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I'm glad they noticed that, then! KotE was awful.
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Aug 5, 2016 18:21
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I don't really know how you extensively rework something whose core conceit is so fundamentally bad (our vampires are special and magical because they're Of the East right in the title). Maybe just quietly rename and republish VtM20 rules?
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Aug 5, 2016 19:08
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Chernobyl Peace Prize posted:I don't really know how you extensively rework something whose core conceit is so fundamentally bad (our vampires are special and magical because they're Of the East right in the title). Maybe just quietly rename and republish VtM20 rules? How about Kindred of the Ebony Kingdom?
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Aug 5, 2016 19:14
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Chernobyl Peace Prize posted:I don't really know how you extensively rework something whose core conceit is so fundamentally bad (our vampires are special and magical because they're Of the East right in the title). Maybe just quietly rename and republish VtM20 rules? It's been a constant observation that the Kuei-Jin are a lot like Risen, so somewhat more agnostic take on the setting might simply make them into corpses reanimated by ghosts that had been sent to hell, with magical powers based on balancing passion with control and keeping your evil self in check. (You could in fact flavour it wholly in western philosophy; the five paths are Id, Superego, Ego/Man, Animal, and Übermensch.) But I believe almost the entire appeal of KOTE is the pop-cultural tourism of East/South-East Asia, so I suspect they'll just open up playing Kuei-Jin to non-Asians and mumble something about magical influences concentrated in Asia that cause Kuei-Jin to arise from dead corpses more in East/South-East Asia than anywhere else in the world.
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Aug 5, 2016 19:27
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citybeatnik posted:How about Kindred of the Ebony Kingdom? That was good though. Well, fluff-wise, it's mechanics were completely borked (Aye and Orun didn't work well at all, for a start). It probably got a couple things wrong, but it was trying really hard to show Africa as a huge continent full of different cultures without going into "Darkest Afreeca" nonsense. Always wanted to run a game of Ebony Kingdom, but never got players interested in it (we're all white boys).
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Aug 5, 2016 19:36
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Chernobyl Peace Prize posted:I don't really know how you extensively rework something whose core conceit is so fundamentally bad (our vampires are special and magical because they're Of the East right in the title). Maybe just quietly rename and republish VtM20 rules? Yeah, why have them be special and magical easterners when they can be special and magical middle easterners cursed by god himself. There's clearly more than enough room in the world of darkness for two groups of beings with an aversion to sunlight and a hunger for life.
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Aug 5, 2016 19:47
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Just go the Requiem route and add even more Vampire species to muddle the waters.
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Aug 5, 2016 19:50
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I think what KotE did right - amidst a sea of doing things wrong - was introducing the idea that there was another, different kind of vampire that existed outside of the Cainite lore. The fact that it was grounded in the idea that Asia or Asians were so spiritually different from Westerners that they died differently was kind of problematic but the basic idea was sound. Immediately divorcing from the idea that only one cultural group of people can become Splat Monster #121 for biospiritual reasons is probably a strong move. If you want to say that your Asian vampires use the same rules but have slightly different parameters, or arise from a geo-cultural specific ritual or resource, go nuts, but you'd have to be very careful with the latter.
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Aug 6, 2016 01:01
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Mendrian posted:I think what KotE did right - amidst a sea of doing things wrong - was introducing the idea that there was another, different kind of vampire that existed outside of the Cainite lore. The fact that it was grounded in the idea that Asia or Asians were so spiritually different from Westerners that they died differently was kind of problematic but the basic idea was sound. Immediately divorcing from the idea that only one cultural group of people can become Splat Monster #121 for biospiritual reasons is probably a strong move. If you want to say that your Asian vampires use the same rules but have slightly different parameters, or arise from a geo-cultural specific ritual or resource, go nuts, but you'd have to be very careful with the latter. Right, but didn't Reckoning already "solve" that problem by essentially stating "vampires are not literally Christian monsters" and such? Like, the issue "Cainite lore" had was just that - it gave all vampires a single starting point in a biblical figure and then stated that this was actually Objectively True, and there was pretty much no actual mystery to it at all.
