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Holy poo poo, Alphinaud finally stopped dressing like a stripper, I've been waiting for this day. Thank you Tataru.
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Aug 2, 2016 22:19
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LITERALLY MY FETISH posted:No? It really doesn't have much to do with you having done the MSQ first? And even if it was, that's a really bad reason for making new players level 2 classes because they want to play one of them. Which is also why I hate cross class in all its forms, but that's another issue. It does, the job quests are predicated on MSQ side-quest-like stuff. For the reason that makes the DRK class quests awesome.
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Aug 2, 2016 22:20
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Captain Oblivious posted:Yup. Chocobos are weird bad old spaghetti code that have been filed away as "more trouble than they're worth to gently caress with". It sucks because while it's something that needs to be fixed there are some things that are ultimately not actually worth the manpower to fix or isolate and replace. hobbesmaster posted:Whatever dark magic they performed to get this to run on the PS3 is probably legitimately holding them back on a lot of stuff that involves the client. Probably not as much as the unholy monstrosity that is the 1.0 codebase this is built upon since it's the source of a lot of issues (like the Chocobo ones, iirc). Hopefully they discontinue PS3 support in 4.0 but there's probably far too many PS3-only users for them to consider it still.
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Aug 2, 2016 22:23
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LITERALLY MY FETISH posted:No? It really doesn't have much to do with you having done the MSQ first? And even if it was, that's a really bad reason for making new players level 2 classes because they want to play one of them. Which is also why I hate cross class in all its forms, but that's another issue. The DRK storyline absolutely cannot happen without the events of the main scenario up to Ishgard having happened first. You couldn't even do it by changing the occasional line like how Estinien calls you the Azure Dragoon if you're done DRG to 50 but doesn't if you haven't, the very premise of the story wouldn't work without it. ActionZero fucked around with this message at 22:36 on Aug 2, 2016 |
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Aug 2, 2016 22:33
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Davoren posted:Holy poo poo, Alphinaud finally stopped dressing like a stripper, I've been waiting for this day. Thank you Tataru. Yeah after all the lampshading about their loving clothes in ARR it was nice to see the lampshade just taken off
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Aug 2, 2016 22:43
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Also I'm now reminded that I need to go back to the DRK quest journal and re-read the text and watch the cutscenes one of these days I know the DRK journal text is, uh, enlightening, but I didn't realize that until the end so I kinda wanna review it all in context
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Aug 2, 2016 22:44
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The biggest benefit of having jobs exist from the start is that you wouldn't have to cross-class just to unlock them. But on that same note, I feel like the current cross-class abilities system is bad and should be replaced with the ability to slot in a subjob. Like, if I really enjoy playing as a Paladin, but also kind of like playing as a Ninja, I should be able to carry some of my experience with one over to the other. I'm not asking to be a perfect hybrid of both, obviously, but getting short list of Ninja's abilities (Shade Shift, the Kiss skills, Goad) would be really nice. It'd also add some variety to the kinds of builds people could run, instead of rooting them squarely in their intended role. Maybe throw a subjob-dependent stat boost in, so that slotting in jobs between DoW and DoM isn't worthless. With a bit of careful planning, you could still ensure that each job has a particular niche they excel in, especially since their traits would make them naturally better at the thing they're supposed to do than any other job using their short list would be.
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Aug 2, 2016 22:46
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i am sorry but that i think that idea is very bad. don't get me wrong, i wish there was SOME way to diversify your builds so i'm not literally the same as every warrior on the server (esp since the vit/str changes), but i don't think that's it.
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Aug 2, 2016 22:57
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CeallaSo posted:The biggest benefit of having jobs exist from the start is that you wouldn't have to cross-class just to unlock them. But on that same note, I feel like the current cross-class abilities system is bad and should be replaced with the ability to slot in a subjob. It's a little too late to make this work like ff11 or one of the older traditional titles like ff5. That ship has sailed, pretty much. Subjobs are a neat way to differentiate characters but you're left with a nightmare of balance and/or the illusion of choice.
