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The Kins posted:Radiosity is a common sight in most games with pre-baked lightmaps since. Hell, Source Engine still uses a variant of rad, called vrad, and it still takes for-goddamn-ever to do its thing. It does? I stand corrected then. I honestly never looked too closely at mapmaking for Valve's games since a short take on the original Half-Life. I just assumed, since Quake 3 doesn't use radiosity.
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Aug 4, 2016 17:38
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nielsm posted:Another little, technical detail of Quake 2, is that the default lightmap generation tool for mapmaking is called rad, not because it's totally rad, but because it actually calculates radiosity. That is, it doesn't just handle direct lighting and shadows, but calculates multiple passes of light bouncing off walls, which gives some very neat, softer light effects than otherwise seen. Some places you can notice it is that light emitted from lava pits will flow around corners in otherwise dark hallways, and indoor rooms with windows to the outside, but no other lights, won't have as hard shadows as otherwise often seen. Unreal engine definitely does this, I believe from Unreal 1. As mentioned, baking static lights into the map takes ages in most engines.
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Aug 4, 2016 17:40
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Yeah, the weak gunplay is the thing that always puts me off of Unreal when I play it, which pisses me off because everything else is absolutely on-point. Like, if there was a game that had the level design and graphics of Unreal but with the punchiness of Quake 2's gunplay, we'd have a winner. Since it's been mentioned that UT made everything punchier, and I know there's a mod that brings Unreal to Unreal Tournament for whatever reason, I wonder if that mod uses UT's weapons to make the game feel any better? At any rate, my current playthrough is at Velora Pass, and ugh, that Stone Titan fight.
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Aug 4, 2016 17:53
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Quake also has tools that do one bounce per light source. Also support for Phong shading on group and other such brush entities, which is the best part. Observe the smooth shading on the sphere and bounced sky light on its bottom, with-without:
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Aug 4, 2016 18:43
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Shadow Hog posted:Yeah, the weak gunplay is the thing that always puts me off of Unreal when I play it, which pisses me off because everything else is absolutely on-point. Yeah, it's called Operation Na Pali.
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Aug 4, 2016 18:52
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Elliotw2 posted:Yeah, it's called Operation Na Pali. quote:You are a crew member of Vortex Rikers2 10/10
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Aug 4, 2016 19:08
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Humans Among Us posted:These write ups are great GJ! Yeah, really enjoying the write ups!
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Aug 4, 2016 19:18
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Elliotw2 posted:Yeah, it's called Operation Na Pali. Someone post the zip that has the godawful voice acting in Operation Na Pali.
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Aug 4, 2016 19:31
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Also, assuming you're using Oldskool Amp'd for playing Unreal, you can do weapon replacements via a mutator.
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Aug 4, 2016 19:37
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Elliotw2 posted:Also, assuming you're using Oldskool Amp'd for playing Unreal, you can do weapon replacements via a mutator.
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Aug 4, 2016 19:46
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nielsm posted:It does? I stand corrected then. I honestly never looked too closely at mapmaking for Valve's games since a short take on the original Half-Life. Quake 3 uses prebaked lighting same as Quake 2; you might be thinking of Doom 3 and onward. Zombie Samurai posted:Day 4: Quake II Good writeup; Quake 2 was my favourite because I felt like it pulled off a good and immersive and cohesive single player campaign unlike most FPS games prior to Half-Life. While there's something to be said about abstractness, it was cool that places existed for a reason and you went places for reasons and did specific things for reasons. And since I've been digging deeper into its source code lately I've come to appreciate a lot of the technical aspects of it. The fact that the same executable had single player, multiplayer client, listen server, and dedicated servers in it plus all the rendering modes was pretty revolutionary. BattleMaster fucked around with this message at 19:57 on Aug 4, 2016 |
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Aug 4, 2016 19:53
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BattleMaster posted:Quake 3 uses prebaked lighting same as Quake 2; you might be thinking of Doom 3 and onward. Yes Q3 also uses precalculated lightmaps, but the light tool doesn't do radiosity, only direct lighting. At least none I ever used does.
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Aug 4, 2016 20:00
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One of my favorite things about Quake II recently is that this is a thing that exists.
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Aug 4, 2016 20:21
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The only good thing Return to Na Pali has is the soundtrack, of course: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rMmr93S6U10 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Jol2v8E_QM (yes, it does sound familiar, because it's the reworked - and, IMO better - version of "Dusk Horizon" from the OG game)
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Aug 4, 2016 20:25
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The id games are half-off on Steam for Quakecon or something. I find it hilarious that Rage is half the price of the BFG Edition.
