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Probably China, they have a huge territory, a fantastically terrible terrain in a lot of it and the tech and industrial base to make it happen.
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Aug 7, 2016 12:59
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Yeah, Haida and China, probably. But we'll probably have the best aircraft carriers.
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Aug 7, 2016 18:25
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Empress Theonora posted:Yeah, Haida and China, probably. But we'll probably have the best aircraft carriers. It's still kinda crazy how much better the communes navy is than any previous iteration of Byzantium.
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Aug 7, 2016 18:30
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Rumda posted:It's still kinda crazy how much better the communes navy is than any previous iteration of Byzantium. Do not conspire to restore the ineffectuality of Mare Nostrum.
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Aug 7, 2016 19:06
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Empress Theonora posted:Yeah, Haida and China, probably. But we'll probably have the best aircraft carriers. Is that aircraft carrier boot shaped? 
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Aug 7, 2016 20:07
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I'd suggest Haida, China's already basically invincible just how they are so I don't think they need even more advantages on top of it.
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Aug 7, 2016 20:25
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China needs to be good at something. Actually, let's talk about China's military in general, since I'm not really sure what the best angle for it is. After centuries of being almost entirely a land power, with their navy lagging behind (remember that EU4 mod vote?), in the V2 lategame (and moving into HoI 4) their main enemy is suddenly Japan. And the mod is being set up such that the Allies (Japan's liberal faction) and China are basically guaranteed to have a war, while their relation to the struggle between communism and fascism in Europe is more of a wildcard. So, let's throw some ideas about China's military posture out there. The won their war with Japan in the V2 lategame, but mostly by defeating Japanese expeditionary armies in the Middle East and Africa-- Japan proper was never threatened.
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Aug 7, 2016 20:53
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In that case you'd think they'd be working on their force projection - naval arms race and bombers, perhaps (very roughly) analogous to the relationship between Germany and Britain from 1900-45.
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Aug 7, 2016 21:15
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Considering China's size and economy, any project they throw their weight behind should be possible to perform, so I think it would make sense that the reason their navy is lagging behind isn't the inability to build one, but the inability to reach consensus on pursuing a modern naval strategy. Maybe Chinese industrialists were so successful in capturing the Pangalist government, that a small clique of arms producers and heavy industry magnates controls their appropriation process and they jealously guard that power against any newcomer. This cabal aggressively attacks and undermines anyone that tries to break apart their monopolies and change the current system or even tries to deliver an economic challenge to them. The huge size of the military and the amount of arms and ammunition it consumes means that they are heavily invested in the status quo where nearly the entirety of the budget is under their control, so any calls for maritime expansion is a direct attack against them, as it would reduce their income and influence. That's why the Chinese navy is a sorry lot that has to make do with outdated equipment, is extremely underfunded and understaffed and unable to take on any other Great Power. Additionally, thanks to the primacy of the army, it is seen as a dead end for careers and only people that are completely subservient to the interest of that small elite of weapons manufacturers have any chance of rising through the ranks. So the reason why the Chinese navy is a sham is institutional and a result of a captured government that is biased against the navy.
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Aug 7, 2016 21:25
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Here's an aircraft tech team for the Imperium Galliarum. (I figure this is probably a pre-Valeria corporation, and that Valeria is working with existing business interests like Mussolini & Fiat, Hitler & Krupp, etc.) Alikchi fucked around with this message at 23:59 on Aug 7, 2016 |
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Aug 7, 2016 23:57
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I'm working on OOBs now, and I've realized something else the thread can contribute: Ship names! I'm doing all of Byzantium's by hand, but I know that I'll burn out if I try to do it for every country. So let's save the rest of the world from having boring ship names! For extra points, separate them into themed names for destroyers, cruisers, battleships, carriers, and submarines. Although that level of granular detail probably isn't necessary for most nations, really.