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Aug 2, 2016 23:05
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You know if they did anything like that there would be an optimal subjob to pick and anyone who picks the wrong one will be 20% less effective than the people who picked the right one.
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Aug 2, 2016 23:19
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mmos with more resources on hand than ffxiv have attempted to tackle branching builds/specs, and they have always failed. one build emerges as obviously superior, and then the system ends up existing only as a way to gently caress over new players that don't exhaustively research their skill tree decisions before putting a single minute into the game. it just doesn't work
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Aug 2, 2016 23:22
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DolphinCop posted:mmos with more resources on hand than ffxiv have attempted to tackle branching builds/specs, and they have always failed. one build emerges as obviously superior, and then the system ends up existing only as a way to gently caress over new players that don't exhaustively research their skill tree decisions before putting a single minute into the game. it just doesn't work Can I empty quote this? It never works. It has never worked. It never will work. It's better to have Jobs that have a thing that they do well with no real choice and freedom to switch between any Job than a million false choices.
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Aug 2, 2016 23:30
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Is it not possible to have both? I mean really, what I'm suggesting is barely any different than what we have now, except that rather than picking 5 skills individually, you get a package of skills.
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Aug 2, 2016 23:46
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Ciaphas posted:Yeah after all the lampshading about their loving clothes in ARR it was nice to see the lampshade just taken off My favourite was during the MSQ in Coerthas in the leadup to Garuda where Alphinaud is standing around in Whitebrim complaining about not being dressed for the weather.
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Aug 2, 2016 23:48
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Captain Oblivious posted:Can I empty quote this? It never works. It has never worked. It never will work.  CeallaSo posted:Is it not possible to have both? I mean really, what I'm suggesting is barely any different than what we have now, except that rather than picking 5 skills individually, you get a package of skills. You mean, exactly the thing arcanist split does? Getting more than one "spec" out of a single class by giving 2 different skill packages?
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Aug 2, 2016 23:49
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CeallaSo posted:Is it not possible to have both? I mean really, what I'm suggesting is barely any different than what we have now, except that rather than picking 5 skills individually, you get a package of skills. All evidence suggests that yes it is impossible. WoW has tried for nearly 15 years. Talent trees STILL have the exact same "there is one correct build either overall or on a per fight basis and you are expected to use it" problem. The choice, it is an illusion. Summoner/Scholar was a train wreck of balance for almost all of ARR and that's as close as we come to that kind of thing. Hell it's still kind of a problem insofar as Scholar is basically mandatory in any content that matters and always has been.
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Aug 3, 2016 00:02
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It's one of those things that sounds either easy or good on paper, and it's really neither. A big part of the problem is that when you're talking about multiplayer balance, social pressures can make even fairly harmless decisions painful (you're 5% beneath optimal? AWAY WITH YOU FILTHY TRASH), and when you're talking about actual difficult or extremely difficult content, those choices matter even more if the fight was tuned to the bleeding edge. I'd legitimately be more excited by an mmo offering alternate animations and effects for existing skillsets than adding varying functionality these days  (not least because my patience for min/maxing has waned over the years to the point where I just consider it impediment to my enjoyment of whatever content I'm trying to experience - I don't want to read more badly written wiki guides on gearing up)
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Aug 3, 2016 00:12
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Truga posted:You mean, exactly the thing arcanist split does? Getting more than one "spec" out of a single class by giving 2 different skill packages? Not really, no. The arcanist-to-scholar split changes the inherent role of the class, turning it from a DPS to a Healer. It also basically forces you to choose whether you want to use Summoner or Scholar, since excelling in one cuts into your effectiveness in the other. In this case, the job itself would still fulfill the same function, and do so with the same proficiency; however, it would also be able to do something extra, depending on what your current subjob is. Again, this is basically what the cross-class abilities do now. A scholar with Swiftcast, Cleric Stance, Blizzard 2, Stoneskin and Protect is still a scholar, but also it has other things it can do. The tradeoff would be gaining access to a wider array of abilities from whatever job you wanted, but at the cost of only being able to take them from one at a time. So that same scholar can choose to sub either black mage (getting Fire, Ice, Surecast, Sleep, Swiftcast, Manaward) or white mage (getting Cure, Aero, Cleric Stance, Protect, Repose, Stoneskin). Or they could sub in ninja (getting Shade Shift, Kiss of the Wasp, Mutilate, Goad, Hide, Kiss of the Viper) instead. Each of those comes with its own strengths and shortcomings, but none of them is necessarily a bad choice. Players might decide among themselves that one sub is definitely the best one for supporting what that primary does ("SCH sub BLM for Swiftcast, absolute must") but that doesn't invalidate other choices or even mean they're right?
