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Stringent posted:Had my most successful run to date, thanks to some assistance from LittleBob. Thanks LittleBob! drat that's a fine looking loaf.
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Jul 29, 2016 19:47
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William Stoner posted:My sour dough start smells fairly bad. It's been really humid recently. It took maybe 24hr to bubble and almost overflow. It doesn't look weird, it just smells. Would it be okay to use it right away? Or should I keep feeding it for a bit and maybe it won't be so disgusting after being in the fridge for a bit. How old is it? A young culture produces mainly lactic acid, where as an older one will produce a better balance of lactic and acetic. Lactic acid doesn't always smell too good. Assuming you're making a liquid starter, you probably want about a week's worth of regular feeding before using it to leaven. You could use it then, but you'd be better off leaving it an 3-4 days, or a week - it'll give you a better result and better flavor.
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Jul 29, 2016 20:19
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LittleBob posted:How old is it? A young culture produces mainly lactic acid, where as an older one will produce a better balance of lactic and acetic. Lactic acid doesn't always smell too good. Oh, it's only a few days old. It's probably just a lot of lactic acid looking into it more. I'll feed it a bit over the next week before I use it. What do you recommend for a feeding schedule?
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Jul 29, 2016 20:40
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Every 12 hours at 1:2:2 should be fine. Don't put it in the fridge between feedings, temperatures below 50° can inhibit the yeasts you're trying to grow. If you have time/ability, feed it 3 or 4 times a day at 1:1.5:1.5. Stirring your starter releases carbon dioxide and adds in oxygen, helping to promote yeast activity. By one week old it's probably strong enough to bake, by ten days you'll probably have a better flavour. Edit: Since it's summer time, if you have a warm kitchen, make it 1:2.5:2.5 or 1:3:3. Anything over 75-76°. Henry Black fucked around with this message at 21:45 on Jul 29, 2016 |
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Jul 29, 2016 21:43
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Made some biscuits today. 
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Jul 30, 2016 12:43
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I think I figured out why I didn't get the spring I wanted. Turns out about half of the flour I used (I finished off one un-labeled container and got the rest from another un-labeled container, thanks wife) was cake flour. Whoops.
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Jul 30, 2016 15:45
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I've got some madness proofing right now~ 600g white flour 600g whole wheat flour ~310g happy starter 26g salt 980g fresh ripe tomatoes, pulsed in the food processor with 90g fresh basil ~1/2 cup of water (making 3 boules) almost all of the water is tomatoes  I only added a little water during mixing to get it feeling properly ~80% hydrated. It already smells delicious and I want to eat it but I can't yet 
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Aug 1, 2016 23:37
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The Goatfather posted:I've got some madness proofing right now~ I had an idea for a similar recipe using sundried tomatoes and parmesan cheese. I'm gonna try it when I finally get a mixer. Tomato bread is good bread.
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Aug 1, 2016 23:39
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I like to soak some sun dried tomato, dried onions, dried peppers for a couple hours. I take the water left over and include it in the dough, then I fold in the vegetables with some oregano. Bake with parmesan on top.
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Aug 2, 2016 00:26
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The Goatfather posted:I've got some madness proofing right now~ Oh, looking forward to seeing this.