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Aug 8, 2016 00:08
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Imperium Gallium: They're appropriating the mantle of Rome, it stands to reason they'd apply it. Battleships: Julius Caesar Valeria Pompey Augustus Constantine Hadrian Emperors/Empresses, preferably successful ones. Submarines: Gaius Cassius Longinus Marcus Junius Brutus Decimus Junius Brutus Albinus Servius Supulcus Galba Backstabbers and assassins of antiquity, such as those who killed Julius Caesar above. Aircraft carriers: Roma Lutetia Parisorum Lugdunum Alesia Bibracte Nemasus Arelate Cities, particularly those established by the Romans in IG territory. Cruisers: Gladius Pugio Spatha Hasta Pilum Arcus Cheiroballistra Dolabra Falx Plumbata Scutum Parma Weapons of various kinds. Destroyers: Latin animal names? Running out of ideas.
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Aug 8, 2016 00:48
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AJ_Impy posted:Destroyers: Gods? Jupiter, Mars, Neptune, Minerva (though with the Athens Commune, maybe not her), that sort of thing? I guess it depends on the religious policy of the Imperium, which I'm pretty curious about.
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Aug 8, 2016 01:03
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Either cruisers or destroyers could be Roman generals/statesmen. We know the names of a lot of those. Possibly make cruisers generals and destroyers weapons.
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Aug 8, 2016 01:19
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Yeah, the thing with destroyer names is that you need like twenty billion of them. Lord Cyrahzax posted:Gods? Jupiter, Mars, Neptune, Minerva (though with the Athens Commune, maybe not her), that sort of thing? I guess it depends on the religious policy of the Imperium, which I'm pretty curious about. The state of the world will get into this a bit, but the jist of it is that because the Gallican Church of France was basically the personal property of the kings, it had very weak independent institutions, so Valeria was very easily able to seize control of it after King Louis fled. Since the Gallican Church split from the Orthodox Church before the Council of Smyrna, Valeria II's still a saint, living saints are still theoretically allowed, etc. None of that stuff really mattered to modern Gallicans, since the various Gallican churches of Europe tended not to care about enforcing doctrinal uniformity, but it meant that a nucleus of things like the Valerian Order, the Order of the Sainted Emperors, and the like were preserved in the Gallican world long after they'd been crushed within Orthodoxy by Smyrna. They were obscure and neglected, but they were there. Valeria (the first one, the one who got shot) renewed and co-opted them, and with the royally appointed bishops and patriarchs are replaced with her people, they've ascended to the pinnacle of the church. The Orthodox and Catholic minorities in France have fiercely resisted this. Valeria Postuma has vague ambitions to go even further and get rid of all of this Jesus business and get right to the point, but that's far, far on the backburner. Naming Gallic ships after gods and goddesses might be a bit of a problem, anyway, since I already used that for Byzantium's battleships (since we have kind of a classical antiquity motif going on-- flag, owls, Athena, etc.)
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Aug 8, 2016 02:01
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Empress Theonora posted:Naming Gallic ships after gods and goddesses might be a bit of a problem, anyway, since I already used that for Byzantium's battleships (since we have kind of a classical antiquity motif going on-- flag, owls, Athena, etc.) Thought Byzantium would go with their Greek names honestly, and it would be funny to see Greek vs Latin in ship form. But with that religious info, I think saints, especially Gallo-Roman ones, may be a good choice for destroyers, especially since there's a long list of them on Wikipedia. Things like Austremonius, Exuperius, Fibicius, Quinidius, et cetera, going with the cool sounding but ultimately shallow aesthetics of fascism. Giving Gallo-Roman saints like these guys some limelight also helps reinforce the Imperium's claim to be a legitimate Rome, along with a spiritual anchor that would still appeal to a good number of Imperial Christians.
