terrible programmers: my god, it's full of chars

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Serious Hardware/Software Crap > YOSPOS > terrible programmers: my god, it's full of chars

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Asymmetrikon: Oct 30, 2009; I believe you're a big dork!

Shaggar posted:

groovy would definitely be better than python. plus you could write a little webapp to run the groovy scripts for them so they don't need an ide or anything to start.

lol, expecting professors to write code that actually does something

# ? Aug 3, 2016 17:04

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# ? May 24, 2024 02:42

Valeyard: Mar 30, 2012; Grimey Drawer

Shaggar posted:

groovy would definitely be better than python. plus you could write a little webapp to run the groovy scripts for them so they don't need an ide or anything to start.

Python ftw

# ? Aug 3, 2016 17:06

DONT THREAD ON ME: Oct 1, 2002; by Nyc_Tattoo; Floss Finder

LeftistMuslimObama posted:

its not that interesting. i lifted weights a lot in college (lol, trying to repress my gender identity) and so did the department chair. he super didnt like me because hed say blatantly wrong stuff and i would raise my hand and politely go "i understood <x> to be the case instead, was i mistaken?" and he was the type to take that as an assault on his manhood or some poo poo.

anyway, he was in the weightroom at the same time as me and he was doing some bench press. now, you need to have a clear picture of this guy to really understand him. first of all, he's a geologist and not a computer scientist. somehow he was the cs chair anyway, maybe because no one else on faculty knew how to program? his gym attire, every single day, was a pair of classic zubaz pants, a bum equipment sweatshirt with the sides/sleeves cut out, a lot of body hair, a weight belt (that he wore at all times despite never squatting or deadlifting as far as i saw), and a gold chain. hed sometimes wear a sweatband on his head too. serious soupstrainer mustache situation.

so, this guy gets down on the bench and has like maybe 150 on there. he unracks the weight in this terrifying manner that actually shakes the bench a bit so that a leg of it popped up and made a thud as it relanded. he then proceeds to do like 20 speedreps with this bar, his whole body shaking throughout. at this point im just watching with mild amusement between deadlift sets. then he gets up and loads the bar with 3 plates per side. after watching his previous production, its clear to me that he is in no way strong enough to bench 315 pounds. i call over "hey, you need a spot?". he just glares at me, the way a little boy might glare at his mom if she asks if someone hurt his feelings. he yells out loudly "*HHHHHAAAAAAAH*", clapping his hands together as hard as he can, practically flings himself onto the bench, does this terrifying unrack motion again, and promptly gets stuck under the bar.

its not in imminent danger of killing him yet, so i watch for a couple seconds just wondering if hes doing some silly pause reps type thing. but when it starts to curl out of his fingers, rolling toward his neck, i drop my barbell and run over and pull it off him back onto the rack. just as i was looking up to see if he's ok he yells "gently caress you" and takes a swing at me. i dont know why he did that, literally the week before he'd attended a local amature mma event which i literally competed on and saw him in the crowd at. like, he should know im young and strong and take punches to the face for a hobby. anyway, i duck it, throw a left hook to his body and come up with a right upper cut tyson style, which puts him on his rear end. the gym attendant is watching us at this point so he just kinds of sputters in an incoherent, spittly purple rage and storms out of the gym. the thing is, he started this poo poo unprovoked so he knows he cant press charges, but i was struggling with some of the math stuff in cs and he had just enough of a case to kick me out of the program for academic reasons.

jokes on him though because i graduated, got a better cs education at a better school, grew some sweet tits, and make more than he does to chair his little department where he constantly espouses java+opengl as the way forward in immersive 3d content.

you're my terrible programmer thread best new poster of the year

# ? Aug 3, 2016 17:37

FamDav: Mar 29, 2008

nah she was rookie of the year last year. now she's looking for league mvp

EDIT: gently caress my partriarchy

FamDav fucked around with this message at 21:10 on Aug 3, 2016

# ? Aug 3, 2016 18:02

Soricidus: Oct 21, 2010; freedom-hating statist shill

she iirc

# ? Aug 3, 2016 18:17

gonadic io: Feb 16, 2011; >>=

Soricidus posted:

she iirc

yes

# ? Aug 3, 2016 18:24

The MUMPSorceress: Jan 6, 2012; ^SHTPSTS; Gary’s Answer

gonadic io posted:

yes

# ? Aug 3, 2016 18:32

CPColin: Sep 9, 2003; Big ol' smile.

