Magic the Gathering Appreciation Station

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Rogue0071: Dec 8, 2009; Grey Hunter's next target.

Serotonin posted:

I pulled a Summary Dismissal yesterday and being a noob I'm sort of lost on how to use it.

http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=414370

It seems like a counter spell that also affects cards triggered and paid for abilities. Have I got this right?

Its main use in standard is probably going to be for cleanly countering eldrazi with on-cast triggers like World Breaker, Emrakul, or Ulamog while also stopping their triggers. It also can be used in a pinch as just a stifle effect or counterspell. When it resolves it exiles all spells on the stack (effectively countering them) and counters any abilities on the stack.

Rogue0071 fucked around with this message at 08:27 on Aug 3, 2016

# ? Aug 3, 2016 08:25

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# ? Jun 8, 2024 00:15

Jen X: Sep 29, 2014; To bring light to the darkness, whether that darkness be ignorance, injustice, apathy, or stagnation.

OgreNoah posted:

I haven't posted in here in a while, but I wanted to share the altered Maze of Ith I just finished, because it took forever and looks pretty awesome, I think.

This is really great.

Serotonin posted:

I pulled a Summary Dismissal yesterday and being a noob I'm sort of lost on how to use it.

http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=414370

It seems like a counter spell that also affects cards triggered and paid for abilities. Have I got this right?

Close. Do you get the basic idea of the stack? (It's really not as complicated as it sounds: the last thing done resolves first, and so on.) Basically, this card wipes the stack under it after it resolves. The normal use will be in response to someone casting a guy that does something when cast, like ulamog, who lets you exile stuff on cast. You can counter that exile ability and exile ulamog. Another use is to get rid of uncounterable spells (spells that literally say "cannot be countered") or spells with hexproof (which is kind the same thing in almost every case). I don't know if that latter type of spell even exists in current magic, but anyway, because it just says "get rid of everything", it doesn't technically counter or target the spell.

The other thing is that it wipes the entire stack. So, let's give an example. Say you're playing against a deck with merfolk looter (which says tap: draw a card, then discard a card) in play, and you have your own as well. They cast a creature, and in response you activate your looter. In response to that, they activate their looter. So the stack is currently: 1. creature 2. your looter 3. their looter. Now, you don't actually need to loot, but you wanted to bait your opponent into reacting. You cast summary dismissal, and you remove that creature from the stack entirely, but you also prevent both loots from happening. There are also cases where your opponent holds priority and does stuff, which let you get a 2 for 1, but the point is that this can theoretically do much more than just counter one spell.

# ? Aug 3, 2016 09:04

Serotonin: Jul 14, 2001; The history of all hitherto existing society is the history of *blank*

I'm trying to get my head round the stack idea. Your explanations make a lot of sense though. Thanks

# ? Aug 3, 2016 09:29

Serperoth: Feb 21, 2013

Serotonin posted:

I'm trying to get my head round the stack idea. Your explanations make a lot of sense though. Thanks

Think of it like a stack of plates. Every new spell or ability* is a plate added to the top of it. Then when nobody adds a plate, the top plate gets picked up and used (resolves).

*yeah there are exceptions, this is a broad strokes example

Edit: Imagine four spells or abilities at the edge of a cliff...

# ? Aug 3, 2016 11:27

Wurzag: Jun 3, 2007; Bad Moons, Bad Moons, wot ya gonna do?

Serperoth posted:

Imagine four spells or abilities at the edge of a cliff...

Woah

# ? Aug 3, 2016 12:17

Serotonin: Jul 14, 2001; The history of all hitherto existing society is the history of *blank*

I don't ever remember the stack being a thing when I used to play back in pre 1998 or so. Was it about or were we playing Magic wrong then?

# ? Aug 3, 2016 12:29

Serperoth: Feb 21, 2013

Serotonin posted:

I don't ever remember the stack being a thing when I used to play back in pre 1998 or so. Was it about or were we playing Magic wrong then?

The Stack was introduced in Sixth Edition, which came out in 1999, so it wasn't a thing back then.

