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I agree that unlike Batman v Superman, Suicide Squad is salvageable with just a few cuts and additions. For the Arkham scene with Quinzel and the Joker, instead of a violent breakout, Quinzel signs off on his release. The Joker becomes a legally free man instead of a fugitive, which makes the Joker's subsequent scenes, such as in the nightclub, more plausible. Instead of pitching the Squad as a counter-weapon to superhumans, pitch them as a sort of Mission Impossible-esque team, like they are in the original comics. Few of the Squaddies are a match for superhumans. Remove the Joker's non-flashback scenes. They go nowhere. Waller does not consider the Enchantress for the Squad because she is too mysterious and volatile. Instead, Enchantress escapes from some government vault or lab. Waller and her Squad are thus seen as problem solvers, not problem makers, by the end of the movie. Cut the scene where Waller meets with Bruce Wayne. Make Belle Reve a sort of Gitmo-like prison, where regular US laws don't apply, which would make it easier for Waller to disguise the nature of the Squad's activities and fabricate plausible reasons for their early release. None of the Squaddies are serving life sentences and none of them are high-profile criminals, which means fewer awkward questions when they are released. Fewer pop songs. Most don't match the tone.
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Aug 9, 2016 17:52
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Suicide Squad: Diablo, no - we will not let you go!
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Aug 9, 2016 18:15
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Look, the poo poo actual drug cartel leaders get away with is unbelievable- the Joker doing the same drat thing is utterly understandable.
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Aug 9, 2016 18:25
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Burkion posted:Look, the poo poo actual drug cartel leaders get away with is unbelievable- the Joker doing the same drat thing is utterly understandable.
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Aug 9, 2016 18:27
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Kurzon posted:Well, this takes place far from the Mexican border. If you don't think the equivalent in America can get away with the same poo poo, I don't know what to tell you
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Aug 9, 2016 18:34
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Kurzon posted:Well, this takes place far from the Mexican border. Er, you do know really powerful crime leaders are able to pull off all kind of poo poo regardless the country, right? Speaking of Leto's Joker IGN posted:We spoke to Leto while he was doing the promotion rounds for Suicide Squad, and asked what his version of the super-villain would make of Superman. http://www.ign.com/articles/2016/08/09/jared-leto-says-his-joker-would-enjoy-messing-with-superman If there's a reason I'd love to see all the deleted scenes is to see more of Leto's Joker, he really nailed the part.
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Aug 9, 2016 18:35
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Burkion posted:If you don't think the equivalent in America can get away with the same poo poo, I don't know what to tell you Kurzon fucked around with this message at 18:50 on Aug 9, 2016 |
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Aug 9, 2016 18:47
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I'm not going to get into a discussion of what's plausible in the real world, but aren't famous criminals operating openly a fairly common thing in depictions of Gotham, due to how completely corrupt the police are?
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Aug 9, 2016 18:53
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Kurzon posted:The Adam West Joker had more sense than Leto Joker. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QS1RTKVh6YE
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Aug 9, 2016 18:55
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It seems like such a massive staple of the Batman mythos that it is odd to complain about. Doesn't the Penguin run a club exactly like that in the comics? Plus that made up Fish lady in Gotham?
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Aug 9, 2016 18:57
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Kurzon posted:I don't know what you were talking about specifically. But some things the Joker does in this movie are still too implausible. Like hanging out in a nightclub while a fugitive in front of dozens of drunk partygoers who could ruin him with one phone call to the cops (fun fact: criminals rat each other out all the time). I've read books on the New York Mafia and the gangsters never discussed crimes in bars or clubs because the FBI had them all bugged. John Gotti and Sammy the Bull would discuss crimes on the sidewalk where the FBI couldn't eavesdrop. But instead Joker is hiding in plain sight and he murders a gangster. Now I know this is a silly superhero story but this is stretching reality a little too far. Even children know that breaking out of prison doesn't void one's conviction. The Adam West Joker had more sense than Leto Joker. Putting aside we're talking about the loving Joker here. The Ultimate Cut of BvS already showed that the GCPD isn't exactly the most efficient police force in the world and I doubt there are people willing to drop the dime on the Joker around.