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Aug 6, 2016 01:06
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ProfessorCirno posted:Right, but didn't Reckoning already "solve" that problem by essentially stating "vampires are not literally Christian monsters" and such? If it did, it was lying. oWoD has always been an explicitly Judeo-Christian setting.
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Aug 6, 2016 02:28
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unseenlibrarian posted:Apparently Geist 2nd was announced at Gencon, hopefully to be less of a mess. (Even if it's a mess I have a dumb soft spot for.) As long as they keep the font and layout they're 90% of the way to a good game
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Aug 6, 2016 04:46
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unseenlibrarian posted:I hope this mean that Deviant's official haven/sanctum/hollow equivalent is "Van", where you spend points to trick out your ride and travel from town to town in it.
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Aug 6, 2016 04:49
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Mors Rattus posted:If it did, it was lying. oWoD has always been an explicitly Judeo-Christian setting. Well, except for Ascension, Apocalypse, or Dreaming, or any of the Asian bubble games. Vampire has always been Judeo-Christian, but that never meshed very well with the other games and some days it was more obvious than others.
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Aug 6, 2016 05:04
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Soonmot posted:YESSSSS!!! Our very own gimpinblack
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Aug 6, 2016 05:59
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Yawgmoth posted:How many dots is it to get a wizard painted on the side? It had goddamned well better come with a wizard on the side or it isn't worth dots.
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Aug 6, 2016 06:26
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Mors Rattus posted:If it did, it was lying. oWoD has always been an explicitly Judeo-Christian setting. My brain said "Requiem," my fingers typed "Reckoning." Meant to say nVampire solved that issue.
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Aug 6, 2016 06:28
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ProfessorCirno posted:My brain said "Requiem," my fingers typed "Reckoning." Meant to say nVampire solved that issue. Ah. Yeah, nWoD is an existentialist setting.
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Aug 6, 2016 06:41
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Gen Con Brochure posted:The Crossover Chronicle
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Aug 6, 2016 17:08
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Hmm, making that its own book probably us there best way to handle that. I also wonder if this is a bit of an admission that Beast is awful at handling cross overs.
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Aug 6, 2016 17:18
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Well at least a setting is a better idea then a crossover splat. This is going to end terribly, isn't it?
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Aug 6, 2016 17:19
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Luminous Obscurity posted:Also, Deviant's official title is Deviant: the Renegades. It better let me be a goddamn Kamen Rider! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OTzdpMbGHww
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Aug 6, 2016 18:38
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This might be a stupid question, but why does that need special rules? Isn't nWoD already built around a shared core that makes all the splats fundamentally compatible?
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Aug 6, 2016 18:39
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Terrorforge posted:This might be a stupid question, but why does that need special rules? Isn't nWoD already built around a shared core that makes all the splats fundamentally compatible? It works, but it doesn't work particularly well. A book with advice on how to keep different splats mechanically distinct without overshadowing anyone and how to mix all the strange secret societies without having the setting turn into complete nonsense would be useful.
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Aug 6, 2016 18:48
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There are also a few places where weird mechanics questions arise, like werewolf packs (which have pretty hefty mechanical relevance) and Promethean throngs (slightly less so).
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Aug 6, 2016 19:03
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It seems like they plan to focus more on helping you run an interconnected world where, say, mages are actually familiar with how werewolves work rather than largely existing in their own bubbles. Maybe on having a "hidden supernatural world" fantasy instead of having a bunch of unconnected hidden worlds?
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Aug 6, 2016 19:23
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OPP just finished a dedicated Dark Eras panel. Rumor is they announced Dark Eras 2.
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Aug 6, 2016 19:32
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Luminous Obscurity posted:OPP just finished a dedicated Dark Eras panel. Rumor is they announced Dark Eras 2. Then there's a chance for Devil in the White City Requiem!
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Aug 6, 2016 19:36
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I don't remember exactly whose baby Innocents during the Blitz was, but I've been waiting on that one for years and I'm hoping it's on the table again.
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Aug 6, 2016 20:04
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In my dreams, I convince them to do Forsaken in 19th century Quebec.
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Aug 6, 2016 21:54
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Yawgmoth posted:How many dots is it to get a wizard painted on the side?