# ? Aug 3, 2016 12:33

Angry Grimace: Jul 29, 2010; ACTUALLY IT IS VERY GOOD THAT THE SHOW IS BAD AND ANYONE WHO DOESN'T REALIZE WHY THAT'S GOOD IS AN IDIOT. JUST ENJOY THE BAD SHOW INSTEAD OF THINKING.

Serotonin posted:

I don't ever remember the stack being a thing when I used to play back in pre 1998 or so. Was it about or were we playing Magic wrong then?

It's best not to try and think about the batch.

# ? Aug 3, 2016 13:47

Irony Be My Shield: Jul 29, 2012

For reference this is how it used to work:

# ? Aug 3, 2016 14:09

mandatory lesbian: Dec 18, 2012

did anyone look at that and actually go "oh yeah now it's so clear" back in 1998 or whenever

# ? Aug 3, 2016 14:12

Skyl3lazer: Aug 27, 2007; [Dooting Stealthily]

mandatory lesbian posted:

did anyone look at that and actually go "oh yeah now it's so clear" back in 1998 or whenever

I mean, it was much more intuitive than that chart would have you believe. Basically you have the "Active Player" being the person whose turn it is, and the opponent can only react to something the AP does. You can't react to playing lands, or to interrupts. When a bunch of back and forth happened, it functioned mostly like the stack except that people didnt get priority on the way down, so you couldnt let a counterspell resolve and go to the GY, then add another counterspell. Also instead of main, combat, main, you just had a "main phase" that at some point you attacked during.

# ? Aug 3, 2016 14:19

Chill la Chill: Jul 2, 2007; Don't lose your gay

BJPaskoff posted:

That's what usually happens for these team things. A group of three friends will want to go, then one will back out close enough to the last minute that they won't be able to find a replacement, and no one will go. I wouldn't ever go to a team event because of the stress of relying on two other Magic players to not gently caress up the planning.

This is what always happened and it was funny since the grinder people would get mad their other friend wouldn't go and would beg the (who they would consider) best players at the store to go. I never liked them because you had a 1/3rd chance in encountering the huge grognard of the group. There's always one in the team. The last sealed one in DC made me swear off them because my friends and I went on friday. I don't give a gently caress if you're using it to test for saturday but it's a regular REL event and if you have to make judge calls for the equivalence of "staring at someone passes priority" then I'm not playing anymore.

# ? Aug 3, 2016 14:21

mandatory lesbian: Dec 18, 2012

Skyl3lazer posted:

I mean, it was much more intuitive than that chart would have you believe. Basically you have the "Active Player" being the person whose turn it is, and the opponent can only react to something the AP does. You can't react to playing lands, or to interrupts. When a bunch of back and forth happened, it functioned mostly like the stack except that people didnt get priority on the way down, so you couldnt let a counterspell resolve and go to the GY, then add another counterspell. Also instead of main, combat, main, you just had a "main phase" that at some point you attacked during.

sounds a lot like chains in yugioh

# ? Aug 3, 2016 14:28

Sickening: Jul 16, 2007; Black summer was the best summer.

Damage on the stack was a dumb thing.

# ? Aug 3, 2016 14:32

Madmarker: Jan 7, 2007

Sickening posted:

Damage on the stack was a dumb thing.

Disagree.

Now I am not saying that removing combat damage from using the stack was a bad move. It was unquestionably correct, despite my sour grapes about it at the time. However damage on the stack did allow for very satisfying plays especially with cards like Benevolent Bodyguard and Mog Fanatic that you really can't get anymore.

# ? Aug 3, 2016 14:38

GonSmithe: Apr 25, 2010; Perhaps it's in the nature of television. Just waves in space.

Madmarker posted:

Disagree.

Now I am not saying that removing combat damage from using the stack was a bad move. It was unquestionably correct, despite my sour grapes about it at the time. However damage on the stack did allow for very satisfying plays especially with cards like Benevolent Bodyguard and Mog Fanatic that you really can't get anymore.

It also didn't make any sense and pigeonhole'd a lot of design

# ? Aug 3, 2016 15:16

hey mom its 420: May 12, 2007

It was bad because there was only really ever one correct choice, provided you knew the trick.

