frontpage/products/fossil-reptile-hide-cave-climbing-rock-for-gecko-snake-lizard-spider Hopefully they like it because I think it looks awesome. I might swap out their reptile carpet and replace it with something a little sandier.. I was wondering if maybe pouring sand onto the sticky side of adhesive vinyl tiles would be alright? That way the adhesive would be covered in sand, and the sand wouldn't be loose and so they couldn't ingest it. Wonder if it'd be harder to clean than the carpet.
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Jul 31, 2016 04:45
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HungryMedusa posted:Layne Labs is probably the most professional feeling feeder company I have used. Big Cheese Rodent Factory is good too . I think most online rodent companies use the co2 method which is a little less violent than the smashing heads, and they basically just fall asleep.
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Jul 31, 2016 08:32
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Handsome Ralph posted:What is that you're using for the top of your tank to insulate heat? Looks like one of those car windshield heat reflectors? https://www.homedepot.ca/en/home/p.bubble-pack-2x10.1000407996.html dog days are over posted:My two leopard gecko girls have been living in a styrofoam cave for a few months that I kept meaning to grout and paint and make all pretty-lookin', but that would've involved taking it away from them for a week or so to ensure it was all dry before giving it back and they love it so much I just couldn't bring myself to do it. I put two entrances in it and they both sit half-in, half-out of each entrance snoozing or watching the world go by, it's adorable. Yes that does look nice. That Wimblett site has pretty good selection and a 10% discount code. 
Binary Logic fucked around with this message at 13:39 on Jul 31, 2016 |
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Jul 31, 2016 13:35
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Knormal posted:Carbon dioxide (CO2) or Carbon monoxide (CO)? Carbon monoxide is the one that just puts you to sleep, carbon dioxide is the one that triggers your suffocating response and is probably pretty unpleasant. Layne Labs uses co2. They say it is "humane quick and painless." I guess we can't really ask the rats what it's like though. It might be awful. Killing feeders isn't perfect any way you do it. I just would worry about the times you go to hit one on the counter or whatever and you slip or miss and then have to try again.
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Jul 31, 2016 16:54
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Knormal posted:Carbon dioxide (CO2) or Carbon monoxide (CO)? Carbon monoxide is the one that just puts you to sleep, carbon dioxide is the one that triggers your suffocating response and is probably pretty unpleasant. Low concentrations of CO2 produce effects, above about 10% will be a pretty quick death from aspyxiation. OSHA has a pretty thorough list of reports from asphyxiation, most of them sum up as "someone was working in an area and the oxygen content dipped too low or another gas built up too high and they dropped dead without really noticing anything". Not that anyone necessarily wants to think about it, but CO or CO2 should both be pretty humane if done by a professional group, so hopefully that will be some relief compared to other options or less professional people doing the euthanasia.
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Aug 1, 2016 03:44
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A colleague at work used to work for the bio department at the local uni, she was in the team that took care of a lot of animals. The easiest death would be breaking the neck, this is the quickest, most painless death for most animals. In science this is apparently done when you don't want any 3rd party substances in the animal that could mess with your test results. As for mass killing, CO2 is apparently the most humane way to do that. The only issue with CO2 systems is that some animals realize what's about to happen and panic when they see the devices.
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Aug 1, 2016 09:49
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quote:The key to using CO2 humanely is its concentration. The normal concentration of CO2 in the air is only 0.038%. According to the 2000 Report of the AVMA Panel on Euthanasia, breathing concentrations of 7.5% increases the pain threshold, and concentrations of 30-40% cause anesthesia (unconsciousness) within 1-2 minutes. However, concentrations of 50% or higher irritate the eyes and respiratory tract and cause pain. Your goal is to create a concentration of 30-40% CO2 and hold it there until the rat is unconscious. From the rat fanclub, so fair enough. Neck breaking is a nice idea in practice but I'm not sure how reliably it can be done instantly and first time.