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Aug 7, 2016 06:31
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I'm thinking of undertaking some light homebrew action to run a Fallout game thru the ST system (nWoD core, I'm thinking). The only things in need of significant tweaking are the skills on offer - what are the thread's thoughts on what should be swapped out and what might serve to replace on the sheet? Eg, there wouldn't be any need for an occult skill.
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Aug 7, 2016 09:40
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Basic Chunnel posted:I'm thinking of undertaking some light homebrew action to run a Fallout game thru the ST system (nWoD core, I'm thinking). The only things in need of significant tweaking are the skills on offer - what are the thread's thoughts on what should be swapped out and what might serve to replace on the sheet? Eg, there wouldn't be any need for an occult skill. One of the ST system's strengths is that it's a very generic system, and every skill except Occult is pretty much analogous to one or more skills in Fallout. In fact, no skills really come to mind as missing and there are more skills in the ST system than in the J.E. Sawyer Fallout RPG. You might at best be able to split up some of the broader ST skills into narrower ones, like separating Traps/Explosives from Weaponry. However I think it might be thematically appropriate to replace Occult with a combination of "Pre-War Knowledge" and "Wasteland Lore"; the skill of know about all the weird poo poo that goes around, like rumoured mutant creatures, hidden pre-war bunkers, and the alike.
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Aug 7, 2016 10:05
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Basic Chunnel posted:I'm thinking of undertaking some light homebrew action to run a Fallout game thru the ST system (nWoD core, I'm thinking). The only things in need of significant tweaking are the skills on offer - what are the thread's thoughts on what should be swapped out and what might serve to replace on the sheet? Eg, there wouldn't be any need for an occult skill. Depending on how closely you want to match the games, you might want to make Explosives and Energy Weapons skills of their own, and possibly fold Computer into Science. Plus you'd probably want some custom Merits, eg power armor training. Other than that I think it's mostly a matter of considering how the skills behave differently in the wasteland. How much Old World history does Academics include? What counts as an animal for Animal Ken? Does Drive apply to all kinds of vehicles (including Brahmin-drawn carriages?) and can people without dots drive at all? I'd also strongly consider using the CofD model of Integrity over original nWoD Morality, especially since wastelanders are likely to have vastly different breaking points from coddled 21st century smoothskins. Or just throw the system out altogether if you'd rather focus on lootnshoot than the horrors of the post-apocalypse.
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Aug 7, 2016 10:19
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Terrorforge posted:I'd also strongly consider using the CofD model of Integrity over original nWoD Morality, especially since wastelanders are likely to have vastly different breaking points from coddled 21st century smoothskins. Or just throw the system out altogether if you'd rather focus on lootnshoot than the horrors of the post-apocalypse. I recommend using Unknown Armies' Stress Gauges if you're planning to replace Morality.
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Aug 7, 2016 10:47
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Kurieg posted:They're apparently looking into making new KOTE books too. I can't seem to find this mentioned anywhere else yet; does someone have a link to OP stuff mentioning KotE? Or is it all just word of mouth right now?
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Aug 7, 2016 13:21
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One of our darker days crew was at the panel at Gencon and they mentioned it. And by looking into I mean "They're easily a year out from working on them and they're not sure if it's even possible to make them non-problematic"
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Aug 7, 2016 16:50
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DA:20 laid a little of the groundwork by introducing more vampires of non-Cainite origin. Now it wouldn't be just Cainites and Inscrutable Foreigners With Special Souls.
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Aug 7, 2016 17:46
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I know I keep saying it, but the Special Souls thing isn't true. It's literally like Wraith. It's the Africans that have special Four-Part souls and the Egyptians with Five. Although the way these additional soul parts kinda work like existing backgrounds sort-of implies it's all a matter of perception and not metaphysical truth. Edit: there's plenty of racist poo poo in Kindred of the East without bringing up over and over again the one thing that isn't true.
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Aug 7, 2016 19:07
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If you want the quickest go-to for why KotE is awful, it's probably this:  GHOST-FLAME KANJI Yeah they made this up entirely.
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Aug 7, 2016 19:37
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Kindred of the East is full of good material. Like, really good material. The main problem with updating it is that the bad part of it is, like... the skeleton. The core. I literally have no idea how they could design around it, although I'd love to see how they plan to try.
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Aug 7, 2016 20:03
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