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So it's par for the course?
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Aug 8, 2016 19:11
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I will say that the Vive finally turns itself off when you are not wearing it finally.  Still have no idea what that button on the headset itself does though.
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Aug 8, 2016 19:17
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EdEddnEddy posted:I will say that the Vive finally turns itself off when you are not wearing it finally.
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Aug 8, 2016 19:20
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s.i.r.e. posted:So it's par for the course? I haven't used my Vive in a while because my mom's dog chewed the poo poo out of the cable and foam and I haven't had a spare 70 dollars to buy new ones. The last time I used it, I had to manually open SteamVR and manually set the audio device to the Vive. Sure I could have SteamVR do it automatically but then it sets the default device for the entire computer to the Vive for as long as SteamVR is open. Then it will randomly just not let you use the menu. the bottom section pops up and you can get to the settings but the library and store don't work until you fiddle with everything for several minutes and probably have to restart before it works. Then it would leave the screen of the vive on for several minutes before finally going to standby. The proximity sensor seemed to not do much of anything. Though maybe they've fixed that recently. SteamVR has always been quite lovely and I only tolerated it because it's Steam and it's the biggest name in town.
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Aug 8, 2016 19:31
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I think the recent addition of 4-camera support to the Oculus SDK is proof that they're rethinking their stance on room-scale experiences.
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Aug 8, 2016 19:35
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Ludicrous Gibs! posted:I think the recent addition of 4-camera support to the Oculus SDK is proof that they're rethinking their stance on room-scale experiences. Is the idea that you'd have 4 total cameras for room scale? Can't you not do that with 2 like the Vive? The idea that you can buy the Rift but not Touch is bad enough for potential adoption (but good for Vive ports at least) but if you also have to buy 2 more cameras on top of that plus all the cables to connect to your computer just seems a bit much> Like the SLI of VR.
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Aug 8, 2016 20:06
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KakerMix posted:Is the idea that you'd have 4 total cameras for room scale? Can't you not do that with 2 like the Vive? I think it holds hope that the Oculus system which will actually be expandable, unlike the Vive system which has a fixed max room size, which would be pretty cool.
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Aug 8, 2016 20:08
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TBF, the roomscale config is still a travesty, literally anyone could come up with a better setup. Having to put on and remove the headset to do the config is silly. But oculus home is completely dead in the water, months later the only significant feature I've seen is to finally switch sound input/output like steam when you put the headset on. You still get dumped to their stupid house, it opens in the background wasting resources for no reason when you go into steamvr and I'm still unable to hide that stupid "your computer sucks" message even though my PC works perfectly fine.
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Aug 8, 2016 20:12
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Bhodi posted:TBF, the roomscale config is still a travesty, literally anyone could come up with a better setup. But oculus home is completely dead in the water, months later the only significant feature I've seen is to finally switch sound input/output like steam when you put the headset on. You still get dumped to their stupid house, it opens in the background wasting resources for no reason when you go into steamvr and I'm still unable to hide that stupid "your computer sucks" message even though my PC works perfectly fine. You can skip the stupid house in certain circumstances, like I launch BigScreen though steam and the only thing I have to do is stare through the health and safety thing like an idiot and then I go to a good house
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Aug 8, 2016 20:14
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Can someone unbiased (not me) come up with a Venn diagram of how PSVR games will line up with Oculus vs Vive? I thought I read somewhere that PSVR will require all games to support the DS4 controller + the limited FOV of the camera would put it firmly in line with Oculus and standing scale. My thought is that the potential marketshare/adoption of PSVR/Oculus would force more developers from Indie - AAA to reconsider targeting room scale as room scale will limit their audience and potential sales.
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Aug 8, 2016 20:14
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Good to hear that about Touch. I was worried it would somehow turn out to be really gimmicky and lacklustre. Wonder what it's like to use in FPS games.
