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Mantis42 posted:Rome was historically plausible even if it wasn't accurate. The producers explicitly aimed for authenticity rather than accuracy, and were very candid about that choice. I think it worked well.
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Aug 4, 2016 05:21
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Ynglaur posted:The producers explicitly aimed for authenticity rather than accuracy, and were very candid about that choice. I think it worked well. I really wish there was more fiction about the ancient world that took the Rome approach. The little things like the Roman street culture really allowed that show to transcend the usual tendency toward slapping togas on everyone and calling it a day.
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Aug 4, 2016 05:25
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edit: double post
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Aug 4, 2016 05:25
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Rome played with the events a bit but for an accurate depiction of the Roman world, you won't do better.Jerusalem posted:2. WHEN did people realize punctuation and spaces between words was a good thing? They still haven't in some places. I've never really learned to deal with the lack of spacing in East Asian languages.
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Aug 4, 2016 05:35
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One of my history professors described the classical Mediterranean as "people hooking up everywhere" and I commend HBO and Starz Spartacus for their attention to detail.
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Aug 4, 2016 05:53
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Reading a book on history, and the author notes that the Romans are responsible for the the use of simple, clear lettering for architecture. Which is such a basic but important thing that's it's really impressive. BravestOfTheLamps fucked around with this message at 06:58 on Aug 4, 2016 |
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Aug 4, 2016 06:54
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:Reading a book on history, and the author notes that the Romans are responsible for the the use of simple, clear lettering for architecture. Note that Agrippa, noted  dude, stuck punctuation-spaces where most Romans (before his time) would have said "eh, they'll figure it out".
Jazerus fucked around with this message at 07:46 on Aug 4, 2016 |
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Aug 4, 2016 07:32
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Surely the most interesting part about the Pantheon is its sign. (Way back in like '97 when I visited Rome the drat thing was closed  )
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Aug 4, 2016 07:35
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We've been using those letters for a long time...
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Aug 4, 2016 07:35
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 (Arch of Titus) It's so legible. This is truly why the Romans were masters of the world. BravestOfTheLamps fucked around with this message at 07:52 on Aug 4, 2016 |
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Aug 4, 2016 07:43
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:
"Senatus Populus Que Romanus" is the meaning of "SPQR" by the way if anyone was unaware. Senate and People of Rome. Their way of saying "your tax sestercii at work!"
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Aug 4, 2016 07:49
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Pre-restoration:
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Aug 4, 2016 07:55
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Jerusalem posted:2. WHEN did people realize punctuation and spaces between words was a good thing? In English, it took a long time. Roman punctuation was basically the capital letter for important words, paragraph break, and a dot between words instead of spaces·like·I'm·doing·here, and would also squash the letters together and use lots of abbreviations if necessary. In the Dark Ages people started to get a bit more creative, and most of it was designed to make reading easier for preachers and orators - i.e., showing them where to pause and for how long. I think one of the influence on punctuation at this time was music notation, where controlling how the singers interpret the book was more important. Word spacing began in the 8th century, when miniscule scripts (looking like lowercase instead of upperase letters) became more common and Latin wasn't as well known - so yes, they did it to make reading easier. It also helped silent reading become more important, about the 10th century. Then punctuation really took off and most of the other punctuation marks were invented by 1500, I think. Other languages do it differently, of course. Chinese doesn't use word spacing (and it's not really a problem for me  ) and I think really only adopted punctuation in the 19th century. I think that might have something to do with the structure of the language; if 嗎 always means a question, a ? is unnecessary. It does have an extra backwards comma used only for lists, though.
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Aug 4, 2016 09:35
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Thanks guys, I love learning stuff like this 
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Aug 4, 2016 10:18
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FAUXTON posted:"Senatus Populus Que Romanus" is the meaning of "SPQR" by the way if anyone was unaware. Well, Populusque - -que on the end of a word in Latin means 'and <word>', but it's not a separate word itself.