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Aug 8, 2016 02:22
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Lord Cyrahzax posted:Thought Byzantium would go with their Greek names honestly, and it would be funny to see Greek vs Latin in ship form. That's a good point, too, so just to limit things and keep a tighter theme I made all of our battleship names Greek names for deities. EDIT: Okay, here's what I'm going for for IG's ship names: Submarines: Assassins, Black Chamber operatives, other sneaky sorts. Destroyers: People from Roman history other than emperors, including generals, statesmen, imperial consorts, usurpers deemed virtuous for one reason or another, Gallo-Roman saints, etc. (Best to cast a wide net with these) Cruisers: Weapons and equipment. Battleships: Roman and Gallic emperors and empresses regnant. Carriers: Valeria, and her thousand faces. Empress Theonora fucked around with this message at 02:57 on Aug 8, 2016 |
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Aug 8, 2016 02:36
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Empress Theonora posted:Carriers: Valeria, and her thousand faces. "Sir, we spotted the Valeria!" "Which one?"
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Aug 8, 2016 03:04
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Lord Cyrahzax posted:Thought Byzantium would go with their Greek names honestly, and it would be funny to see Greek vs Latin in ship form. Isn't Latin still a state language of Byzantium?
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Aug 8, 2016 03:25
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Adding a minister here: Mass Assault Theorist Jagjit Johar is a controversial but undoubtedly effective figure in the Marathan military. Many call him a butcher, but there is no denying that no one knows how to use the vast manpower of the Marathas better than him. Seeing that a great deal of Marathan industry was destroyed during the innumerable wars of the last century, Johar has come to believe that the greatest weapon of the Marathas is the Marathan soldier, deployed en masse and with war cry on their lips. Now with new armored vehicles and mechanized infantry added to his command, Johor hopes to lead the Marathas to victory over their enemies, and to repay the Chinese tenfold for the destruction they caused.
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Aug 8, 2016 06:42
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Empress Theonora posted:That's a good point, too, so just to limit things and keep a tighter theme I made all of our battleship names Greek names for deities. quote:Submarines: Assassins, Black Chamber operatives, other sneaky sorts. quote:Cruisers: Weapons and equipment. Pugio Gladius Pila Sagitarii Ballista Plumbata Scutum Galea quote:Valeria, and her thousand faces. Valeria Herculea Valeria Romana Valeria Exsuperatoria Valeria Amazona Valeria Invicta Valeria Domina Noster Valeria Felix Valeria Pia
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Aug 8, 2016 13:35
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Lord Cyrahzax posted:Thought Byzantium would go with their Greek names honestly, and it would be funny to see Greek vs Latin in ship form. Empress Theonora posted:That's a good point, too, so just to limit things and keep a tighter theme I made all of our battleship names Greek names for deities. Wait wait wait. Does this mean that it's the drat Gallicum who have Mars-Class battlecrusers? Edit: Sorry, I misread this and the conversation. I say we should have ship classes named after the Greek version of the gods except Ares, who is replaced with Mars. Or just have the IG have at least one ship named Mars for the purpose of snubbing the Socialists. Edit Again: I feel I should explain more because saying that seems quite a bit presumptuous. I'd say that based on how close my in-character senatorial family has been to the military (inseparably glued to it, pretty much) that they should have something named after them. The original idea I had when I overlooked your response to the IG suggestion is that the IG beat them to the punch, probably vexing my submitted minister, if he ends up being used, to no end. Now that I know what the actual direction of things is, I say that I want a Mars-class ship for the sake of the in-joke, which of course is: 1. The Mars Family has steadfastly refused to change it's name or self-aggrandizing habits while still somehow remaining under the revolutionary/anti-romanization radar. 2. It should be Ares, but nobody likes him. NewMars fucked around with this message at 15:23 on Aug 8, 2016 |
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Aug 8, 2016 15:01
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Senatorial families and the like are mostly Byzantine destroyer names, since I needed like a zillion of them and decided to use that as a whirlwind tour of 855 years of Byzantine history.
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Aug 8, 2016 19:47
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Senatorial families, Byzantine peoples' heroes, famous soldiers, workers, union leaders...