# ? Aug 3, 2016 15:18

Jabor: Jul 16, 2010; #1 Loser at SpaceChem

Getting rid of damage on the stack means that Wizards gets to print stronger creatures that sacrifice themselves. When damage on the stack was around, the best thing they could print was something like Sakura-Tribe Elder, because anything stronger than that would just be way too much of a value beating. Nowadays, you can't get both the effect and the combat damage, so Wizards is allowed to print better self-sacrificing creatures like

# ? Aug 3, 2016 15:26

Jabor: Jul 16, 2010; #1 Loser at SpaceChem

Similarly anything more powerful than Mogg Fanatic would have been way too good at shutting down green creatures before, but now red can get cool and powerful dudes like

# ? Aug 3, 2016 15:27

Yawgmoth: Sep 10, 2003; This post is cursed!

GonSmithe posted:

It also didn't make any sense and pigeonhole'd a lot of design

Not being able to split my damage among blockers also pigeonholes design and ordering blockers still causes people to go "okay so how does this work again?"

Also how does "my reaction time does not negate the momentum of attack" not make sense, it's basic physics.

# ? Aug 3, 2016 15:31

Retromancer: Aug 21, 2007; Every time I see Goatse, I think of Maureen. That's the last thing I saw. Before I blacked out. The sight of that man's anus.

Jabor posted:

Getting rid of damage on the stack means that Wizards gets to print stronger creatures that sacrifice themselves. When damage on the stack was around, the best thing they could print was something like Sakura-Tribe Elder, because anything stronger than that would just be way too much of a value beating. Nowadays, you can't get both the effect and the combat damage, so Wizards is allowed to print better self-sacrificing creatures like

selfless spirit?

# ? Aug 3, 2016 15:53

whydirt: Apr 18, 2001; Gaz Posting Brigade

Also they just replaced sac-for-effect creatures with more ETB and death triggers.

# ? Aug 3, 2016 16:02

Elyv: Jun 14, 2013

Magic Story: We go back to Conspiracy plane and meet our new planeswalker/presumably Brago assassin, Kaya. She's a ~~ghostbuster~~ assassin who only kills ghosts. She gets hired by some random douchey noble to kill the spirit of his mother inhabiting a house he's remodeling and goes to kill the ghost, but figures out that he killed her to get her house, so she brings him to meet his mother's ghost and she kills him. That's it.

Here's a picture of our new character:

# ? Aug 3, 2016 16:07

suicidesteve: Jan 4, 2006; "Life is a maze. This is one of its dead ends.

Elyv posted:

Here's a picture of our new character:

Oh boy, another woman ghostbuster. I can't wait to see the response to this. :v:

Also does she kill the guy or does the Ghost Mom?

# ? Aug 3, 2016 16:14

Shadow225: Jan 2, 2007

Looks like a Shadowrun character.

Thanks for posting the lore updates. I'm curious, but not curious enough to read myself. You're a mensch.

# ? Aug 3, 2016 16:16

BizarroAzrael: Apr 6, 2006; "That must weigh heavily on your soul. Let me purge it for you."

I'm unclear on Sorin's status, is he just trapped or definitely dead?

# ? Aug 3, 2016 16:36

mcmagic: Jul 1, 2004; If you see this avatar while scrolling the succ zone, you have been visited by the mcmagic of shitty lib takes! Good luck and prosperity will come to you, but only if you reply "shut the fuck up mcmagic" to this post!

Sickening posted:

Damage on the stack was a dumb thing.

Yes. It was too confusing for new players and resulted in a lot of feel bads.

# ? Aug 3, 2016 16:38

GonSmithe: Apr 25, 2010; Perhaps it's in the nature of television. Just waves in space.

Yawgmoth posted:

Not being able to split my damage among blockers also pigeonholes design and ordering blockers still causes people to go "okay so how does this work again?"

Also how does "my reaction time does not negate the momentum of attack" not make sense, it's basic physics.

It makes no sense that something no longer on the field is doing damage to something that is.

# ? Aug 3, 2016 16:42

Elyv: Jun 14, 2013

suicidesteve posted:

Oh boy, another woman ghostbuster. I can't wait to see the response to this.

