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Think of trolls as slower cavalry. Yeah they won't stick around in an extended fight but they do powerful damage charging in, then you pull them out and charge them in again. They are small also so they can squeeze in between gaps in the line.
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Aug 11, 2016 19:51
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TipsyMcStagger posted:Someone did say a few days ago to use goblins as a screen for trolls. I thought he was messing with me because I was talking about how terrible orc leadership is and both those units have terrible leadership. Goblins actually have really good missile deflection, whatever that silver shield grants them.
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Aug 11, 2016 19:51
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Fangz posted:Greenskins are tricky against Dwarves but there are stuff you should consider: Eh, Greenskins were simple. Gobbo archers in front in skirmish mode who focus fire on anything without shields. Gobbos in a broad line to the front/center to catch fire from quarellers with a lord behind to keep them fighting. Boyz to the sides and far behind to avoid missile fire. Stone throwers and doom divers to the back to force dwarfs to advance. Wolf riders/archers and boars to the flanks. You basically have a wide arrow shaped formation that becomes a enveloping U shape upon contact, where the center is entirely expendable and you crush the flanks by overwhelming with boyz. Cavalry should constantly charge and disengage arty and ranged troops preferably with multiple units. AI missile troops are generally in skirmish mode and will try to run away from cavalry giving free charges into non-braced infantry.
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Aug 11, 2016 19:52
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50% for gobbos. 30% for orc boys
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Aug 11, 2016 19:52
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Mukip posted:I'll do it, then! Mukip's Grand Tournament sign ups begin now. Let's give it a week. Sign me up too. Have you considered running the tournament 'list' style? Esl has some like this now where you pick a race and submit a premade army list that you play through the entire tournament. This removes a lot of focus on counter picking and has led to way more diverse army selection.
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Aug 11, 2016 20:11
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Depending on when the tournament is being held, I may or may not be able to join in.
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Aug 11, 2016 20:19
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TipsyMcStagger posted:Someone did say a few days ago to use goblins as a screen for trolls. I thought he was messing with me because I was talking about how terrible orc leadership is and both those units have terrible leadership. That was me, I feel vindicated. Trolls own, especially for how early you get them, and goblins are the perflect complement. Trolls do the killing and goblins are their ablative armor. If their not getting swarmed or taking arrows, Trolls life stays high and they don't get the losing combat debuff so they stick around.
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Aug 11, 2016 20:21
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John Charity Spring posted:Karl Franz Gonna give this a try but I do miss having some sort of vanguard archer unit like Ungor Raiders. Thanks! What is the steam tank's role? I had a couple but was unimpressed to with them compared to the sheer crazy damage of the other artillery. Also, I can't figure out what to do with the Luminark.
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Aug 11, 2016 20:24
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Olive Branch posted:Depending on when the tournament is being held, I may or may not be able to join in. Well, we have 14/16 players now so I may start doing it within the next few days. As for list building, I was going to just let people tailor their faction and list to whatever they felt like during game creation, since that's part of the ranked game style to which I am now accustomed. But being forced to stick with a single race and list would provide an alternate type of challenge I suppose. Do you think all of the factions are able to create all-comers armies like that?
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Aug 11, 2016 20:26
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I have been using Trolls as a backline harasser against Dwarfs, almost like cavalry, and have had a lot of success with that.
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Aug 11, 2016 20:33
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fnordcircle posted:Gonna give this a try but I do miss having some sort of vanguard archer unit like Ungor Raiders. Thanks!
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Aug 11, 2016 20:35
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Steam Tanks can pivot and shoot, so they are good against flyers and flanking cavalry. They do well against things like Vargheists and Blood Knights if left alone for a while to shoot, and then they are decent melee monsters. They are terror causing and unbreakable so you can try to cause a mass rout in the front on the battle line, or head off rear attacks by enemy cavalry by barreling into them. They do a bit of everything.
