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Mojo Threepwood posted:I recently finished Battle Cry of Freedom and I had a question about Andersonville prison in Georgia. The book spends time explaining how bad the conditions were and how this was a known issue in the north, but the prison wasn't liberated until May 1865 when the war was over. Here is a really good but poorly formatted essay on this topic. Basically 1) Hood was still a danger at that point, 2) he didn't want 30,000 weak, sick men attached to his army that was operating with precarious supply lines deep in enemy territory. In related news the expedition to relieve the camp was an absolute gong show.
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Aug 4, 2016 21:09
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Kemper Boyd posted:Book recommendation time: I am that loving prat who reads books while walking. I have walked enough this summer to finish Iron Kingdom: The Rise and Downfall of Prussia, 1600-1947, and it is really good. From a milhist pov, it is interesting to see how the performance of the Prussian military ebbs and flows and how political situations affect it. Seconding this. It was great beach reading.
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Aug 4, 2016 21:45
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xthetenth posted:We don't do pacific air combat enough, other than occasionally rehashing midway and the general state of things before the hellcat. Many moons ago posted:Japan has a wide variety of aircraft. I've effort-posted a few times on them that I could try to fish from the archives if people don't mind me reposting content from a different thread. I'm always up to talking about planes. May not have a lot on Japanese Air Force tactics, unfortunately.
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Aug 4, 2016 21:46
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HEY GAL posted:So, this stuff. Green glass, a lot of the time with merengue-like blobs on the sides. Glass was so cheap that a widely accepted method of showing respect in Poland was to toast somebody and break the glass immediately after. If you wanted to show someone mad respect, you would break the glass against your own dumb drunk forehead.
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Aug 4, 2016 21:49
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Tevery Best posted:Glass was so cheap that a widely accepted method of showing respect in Poland was to toast somebody and break the glass immediately after. NOte that the glass we're talking about here is more like wine-glass thickness than pint glass thickness.
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Aug 4, 2016 21:51
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Cyrano4747 posted:Seconding this. It was great beach reading. I read it on a business trip when I had nothing else to do, good time. Made me think the Hohenzollerns would have been pretty good at CK2, always keeping an eye out for claims and inheritances while giving no fucks about contiguous borders.
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Aug 4, 2016 21:53
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 on the first chapter now on that recommendation; spot the part where i raised an eyebrow
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Aug 4, 2016 22:00
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HEY GAL posted:you go to war with the Wettin you have, not the Wettin you wish you have HEY GUNS fucked around with this message at 22:17 on Aug 4, 2016 |
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Aug 4, 2016 22:15
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HEY GAL posted:apparently some of the people of the amazon were so dismayed by the early modern european practice of medical/instrumental cannibalism (which I posted about in the last thread), in the 1970s their descendants still called the author of this New Yorker article a pischtaco, someone who wants to steal the fat from human bodies. This is from a few pages ago (I'm still catching up with the new thread), but interestingly the Lakota Sioux epithet for a white person is "wasicu" which translates roughly to "steals the fat." I dunno if that's related but seems plausible.
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Aug 4, 2016 22:19
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Jobbo_Fett posted:I'm always up to talking about planes. May not have a lot on Japanese Air Force tactics, unfortunately. Yeah. I don't have a ton of that yet either, I'll need to decant sunburst into my head before I get rolling, and probably ought to do at least some light reading of the start of Dull's battle history of the IJN. Current plan is to do WWII start through Midway first, because I've just about got a firm base to work from. Problem is my attention span comes in a little orange cylinder with a child-safe top, so I'm real vulnerable to slowdowns. xthetenth fucked around with this message at 22:28 on Aug 4, 2016 |
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Aug 4, 2016 22:24
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Pellisworth posted:This is from a few pages ago (I'm still catching up with the new thread), but interestingly the Lakota Sioux epithet for a white person is "wasicu" which translates roughly to "steals the fat." I dunno if that's related but seems plausible. edit: typo, but i'm sticking with it
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Aug 4, 2016 22:25
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xthetenth posted:Yeah. I don't have a ton of that yet either, I'll need to decant sunburst into my head before I get rolling, and probably ought to do at least some light reading of the start of Dull's battle history of the IJN. That's why I tend to keep my posts short. There's so much to talk about, too, which makes it hard to choose just one thing.