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Aug 2, 2016 03:49
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Thanks(?) to this thread, I ended up getting some bread flour and trying the King Arthur No-Knead recipe again. Last time I tried (the same thread!) was like two years ago, and I don't remember it too well. My results were mediocre so I kind of gave up. Trying again this time, and I hope to be able to improve my results with help from you guys, because my recent attempt didn't turn out that well... Took photos with my phone which I am having problems with - I'll try to describe as best as I can in text. Followed the recipe in the OP, but I guess I didn't do a good job of letting it proof(?) before the oven bake, because the bottom part of the bread was more like uncooked dough, which I gather means I overproofed? Does the no-knead recipe (and others like it) still follow the final proof checking method of pushing it in with a finger? Also, the dough rose a bit too much vertically than horizontally. My oven is really small, so the top almost started to burn (was dark brown) before the sides were done (maybe also related to the bottom being dough-y?). Is that a product of shaping mishaps? Lastly, the parchment paper I used to line the pan.... didn't work? I floured the surface of the paper and put it in, but the paper ended up sticking to the bottom of the bread. No, more like fused, actually. Also, I used the cheapest bread flour available (also the cheapest) because I'm in Korea and there is literally only one brand of bread flour at the supermarket. The Italian restaurant near me sells "Type 00" flour from the brand "Marino", though they don't have the protein content labelled. They told me it's bread flour... Is that suitable for my needs? Again, I'm terribly sorry for the lack of pictures. I would appreciate whatever help you guys can give me! Archer2338 fucked around with this message at 17:44 on Aug 2, 2016 |
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Aug 2, 2016 17:41
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Stringent posted:Oh, looking forward to seeing this.  I only have 2 bannetons so I had to improvise proofing the third boule in a bowl with a towel and I must have mishandled it somehow and let it come unbouled on the way into the bowl because it pancaked out and came out looking really  . Anyway, the crumb shot looks a little flat because it came from the runt which didn't make it into the other photo: It's good, but not great. The fresh tomato really stands out but it came out just a bit too acidic imo. The bacteria in sourdough starter normally feed mostly on sugars and alcohols produced by the yeast, and thus are usually on a bit of a delay waiting for the yeast to do its thing; my guess is all the extra sugar from the tomatoes gave them an early/abundant start, thus the acidity (nevermind the acidity from the tomatoes). e: also, this was my first time using the towel method to steam the oven instead of the dutch oven. Seems to have done the trick.
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Aug 2, 2016 18:32
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Archer2338 posted:Thanks(?) to this thread, I ended up getting some bread flour and trying the King Arthur No-Knead recipe again. Last time I tried (the same thread!) was like two years ago, and I don't remember it too well. My results were mediocre so I kind of gave up. Proofing aside, if the bottom was like uncooked dough it's just undercooked. If it was overproofed it'd have pancaked out rather than rising too much. How long did you bake it? Any pics? You should go until the crust is starting to take on darker brown colors even if it disagrees with the recipe timing; if your crust is nicely browned it still wasn't cooked through your oven is probably too hot. Before you call it done, hit the bottom of the bread and it should sound hollow. Alternatively, if you've got a meat thermometer you're looking for an internal temperature of 200 degrees fahrenheit. I can't speak to your parchment paper woes since I've never experienced anything like that, but it sounds like there are definitely some other things going on that might be a factor As for the 00 flour: quote:Here in the US, we categorize flours by how much protein they contain, which directly affects the gluten formation in whatever we're making. They do it a little differently in Italy and other parts of Europe by categorizing flours based on how finely the flour has been ground. Coarsely-ground type "2" flour is at one end of the spectrum with powder-fine "00" flour at the other. So I guess it depends  . You should be able to make bread out of the 00 flour, and it'll probably handle and chew a bit differently, but I don't think the gluten content of the flour is your problem.