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Aug 11, 2016 20:40
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TipsyMcStagger posted:I've decided I don't know how to fight battles with Orcs.. Honestly a big part of early game success with Greenskins (for me at least) is just getting more chummy with autoresolve than you normally would.
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Aug 11, 2016 20:48
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I am not good at this game, count me in as a free win in your tournament!
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Aug 11, 2016 21:55
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is agent spam still an issue with the ai? if so, are there any recommended mods to mitigate it?
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Aug 11, 2016 22:09
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EDIT: gently caress Im slow
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Aug 11, 2016 22:20
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Doctor Schnabel posted:is agent spam still an issue with the ai? if so, are there any recommended mods to mitigate it? I use a 'no hostile agent actions' mod and my quality of life has gone way up.
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Aug 11, 2016 22:29
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When can we expect information on the net faction/DLC?
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Aug 11, 2016 23:49
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Doctor Schnabel posted:is agent spam still an issue with the ai? if so, are there any recommended mods to mitigate it? I used to mod them out but turned them back on again after reading more about agent mechanics in this thread. They're not that hard to counter if you're prepared, especially now CA has tweaked them a bit. They're also great for levelling your own agents and unlocking skills earlier. rockopete fucked around with this message at 00:02 on Aug 12, 2016 |
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Aug 11, 2016 23:58
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You just have to realise that agent actions are a lot cheaper and less risky this time round, so get them and have them do stuff every turn. With the patch debuffs to AI agents you really should be winning the agents game. Unless you're dwarves.
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Aug 12, 2016 00:12
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rockopete posted:I used to mod them out but turned them back on again after reading more about agent mechanics in this thread. They're not that hard to counter if you're prepared, especially now CA has tweaked them a bit. They're also great for levelling your own agents and unlocking skills earlier. Seconding this, it's now an interesting strategic tidbit rather than a hellscape of goblins hiding under every non-LL's bed.
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Aug 12, 2016 00:14
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Is there a mod that turns off the chaos corruption event that triggers when the warriors show up? I kinda feel like doing a game where I bumblefuck around for 300 turns
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Aug 12, 2016 00:19
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I don't know if there's a mod, but I'm doing exactly that by following some reddit Empire turtling guide. Just keep building up walls and hiring lords that I give the fervent trait and I haven't had a rebellion in a long time despite 2 chaos dealies.
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Aug 12, 2016 00:27
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Deified Data posted:Honestly a big part of early game success with Greenskins (for me at least) is just getting more chummy with autoresolve than you normally would. Not just you. The Greenskin campaign made me think I totally sucked at this game (still probable) in the early turns until I read this thread. Autoresolve says I have a massive advantage? My leader and several undamaged units flee into the distance while my remaining tattered units surround and barely rout the last T1 Dwarf unit. 50%-60% casualties. Autoresolve says it's an even fight? Entire army melts in 6 minutes. Thousands dead. 7 Dwarfs suffer mild bruising and one stubs his toe marching. I don't know what the autoresolve doesn't taken into account, but whatever it is is pretty big.
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Aug 12, 2016 00:35
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Avasculous posted:I don't know what the autoresolve doesn't taken into account, but whatever it is is pretty big. Logic.
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Aug 12, 2016 00:40
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Autoresolve tends to make the AI wonky at times with army comp.
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Aug 12, 2016 00:44
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Mr. Wookums posted:Autoresolve tends to make the AI wonky at times with army comp. That's not really autoresolve's fault. That comes about if the AI loses its recruitment settlements and is left with one province with the siege engine building.