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Aug 8, 2016 20:23
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Lemming posted:You can skip the stupid house in certain circumstances, like I launch BigScreen though steam and the only thing I have to do is stare through the health and safety thing like an idiot and then I go to a good house
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Aug 8, 2016 20:25
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KakerMix posted:Is the idea that you'd have 4 total cameras for room scale? Can't you not do that with 2 like the Vive? AFAIK, Vive still has some occlusion issues in spots, where the user's body blocks the wands. Four cameras, one in each corner of the room, could potentially eliminate that. Although that raises an interesting question of how wide the FOV on the Oculus cameras is. As in, assuming a camera in each upper corner of a room, how far from one do you need to be in order for it to see your head+hands? Assuming you're using an entire room (as I intend to), it could potentially make your usable space that much smaller.
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Aug 8, 2016 20:30
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Cojawfee posted:Console warriors who have cemented themselves into team Vive. Every time Oculus does something bad, they run to reddit to spout a bunch of hyperbole that Oculus is finally done for. Then everyone forgets about it. I think that most people are console warriors to the extent that I am - in that they want games to come out for their hardware. A bit more than a year ago at AWE, I had my first room-scale VR experience wit H3VR on a DK2 + motion controllers (I don't recall which). Before that point, I didn't give a poo poo about VR. "Gee I can turn my head when I play games." After that, I knew there was actually a future to it. This was months before all but a few journalists had laid hands on a Vive. But my assessment at that point is "I want to buy hardware that will do this thing. For the past several months, now, and until some time in the future that thing (which Valve go the chance to choose the name for - Room Scale VR) has been dominated by the Vive. Their track record for hardware reliability is horrendous and their RMA process is a nightmare, but if you get a good device, mount your lighthouses right, and get a good blackout curtain, it breaks the threshold above which I forget the physical world around me. I played Chronos with Revive, and it's amazing how much that experience, even with all of its professional polish, pales in comparison to things like Vanishing Realms, made with asset store assets by one dude over a period of months. Valve stole a march on Oculus when it went straight for the throat and released a full motion tracking system + headset and emphasized room-scale experiences. Despite owning a Vive I hope Oculus Touch takes off, and their tracking works really well. That just means that we'll all get better software. (Please for the love of god give us better software)
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Aug 8, 2016 20:36
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Regarding hte lack of Home development, Luckey and Iribe said in that Tested interview they've been working on support for Touch. It's pretty pathetic I agree. Especially given that they are trying to push the platform so hard. Ditto the Touch release, though I presume they're giving it time for stocking up of hardware/ramping up of their production - plus giving the release games time to wrap. I still suspect it'll be $250+ though. KakerMix posted:Is the idea that you'd have 4 total cameras for room scale? Can't you not do that with 2 like the Vive? Hence I don't expect that having 4 cameras will allow you to have a larger play area with the Rift, though I might be wrong. El Grillo fucked around with this message at 20:54 on Aug 8, 2016 |
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Aug 8, 2016 20:47
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KakerMix posted:Is the idea that you'd have 4 total cameras for room scale? Can't you not do that with 2 like the Vive? You could use two like the Vive but like the Vive, you'd run into annoying occlusion issues. Using four cameras means you can have a sensor in each corner of your play area and avoid almost all occlusion issues. Though you also have to find two more dedicated USB 3 ports. As far as I'm aware, lighthouse can't be modified to accept more than two base stations. The Rift could end up with an occlusion free room scale experience but it would end up costing 1200 dollars after buying two extra cameras, a USB card to support them, and some active USB 3 extensions. Cojawfee fucked around with this message at 20:53 on Aug 8, 2016 |
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Aug 8, 2016 20:50
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I'm still just surprised that Oculus has seemingly miscalculated so badly, like the turned into Microsoft right out of the gate instead of slowly turning into an out-of-touch-ran-by-executives slowly after changing a bunch of poo poo up. That we are all sitting here speculating what Oculus is going to do with it's touch controllers just makes it that much more clear. What can Oculus touch do that Vive can't? What is going to be the killer app or feature that Oculus Touch does that the Vive can't do? Is it going to be enough? Are they really finally going to admit and work toward room-scale? Oculus jump started this dead industry and then lost their way right when they stood up.