Also does she kill the guy or does the Ghost Mom?

Ghost mom.

BizarroAzrael posted:

I'm unclear on Sorin's status, is he just trapped or definitely dead?

Trapped and in constant pain.

# ? Aug 3, 2016 16:46

Count Bleck: Apr 5, 2010; DISPEL MAGIC!

Elyv posted:

Trapped and in constant pain.

Good.

# ? Aug 3, 2016 16:47

ShaneB: Oct 22, 2002

I do appreciate WOTC's dedication to making women/non-white people a part of the game and not done up as some kind of parody. A black woman with natural hair as a hopefully cool planeswalker - into it.

# ? Aug 3, 2016 16:52

suicidesteve: Jan 4, 2006; "Life is a maze. This is one of its dead ends.

GonSmithe posted:

It makes no sense that something no longer on the field is doing damage to something that is.

Izzet Staticaster still does damage even if you kill it in response to using it.

# ? Aug 3, 2016 16:52

ShaneB: Oct 22, 2002

suicidesteve posted:

Izzet Staticaster still does damage even if you kill it in response to using it.

I'm still having nightmares from when my grixis delver opponent dropped this against me while I was on infect.

GonSmithe posted:

It makes no sense that something no longer on the field is doing damage to something that is.

The usual metaphor is "when a person throws a grenade at you, and you shoot the person who threw the grenade, the grenade is still going to hurt"

# ? Aug 3, 2016 16:55

Yawgmoth: Sep 10, 2003; This post is cursed!

GonSmithe posted:

It makes no sense that something no longer on the field is doing damage to something that is.

You're one of those guys who thought that you could stop someone from killing your guy with a prodigal pyromancer by killing it in response to the tap effect and then got real mad when it didn't work out that way, weren't you.

# ? Aug 3, 2016 17:01

Evil Badman: Aug 19, 2006; Skills include:
EIGHT-FOOT VERTICAL LEAP

Elyv posted:

Magic Story: We go back to Conspiracy plane and meet our new planeswalker/presumably Brago assassin, Kaya. She's a ~~ghostbuster~~ assassin who only kills ghosts. She gets hired by some random douchey noble to kill the spirit of his mother inhabiting a house he's remodeling and goes to kill the ghost, but figures out that he killed her to get her house, so she brings him to meet his mother's ghost and she kills him. That's it.

Here's a picture of our new character:

She absolutely killed Brago:

https://twitter.com/wizards_magic/status/702170303217197057

# ? Aug 3, 2016 17:09

Snacksmaniac: Jan 12, 2008

Elyv posted:

Trapped and in constant pain.

Same here.

# ? Aug 3, 2016 17:26

sit on my Facebook: Jun 20, 2007; ASS GAS OR GRASS
No One Rides for FREE
In the Trumplord Holy Land

Just played a game with my roommate, got a Liliana, TLH emblem and a Brisela on the field. Lost the game. CoCo is a fun and fair magic card.

This has been my story, thanks for listening

# ? Aug 3, 2016 17:40

Thisuck: Apr 29, 2012; Spoilers; Pillbug

stinkles1112 posted:

Just played a game with my roommate, got a Liliana, TLH emblem and a Brisela on the field. Lost the game. CoCo is a fun and fair magic card.

This has been my story, thanks for listening

How does that even happen, don't you just get enough zambos to overwhelm him?

# ? Aug 3, 2016 18:31

Madmarker: Jan 7, 2007

Thisuck posted:

How does that even happen, don't you just get enough zambos to overwhelm him?

If you have no Zombies, than you get two Zombies. I am assuming CoCo into reflector mage + something when he had no other zombies out and the coco player had 1 or 2 other threats out already.

# ? Aug 3, 2016 18:36

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# ? Jun 8, 2024 00:15

mandatory lesbian: Dec 18, 2012

stinkles1112 posted:

Just played a game with my roommate, got a Liliana, TLH emblem and a Brisela on the field. Lost the game. CoCo is a fun and fair magic card.

This has been my story, thanks for listening

brisela is a super cool card that just can't do anything in the current standard bc every bant player has reflector in the top 6 everytime

# ? Aug 3, 2016 19:09

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