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Aug 8, 2016 20:17
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Redeye Flight posted:union leaders... Only somewhat ironically suggesting using the names of actual unions. DD Confederation of Shipbuilding and Engineering Union Local (CSEU) #38! Actually I think they'd use a famous local union who's number matched the ships number, or if the docks unions matches whatever ship number theyre building For the most part because i dont think theyll hit the number of the union that ran the famed Athens Cement Works. Though realistically I can see unions used for names of non combat support ships or the merchant marine. Edit: Have destroyers named after the specific union of the navy's combat sailor's union that runs the ship. (Or would that be more appropriate for a syndie country in KaiserReich?) Communist Zombie fucked around with this message at 21:25 on Aug 8, 2016 |
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Aug 8, 2016 21:15
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Probably more appropriate for a Kaiserreich syndicalist nation, Byzantium still seems to have a central government et al, although I'll admit I'm not entirely sure how the communal republic is supposed to work/what day to day life in the Commune looks like.
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Aug 8, 2016 22:14
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Flesnolk posted:Probably more appropriate for a Kaiserreich syndicalist nation, Byzantium still seems to have a central government et al, although I'll admit I'm not entirely sure how the communal republic is supposed to work/what day to day life in the Commune looks like. Eh, isn't the point of syndicalism to be pipe dream communism? It really doesn't matter how it works, only that it is Good and Better.
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Aug 8, 2016 22:56
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I'm still allowed to ask how things work in Rince's setting. :P
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Aug 8, 2016 23:11
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Empress Theonora posted:Senatorial families and the like are mostly Byzantine destroyer names, since I needed like a zillion of them and decided to use that as a whirlwind tour of 855 years of Byzantine history. Did anything get named after political parties? I just want to know if we'll ever see the UNITAS get sunk.
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Aug 9, 2016 06:05
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Sounds doable in a pinch but potentially a bit silly. Though speaking of, I'm going to work on some more ministers, maybe some companies and such, but Mars: since your family of characters has been so military over the course of the LP, why not make one a military theorist or army chief? Only generals are off limits apparently.
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Aug 9, 2016 06:33
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Empress Theonora posted:Senatorial families and the like are mostly Byzantine destroyer names, since I needed like a zillion of them and decided to use that as a whirlwind tour of 855 years of Byzantine history. Please tell me this mean there's the possibility for a BCS Scruffles.
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Aug 9, 2016 07:11
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ZiegeDame posted:Please tell me this mean there's the possibility for a BCS Scruffles. Ridiculous. I mean, you can't just have one. There has to be a ship for every scruffles of such a proud and dignified line. Flesnolk posted:Sounds doable in a pinch but potentially a bit silly. Though speaking of, I'm going to work on some more ministers, maybe some companies and such, but Mars: since your family of characters has been so military over the course of the LP, why not make one a military theorist or army chief? Only generals are off limits apparently. I've been having trouble because I don't own the game and the wiki is so very, very bad. I suppose the minister I submitted would be an ideological crusader? Possibly a socialist revolutionary or even a Prince of Terror. Since it's a bit better now and I have a better idea of what to do, I think I'll make a Military Theorist. Military Theorist  Name: Sofia Mars Quote: "Making the Mediterranean into a Communal lake is a useless proposition when to our north twin empires reach southwards overland. If we are to survive the next Great War we must solidify a land-based solution to our problems. And yet... the cost of another long, slow war of trench fighting in the Alps, Balkans and Caucasus would be unthinkable. No, we must design a doctrine in which speed and power are paramount if we are to see Paris and Moscow, not Byzantion and Rome, burn without losing an entire generation to the horrors of the front line. Again." Bio: Born to the Hellenic branch of the Mars line, Sofia was a distinguished alumna of the Spartan Military Academy, noted for her innovative ideas on incorporating armored vehicles into military units not as a spacer, but as a spearpoint for a sustained advance. Unlike the Roman branch, so far, there has been little notable controversy or schisming along ideological