Soricidus posted:

she iirc

iirc or if I read the post being talked about

# ? Aug 3, 2016 18:36

Sapozhnik: Jan 2, 2005; Nap Ghost

good langs for pedagogical purposes:

python 3
c (99? at that level it doesn't really matter)
risc-v asm (basically just mips without the branch delay slots, and about as likely to be used in practice in tyool 2016 as mips)

bad langs for pedagogical purposes:

java
ruby

horrible langs for pedagogical purposes:

c++
php

# ? Aug 3, 2016 18:38

qntm: Jun 17, 2009

I can let the championing of Java slide but Groovy is one of the worst programming languages I've ever used

# ? Aug 3, 2016 18:41

The MUMPSorceress: Jan 6, 2012; ^SHTPSTS; Gary’s Answer

Mr Dog posted:

good langs for pedagogical purposes:

python 3
c (99? at that level it doesn't really matter)
risc-v asm (basically just mips without the branch delay slots, and about as likely to be used in practice in tyool 2016 as mips)

bad langs for pedagogical purposes:

java
ruby

horrible langs for pedagogical purposes:

c++
php

ya, using c++ for teaching cs would be a bit like using chuck tingle books as the basis of a creative writing degree

# ? Aug 3, 2016 18:42

Captain Foo: May 11, 2004; we vibin'
we slidin'
we breathin'
we dyin'

LeftistMuslimObama posted:

ya, using c++ for teaching cs would be a bit like using chuck tingle books as the basis of a creative writing degree

templated in the butt by my own templating error

# ? Aug 3, 2016 18:44

Sapozhnik: Jan 2, 2005; Nap Ghost

Captain Foo posted:

templated in the butt by my own templating error

# ? Aug 3, 2016 18:59

Illusive Fuck Man: Jul 5, 2004; RIP John McCain feel better xoxo ð ð; Taco Defender

not sure who's the terrible programmer in this situation, me, or every python dev. I don't really 'get' mixin classes or why every python dev uses them for everything and they continually frustrate me when I'm trying to figure out what code actually does.

# ? Aug 3, 2016 19:00

Star War Sex Parrot: Oct 2, 2003

Mr Dog posted:

good langs for pedagogical purposes:

python 3
c (99? at that level it doesn't really matter)
risc-v asm (basically just mips without the branch delay slots, and about as likely to be used in practice in tyool 2016 as mips)

bad langs for pedagogical purposes:

java
ruby

horrible langs for pedagogical purposes:

c++
php

apparently I'm learning prolog and Haskell this quarter

Joy

# ? Aug 3, 2016 19:04

JawnV6: Jul 4, 2004; So hot ...

idk what they are either but it was nice to have those "IF(WANT.JOB()) {{ APPLY.COMPANY(); };}" ads all talking about functional mixins for a while, like being in a foreign country and seeing ads

# ? Aug 3, 2016 19:05

Finster Dexter: Oct 20, 2014; Beyond is Finster's mad vision of Earth transformed.

LeftistMuslimObama posted:

ya, using c++ for teaching cs would be a bit like using chuck tingle books as the basis of a creative writing degree

The university I went too recently switched from doing Java as intro and then C++ for everything else to the exact opposite (with a little C++ mixed in there). Yes, C++ for the intro class.

# ? Aug 3, 2016 19:06

NihilCredo: Jun 6, 2011; iram omni possibili modo preme:
plus una illa te diffamabit, quam multæ virtutes commendabunt

Zemyla posted:

No intro to programming class should be done in a language without an REPL. Being able to do little bits and see them immediately on the screen is a powerful motivator, and the sooner they have their "The computer does what I say " moment, the sooner they can have their "The computer does what I say " moment.

Honestly, I would recommend LOGO.