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Aug 9, 2016 18:57
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In the Adam West show and the Silver Age comics, the police department was completely honest and Batman and Robin were lawfully deputized agents. The cops were reasonably competent too: they could deal with regular criminals, but fiendish masterminds like the Penguin and the Riddler could only be countered by the Dynamic Duo. The Joker had to resort to brilliant ruses, such as disguising himself as another type of clown:
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Aug 9, 2016 18:59
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Kurzon posted:I don't know what you were talking about specifically. But some things the Joker does in this movie are still too implausible. Like hanging out in a nightclub while a fugitive in front of dozens of drunk partygoers who could ruin him with one phone call to the cops (fun fact: criminals rat each other out all the time). I've read books on the New York Mafia and the gangsters never discussed crimes in bars or clubs because the FBI had them all bugged. John Gotti and Sammy the Bull would discuss crimes on the sidewalk where the FBI couldn't eavesdrop. But instead Joker is hiding in plain sight and he murders a gangster. Now I know this is a silly superhero story but this is stretching reality a little too far. Even children know that breaking out of prison doesn't void one's conviction. The Adam West Joker had more sense than Leto Joker. This is another good example of people ignoring visual information and searching desperately for plot exposition. The imagery of Joker lounging in the club is specifically deployed to show that he's vastly more powerful than a normal mobster.
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Aug 9, 2016 19:00
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Dark_Tzitzimine posted:Putting aside we're talking about the loving Joker here. The Ultimate Cut of BvS already showed that the GCPD isn't exactly the most efficient police force in the world and I doubt there are people willing to drop the dime on the Joker around. Yeah but you see human trafficking is a dime a dozen, that one football game is wholly unique and will never play out like that again. Cops gotta have priorities.
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Aug 9, 2016 19:01
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Kurzon posted:I don't know what you were talking about specifically. But some things the Joker does in this movie are still too implausible. Like hanging out in a nightclub while a fugitive in front of dozens of drunk partygoers who could ruin him with one phone call to the cops (fun fact: criminals rat each other out all the time). I've read books on the New York Mafia and the gangsters never discussed crimes in bars or clubs because the FBI had them all bugged. John Gotti and Sammy the Bull would discuss crimes on the sidewalk where the FBI couldn't eavesdrop. But instead Joker is hiding in plain sight and he murders a gangster. Now I know this is a silly superhero story but this is stretching reality a little too far. Even children know that breaking out of prison doesn't void one's conviction. The Adam West Joker had more sense than Leto Joker.  
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Aug 9, 2016 19:20
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Kurzon posted:I agree that unlike Batman v Superman, Suicide Squad is salvageable with just a few cuts and additions. I see a lot of this lately, or in the case of BvS where they say the extended cut makes the film make more sense. It kind of reminds me of videogames where the game maker puts out a really buggy broken game and then promises that a patch or DLC will fix it, and as we all know thats a super popular way to do things that consumers love.
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Aug 9, 2016 19:29
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I was talking with somebody last night and trying to figure out what the last-minute changes might have been. I had to add June Moon surviving felt so tacked-on it was like another "Duke's alive! He's gonna be okay!" from the G.I. Joe movie. Contradicts what Enchantress had just said which means she lied when she was dying so that.... Flagg would feel bad for a few seconds? My suppositions ---The flashbacks with Deadshot's daughter and Harley's origin are supposed to come after/during a sex scene in the stairwell; when Harley pauses her flashbacks pick back up to the last part of her origin in the released cut, but I suspect that was supposed to be where you really learn who the characters are after Slipknot goes out like a chump. June Moon's flashback was probably originally the opening teaser of the movie or something. ---At some point it was going to be revealed Moon/Enchantress are basically the same person. The alien/witch/whatever it is doesn't overwrite the host's personality, it was all June wanting freedom/power/all the jello pudding in the world. She probably knew exactly what she was looking for in that temple, hence why she pops that jar open instead of behaving like a real archeologist. This is also why she mumbles "Enchantress," "in her sleep," then makes Flagg promise not to rat out whatever The Enchantress did ("I dunno what she did but don't let them take me boo hoo"). This is also why the putties are trying to capture Flagg in every battle---she wants the strategic knowledge in his head but she also wants her boyfriend back. ---The big twist was gonna be Flagg having to realize his beau was evil, hence the line phrasing like "June will never come back," or w/e, originally that was Enchantress basically going "you got played, the woman you loved was never real sucka" --there is probably a version or it was originally planned for several more of the Squaddies at least to die. Probably Croc and Katana, hence why they retained the shot of Harley picking up the Soul Sword. --I suspect nothing plot-relevant was cut out of the Joker's B-Plot; rather it was stripped to bare bones plot so we understand why the Squad don't get their ride out of the city. Originally I think we would have seen a lot more of the classic abusive relationship the characters usually have (and I'm sure from the way it was shot he originally pushes her out of the helicopter). Probably axed completely b/c you can't have domestic abuse in a fun superhero adventure, obviously. --I doubt there was ever a version of the movie that used squibs which is too bad. Maybe they can take a play from the Robert Rodriguez book and add lots of big colorful CGI blood in post for the blue-ray  Incidentally, SMG-senpai is correct that the Joker is portrayed as essentially an all-powerful devil figure in the movie. "It's [Joker's] world Waller is unwisely trying to tap into" as he put it. I suspect in the original version he very strongly repudiates Harley (after she has sex with a guy who has "I am the light, the way" written on his collar!)