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Aug 4, 2016 10:59
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Has there ever been a more contentious "and" than filioque
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Aug 4, 2016 11:01
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House Louse posted:
Lack of spacing in Chinese is a serious problem because modern Mandarin uses compound words so extensively. The first step, mentally, to reading any compound word is to identify that it's a compound in the first place. Mandarin uses 2 and 3 character words for most of its nouns. A spacing system (or use of brackets for compounds or something) would help comprehensibility. Notice in pinyin words are spaced and compounds left together and it's a big help. Verbs are easier because they are grammatically regular but there's still no excuse for not spacing. Chinese has a clear and intuitive use for spacing, and the way people naturally adopt spacing when writing Chinese in Roman letters is good evidence for it. Nobody would write woaixinzhongguo in pinyin but they'd also never write wo ai xin zhong guo either, it always comes out wo ai xin zhongguo because people intuitively understand that "China" is a single unit despite being a compound word. The Chinese writing system is bad and not spacing your words is bad. Arglebargle III fucked around with this message at 15:29 on Aug 4, 2016 |
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Aug 4, 2016 13:03
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Arglebargle III posted:Lack of spacing in Chinese is a serious problem because modern Mandarin uses compound words so extensively. The first step, mentally, to reading any compound word is to identify its components. Mandarin uses 2 and 3 character words for most of its nouns. A spacing system (or use of brackets for compounds or something) would help comprehensibility. Notice in pinyin words are spaced and compounds left together and it's a big help. And since Japan uses most of the same characters as Chinese, they have the same problem. A particular sting of logograms could mean either "Museum of History" or "Diaper Hypnosis" depending on where the different words begin.
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Aug 4, 2016 13:19
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Jazerus posted:Note that Agrippa, noted (Agrippa didn't write that one)
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Aug 4, 2016 13:21
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peer posted:Has there ever been a more contentious "and" than filioque I like where this is going and this is totally the thread for you to say more.
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Aug 4, 2016 13:37
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Korean is worse than either because it's agglutinative and an alphabet so unless you're totally fluent you have no loving idea where words begin or end when they don't use spaces. It's already tough because you can have a verb with a stem + six particles and you have to hunt through the whole word to find the stem and hope it's the one you think it is because "ga" could be like 20 different things and if you don't have the context perfect then ? ? ?
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Aug 4, 2016 14:29
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ALL-PRO SEXMAN posted:And since Japan uses most of the same characters as Chinese, they have the same problem. A particular sting of logograms could mean either "Museum of History" or "Diaper Hypnosis" depending on where the different words begin. It's at least a little better because you intersperse hiragana particles and conjugation into the kanji.
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Aug 4, 2016 15:46
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Are spaces not even used by younger Chinese and Japanese? In my experience younger Koreans pretty much always use them. And I think the older people that didn't instead put in Hanja (Chinese Characters) to differentiate. Grand Fromage posted:Korean is worse than either because it's agglutinative and an alphabet so unless you're totally fluent you have no loving idea where words begin or end when they don't use spaces. It's already tough because you can have a verb with a stem + six particles and you have to hunt through the whole word to find the stem and hope it's the one you think it is because "ga" could be like 20 different things and if you don't have the context perfect then ? ? ? Once you learn the particles and conjugations etc it makes sense though since there are only so many of them and they stick out, it's just a bitch to learn (and to look up translations- Korean is loving awful on Google Translate). Whereas with Chinese it seems like the compound words would be an issue even for native speakers.
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Aug 4, 2016 16:34
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Would have made sense to introduce word spacing when they made the switch to horizontal writing, but no point bitching about it now. Is classical Chinese as big into compound words? Dunno if it was as big of an issue back then.
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Aug 4, 2016 16:39
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euphronius posted:(Agrippa didn't write that one) Can't even do his own signage? 
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Aug 4, 2016 16:44
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Koramei posted:Are spaces not even used by younger Chinese and Japanese? I almost never see spaces used in Chinese by friends/students. Korean Google Translate protip, Google Translate has a lot more experience going Korean-Japanese and Japanese-English, so if you translate Korean -> Japanese -> English or vice versa you usually end up with a better translation. Grand Fromage fucked around with this message at 17:03 on Aug 4, 2016 |
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Aug 4, 2016 17:01
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P-Mack posted:Would have made sense to introduce word spacing when they made the switch to horizontal writing, but no point bitching about it now. No, classical Chinese has less use for spaces.