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Aug 3, 2016 00:23
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Captain Oblivious posted:All evidence suggests that yes it is impossible. WoW has tried for nearly 15 years. Talent trees STILL have the exact same "there is one correct build either overall or on a per fight basis and you are expected to use it" problem. The choice, it is an illusion. There is literally only two cases where it works and people like one or the other, not both: Case 1: The choice is an illusion and it is blatantly an illusion, difficulty is tuned to where there is an acceptable variance in choices, playerbase ostracizes everything that isn't the best (or complains over what is the best.) Case 2: The choice is real and full of opportunities, difficulty is tuned to the lowest common denominator, the playerbase complains that everything is too easy because it is because it has to be. There's no way to both balance a bunch of choices and to have a suitably high difficulty in an MMO environment.
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Aug 3, 2016 00:24
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CeallaSo posted:Not really, no. The arcanist-to-scholar split changes the inherent role of the class, turning it from a DPS to a Healer. It also basically forces you to choose whether you want to use Summoner or Scholar, since excelling in one cuts into your effectiveness in the other. In this case, the job itself would still fulfill the same function, and do so with the same proficiency; however, it would also be able to do something extra, depending on what your current subjob is.
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Aug 3, 2016 00:28
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If we're indulging the bad idea with further thought, its a little dramatic to say that not having swiftcast would be the end of scholar as a job. The cross class system is dumb and pretty janky but at least it functions, though.
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Aug 3, 2016 00:42
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Specs might be an illusory choice, but sometimes the illusion feels good. And having no choices at all is boring.
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Aug 3, 2016 01:11
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I really want FFXIV to make it work, but it has to start with each job completely capable of doing their job in and of itself without any external skills. That'd mean each tank would need their own taunt, each caster would need their own Swiftcast, each DPS would need their own Raging Strikes. And then any crossclass would be a bolt-on package afterwards.
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Aug 3, 2016 01:17
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Give me frivolous choices that do little and make less sense. WAR Spec: Golfer - Hold your axe the other direction and automatically do /lookout after every Fell Cleave.
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Aug 3, 2016 01:27
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Cross-classing does give some illusion of choice, but there are definitely skills that are far more optimal than others, as noted above. Sometimes it does feel like after you've slotted in the really good stuff it's like, "uhhhhh... Feint, I guess?"
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Aug 3, 2016 01:27
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Leofish posted:Cross-classing does give some illusion of choice, but there are definitely skills that are far more optimal than others, as noted above. Black Mage has Raging Strikes, Quelling Strikes, and then the other three are just whatever. I have Prospect and Truth of Mountains.
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Aug 3, 2016 01:30
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Potato Jones posted:Give me frivolous choices that do little and make less sense. when you reach level 50 dragoon, you are immediately required to pick a color for your chaos thrust particle effect between blue, red, and green. this choice can never be modified, so choose wisely!
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Aug 3, 2016 01:30
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DolphinCop posted:when you reach level 50 dragoon, you are immediately required to pick a color for your chaos thrust particle effect between blue, red, and green. this choice can never be modified, so choose wisely! SCHs have to decide on a permanent glamour effect for Eos and Selene. (I'm surprised they haven't let us play pretty dress-up on our summons and turrets yet.)