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Aug 9, 2016 19:36
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What do you think Lacan would say about trying to discover the lost movie within the movie as part of the 2016 filmgoing experience?
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Aug 9, 2016 19:39
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I dont recall if it was brought up in this thread, but I thought it was funny enough to share anyways: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sa5GDGSTrtI (spoilers, if you're still reading this thread without having watched the film)
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Aug 9, 2016 20:05
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This is awesome. I never saw that episode. I watched that "evolution of the Joker" clip on YouTube and realized that I had also never noticed that Ceasar Romero had face paint over his mustache. Researching it, I learned that he refused to shave it for the part so they just painted it over it. I think Leto should grow a mustache and a beard for the next film if he plays him again. Speaking of that, is it confirmed that Joker is in the solo Batfleck movie? I haven't heard jack poo poo about that film. Are they targeting it for release before JL and the now rumored MoS 2?
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Aug 9, 2016 20:20
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Neurolimal posted:I dont recall if it was brought up in this thread, but I thought it was funny enough to share anyways: their review was bad and they (mostly Jay) should feel bad
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Aug 9, 2016 20:26
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Harime Nui posted:their review was bad and they (mostly Jay) should feel bad They spent a fair amount of the review talking about how the side plot with the Belle Reve guard didn't go anywhere and also how Harley suddenly has a cell phone halfway through the movie which came out of nowhere and if they'd paid attention they'd know that the guard slipped the phone to Harley, which covers both their complaints.
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Aug 9, 2016 20:32
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Neurolimal posted:I dont recall if it was brought up in this thread, but I thought it was funny enough to share anyways: OH good another RLM review hooray yes
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Aug 9, 2016 20:34
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BiggerBoat posted:This is awesome. I never saw that episode. I do love the Romero Joker. He was great at what he needed to be Also I object to not labeling him as a serial killer- just because the dude never got to kill Batman and Robin doesn't mean he didn't try. The Adam West series was fantastic for goofy over the top villains who, if you stopped and looked at their morality, are horrifying. Catwoman, the most morally grey of any Batman villain, who is often times a hero herself, is a blood thirsty murderer whose only way of dealing with Robin, TO GET WITH BATMAN, is to propose killing him painlessly. it's great
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Aug 9, 2016 20:34
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Guy A. Person posted:OH good another RLM review hooray yes It's actually them making a joke about something they missed in the movie that fans brought up, but ok
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Aug 9, 2016 20:35
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Neurolimal posted:It's actually them making a joke about something they missed in the movie that fans brought up, but ok Hoisted by my own petard!
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Aug 9, 2016 20:36
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Hey cool, I had some 60's Batman episodes on tape but I never saw that mask, didn't realize the mask in the TDK opening robbery was a reference to something.