poverty goat fucked around with this message at 19:14 on Aug 2, 2016 |
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Aug 2, 2016 19:10
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Archer2338 posted:Thanks(?) to this thread, I ended up getting some bread flour and trying the King Arthur No-Knead recipe again. Last time I tried (the same thread!) was like two years ago, and I don't remember it too well. My results were mediocre so I kind of gave up. It should still respond to the finger poke method, yes. If your kitchen is particularly warm this time of year, bear in mind this can all go along a lot faster than the recipe says. It's better to watch your dough as much as possible, looking for the signs of development, rather than going by the times specified. quote:Also, the dough rose a bit too much vertically than horizontally. My oven is really small, so the top almost started to burn (was dark brown) before the sides were done (maybe also related to the bottom being dough-y?). Is that a product of shaping mishaps? Shaping errors and proofing problems won't give you a doughy base and a burnt bottom. Just how small is your oven, and what are you baking the bread on in the oven? What oven mode are you using? quote:Lastly, the parchment paper I used to line the pan.... didn't work? I floured the surface of the paper and put it in, but the paper ended up sticking to the bottom of the bread. No, more like fused, actually. Was it definitely parchment and not wax paper? Wax paper will ruin your poo poo. Cheap parchment can too, but should usually release when baked. I've also heard of one sided parchment paper, could that be the issue? quote:Also, I used the cheapest bread flour available (also the cheapest) because I'm in Korea and there is literally only one brand of bread flour at the supermarket. The Italian restaurant near me sells "Type 00" flour from the brand "Marino", though they don't have the protein content labelled. They told me it's bread flour... Is that suitable for my needs? Is it Mulino Marino? Because that's some pretty good flour! Here, it comes in a bag with the Italian flag colors on. Type 00 flour can definitely be used for bread, but is better for smaller loaves (baguettes, ciabatta, etc). I wouldn't recommend it for a no-knead. If that is what they are selling, ask them if they can get any of Mulino Marino's other flours. Pan di Sempre is a wheat/spelt mix and would be better for no-knead. The Goatfather posted:It's good, but not great. The fresh tomato really stands out but it came out just a bit too acidic imo. The bacteria in sourdough starter normally feed mostly on sugars and alcohols produced by the yeast, and thus are usually on a bit of a delay waiting for the yeast to do its thing; my guess is all the extra sugar from the tomatoes gave them an early/abundant start, thus the acidity (nevermind the acidity from the tomatoes). Citric acid also inhibits yeast growing, which probably didn't help either. If you want to go with fresh tomato, how about using them in a long preferment? Perhaps a poolish of 250g flour, 250g blitzed tomato, 1/4 tsp of yeast, and maybe 1 tsp of honey for some extra food, until a sponge is formed. Using wholewheat might work great because it would have a good few hours to absorb the tomato flavour.
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Aug 2, 2016 21:21
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Thanks for the help guys!  Unfortunately, the pictures that were supposed to be backed up on drive (I had to factory reset my phone a few days ago) didn't make it :/ So I will give it another go this time, and record more details.The Goatfather posted:Proofing aside, if the bottom was like uncooked dough it's just undercooked. If it was overproofed it'd have pancaked out rather than rising too much. How long did you bake it? Any pics? You should go until the crust is starting to take on darker brown colors even if it disagrees with the recipe timing; if your crust is nicely browned it still wasn't cooked through your oven is probably too hot. Before you call it done, hit the bottom of the bread and it should sound hollow. Alternatively, if you've got a meat thermometer you're looking for an internal temperature of 200 degrees fahrenheit. I can't speak to your parchment paper woes since I've never experienced anything like that, but it sounds like there are definitely some other things going on that might be a factor LittleBob posted:It should still respond to the finger poke method, yes. If your kitchen is particularly warm this time of year, bear in mind this can all go along a lot faster than the recipe says. It's better to watch your dough as much as possible, looking for the signs of development, rather than going by the times specified. I will take photos of the oven this time around. I was using some sort of plastic (can't be right, since it doesn't melt, but it feels like a mix of plastic and rubber) pan that came with the oven/house. Not glass. I do have a cast iron pan, but I don't know how I would put the dough on it if it's preheated. Can't put a rack or something on top, because the oven is too drat short.  I also used the "oven" mode, but it also has a "grill" mode. Pretty sure the temperature setting isn't really accurate. I will check the name again when I go, but yeah, it is in a translucent plastic-y bag with the Italian flag colors on the logo. The other flour they have is for "cookies"...? Will try to read the label. Also, I just bought "sheets for baking" (again, Korean supermarket), thinking that it would work. Looks like it's wax paper  Didn't realize that parchment paper was something a lot different...
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Aug 3, 2016 17:10
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Archer2338 posted:Thanks for the help guys! Wax paper is infused with wax, which melts when it gets hot. Parchment paper is infused with silicone, which does not. However, a silpat will be a longer term investment, and it'll work better than parchment paper anyway. Parchment paper is fine, but silpat is better. As far as the flour, take a picture and post it here, we should be able to help you pick the best one.