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Aug 4, 2016 22:28
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HEY GAL posted:when specifically did they first meat our ancestors heh I dunno for sure, the Sioux peoples were semi-nomadic and lived in what's now Minnesota, they got horses in the 18th century and moved westward as a result of pressure from white settlers and other tribes being displaced. The first direct contact with Europeans would have been with French traders, so whenever that was a thing, Wikipedia says quote:The first recorded encounter between the Sioux and the French occurred when Radisson and Groseilliers reached what is now Wisconsin during the winter of 1659-60 Contact with Anglo-Americans would have been much later, the Lewis and Clark expedition was 1804-1806. But if taking fat from dead human bodies is a thing for the French in the early-mid 1600s it's plausible that the Lakota word is derived from the practice. Even without direct contact you'd definitely get second-hand accounts of Europeans earlier than that. Edit: I forget the actual Lakota word since it's pretty rarely used, but there's another epithet for mixed-race (white and Lakota) people that means literally "translator." The French traders made a deliberate practice of marrying Native American women so they could have a translator and multilingual kids. Many, many Native American families have French surnames today. Edit2: I remembered, iyeska = translator (mixed-race person) Pellisworth fucked around with this message at 22:44 on Aug 4, 2016 |
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Aug 4, 2016 22:34
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Pellisworth posted:Edit: I forget the actual Lakota word since it's pretty rarely used, but there's another epithet for mixed-race (white and Lakota) people that means literally "translator." The French traders made a deliberate practice of marrying Native American women so they could have a translator and multilingual kids. Many, many Native American families have French surnames today. appropriately enough. edit: and all western europeans made medicines and magical substances out of fat/bones/blood/etc in the 1600s, so far as i know HEY GUNS fucked around with this message at 22:47 on Aug 4, 2016 |
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Aug 4, 2016 22:42
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HEY GAL posted:edit: and all western europeans made medicines and magical substances out of fat/bones/blood/etc in the 1600s, so far as i know Then it's plausible that practice is the origin of the Lakota word for white people / outsiders. I'm not well studied enough in traditional Lakota medicine (magic) and spirituality to say whether they'd have viewed it as taboo, but it's not something they practiced and they'd definitely have taken note of it either from direct contact or second-hand. Edit: traditional Lakota belief is after a person dies their spirit travels to join their ancestors in the spirit world (the heavens, stars are spirit people). They either buried their dead or built a scaffold and left the body elevated in open air. Grave goods were a big thing so the deceased could take them along to the spirit world. I'd imagine Europeans cannabilizing corpses for magic and medicine would've been pretty taboo. Pellisworth fucked around with this message at 22:56 on Aug 4, 2016 |
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Aug 4, 2016 22:52
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Pellisworth posted:Edit: I forget the actual Lakota word since it's pretty rarely used, but there's another epithet for mixed-race (white and Lakota) people that means literally "translator." The French traders made a deliberate practice of marrying Native American women so they could have a translator and multilingual kids. Many, many Native American families have French surnames today. AKA Métis. At least, that's been my understanding of it. I really need to start reading up on that...
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Aug 4, 2016 22:55
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HEY GAL posted:wait a sec, Kemper Boyd, are you talking about Johann Georg of Saxony, who was the guy who had that nickname, or Georg Wilhelm of Brandenburg? you've confused me I was talking about Georg Wilhelm, confused the nicknames because the Brandenburgian dude was an inefficient alcoholic too.
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Aug 4, 2016 22:57
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Kemper Boyd posted:I was talking about Georg Wilhelm, confused the nicknames because the Brandenburgian dude was an inefficient alcoholic too. speaking of alcoholics, who do you think created a more toxic working environment, wallenstein or baner?