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Aug 1, 2016 14:35
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I think the problem me and my (veterinarian) girlfriend have with euthanizing by breaking the neck (at this place anyways), is that it's done by a kid working retail, not a guy in a lab, and he's doing it to fill a freezer so they have rats on hand to sell. Hell, one of the rats they sold us had clear bruising on it from being slammed against a counter (and that was how they chose to describe the process when my girlfriend inquired). So if it were a case of each rat being euthanized with the pencil method or some such, I doubt either of us would care, but CO2 seems like the only way to euthanize mass quantities while keeping things relatively humane. Handsome Ralph fucked around with this message at 04:43 on Aug 2, 2016 |
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Aug 1, 2016 22:35
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I use a rodent trebuchet to launch them against a brick wall, humanely killing them and also making outsider art.
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Aug 1, 2016 23:18
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Big Centipede posted:I use a rodent trebuchet to launch them against a brick wall, humanely killing them and also making outsider art. Very nice way to re-enter the thread 😝 On topic, this is the real reason I don't have any snakes - it really bothered me to feed them.
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Aug 2, 2016 03:04
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BarqueCat posted:Very nice way to re-enter the thread 😝 Real talk: I'm actually pretty soft hearted and don't like to kill anything, but I approached prekilling as being merciful. Better to be killed instantly than constricted by a snake.
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Aug 2, 2016 03:15
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Local/EU laws actually forbids live feeding in most of western Europe. This is probably a good thing, some edge cases of difficult feeders excluded.
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Aug 2, 2016 08:11
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Do they go out into the wild and prevent wild animals from killing and eating each other, too? I'm all in favor of humane treatment, but at some point you're being ridiculous and that reg definitely crosses a line, at least for me. If you personally prefer to feed only pre-killed rodents to your snakes, cool, I'm on board with that and it would be my preference too if I kept snakes. But I don't think it should be literally illegal to allow your captive animal to engage in its natural, instinctive behavior.
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Aug 2, 2016 18:37
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If you are going to go with the "but it's natural" argument then raising the rodents in a cage and trapping them alone in a glass tank with a snake isn't all that compelling. A lot of awful poo poo happens to things in nature and people aren't dirty hippies for thinking we shouldn't deliberately inflict it upon animals in our care.
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Aug 2, 2016 21:57
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Sure, and like I said, I wouldn't feed live rodents either. I don't think it's justifiable to outright ban it, though. e. I just realized I might be picking a fight in an inappropriate place, this isn't D&D, so I'm sorry. I'm OK with it if most people would disagree with my position.
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Aug 2, 2016 22:14
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Feeding prekilled is of course preferable, but it isn't always possible. Some snakes simply will not eat prekilled.
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Aug 2, 2016 22:28
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I always fed my snakes live (albino Burmese and a ball). The rats were oblivious, I always had to watch, but there was never any chewing or biting by the rats. They would just walk on the coils, not seeming to recognize the predator. As the Burm got too big for rats, I tried other prey items, but that didn't work well. She wouldn't eat even freshly slaughtered chicken from the local farmer, the rabbits were just too hard on me, and the live birds (doves and chickens) were terrified. The hubby wouldn't let me feed her the neighborhood children, so we went back to a couple servings of the biggest rats I could get. Now I just snuggle the stray southern black racers that come into the house periodically and wish I could have a little hog nose...
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Aug 3, 2016 03:55
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Feeding live isn't exactly illegal in the UK if I remember right, but causing 'unnecessary suffering' or sharing recordings of it for the sake of entertainment is, I think? Live feeding is definitely frowned on here which is good because it means most snakes get nothing but prekilled and are less likely to become fussy about it. By the way, hoooowww do I convince my geckos to use their moist hide?? It has sphagnum moss in it but they NEVER use it and instead I spray them when I see they're shedding or give the fat lazy one a bath because sometimes she doesn't bother trying to get the shed off. Would be nice if they'd do it themselves so I don't have to worry when I'm away!
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Aug 3, 2016 05:17
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Prekilled is fine and dandy for little pigs like kingsnakes and such, the problem is more about more specialized feeders. I've only had a couple lizard eaters that would take f/t. As for the humid hide, try to make it more cavelike. If it's not opaque, try making a new one that is. If it's already opaque try putting it in a new area or changing the location of the entrance.