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Aug 3, 2016 01:48
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Zero The Hero posted:Caveat: I'd start the beastmen quests. They're not as rewarding as the others, but they're daily quests, so you may as well get started now. One of them is for crafting, too, so you should probably put at least that much effort into crafting. Unless you just want to skip the beastmen quests altogether - all you really miss out on is a few minions and mounts and some easy level 4 materia. Oh yeah, I completely neglected those, so I forgot. The beast tribes are something to do if you're super bored. I'd put the rest of that stuff first though. victrix posted:I'd legitimately be more excited by an mmo offering alternate animations This is something I'd like though. The little flip and Naruto run is part of why I started with Thief/Ninja.
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Aug 3, 2016 02:04
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Panic! at Nabisco posted:Your example would make Scholar completely worthless as a job because it would have to choose between Cleric Stance and Swiftcast. Not quite. The problem with his example isn't that Scholar would become worthless but rather that all of the non-Cleric Stance choices would quickly be determined to be suboptimal and worthless. Illusion of choice rides once more. Seriously folks just stop pining for what cannot be. It does not work. It will never work.
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Aug 3, 2016 02:43
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Captain Oblivious posted:Not quite. The problem with his example isn't that Scholar would become worthless but rather that all of the non-Cleric Stance choices would quickly be determined to be suboptimal and worthless. Illusion of choice rides once more. It works in a single player environment. The problem is that the effort scales exponentially with however many players you add (because not only do you have to account for skill choice, but also the synergies of those choices  )
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Aug 3, 2016 03:23
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Hamsterlady posted:You know if they did anything like that there would be an optimal subjob to pick and anyone who picks the wrong one will be 20% less effective than the people who picked the right one. The people who would tend to be already.
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Aug 3, 2016 03:26
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EponymousMrYar posted:It works in a single player environment. The problem is that the effort scales exponentially with however many players you add (because not only do you have to account for skill choice, but also the synergies of those choices Single player environments Like Emerald Dragon? Where the LP updates at MrYar 
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Aug 3, 2016 03:28
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If a concept is worthwhile enough to be a talent tree, then it is worthwhile enough to just be a full class instead, receiving the proper support it needs to excel in whatever its chosen methodology is. I could totally get behind cosmetic talent trees though, that would be rad. It would let you have that spark of individuality while not hurting anything, no matter what combination you chose. ... Well, I guess you could pick a combination so atrocious or obnoxious to watch in action that it offends everyone you group with. But that's its own kind of rewarding I suppose.
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Aug 3, 2016 03:51
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Obligatum VII posted:If a concept is worthwhile enough to be a talent tree, then it is worthwhile enough to just be a full class instead, receiving the proper support it needs to excel in whatever its chosen methodology is.
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Aug 3, 2016 04:16
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is there a good guide on setting up ACT and the rainbowmage overlay? I would love an ingame parser but I'm fuckin' clueless and what I can find is a year+ out of date
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Aug 3, 2016 04:27
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Unlike most other MMOs, Final Fantasy XIV lets you freely and relatively easily change class. This lets you play a variety of different playstyles and mechanics when you feel like it. If you want to try a different healer build stop playing the current healer and switch to a different one. Trying to implement a class customisation mechanic into a system that does not limit or tie you to a single class seems less wise of an investment than just creating new classes and play styles. What the cross class skills do more than allow for customisation is encourage players to try out different classes and to try their different experiences, which is why all the jobs from ARR require you to play through the starting levels of another class to unlock. You get many of the crass class skills (not necessarily the most desired or useful ones however) in those first 15 levels as well.
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Aug 3, 2016 04:55
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Ignoring this awful derail does a kind goon have a pic of mistbeard so i can glamor like him?
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Aug 3, 2016 05:26
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Captain Oblivious posted:Single player environments LIIIIIIIIIIIIIIFE and job hunt. I have a bit more of the game to finish recording then I just have to find time to write up all the updates. Obligatum VII posted:If a concept is worthwhile enough to be a talent tree, then it is worthwhile enough to just be a full class instead, receiving the proper support it needs to excel in whatever its chosen methodology is. Cosmetic customization/upgrades usually fall into the problem of the 'high effort, little reward' conundrum. They're still pretty cool though.
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Aug 3, 2016 05:52
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Ever since 3.35, my client has been crashing whenever I'm in a crowded area. Has anyone else experienced similar problems?
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Aug 3, 2016 06:04
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