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Aug 4, 2016 20:27
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laserghost posted:The only good thing Return to Na Pali has is the soundtrack, of course: The Neve's Crossing music owns and it always reminds me of the Heavy Metal theme by Don Felder: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=02nAH_oAjeg N'thing the sentiment that Unreal's world was nothing short of mindblowing, but the gunplay just didn't quite sit well with me. Also the Skaarj were loving annoying but I'm not really accustomed to my enemies in games from that era being "smart." I remember a level late in the game with a large Nali town where I managed to find a way out of bounds and found a huge rectangular black pit with a single Nali meditating in the center of it. It was kind of weird.
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Aug 4, 2016 20:41
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Cat Mattress posted:The id games are half-off on Steam for Quakecon or something. I find it hilarious that Rage is half the price of the BFG Edition. Man Steam discounts really went to poo poo since they instated automatic refunds. Glad I picked up literally every id game already.
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Aug 4, 2016 20:49
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The tracker music from the big 3 Unreal Engine 1 games (Unreal, UT, DX) is almost universally great and the ripped MP3s used to have a permanent place in my playlist. Probably still have those lying around somewhere...
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Aug 4, 2016 20:52
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nSOf4jc0wuk
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Aug 4, 2016 21:01
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Mak0rz posted:The Neve's Crossing music owns and it always reminds me of the Heavy Metal theme by Don Felder: The Unreal levels are sprinkled full of those kinds of rooms. The game made heavy use of its physical and render portal tech to create things that other games would solve with monster closets and level-specific hacks. While it could certainly spawn and remove entities based on triggers, it would just as often move them around in the level — similar to the old Doom holding rooms from which monsters would be teleported in — because it was easier to maintain entity states that way. You could do a lot of interesting thing with skyboxes, for instance, and make enemies appear to move around very randomly while still following a very simple scripted path — only that some parts of that path aren't in the actual bit of level that the player has access to. Also, while the trick was never really used in the main game, any time you want to build impossible geometry (Penrose stairs, infinite-height falls, or remote-seeing screens), using a dummy volume in the middle of nowhere makes things a whole lot easier to put together.
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Aug 4, 2016 21:07
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haveblue posted:The tracker music from the big 3 Unreal Engine 1 games (Unreal, UT, DX) is almost universally great and the ripped MP3s used to have a permanent place in my playlist. Probably still have those lying around somewhere... Check sometime the excellent soundtrack for Jazz Jackrabbit 2, also composed by Alexander Brandon. Some of those pieces sound like early concepts for Deus Ex muzak: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7OR9esOvUUc Also his earlier works in demoscene are well worth a listen (interestingly enough, in comments to this tracks he confesses to copying Andrew Sega's wholesale) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IqwsNRRisI8 laserghost fucked around with this message at 21:15 on Aug 4, 2016 |
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Aug 4, 2016 21:09
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Tippis posted:You could do a lot of interesting thing with skyboxes, for instance The Unreal skyboxes were (and presumably still are) just an isolated part of the level with an entity dropped in to identify it as such. You could noclip into them, spawn stuff, and noclip back to the main map and see half-mile-high Skaarj wandering around behind the mountains.
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Aug 4, 2016 21:11
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So, on Quake 2, are there any architecturally interesting maps around? A short while ago I tried playing around with it again, just wanting to see if I could do some overly detailed work with brushes and lighting. I never build more than a single corridor, but I think it turned out okay. It turns out that Q2 doesn't like too small brushes? When I made geometry just a single or perhaps 2 units wide, it tended to collapse onto points and get deformed.      I should also have modeled the holes in the drainage along the edge, and a sewer running below.
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Aug 4, 2016 21:13
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Same thing for Half-Life 2, at least. Had some good times making giant head-crabs in City 17 
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Aug 4, 2016 21:13
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haveblue posted:The Unreal skyboxes were (and presumably still are) just an isolated part of the level with an entity dropped in to identify it as such. You could noclip into them, spawn stuff, and noclip back to the main map and see half-mile-high Skaarj wandering around behind the mountains. Yup, but that was a pretty advanced thing compared to fixed and baked textures that other games used to auto-build a skybox. The ability to have complex animations going on that would otherwise require insanely huge animated textures is just one thing, and that's not even touching the actual multiple layers of animated textures you could put into that skybox. And at the end of the day, the skybox was just a special-purpose subset of the more general portal rendering. I suppose that, at the time, using that to any degree would be tough on the hardware, which is why it wasn't used very much.
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Aug 4, 2016 21:16
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Thanks, this sent me on a wonderful journey of E1M1 remixes. I think this one's my favourite.