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Aug 3, 2016 05:49
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Re: places to order, don't ever go with micedirect. I've ordered from there before and have had a few cases of really nasty rats and mice, stopped ordering pretty quickly. Some of them have abscesses, have poo poo themselves, or have coats streaked with urine and feces. As someone who has owned both rodents and snakes, I definitely prefer to go with prekilled in comparison to live, but only if the snake actually eats it. If possible try stunning them (flick to the back of the head works well on small mice/rats and lizards) because cornered prey is always more dangerous. That's mostly why I don't like live feeding if I can avoid it - seen too many half eaten ball pythons because rats are vicious as gently caress.
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Aug 3, 2016 22:48
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Big Centipede posted:As for the humid hide, try to make it more cavelike. If it's not opaque, try making a new one that is. If it's already opaque try putting it in a new area or changing the location of the entrance. It's literally a cave hide with moist moss in it, you can't see into it except through the entrance hole. Maybe they're just stupid awkward assholes. I'll try moving it around the viv and see if it's positioning putting them off. They had an opaque sandwich box before and they didn't use that, either 
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Aug 4, 2016 00:10
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dog days are over posted:It's literally a cave hide with moist moss in it, you can't see into it except through the entrance hole. Maybe they're just stupid awkward assholes. I'll try moving it around the viv and see if it's positioning putting them off. They had an opaque sandwich box before and they didn't use that, either Ehh, unless they're having lovely sheds I'd just let them figure it out on their own then.
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Aug 4, 2016 00:16
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evilcat posted:Herp experts, what accessories are going to be essential for a new ball python? Aspen isn't a good substrate for a ball python. It likes to absorb humidity and will then get moldy in the process. Throw it all away and get cypress mulch. It won't soak up all of the humidity and it will resist molding much better, not to mention smelling better. Heat lamps are not necessary, and should only be used if you have trouble maintaining ambient temperatures. If you do need extra heat, use a ceramic heat emitter instead of a visible light bulb. Take note, however, that a CHE or heat bulb will both reduce your humidity. Misting is a terrible way to raise humidity, if you need higher humidity, you should make sure you don't have a completely open top first, and get a larger or additional water bowls.
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Aug 4, 2016 01:36
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EightBit posted:Aspen isn't a good substrate for a ball python. It likes to absorb humidity and will then get moldy in the process. Throw it all away and get cypress mulch. It won't soak up all of the humidity and it will resist molding much better, not to mention smelling better. Heat lamps are not necessary, and should only be used if you have trouble maintaining ambient temperatures. If you do need extra heat, use a ceramic heat emitter instead of a visible light bulb. Take note, however, that a CHE or heat bulb will both reduce your humidity. Misting is a terrible way to raise humidity, if you need higher humidity, you should make sure you don't have a completely open top first, and get a larger or additional water bowls. Thanks. I noticed the problem with some of the aspen remaining damp and shoveled it out and swapped in more as there was no cypress mulch in the store at the time. The aspen is starting to look like it will repeat the same issue, so I was shopping around for some alternate options. I've seen a few vivarium builds using linoleum with heat tape under it and have been considering that for the tank. The misting is definitely inconvenient with how fast the humidity vanishes, even with the heat lamp off and the foil insulation top covering the entire tank. I swapped the bowl from what would have been okay for a baby gecko to a large glazed flowerpot base that is large enough that the snake can fit in now, and a plant that mounts to the back over the bowl to help hold some moisture. Mostly he's super attached to the rock I put in when I saw the shed starting, I debated posting to ask if the results were good or bad but figured it was not quite that interesting, and the snake had no difficulties it seemed. I finally got an actual decent measurement and he's about 3' long, so a proper terrarium is getting pushed up the priority list which will also hopefully reduce the problems with keeping the tank conditions ideal, and give the snake more room to roam and more room for decor. I'm also going to scale him up from the mice the pet store was feeding him and get him something more proper for his size, probably young rats and then I suspect pretty quickly onto weaned rats. I actually moved the heat lamp over the water bowl experimentally to try and get more heat on that side to see if it would help the humidity, but it sadly made no difference. I snagged a cheap humidifier and will just get a herpstat for him so I can tape up the proper heat pad I assembled and hook up the humidifier and not startle him with misting constantly.