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Aug 9, 2016 20:53
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Electromax posted:Hey cool, I had some 60's Batman episodes on tape but I never saw that mask, didn't realize the mask in the TDK opening robbery was a reference to something. I considered it a reference to The Killing 
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Aug 9, 2016 21:34
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Burkion posted:I do love the Romero Joker. He was great at what he needed to be The great thing about the Adam West Batman show was that as a kid, you could take it perfectly seriously. Everything LOOKED cool in your 7 year old mind. You didn't realize how cheesy all the effects looked or how stupid the plots were. Then, years later, when you watch it as a teen on acid, you can see it through fresh eyes as a comedy. A decade later still, you can view it through a different lens and notice the sexual undertones and starfucking going on, what with all the guest spots. I can't think of a modern show like it all. Kids and adults both like it, stars want to guest and cameo on it, it's cheesy as hell, it's funny, it pretends to take itself seriously but really doesn't...only thing that pops in my head as a modern equivalent is American Idol of all things.
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Aug 9, 2016 22:17
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Wade Wilson posted:El Diablo going all Aztec Fire God and melting a gaping hole in the "brother" was almost worth everything else bad about the character until he just... gives up and says "blow the bomb!" Seemed to me that he basically burned himself out, he fired up to full power but that completely ate up his fuel tank. Every time we ever saw him use his powers before then it was momentary blasts of fire, here he's just fully charged and going full tilt for an extended period of time and it uses up his fuel. Dude needs to work on his cardio 
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Aug 9, 2016 22:46
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Harime Nui posted:I was talking with somebody last night and trying to figure out what the last-minute changes might have been. I had to add June Moon surviving felt so tacked-on it was like another "Duke's alive! He's gonna be okay!" from the G.I. Joe movie. Contradicts what Enchantress had just said which means she lied when she was dying so that.... Flagg would feel bad for a few seconds? On the contrary, it's common imagery from exorcism movies. In the shlock film Transformations (1988) a man infected with an incubus crash-lands in a space prison. The incubus comes from a nightmare and turns him into an alien werewolf serial killer sort of thing. But the prison doctor falls in love with him, and gives a little speech about how she's not afraid of the demon because we'll stick together and cure it with the power of love or something. But in the end she realizes that he genuinely is a horrible monster, and simply immolates him with a flamethrower. As she walks away, the man crawls out of the goopy ashes. The point is that true love is this violent sort of love where you must be ready destroy the object of your affection. Flagg was held back by his feelings of guilt over working with Waller and whatever, to the point that he let Enchantress escape. In a way, he wanted this crisis to happen so that they could be brought together. That's what he has to overcome.
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Aug 9, 2016 23:52
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My favorite aspect of Suicide Squad was its devotion to being as absolutely deadpan and anti-climactic as possible. Like last year's Green Room, what we have here is an action movie which is almost pretentiously devoted to undermining any attempt to extract enjoyment from the violence, per se. Now, we inevitably ask, "If the violence is un-engaging, then what else could there possibly be?" My answer is, the ensemble, obviously. But then you logically respond, "But the ensemble is a bunch of offensive, two-dimensional stereotypes that barely even do anything." And it's like, yes, exactly, but the film wants you to have compassion for horrific stereotypes. Suicide Squad is basically very elaborately over-funded anti-action cinema. It gives you all the superficial content (and diverse cast) of the Fast & Furious franchise, but takes away the most essential component of this genre, which is the satisfaction of seeing these now more 'diverse' phallic forces punching bad guys into a pulp. In Suicide Squad, it's explicit that the villains are just "regular people" turned into an undead army by a military weapon gone wrong. A government official literally mows down a bunch of faceless interns, and patriot Rick Flagg just shrugs like, "Eh, whaddayagonnado." This is what makes all the ballyhoo about Harley Quinn's relationship with the Joker particularly funny. Suicide Squad is exactly this sort of maximally cynical scenario strung together by mediocre cinematography, over and over again; and amidst all this emphatically anti-American sentiment, people are worried that a Randian psychopath fetishizes another Randian psychopath. People are constantly trying to interpret these films as stories of "issues," like the Marvel and X-Men movies, where 'character flaws' are in this state of constantly being overcome, so that we can feel like an epic saga built around 'character' is progressing even when literally nothing happens. Suicide Squad is merely honest - Nothing happens. Not only does nothing happen, but it doesn't even look good when it does. Overall, personally, I didn't much care for it, but I do see it as a basically superior version of The Purge: Anarchy. I think structurally, SMG is right that there's a lot of unnecessary repetition of information, though I think it's safe to say that there are plenty of films dealing in rather similar films, even recently, that are also much more visually compelling. RoboCop 2014, for instance.