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Aug 4, 2016 23:01
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Uhh... http://bfy.tw/74TK Native American languages aren't my sub-area, but that stinks of folk etymology so I'd go with the bundle of sticks/special powers one. (One day I will teach you all to look up etymologies. One day. )
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Aug 4, 2016 23:20
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Xiahou Dun posted:Uhh... Did you have a specific source with a credible reference? I checked the first few and the notion of it as a folk etymology is unsourced. I grew up on a Lakota reservation, learned some of it in school there, and have heard tribal elders and probably the most respected Lakota writer and cultural teacher of this generation (Albert White Hat Sr.) who also wrote a dictionary and orthography for the language, give "steals the fat" as the etymology. Your point in general stands about looking up etymologies, this just happens to be one I've heard from several native speaking tribal elders, so I'm sticking with it. Edit: I mean, even if it is a folk etymology it's widely used and has cultural significance in suggesting how white people are viewed (not positively). It is probably one of the most common words you'll hear living on the rez, it's one of the few bits even non-speakers will regularly use. Pellisworth fucked around with this message at 23:39 on Aug 4, 2016 |
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Aug 4, 2016 23:31
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I don't have a source, just read through the first page of the linked google search. That said, I'm a professional etymologist and historical linguist and the 'steals the fat' etymology reeks of made-up-by-layman : real etymologies don't have cute stories like that almost ever, and it's a thing I have to bang into my students' heads really hard. Also, and I mean this in the nicest way possible, but that's actually a terrible source for etymologies ; being a speaker of a language, even a very educated and well respected one, does not actually make you good at historical linguistics, it's like saying you know biology because you're alive. I want to look into it with sources/energy levels that aren't "my phone" and "just coming off of 3 weeks working 70 hours", but if that etymology is true I will be loving astonished. Edit gently caress since you edited : that's legit and a great point sociologically and people still might be thinking of it in that way, totally true ; however, no matter how people feel doesn't change actual facts. Noting perceptions is cool and good of course, but if we're actually talking about what actually happened it's irrelevant. Xiahou Dun fucked around with this message at 23:49 on Aug 4, 2016 |
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Aug 4, 2016 23:46
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Lol, I'm the guy who goes to "Google this for me" rather than linking some articles/websites.
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Aug 4, 2016 23:47
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Xiahou Dun posted:I don't have a source, just read through the first page of the linked google search. I PM'd you on this, to end the derail I agree. I've taken classes from Albert White Hat and he didn't know the etymologies of some words, particularly relating to cosmology, mythology, and religion. He would say "the elders told me its name was X, which I think is a contraction of Y." As several of your sources point out, Lakota is hugely into contracting words, word-play, and puns. Even if it's not the actual historic etymology, it's widely accepted within the community and has cultural significance. If you're interested I have contacts at the local tribal college and could ask their Lakota Studies dept about it, let's continue this in PMs so as not to poo poo up tank and pikechat.
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Aug 4, 2016 23:55
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Guys let's crowdsource an academic paper out of this. edit: I'll make the website
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Aug 4, 2016 23:57
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i'm really more of an "ideas" guy
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Aug 5, 2016 00:00
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Quick, what's Lakotian for "Pike Squares"?
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Aug 5, 2016 00:03
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Paper title: "The New World: what is it with that place and fat?"
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Aug 5, 2016 00:04
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"Fat in the New World: An American experience" 
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Aug 5, 2016 00:15
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America is a couple centuries behind Europe on realizing the magical properties of human fat.
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Aug 5, 2016 00:32
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Spiderfist Island posted:I have a question for the Napoleonics in the thread about armament production. In addition to what has already said, I'll add a few things. I haven't heard of crossbows being used, but pikes were issued in 1812 to the Russian opolchenie (militia), but they were not expected to do much in the way of fighting. Their job was mostly support-based. There's also the fact that as far as the average soldier was concerned, a flintlock was usually a flintlock unless the caliber of your ammunition couldn't fit the caliber of your musket. (The British could use captured French ammunition but not vice-versa, since British muskets and thus ammunition were of a larger caliber than would fit in a French musket barrel.) That meant that recycling whatever you captured or looted could suffice. As such, when the French captured Vienna in 1805 and again in 1809, they availed themselves to Austrian-made weapons (which were based on French models in any case and were regarded as being of superior quality) as they chose. On the other side, the Russians captured gobs of French weapons after 1812; in one regiment, just over half of their muskets were of Russian manufacture (and even then a couple of different models) while the rest were predominantly captured French muskets with a sprinkling of Prussian ones. ETA: I can't do tags Flanker Pylon fucked around with this message at 01:29 on Aug 5, 2016 |
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Aug 5, 2016 01:26
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Jobbo_Fett posted:I'm always up to talking about planes. May not have a lot on Japanese Air Force tactics, unfortunately. OK, here's a question about planes. Namely, the Kawanishi H8K 'Emily' flying boat. I know little about the H8K, but for some reason whenever I see a blurb about it, it's described as "one of the best flying boats of the war." Do you know why this is? Because it looks like a Japanese Sunderland to me. e: wow, the H8K's engines have like double the output of the Sunderland e2: And it's a third faster, and it has more than double the range - WTF? Nebakenezzer fucked around with this message at 01:45 on Aug 5, 2016 |
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Aug 5, 2016 01:41
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Jobbo_Fett posted:Lol, I'm the guy who goes to "Google this for me" rather than linking some articles/websites. Are you new to the concept of rhetoric? Cause it's a thing.