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Aug 4, 2016 17:02
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ALL-PRO SEXMAN posted:And since Japan uses most of the same characters as Chinese, they have the same problem. A particular sting of logograms could mean either "Museum of History" or "Diaper Hypnosis" depending on where the different words begin.  Could you post said string of logograms?
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Aug 4, 2016 17:35
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Grand Fromage posted:I almost never see spaces used in Chinese by friends/students. Periods and commas do exist in Chinese but are rarely used except in books or for educational purposes.
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Aug 4, 2016 23:37
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Periods and commas are universal in Chinese.
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Aug 4, 2016 23:40
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Yeah.Arglebargle III posted:Lack of spacing in Chinese is a serious problem because modern Mandarin uses compound words so extensively. The first step, mentally, to reading any compound word is to identify that it's a compound in the first place. Mandarin uses 2 and 3 character words for most of its nouns. A spacing system (or use of brackets for compounds or something) would help comprehensibility. Notice in pinyin words are spaced and compounds left together and it's a big help. First up, I said it wasn't a problem for me, as a counterpoint to what GF said  I agree Chinese could use spacing, but it's hardly the most unintuitive thing about Chinese writing. However, I don't think the comparison to pinyin works because pinyin isn't a writing system per se, it's intended to help pronunciation, and the spacing helps by showing where the pauses are and when not to run tones into each other, etc. This is opposite to what I just said about word spacing in Latin and I'd guess it's because Latin is inflected, so it's easier to spot the ends of words. I'm going to reply to some other stuff in the Chinese thread btw.ALL-PRO SEXMAN posted:And since Japan uses most of the same characters as Chinese, they have the same problem. A particular sting of logograms could mean either "Museum of History" or "Diaper Hypnosis" depending on where the different words begin. An excellent argument in favour of not spacing. Koramei posted:Are spaces not even used by younger Chinese and Japanese? Not in my experience.
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Aug 5, 2016 02:21
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eszett engma posted:
As far as I know there isn't one, I just made it up as an example based on my attempts to Google Translate the captions on an old postcard.
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Aug 5, 2016 03:37
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Arglebargle III posted:Periods and commas are universal in Chinese. Yeah punctuation is normal . It also prevents many Chinese people from doing it properly in English ,because we punctuate differently and students are profoundly confused by this «spacing is also a problem» ,and it can be nearly impossible to get through 。
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Aug 5, 2016 03:51
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Once you can read Chinese characters fairly well you end up understanding why they haven't added spaces. It just doesn't feel very necessary. Same with Japanese. Korean is a different story though and spaces help a lot in parsing what's going on.
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Aug 5, 2016 04:37
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homullus posted:I like where this is going and this is totally the thread for you to say more. The disagreement as to whether the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father or from the Father and the Son is a great example of using a minor disagreement as an excuse to finally say "gently caress you, we're breaking up," a tactic known to relationships to this day.
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Aug 5, 2016 04:49
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OnceyoucanreadEnglishfairlywellyouendupunderstandingwhytheyhaventaddedspaces. Itjustdoesntfeelverynecessary. I don't think I'll ever be swayed by the "I can do it, therefore it is not inconvenient," argument.
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Aug 5, 2016 04:51
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no why
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Aug 5, 2016 05:14
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Arglebargle III posted:OnceyoucanreadEnglishfairlywellyouendupunderstandingwhytheyhaventaddedspaces. Tmkthngsmrntrstngrmvthvwls
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Aug 5, 2016 05:17
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Arglebargle III posted:OnceyoucanreadEnglishfairlywellyouendupunderstandingwhytheyhaventaddedspaces.
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Aug 5, 2016 05:59
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Thai is the most absurd writing system I have seen. It looks like it shouldn't be but read about how it actually works and you'll be shocked anyone there is literate.
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Aug 5, 2016 06:01
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