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Aug 10, 2016 00:36
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Well, I saw this with my girlfriend who liked it, and I thought it was an ok actioney movie but was pretty dissapointed with the whole product given the source material and how hyped it was. I'm not a critic but some thoughts: - I thought the opening was incredibly disjointed where they had a mini-movie to set up the characters and than got into the real movie with Wallers meeting. -This team is supposed to take on meta-humans or whatever, but it's pretty lovely outside of the enchantress. Guy who shoots guns really good, crazy bitch with a bat, aussie with knives, GI Joe and Diablo. Really Diablo and Enchantress are probably the only two worth anything in a real fight. -My big issue was the team was activated to deal with a problem Waller made. I just felt like it was a lovely cheap story and it would have been cool to see them do something else. -The jokers laugh felt forced and I wasn't a big fan. He could have been used better or not at all. -Dialogue felt flat - I felt Harley was constrained by the script and her lines. I felt her wanting to come out and do more and I got the feeling she was trapped. -Will Smith was Will Smith whatever -Slipknot lol - Killing all the mooks was lovely and didn't add much. - The action was poorly shot - The hero's walking 7 abreast down the alley was lol - I really liked BvS  - The final fight was kind of a let down, i laughed at him saying come at me bitch or whatever though. -Will Smith going "Triangle Bitch" was hilarious [/spoiler]
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Aug 10, 2016 01:02
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BiggerBoat posted:This is awesome. I never saw that episode. In Lego Batman (3?) they have a mission set with Adam West characters and the Joker figure has a very faint mustache as well.
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Aug 10, 2016 01:13
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K. Waste posted:My favorite aspect of Suicide Squad was its devotion to being as absolutely deadpan and anti-climactic as possible. Like last year's Green Room, what we have here is an action movie which is almost pretentiously devoted to undermining any attempt to extract enjoyment from the violence, per se. Now, we inevitably ask, "If the violence is un-engaging, then what else could there possibly be?" My answer is, the ensemble, obviously. But then you logically respond, "But the ensemble is a bunch of offensive, two-dimensional stereotypes that barely even do anything." And it's like, yes, exactly, but the film wants you to have compassion for horrific stereotypes. The joke with Boomerang is not that he fetishizes pink unicorns (lol!) but that he loses his unicorn, and the loss of this fetish-object deflates his cynical 'realism' and causes the full impact of reality to sink in. That's why he's locked in a bare cell at the end, while Harley gets an espresso machine.* That's one sense where the repetition is useful: Waller reads the CIA dossier aloud, and the words appear onscreen as tech specs straight off the back of an action figure package. You may as well see dollar signs flash in her eyes. And when that stuff is repeated in reality, each thing is slightly off. It's not 'pink unicorns' plural; it's just a filthy stuffed toy - and then that's not even the actual joke. Waller insists that Diablo is the guy from the video, but that guy is dead, etc. *The important thing is that Harley gains her fetish, and it immediately explodes outward to reveal Joker as a bizarre mirror of the jailor who electro-shocked her earlier ("I'm just going to hurt you really, really bad"). I'm frankly glad they removed any 'abuse' plot and straightforwardly made Joker into Harley's ideal husband. This is a 'bad movie', but it's a sort of impressively-bad weird-rear end exploitation film in this incarnation. Planet Terror minus the meta-jokes.
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Aug 10, 2016 01:35
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computer parts posted:In Lego Batman (3?) they have a mission set with Adam West characters and the Joker figure has a very faint mustache as well. https://twitter.com/jodamico1/status/761530997519384576
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Aug 10, 2016 01:39
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computer parts posted:In Lego Batman (3?) they have a mission set with Adam West characters and the Joker figure has a very faint mustache as well. It's pretty freaking great. Just utterly speaks to what a wonderful show it was
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Aug 10, 2016 01:40
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Waroduce posted:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wu-Jpwm2OxQ&t=65s
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Aug 10, 2016 01:42
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http://www.comicbookresources.com/article/suicide-squad-breaks-august-record-at-the-box-office This movie continues to make a shitload of money.
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Aug 10, 2016 04:10
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My girlfriend dragged me to this in a strange role reversal. It was a disjointed shambling mess, and The Juggoker was the most cringiest, overacted thing I've seen in ages.
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Aug 10, 2016 05:19
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