lines in her branch, given that those elements moved back to Rome at the first chance. This is helped in the present by her own preference for being a backroom operator and a predisposition towards matters of military planning, rather than militant politics. Still, of what she has shown to the public, it has been made clear that she believes in the inevitability of war with the Commune's northern neighbors and the paramount need for preparing for oncoming war. Suggested Trait: Blitzkreig Theorist, Mobile Warfare Expert or Military Theorist. Edit: I realize it goes a bit against our current focus as a naval power, but I feel it could synchronize well with the whole thing Rincewind explained a while back about the Byzantines needing to rebuild the army corps, in that she is supposed to represent the new wave of officers that could revitalize the military alongside the dramatic move away from the trench warfare that cost the commune so much. NewMars fucked around with this message at 19:54 on Aug 9, 2016 |
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Aug 9, 2016 11:23
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Even though we've already passed this time period by almost a century in game I cant help but feel these are incredibly relevant to this LP 150-year-old images reveal what Japanese artists once thought about exotic American visitors   "People of the barbarian nations – Americans" 
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Aug 9, 2016 17:53
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It occurs to me; in such a pluralistic empire where saying "nationalism" would make your grandmother faint, wouldn't some form of mutated Army Latin make an solid national? After all, Latin's the only language taught in schools not associated with some group (I dunno, wouldn't Arabic be replaced by Turkish now? Or not)! Strip any pretensions of word or sentence order out, simplify endings by adding a standard set of prefixes based on old prepositions to complement them, stuff it full of Chinese/Greek/Turkish/more Chinese/Arabic/more Greek/Italian/Ayiti/even more Chinese loan roots, write it with the Greek alphabet, and you're set! It's that simple
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Aug 10, 2016 22:46
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Falconier111 posted:write it with the Greek alphabet Arrest this person!
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Aug 10, 2016 22:54
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Frionnel posted:Arrest this person!  Seriously, though, wouldn't the Greek alphabet be universal for everything in Byzantium? What else would they use?
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Aug 11, 2016 04:21
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NewMars posted:Ridiculous. I mean, you can't just have one. There has to be a ship for every scruffles of such a proud and dignified line. Old folk tale has it that there truly was only one Senator Scruffles, and just appeared under a new guise every generation. Scruffles did that to help the old Romans and eventual Byzantines along the way to the enlightened rule they currently have, and to truly find the answer to the age-old question: who is a good boy? There are at least six children's books that tell this story. Maybe a whole series of them, teaching young Byzantine kids about history.
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Aug 11, 2016 05:46
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StrifeHira posted:
It is basically Wishbone, but using the magical genetic memory of the Scruffles Lineages.
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Aug 11, 2016 06:13
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GSD posted:It is basically Wishbone, but using the magical genetic memory of the Scruffles Lineages. Would the senatorial families be the same essential character in every book? With the Cyrahzaxes playing the mean old man children's villain, of course. NewMars fucked around with this message at 07:55 on Aug 11, 2016 |
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Aug 11, 2016 06:57
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Falconier111 posted:
In Communal Byzantium? Where the whole is no greater than the sum of its parts? I guess every smaller commune which makes part of The Commune use their local set of scripts. In the much more Catholic Italy they probably use the Latin alphabet, in Turkish-majority Anatolia they probably use the Arabic alphabet (which, due to the accepted stance on Arabic script in Byzantium, probably is still in use for the Turkish language) while in the long-since Orthodox parts of the Balkans/Bulgaria they've probably left the Cyrillic script and gone over to using the Greek alphabet. The way the senate used to scream Christ and Rome for so long I would be surprised if they've kept to Cyrillic outside of the once-everything-but-persecuted Bogomilists. As for Byzantium itself it likely uses Greek in all official matters of the state, which every learnt citizen of Byzantium should be able to read. Luhood fucked around with this message at 16:52 on Aug 11, 2016 |
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Aug 11, 2016 15:33
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