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Aug 3, 2016 17:50
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I bake my boules in cast iron (both enameled and seasoned) without any parchment paper or oil and it always comes out great. If your dough is floured for proofing, it shouldn't need anything else.
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Aug 3, 2016 17:56
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Archer2338 posted:I will take photos of the oven this time around. I was using some sort of plastic (can't be right, since it doesn't melt, but it feels like a mix of plastic and rubber) pan that came with the oven/house. Not glass. For preheating a cast iron, people often just lift the dough in by hand, being careful. Some make parchment paper straps. Some slide it off a well floured peel. If your oven is too short and it's making it difficult to bake, keep it simple: either cut the recipe in half, or divide the dough in two, and leave half in the fridge while you bake the first batch. It sounds like you might have accidentally grilled the bread! Oh well, learning experience. quote:I will check the name again when I go, but yeah, it is in a translucent plastic-y bag with the Italian flag colors on the logo. The other flour they have is for "cookies"...? Will try to read the label. Try going to The Fresh Loaf website and searching about baking in Korea. I found some details about baking stores, where to get flours, etc. It might be out of date and not relevant to your locale, but it's probably a good place to start. Lots of people seem to have had trouble with the small ovens, and also the flour being too "chewy" in bread. Parchment paper was another problem I think - what you're looking for is siliconized baking parchment paper (or a combination of those words). Don't be afraid to deviate from the KA no-knead recipe either and try something else. Just try to write down what you're doing, so you can repeat it when you like the result. Making a few kneaded loaves is a lot easier than it might seem, and will also help you see what to look for in your dough.
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Aug 3, 2016 18:06
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LittleBob posted:Citric acid also inhibits yeast growing, which probably didn't help either. If you want to go with fresh tomato, how about using them in a long preferment? Perhaps a poolish of 250g flour, 250g blitzed tomato, 1/4 tsp of yeast, and maybe 1 tsp of honey for some extra food, until a sponge is formed. Using wholewheat might work great because it would have a good few hours to absorb the tomato flavour. Maybe I'll just start feeding my starter tomatoes every day to breed some citric acid resistant yeast  Really though I was thinking of maybe doing something along the lines of the FWSY double fed levain bread recipe (starting with a tiny spec of starter you feed the starter twice in a few hours with relatively hot water to encourage sweet yeasty flavors, then supplement it with some commercial yeast) poverty goat fucked around with this message at 00:06 on Aug 4, 2016 |
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Aug 4, 2016 00:01
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Last night I took my first attempt ever at making bagels (I am also not a good baker). I can honestly say that I have produced some of the world's ugliest bagels. 
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Aug 5, 2016 16:00
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You wish, champ. You're not even in the same league as your competition. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hFydjEcaSRs I'd eat those though! They're hard to get right the first time, but now you know the process and you'll be better at getting them how you like. As long as you're happy 
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Aug 6, 2016 06:05
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So I tried using some whole wheat this weekend and wasn't especially happy about how it turned out. I did the tartine recipe with an 8:2 ratio of white to wheat, that should be ok right? I got delayed starting by a couple hours, so I think I might have left my leaven out a bit too long, could that be the culprit?
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Aug 9, 2016 05:14
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Stringent posted:So I tried using some whole wheat this weekend and wasn't especially happy about how it turned out. I did the tartine recipe with an 8:2 ratio of white to wheat, that should be ok right? I got delayed starting by a couple hours, so I think I might have left my leaven out a bit too long, could that be the culprit? Could definitely be the culprit. There's a sweet spot when using leavens and poolishes if you go past it then it can adversly affect your final product. If your leaven had left a "high water mark" on the side of the container where it raised up to and then dropped is one of the major signs it's gone too long.