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Aug 8, 2016 21:04
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Looks like someone finally got the loving memo: http://store.steampowered.com/app/372650/
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Aug 8, 2016 21:12
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Truga posted:Looks like someone finally got the loving memo: http://store.steampowered.com/app/372650/ Envelop have been doing private demos for over a year now. Their marketing is good, but the burden's still on them to demonstrate that they've fixed all the standard issues of occluded windows, weird drawing mechanisms, et cetera et cetera, that have plagued everyone else's attempts to do this on windows. I guess we'll see now that there's a public build out.
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Aug 8, 2016 21:19
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People are saying it's fairly buggy still, I'll probably try it out tomorrow and see. vvv: welp that's sad. I was hoping for a decent VR desktop by now. Not that virtual desktop is bad it's just... Well, still a normal monitor. Truga fucked around with this message at 21:48 on Aug 8, 2016 |
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Aug 8, 2016 21:30
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Truga posted:People are saying it's fairly buggy still, I'll probably try it out tomorrow and see. I tried it out yesterday and while it is neat, unless you have a dedicated webcam pointed at your keyboard and not moving, your keyboard won't look anything as nice as that. Personally I got a better experience out of Virtual Desktop, because the huge purple borders around all the windows kinda suck and look bad. Also never take your headset off unless you want to reach down and hit the reset switch on your PC, as it intercepts all input from your mouse and keyboard and when your Rift/Vive switches off because it detects that you're not wearing it, the program eats your mouse and keyboard and nothing will get them back without a hard reset. Performance is also noticeably lower than with Virtual Desktop, I noticed stuttering and hiccups in tracking, and I've got a 980 TI. Also there's apparently complaints about uninstalling the software being dirty/lazy and leaving registry entries and files all over the place, might not matter to you, but if you don't like lovely uninstallers, that's worth noting. orange juche fucked around with this message at 21:43 on Aug 8, 2016 |
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Aug 8, 2016 21:39
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Okay, that actually manages to be worse than what I was expecting. What the hell have they been doing for the past year?
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Aug 8, 2016 22:12
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NRVNQSR posted:Okay, that actually manages to be worse than what I was expecting. What the hell have they been doing for the past year? None of what I've said is not fixable, ostensibly now that they have a public beta out, they can get feedback from a wide pool of testers and fix issues more quickly. Personally I just don't like the UI feel of the borders on the windows, and their code under the hood that redraws the desktop could use work, there's probably junk code or a cobbled together fix that needs to be streamlined. The keyboard thing almost doesn't matter to me, I'm a touch typer and don't need to see the keyboard to type, having it there in the camera view can actually distract me, and I couldn't find a way in the options to turn off the keyboard camera.
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Aug 8, 2016 22:27
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Little project I've been knocking together the last couple of weeks: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MT6mdlUEFsI
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Aug 9, 2016 05:04
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I guess this Avegant Glyph thing came out: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01FIIU7JW?ref_=ams_ad_dp_ttl#customerReviews Mixed reviews but seems promising. If they could work on the comfort and weight, I think that form factor could really take off. Edit: Here's someone showing what it looks like through the lenses... if anyone finds a better video, post it up: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uio_x76b5EA&t=308s Zero VGS fucked around with this message at 22:25 on Aug 9, 2016 |
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Aug 9, 2016 22:22
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Avegant started in my hometown, so I'm rooting for the Glyph to succeed. If I shell out $600+ for a HMD in the near future, though, it's not going to be for a headset that doesn't do VR. Also, I bought a NIB Gear from Ebay today, so I will soon be basking in mid-tier VR while I wait to get money/hardware/gumption together for a PC headset. 