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Aug 4, 2016 21:21
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haveblue posted:The Unreal skyboxes were (and presumably still are) just an isolated part of the level with an entity dropped in to identify it as such. You could noclip into them, spawn stuff, and noclip back to the main map and see half-mile-high Skaarj wandering around behind the mountains. Convex posted:Same thing for Half-Life 2, at least. Had some good times making giant head-crabs in City 17 This gave me lofty ideas of using skyboxes to make a map where Doomguy is a small pawn on a game board being watched by four gigantic cyberdemons but I just tested it and the effect is kind of lost unless your sprite billboarding settings are set just right.
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Aug 4, 2016 21:44
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I'd kinda like it if ZDoom skyboxes could move in relation to the map like Source's skyboxes do, honestly. Like, you'd need an anchor point in-map, which would contain the scale as a Thing Special parameter and be used for calculating offsets, whereas if it's absent, the current behavior where geometry in the skybox doesn't move anywhere would remain.
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Aug 4, 2016 21:53
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nielsm posted:But I'm not sure if any other games have done this since!
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Aug 4, 2016 21:55
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I'm pretty fond of this medley of Doom remixes, except for its opening so just skip right to 1:14 in. I don't think I can do time stamps on this loving phone. https://youtu.be/2LmwGPtVnmc
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Aug 4, 2016 21:57
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My issue with Unreal's gunplay was the same issue I had with the original Prey (speaking of which take a look at the new trailer for Arkane's reboot/reimagining  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LNHZ9WAertc )I'm all for unique weapons, but there's something to be said for familiarity. Unreal's got guns that shoot green goop (useless), the flak cannon which is supposed to be a shotgun but just looks like a big boring hunk of metal poo poo, the useless razorjack, and a machinegun that shoots crystals I guess??? They're just not any fun to use at all. And Prey, jesus louiesus, the arsenal was hideous and awful. I'd honestly rather have a boring but familiar arsenal surrounded by solid level design and combat encounters than unique guns that are ugly and no fun to use.
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Aug 4, 2016 22:27
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Al Cu Ad Solte posted:My issue with Unreal's gunplay was the same issue I had with the original Prey (speaking of which take a look at the new trailer for Arkane's reboot/reimagining Heresy! Burn the witch! Etc.  • Bio Rifle is excellent against fast enemies — a big glob instagibs them (this carried over to the godlike bots in UT99). • Flak Cannon is more of a grenade launcher, but could probably be used as a shotgun against flying crap and dodging Skaarjs. • Razorjack is… well, ok. It's a bit odd, but it's far from useless once you get a hang of the bouncing (and head chopping). • And yeah, the Stinger is just a minigun for when it's too soon to be handed a minigun — that could have been made more sensible. • Also, the triple-mode weapons like the ASMD and Eightball are probably even more unfamiliar than any of that. Still, grrr! 
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Aug 4, 2016 22:37
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The weapons were conceptually really interesting but the implementations were garbage. Unreal Tournament fixed this by skipping the crappy blaster and giving you a proper melee weapon and the pistol to start with, tossing the dumb crystal shard weapon in favour of a plasma gun/lightning gun combo, adding a proper super weapon, and making everything overall do a useful amount of damage. edit: it was almost embarrassing how little damage a full spread of rockets or the  did in Unreal versus UT
BattleMaster fucked around with this message at 22:47 on Aug 4, 2016 |
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Aug 4, 2016 22:42
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New Quake Champions trailer from QuakeCon
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Aug 4, 2016 22:54
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Playing on I count no less than 5 rocket jumps, including a rocket assist on a boost jump. Good. This is good. This is clearly meant to be Q3A II. A.o.D. fucked around with this message at 23:02 on Aug 4, 2016 |
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Aug 4, 2016 23:00
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The giant eyeball thing is kinda sweet, but they're kinda overusing it in the trailer. Also: 
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Aug 4, 2016 23:01
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I had thought they were going for an Overwatch sort of thing with distinct heroes but it looks like Quake III redux in that video. Which isn't a bad thing.
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Aug 4, 2016 23:04
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Tippis posted:Heresy! Burn the witch! Etc. Bio Rifle : look dumb Flak Cannon : bad sound Razorjack : cool name, that's all ASMD : actually good Eight Ball : Who doesn't look a good rocket launcher? Your move, creep. (  )
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Aug 4, 2016 23:05
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Oh this is definitely my poo poo, hopefully there's a comp mode where you can disable character specific gimmicks. Wouldn't be disappointed if there wasn't tho, they don't look stupid powerful at least.
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Aug 4, 2016 23:06
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Yeah, the game looks great! Looks like they managed to grab the look and feel of Q3A pretty good so far.
Mak0rz fucked around with this message at 23:10 on Aug 4, 2016 |
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Aug 4, 2016 23:08
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