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Aug 12, 2016 00:50
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Avasculous posted:Not just you. The Greenskin campaign made me think I totally sucked at this game (still probable) in the early turns until I read this thread. I mean if you're fighting dwarfs as greenskins and you have a massive numbers advantage you're still going to lose if you don't use it to envelop them completely and make them break
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Aug 12, 2016 00:50
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autoresolve mostly just runs off numbers and tier of unit, it doesn't really take into account that dwarf tier 1 is way stronger than greenskin tier 1
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Aug 12, 2016 01:01
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Fangz posted:That's not really autoresolve's fault. That comes about if the AI loses its recruitment settlements and is left with one province with the siege engine building. less fun but makes more sense
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Aug 12, 2016 01:07
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fnordcircle posted:I don't know if there's a mod, but I'm doing exactly that by following some reddit Empire turtling guide. Just keep building up walls and hiring lords that I give the fervent trait and I haven't had a rebellion in a long time despite 2 chaos dealies. Yeah I've been doing something like this, but even with the public order boosts the other AI nations don't handle the corruption very well and it's ruining my pretty map
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Aug 12, 2016 02:22
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Avasculous posted:Not just you. The Greenskin campaign made me think I totally sucked at this game (still probable) in the early turns until I read this thread. Bottom line is dwarfs have vastly superior morale and armor, especially at low tech levels. They trade all of their mobility for this advantage. You need to have the right units to counter this, not just superior numbers. Units like archers and standard goblins/orc boyz are super bad at this because they don't have armor-piercing and don't inflict fear. You need heavy cavalry (boar boyz/chariots), artillery, monsters, and/or black orcs to beat a dwarf army of roughly the same size as your own.
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Aug 12, 2016 03:14
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Mukip posted:I'll do it, then! Mukip's Grand Tournament sign ups begin now. Let's give it a week. I've yet to play TWW online but count me in. The list suggestion sounds like a good idea to me.
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Aug 12, 2016 04:29
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I'm not entirely sure about the lists, but I think we should be building our armies transparently. The whole point is to stage battles that fun to play and fun to watch, so I should tell my opponent that I'm grabbing some gyrocopters, while they explain that they're counter-picking outriders. That way we see more unorthodox battles and interesting strategies.
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Aug 12, 2016 04:40
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Triskelli posted:I'm not entirely sure about the lists, but I think we should be building our armies transparently. The whole point is to stage battles that fun to play and fun to watch, so I should tell my opponent that I'm grabbing some gyrocopters, while they explain that they're counter-picking outriders. That way we see more unorthodox battles and interesting strategies. This is easily the worst idea regarding tournament composition I've seen yet.
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Aug 12, 2016 04:42
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Is VH fun with Dwarfs or do you just keep restarting until you get a save where Grimgor doesn't rush you?
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Aug 12, 2016 04:43
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Chomp8645 posted:This is easily the worst idea regarding tournament composition I've seen yet. Agreed--I also don't really like the single list idea. I like being able to build my army freely. I do like the "only 1 healing potion" rule, though, and I wouldn't mind anti-spam rules (all siege tank or all gyro armies are as obnoxious as they are effective).
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Aug 12, 2016 05:08
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The rules last time seemed to work pretty well. Everyone posted a list of the 5 factions they'd use in order so that there's no faction counter picking and you couldn't have more than 6 of one unit, max 2 cavalry skirmishers, max 3 heroes including your Lord and maybe a few other restrictions on builds, can't remember exactly.
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Aug 12, 2016 05:20
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Chomp8645 posted:This is easily the worst idea regarding tournament composition I've seen yet. i don't think the rules need to be that complicated. max 3 heroes including your lord. that seems, uh, about right to me. possibly make matches best 2 out of 3 and make it so you can't use the same faction in more than one round of a match? if people are okay playing that many matches. that'd get some faction variety going.
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Aug 12, 2016 05:31
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Trujillo posted:The rules last time seemed to work pretty well. Everyone posted a list of the 5 factions they'd use in order so that there's no faction counter picking and you couldn't have more than 6 of one unit, max 2 cavalry skirmishers, max 3 heroes including your Lord and maybe a few other restrictions on builds, can't remember exactly. Not really any reason to limit cavalry skirmishers beyond the general limit--they aren't exactly OP in multiplayer (and are in line for a buff, actually).
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Aug 12, 2016 05:42
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