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Aug 9, 2016 23:36
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Zero VGS posted:I guess this Avegant Glyph thing came out: [url]https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01FIIU7JW? I've had my KS edition since about Easter and had thought about posting a full review here, but held off as its not really a VR device. It is a fantastic media viewer - they sell it as a '60 inch tv from your couch', but to me it feels more like 'at your desk with a 24" monitor', which is absolutely fine. The screen is amazing - as described absolutely no screen door. It is 720p but looks much better. You know how if you switch your monitor to 720p, everything looks fuzzy and chunky? It's not like that at all and you could easily mistake it for 1080p. If you use your pc's Virtual Super Resolution to emulate 4k or whatever, you can still read the proportionately tiny text. The only annoying thing is that you can't lean closer to the screen. The 3d (SBS and frame-packed) is great and the sound is awesome. The head tracking is iffy but they're still working on it and providing updates - it started as pure mouse emulation (updownleftright) but they're working on joystick emulation with roll. As their main pitch right now appears to be for FPS drone cams we'll see how this goes. I was hoping to play Elite Dangerous with this in stunning hi-res 3d with tracking, but due to the limited FOV and tracking its not something to spend hours in. Sadly they're a couple of years late in some areas, which isn't really their fault: the death of 3d films/games and the phone industry shifting away from MHL-HDMI just as it got good, has dried up some of their selling points. Mainly I'm using it on long journeys and in bed - kodi player on a pi zero with power/battery tucked discretely away, phone app as remote control. Happy to answer any questions I guess?
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Aug 10, 2016 12:54
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The DoomVR locomotion sounds pretty cool: http://www.gamespot.com/articles/doom-may-have-solved-vrs-traversal-problem/quote:Rather than instantly shifting the camera from point A to point B, Doom makes you feel like you're dashing through the world with super speed: when you hold down the trigger of HTC Vive's left handheld controller, the world slows down, the audio drops into a deep rumble, and a bright blue aiming cursor appears. When you release the trigger, you see the world rush past as you dart to your selected destination. Being able to see how you got to where you're going while feeling like a time-bending badass in the process feels worlds better than the instantaneous, unceremonious perspective shift found in other VR games. The whole thing sounds great, be interesting to see the hardware requirements if it really does look almost as good as the 2D version.
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Aug 11, 2016 11:18
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We're in some pong-rear end days of VR game development. It's the wild west out there and I love seeing people coming up with all these solutions to VR player-game interaction "problems".
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Aug 11, 2016 17:25
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El Grillo posted:The DoomVR locomotion sounds pretty cool: http://www.gamespot.com/articles/doom-may-have-solved-vrs-traversal-problem/ That sounds cool to me. I think teleporting is a really rough, immersion ruining mechanic (with the way it's usually implemented, Budget Cuts is ok) so it's good to hear other stuff might be working
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Aug 11, 2016 17:51
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Something I like to remind people of is that WSAD+Mouse wasn't settled on as the standard input for first person games until the late 90s, despite it being, in hindsight, kinda obvious. It took almost a decade to figure out how to control first person games, even though literally everyone had a keyboard and mouse from the very start. It'll take some time to figure out the best way to pull of movement in VR too.
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Aug 12, 2016 11:21
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SwissCM posted:Something I like to remind people of is that WSAD+Mouse wasn't settled on as the standard input for first person games until the late 90s, despite it being, in hindsight, kinda obvious. Mice certainly weren't ubiquitous when W3D and Doom came out. Our household technically owned one, but it never came out of the box because GEM wasn't worth using. I would almost look at things the opposite way; there has been almost no change in how we control first person games on PC since the days of Doom. Mouselook a year or so later was a big innovation, but it's pretty much the only one. The control mechanisms haven't improved, we've just become so used to them that they're now second nature.