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Aug 9, 2016 14:08
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  Overall I'm happy with it. I used this recipe and probably did a few things wrong during the process I can easily correct next time. My next goal is to move more in the direction of using whole wheat flour and my yeast starter instead of 100% unbleached flour and instant yeast. How do I get good slices? I tried using a very sharp paring, but the dough would stick and drag with it. clam the FUCK down fucked around with this message at 21:17 on Aug 9, 2016 |
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Aug 9, 2016 21:13
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If you're unhappy with the volume, that's the nature of wholemeal breads I'm afraid! They're not conducive to open crumbs in the same way that a white is. You can try taking the wholemeal flour, hydrating it as appropriate, and leaving it in the fridge over night. You will want to add more water for wholemeal flours as well. Add 5-10% at least to start. Also work it as gently as possible.
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Aug 9, 2016 22:04
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William Stoner posted:Overall I'm happy with it. I used this recipe and probably did a few things wrong during the process I can easily correct next time. Your dough was a bit over proofed there it seems (based on the colour and the disc shape). Did you do the finger dent test listed up in the thread? That's the easy thing to correct! Overproofed bread usually still tastes good though, so no worries. Do you mean scoring your dough before baking? You need to move quick and decisively with your very, very sharp knife. Takes a bit to get used to, and is easier when your bread has good surface tension worked in to it. You have to let the blade do the work - don't apply pressure on the dough. If your blade is sticking try wetting it between slashes.
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Aug 9, 2016 22:15
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William Stoner posted:
A lame is about the best thing for scoring dough that there is. That style has some tension on the blade, which helps it slash through the dough (which should also have tension, as LittleBob said).
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Aug 9, 2016 22:26
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LittleBob posted:Your dough was a bit over proofed there it seems (based on the colour and the disc shape). Did you do the finger dent test listed up in the thread? That's the easy thing to correct! Overproofed bread usually still tastes good though, so no worries. I did the dent test, but the dough seemed to pull rather than dent (stuck to the finger). So I either need to put some flour down before making the dent or mix more before the proof. I'll try a wet straight razor next time, and if that really doesn't work I'll DIY a lame for the tension. Is there any way to make it easier to get the bread out of the dutch oven? I don't particularly like using cornmeal, but it seems like even though I sprayed the sides of the dutch oven, it still stuck to when cooked. However, the bottom didn't have much problem. Would it be bad to flour the sides after spraying them?
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Aug 9, 2016 23:39
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Finally got around to throwing that cinnamon raisin dough together. Turns out my hunch was right. With the ingredients listed on her website, the hydration is WAY too high. I added over 120g of flour and it's still a sticky mess. It's pretty humid today so maybe that has something to do with it, but this was nuts. It's resting for its bulk ferment now, I'll update when it's baked! Here's the recipe, I used the gram measurements: 3 cups (375g) all-purpose flour ½ tsp active dry yeast 1½ tsp salt 1½ tbsp granulated sugar 2 tsp cinnamon ¾ cup (120g) raisins ¾ cup (188g) milk ¾ cup (188g) water
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Aug 9, 2016 23:39
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William Stoner posted:How do I get good slices? I tried using a very sharp paring, but the dough would stick and drag with it. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000MLS7EI/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_MkOQxbSABSFE3 We use it at work instead of a lame on beads with alot of nuts and dried fruit as the lame would get stuck in them. You can make a decent lame for home use out of a double edged razor blade and a wooden coffee stirrer from starbucks or wherever.
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Aug 10, 2016 02:36
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angor posted:Finally got around to throwing that cinnamon raisin dough together. Turns out my hunch was right. With the ingredients listed on her website, the hydration is WAY too high. I added over 120g of flour and it's still a sticky mess. It's pretty humid today so maybe that has something to do with it, but this was nuts. It's resting for its bulk ferment now, I'll update when it's baked! It will be sticky to start. The flour is yet to absorb the liquid, that happens during the 12 hours you leave it sitting around. Don't worry about it too much. Some flours just aren't as "thirsty" as others, and combined with a humid environment it might be a little bit stickier than you were expecting. If you like the taste of this one, try making it as directed next time. I think you'll be surprised how much a high hydration dough can change in that length of time.