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Aug 4, 2016 04:43
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I use No Float Cypress. Ive really only seen it at Walmart. It's like $3.50 or so for a big rear end mulch bag. That bag is enough for me to do complete changes on 4 snakes and my giant skink enclosure. Supposed to be 100% Cypress.
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Aug 4, 2016 06:57
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Cless Alvein posted:I use No Float Cypress. Ive really only seen it at Walmart. It's like $3.50 or so for a big rear end mulch bag. That bag is enough for me to do complete changes on 4 snakes and my giant skink enclosure. Supposed to be 100% Cypress. I'll check on some cypress next time I'm at the pet store just in case, if not I'll have to check the home improvement stores as those are at least much closer than the nearest Walmart. $3.50 is a much more reasonable price than I even paid for the tiny bag of aspen. Thanks for sharing that one.
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Aug 4, 2016 18:43
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Any hardware store or gardening places will probably carry comparable brands. Just get one that say 100% cypress to knock down on chances of it having some sort of possibly toxic wood in it.
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Aug 6, 2016 03:41
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Leopard geckos are the cutest drat things. I didn't realise when I got them how curious and friendly they could be, and now I just love how they rush to come look at me whenever I open their viv. They seem really happy to stare at me while I'm sewing and aren't the least bit shy about trying to scramble onto my hands. I put in a new hide for them yesterday to replace their styrofoam one I can finally get around to finishing now, and they rushed over to check it all out and *mlem* it repeatedly and then both happily fell asleep in it. Success! Looking smug and preferring to doze outside for a while.  The new hide. It's a little smaller than I was anticipating but they seem to be able to get around it just fine, even the patternless tubbyguts out front. The other gecko Schmeckle (yes I know what it means) is fast asleep inside.  The other side of their viv, with a moist hide they refuse to use no matter where I put it apparently, and what was intended to be a cold hide for them but turned into a designated pooping place. Seriously, they poop ONLY in that hide. When I bought it for them I was getting worried that they had stopped pooping but when I looked in that hide I discovered that they decided it was only worth shittin' in. 
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Aug 6, 2016 15:26
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Are you sure it's the geckos? Yoshi looks pretty guilty.
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Aug 6, 2016 16:21
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Anyone know any vendors that sell very small worms? I've been keeping a brown snake (Storeria dekayi) for a few months, and she's doing great, but today I went in and found 10-30 babies. I'd kind of expected that she was gravid, but now I need to find something for these guys to eat. I tried chopping up some of the worms the mother eats, but most didn't seem interested - one did try eating, but I don't think he liked the taste/defense secretions and he dropped it and rubbed his face off. Small phoenix worms were also a no-go; the mother showed absolutely no interest in the larger ones (while hunting down the single worm that I'd had in with them), and I don't think the babies were any different.
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Aug 9, 2016 00:57
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HungryMedusa posted:I do RodentPro some times but while they are cheaper, they have had some controversy with how healthy their rats are. I haven't had any bad experiences personally but I have heard stories. What are some of the horror stories with em? I've flip flopped between then and Big Cheese depending on who has what in stock when I'm ordering and I can't really think of any problems I've seen with my mice,rats, or chicks. I looked into Layne and holy crap their prices are double and shipping is almost $50 by itself vs Pro and Big Cheese doing flat rate $29 shipping now. Oh and sorry about not getting video of buttercup eating the fruit. I keep meaning to. I've bought like 8 pints of strawberries since someone asked but somehow I end up eating them all. I'm fairly sure at this point he spends more time in my bed than his enclosure. Mostly just goes in there to drink,eat and poo, but beyond that prefers to be under my pillows. He occasionally flops off the bed to explore and for the life of me I have no idea how, he eventually climbs back into the bed to nap under pillows again. Will occasionally wake up me in the middle of the night as he snuggles up with me to warm up a bit. Blue Tongued Skinks are awesome and everybody should own one. Cless Alvein fucked around with this message at 10:25 on Aug 9, 2016 |
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Aug 9, 2016 10:20
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