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Aug 5, 2016 01:42
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After one month of camping in Oklahoma i have managed to read most of Dreadnought (most I had to skip some of the later sudden biography chapters. theres only 5 chapters left, no i dont give a gently caress about baron von fuckboi, diplomatic minister. go back to talking about ships dammit!) Jackie Fisher is amazing. He so... spazzy compared to what you would expect from a british admiral. I like the park where he paces around with a sign on his neck that says GIVE ME WORK 
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Aug 5, 2016 01:51
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Nebakenezzer posted:OK, here's a question about planes. Namely, the Kawanishi H8K 'Emily' flying boat. I know little about the H8K, but for some reason whenever I see a blurb about it, it's described as "one of the best flying boats of the war." Do you know why this is? Because it looks like a Japanese Sunderland to me. If I remember correctly, and I'll have to double-check with what books, but I seem to recall that it had really good flight characteristics as well as a good hull shape. It could fly huge distances and had a lot of defensive guns to protect it, 10 guns, half of those cannons, give it a mean punch! Double checking with Wikipedia, its article is rather short, but I do have at least one of the books that cites the "Best Flying Boat" line so I'll make sure to check the exact reason(s) they give.
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Aug 5, 2016 01:53
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Xerxes17 posted:Quick, what's Lakotian for "Pike Squares"? The Lakota were badass horse archers who got high off of sweat lodges, sage incense, exhaustion, food and sleep deprivation with bonus blood sacrifice (sun dance) because they didn't have alcohol or other intoxicants. They ain't about no pussy pike-and-shot gout-ridden drunkard European warfare. I was actually chatting with HEY GAL earlier and looked up the Lakota for "gun," it's mázawakȟáŋ which is a compound of metal + powerful. In another lifetime I'd have studied Native American history and the frontier conflicts 
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Aug 5, 2016 02:10
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Pellisworth posted:The Lakota were badass horse archers who got high off of sweat lodges, sage incense, exhaustion, food and sleep deprivation with bonus blood sacrifice (sun dance) because they didn't have alcohol or other intoxicants. They ain't about no pussy pike-and-shot gout-ridden drunkard European warfare. whats stopping you? A library card and an amazon wishlist can take you a long way.
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Aug 5, 2016 02:30
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Pellisworth posted:If you're interested I have contacts at the local tribal college and could ask their Lakota Studies dept about it, let's continue this in PMs so as not to poo poo up tank and pikechat. This is the opposite of making GBS threads up though.
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Aug 5, 2016 03:27
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Wrt. folk etymologies, guns that are made only to wound, and stuff; many teachers, drill sergeants, profs etc. don't know poo poo. Eg. my religious education teacher told the class how the medieval warfare was clean and fair, because the knights were Christians. 
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Aug 5, 2016 04:06
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Drill instructors are the single biggest source of "the Geneva Conventions prohibit using .50 cals against people, but you can shoot their uniform" type bullshit in existence.
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Aug 5, 2016 04:13
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I'm always amazed at the billshit about guns some soldiers will spout with an air of absolute confidence. It's fine that they don't know. It's a tool that is part of their job. I don't expect my cab driver to be a master mechanic. But hoo boy God help you if some 19 year old lance corporal digs in and insists that .50 bmg will tear off a mans arm with a near miss because by God he saw that poo poo in falluja and what do you know civilian Edit : still not as good as the time my wife's estranged aunt showed up at thanksgiving. I'd never met her in six years of marriage and, upon learning I "was interested in German history" proceeded to talk my ear off about how hitler lived in Chile after the war. Her coworkers mom was from there you see and she was a housekeeper for his half Chilean son. Cyrano4747 fucked around with this message at 06:34 on Aug 5, 2016 |
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Aug 5, 2016 06:30
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