I was taught LOGO in middle school and you're pretty much spot on about those moments

you're definitely not going to cover even the shallowest college-level cs course with it though

i might give you all an aneurysm by doing so but I'm going to suggest js as a teaching language

every student has a repl in their pockets, they can immediately start hacking poo poo with it, visual poo poo too not just 1980s console text adventures, and it covers most of the stuff you'll find in most modern languages

just never ever mention prototypes because

in the second course you smoothly move to typescript and introduce classes and static typing and show them how they let you write programs bigger than punch the monkey without making you want to die

# ? Aug 3, 2016 19:09

Finster Dexter: Oct 20, 2014; Beyond is Finster's mad vision of Earth transformed.

NihilCredo posted:

I was taught LOGO in middle school and you're pretty much spot on about those moments

you're definitely not going to cover even the shallowest college-level cs course with it though

i might give you all an aneurysm by doing so but I'm going to suggest js as a teaching language

every student has a repl in their pockets, they can immediately start hacking poo poo with it, visual poo poo too not just 1980s console text adventures, and it covers most of the stuff you'll find in most modern languages

just never ever mention prototypes because

in the second course you smoothly move to typescript and introduce classes and static typing and show them how they let you write programs bigger than punch the monkey without making you want to die

I think you should just start with typescript, then. Javascript has so many idiotic things it does with type conversions, I'd hate to unleash that upon some poor unsuspecting CS student.

# ? Aug 3, 2016 19:11

Asymmetrikon: Oct 30, 2009; I believe you're a big dork!

Star War Sex Parrot posted:

apparently I'm learning prolog and Haskell this quarter

Joy

those are both good languages

# ? Aug 3, 2016 19:12

gonadic io: Feb 16, 2011; >>=

Star War Sex Parrot posted:

apparently I'm learning prolog and Haskell this quarter

Joy

Plus there's lots of haskell help in this thread, and maybe even prolog if tef is around

# ? Aug 3, 2016 19:21

lord funk: Feb 16, 2004

processing.org

REPL, draw stuff, understand runloops, java is pretty much okay to learn

to me it's like LOGO 2016

# ? Aug 3, 2016 19:24

Bloody: Mar 3, 2013

learn on f#. has a repl, has .net, has visual studio

# ? Aug 3, 2016 19:37

Soricidus: Oct 21, 2010; freedom-hating statist shill

LeftistMuslimObama posted:

ya, using c++ for teaching cs would be a bit like using chuck tingle books as the basis of a creative writing degree

I disagree, I think it would be bad

# ? Aug 3, 2016 19:58

NihilCredo: Jun 6, 2011; iram omni possibili modo preme:
plus una illa te diffamabit, quam multæ virtutes commendabunt

Bloody posted:

learn on f#. has a repl, has .net, has visual studio

i'm the biggest fan of f# there is but no.

it's a hybrid language, designed for melding as smoothly as possible its own ml-ish functional design and the .net object-oriented environment

for an even slightly experienced programmer it's all cool and good, but having two different paradigms coexist in the same environment is probably poison for teaching

e: i'm not too familiar with ocaml but it might be more suitable for that reason, then they can switch to f# with little effort when they start doing real projects and want better libraries / tooling

NihilCredo fucked around with this message at 20:06 on Aug 3, 2016

# ? Aug 3, 2016 19:59

oh no blimp issue: Feb 23, 2011

LeftistMuslimObama posted:

ya, using c++ for teaching cs would be a bit like using chuck tingle books as the basis of a creative writing degree

sink or swim only the best survive

# ? Aug 3, 2016 20:01

Luigi Thirty: Apr 30, 2006; Emergency confection port.

they taught databases in high school for some reason so I learned SQL in 11th grade

Junior college babby cs was Python
regular college babby cs was C++
the data structures class was Java
and then I had to take another Python class for some reason

# ? Aug 3, 2016 20:43

HoboMan: Nov 4, 2010

every cs class that wasn't lisp was c++ for me

# ? Aug 3, 2016 20:44

FamDav: Mar 29, 2008

Soricidus posted:

she iirc

fixed! sorry LeftistMuslimObama.