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Aug 10, 2016 06:52
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LittleBob posted:It will be sticky to start. The flour is yet to absorb the liquid, that happens during the 12 hours you leave it sitting around. Don't worry about it too much. Some flours just aren't as "thirsty" as others, and combined with a humid environment it might be a little bit stickier than you were expecting. I dunno, it was REALLY wet. Think flour soup. After I added flour was still far wetter than I'm used to with a 75% no knead (same flour) that I do for pizza, but I figured it was supposed to be, so I did the overnight proof. Here's what it looked like before proofing:  While shaping it looked nearly identical to the video. Here it is ready for the oven (before scoring)  And post bake!!!  It's cooling. The house smells incredible. The wait is killing me. Edit: Money shot! I am a very happy man  
angor fucked around with this message at 13:10 on Aug 10, 2016 |
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Aug 10, 2016 12:28
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So I'm baking my first loaf of bread ever and so I put my bbq thermometer in there since the 2nd post says the bread is done at 205. The weird thing is that the temperature climbed to about 169 and now is dropping, to 158 so far. Is this normal? It's been about 20 minutes so far into baking. Edit: It's now rocketed up to 185, and is now dropping again to 176  Edit2: Welp, finally it jumped from 195 to 217. Got into the kitchen and it was JUST barely not burnt. I bet like 1 more minute and it would have for sure. Is there a better way to figure this out? Should I wait a few minutes before inserting the probe? Edit3: Well I made a few mistakes, like using an IPA instead of water, which translated hard into the finished product. It was also significantly more dense than I would have liked, but it was pretty good for a first try imo. I'll definitely be trying this again. McSpankWich fucked around with this message at 14:04 on Aug 11, 2016 |
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Aug 11, 2016 02:43
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Do you mean a meat thermometer? As in you're leaving it stuck in there the whole time? I wouldn't bother with that at all. Use an instant read if you want to check when you think you're getting close, but it's really not necessary to keep one in there the whole time. Unless your oven is way off in temperature, just start checking around the time the recipe says.
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Aug 11, 2016 14:22
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If it looks like it might be done just pick it up with a towel or something and tap the bottom it should sound hollow. I've never stuck a thermometer into a loaf of bread.
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Aug 11, 2016 16:45
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So I have a nice setup with a nail and a double edged razor blade for scoring bread next time I bake a loaf. I'm having some trouble with my starter. I've been feeding it once a day 100g:100g water:flour (unbleached all purpose) After last nights feeding I woke up to it overflowing. It seems happy and smells good, and I've fed it for about 4 days. I've been going off of this I've placed the starter in the fridge for now so the yeast can rest. Is that a mistake? I probably won't bake until 2-days from now.
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Aug 11, 2016 20:45
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Use a bigger container for your starter, I use a 1.9L mason jar and my starter lives in the bottom half of it, never overflows even on a pre-bake big feed.
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Aug 11, 2016 21:26
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Just found this thread and you've revitalized my interest in baking bread. When I tried a few years ago I never was able to get an airy crumb, I've a scale this time though and will try some of the tips to actually get something worth while. A few questions before I start tonight, I was going to make this http://www.seriouseats.com/recipes/2014/08/simple-crusty-white-bread-recipe.html, is that a good one to start with if I'm looking for something I can do in one night? Or is there a better beginner recipe? Also, I know you've been saying to knead by hand, but I've had real trouble in the past feeling when its 'whole' or actually together enough and not over mixed. Maybe a lack of experience but I can't really tell. Is it really a bad idea to use a dough hook on a kitchenaid?
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Aug 12, 2016 00:18
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I use a dough hook on my kitchenaid, but my stuff isn't the best. Have not tried hand kneeding from the start.
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Aug 12, 2016 01:14
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Do stretch and folds and you don't need to knead.
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Aug 12, 2016 01:28
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