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Aug 12, 2016 11:38
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NRVNQSR posted:Mice certainly weren't ubiquitous when W3D and Doom came out. Our household technically owned one, but it never came out of the box because GEM wasn't worth using. Yeah, I think you'll find mice were quite commonly found, at least on computers that could run Doom and Wolfenstein 3D. Windows 3.1 was out around that time and it garnered mass adoption. Doom was released in 1993 and was primarily keyboard controlled. Some people used the mouse, but considering that the Y axis was hard-coded to forward/backward movement it was very awkward to use . Quake didn't come out until 3 years later and even that didn't have mouselook as default, it wasn't even an option in the menu instead it was only possible to enable via the console. It was about 1998 when games started to default to WSAD+mouselook (Half Life I think?) and even then it took a few more years for every game to use that scheme. So actually there has been plenty of change. Try playing old first person games from the 90s (not newly-packaged versions/ports that come with modernized control schemes) and you'll quickly realise that. SCheeseman fucked around with this message at 12:17 on Aug 12, 2016 |
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Aug 12, 2016 12:00
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SwissCM posted:Yeah, I think you'll find mice were quite commonly found, at least on computers that could run Doom and Wolfenstein 3D. Windows 3.1 was out around that time and it garnered mass adoption. Was going to say at least by at least 1990 where Monkey Island / EGA-gen Sierra games were out for PC. I fought WSAD for so long, Quake 2ing away on the keypad
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Aug 12, 2016 12:33
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NRVNQSR posted:GEM wasn't worth using. You take that back.
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Aug 12, 2016 12:33
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Duke3d supported mouse and keyboard in January 1996, and did so just like it works today, though perspective was totally screwed up when looking up or down. Doom wasn't really a 3D game, more like 2.5d (as was duke3d to a lesser extent) so it's understandable looking up and down wasn't really a thing. I think quake was the first "true" 3D shooter, it was certainly the first popular one where you actually had to aim up and down. So in that sense, mouse and keyboard was in the first 3D FPS and is largely unchanged since then.
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Aug 12, 2016 12:35
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Windows 3.1 certainly wasn't ubiquitous while Doom was in development; it wasn't even out for most of that time. I would point to Marathon in '94 as being the first new FPS developed in the GUI era, and that controlled pretty much identically to today's shooters - I don't consider the switch of default bindings from arrow keys to WASD as a huge innovation. Significant changes to FPS control schemes since then have only come when they were forced to: Halo on consoles being the obvious example. And there has been no significant innovation on gamepad FPS controls since Bungie's first implementation, either; generally once you have controls for a genre that basically work no-one changes them because players are unwilling to relearn. Eyud posted:You take that back. Never!
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Aug 12, 2016 12:38
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NRVNQSR posted:Windows 3.1 certainly wasn't ubiquitous while Doom was in development; it wasn't even out for most of that time. I would point to Marathon in '94 as being the first new FPS developed in the GUI era, and that controlled pretty much identically to today's shooters - I don't consider the switch of default bindings from arrow keys to WASD as a huge innovation. I grew up at the time, I never saw a modern computer (386 upwards) that didn't have a mouse attached to it. They weren't hugely expensive at the time and virtually every computer had a serial port, not to mention that while Windows 3.1 wasn't out the Windows platform had been for a long while. Seriously, it was standard equipment by then. Marathon did have mouselook but I'm not talking about discovery or invention, I'm talking about standardisation. The best solution to VR locomotion may have already been found, but we don't really know yet. The Dual Shock was released many years prior to Halo. Have you ever played a first person game on PS1? It's a nightmare, despite the hardware to do it properly already being there.
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Aug 12, 2016 12:45
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..btt posted:Duke3d supported mouse and keyboard in January 1996, and did so just like it works today, though perspective was totally screwed up when looking up or down. Doom wasn't really a 3D game, more like 2.5d (as was duke3d to a lesser extent) so it's understandable looking up and down wasn't really a thing. Duke's mouselook wasn't on by default and it doesn't actually work like today games. They bizarrely forced the use a filtering algorithm that only took acceleration data from the mouse one axis at a time, the axis with the greater acceleration taking priority. It's what causes that stair-step movement. Most Build engine games that used the same input stack suffered from this problem, which is why I threw together bmouse. SCheeseman fucked around with this message at 12:55 on Aug 12, 2016 |
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Aug 12, 2016 12:51
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Yeah, I meant from a user's perspective it works basically the same. Obviously it wasn't even a true 3D engine - you couldn't look directly up and down for example. I don't think whether it's the default or in the menus is particularly relevant, especially for quake - in the early versions you could barely do anything without touching the console, I remember having to use various console commands to load maps and set up LAN matches.
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Aug 12, 2016 13:01
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