# ? Aug 3, 2016 21:12

VikingofRock: Aug 24, 2008

I just found a comment from myself from February which said "if you are looking at this part of the code because you want to do X, don't forget to also do Y or you will mess everything up". Sure enough I was about to do X and not Y, so thank you me-from-the-past!

# ? Aug 3, 2016 21:35

The MUMPSorceress: Jan 6, 2012; ^SHTPSTS; Gary’s Answer

FamDav posted:

fixed! sorry LeftistMuslimObama.

*hugz*

can i just say, im super impressed that yospos seems to be the most progressive forum w/r/t queer people and minorities? its hilarious to see d&d-ers constantly express awful opinions only to come to yospos and see people yelling at subjunctive because facebook hosed up a trans thing again (also shoutout to subjunctive for helping me resolve a bug related to name changes when i had to do that for my facebook, lol)

# ? Aug 3, 2016 21:36

VikingofRock: Aug 24, 2008

Luigi Thirty posted:

the data structures class was Java

It has always seemed slightly weird to me that all data structures classes aren't taught in C, since a lot of data structures are concerned with the allocation and deletion of data, and the exact layout of that data in memory. But I've never actually taken an official data structures class, so maybe I'm missing something or it works out in practice.

# ? Aug 3, 2016 21:37

Star War Sex Parrot: Oct 2, 2003

VikingofRock posted:

It has always seemed slightly weird to me that all data structures classes aren't taught in C, since a lot of data structures are concerned with the allocation and deletion of data, and the exact layout of that data in memory. But I've never actually taken an official data structures class, so maybe I'm missing something or it works out in practice.

I've taken data structures classes that use both Java and C++

In general I liked the C++ class more because memory consumption, allocations, and leaks actually mattered. Valgrind was part of the grading component of every assignment

# ? Aug 3, 2016 21:42

The MUMPSorceress: Jan 6, 2012; ^SHTPSTS; Gary’s Answer

VikingofRock posted:

It has always seemed slightly weird to me that all data structures classes aren't taught in C, since a lot of data structures are concerned with the allocation and deletion of data, and the exact layout of that data in memory. But I've never actually taken an official data structures class, so maybe I'm missing something or it works out in practice.

data structures classes are almost always about understanding the metaphorical structure of the data structures and their performance profiles for various use cases. youre nearly always going to be doing naive implementations just to get a feel for what a structure does for you. it doesnt matter that irl a binary tree is usually implemented as an array, in data structures class youre going to do it with a treenode class so you can just think about the abstract part of things.

a good instructor then shows you how the ideal implementation of this data structure was defined in 1968 and every language's standard library has it, but results may vary :shrug:

# ? Aug 3, 2016 21:44

qntm: Jun 17, 2009

LeftistMuslimObama posted:

d&d-ers constantly express awful opinions

unlike yospos, where

# ? Aug 3, 2016 21:46

gonadic io: Feb 16, 2011; >>=

qntm posted:

unlike yospos, where

php is actually good

# ? Aug 3, 2016 21:48

DONT THREAD ON ME: Oct 1, 2002; by Nyc_Tattoo; Floss Finder

FamDav posted:

nah she was rookie of the year last year. now she's looking for league mvp

EDIT: gently caress my partriarchy

terrible programmer thread posting year starts may and the award deliberation process takes a few months, lots of politics

# ? Aug 3, 2016 21:50

Sapozhnik: Jan 2, 2005; Nap Ghost

LeftistMuslimObama posted:

it doesnt matter that irl a binary tree is usually implemented as an array

uh

...?

that makes about as much sense as implementing a linked list as an array

# ? Aug 3, 2016 21:51

hobbesmaster: Jan 28, 2008

Mr Dog posted:

uh

...?

that makes about as much sense as implementing a linked list as an array

bsts and heaps are just fine in array form

# ? Aug 3, 2016 21:55

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# ? May 24, 2024 02:42

DONT THREAD ON ME: Oct 1, 2002; by Nyc_Tattoo; Floss Finder

i also assumed MuslimObama was a dude, so she will be receiving a thoughtful gift from http://www.mancrates.com/

Sorry LMO!

# ? Aug 3, 2016 21:57

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Serious Hardware/Software Crap > YOSPOS > terrible programmers: my god, it's full of chars

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