Final Fantasy IX - Steiner says "Princess" 89 times on the first disc

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kalonZombie: May 24, 2010; D&D 3.5 Book of Erotic Fantasy

Level 1 runs are a good way for when you are like me and have beaten the game roughly 20 times and know it so well nothing really challenges you anymore. Granted I've never gone past disc 1 on a level 1 challenge before giving up, but I've entertained the thought a few times because there's only so many times you can play FF9 before it becomes apparent that nothing can stand in your way of the foreknowledge you have.

# ? Aug 11, 2016 02:46

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# ? Jun 7, 2024 00:39

Lavender menace: Nov 7, 2012; by Lowtax

This is one of the sections in the game where it's obvious low level playthroughs are by player persistence rather than game design. That said what I think this entry does better than any other in the series is that in most battles, the game rewards your knowledge and applications of battle mechanics, rather than just grinding levels. FF8 tried this and got it terribly (if often hilariously) wrong by radically departing from series tradition, then in a game that is a love letter to the series roots they got it so right.

Edit: Have they "fixed" thunderslash in the PC version?

Lavender menace fucked around with this message at 13:59 on Aug 11, 2016

# ? Aug 11, 2016 11:10

ApplesandOranges: Jun 22, 2012; Thankee kindly.

I'd say FFX actually does the best with challenge runs - the visible manipulation of the CTB system, along with customizable equipment makes a big difference. There are countless variations on challenge runs for that game, possibly more than any other.

# ? Aug 11, 2016 12:53

Paused: Oct 24, 2010

Doing a bit of Googling it looks like the Thunder Slash 0% hit rate issue, is due to it mistakenly(?) been given an incorrect effect code, making it do 'Demi' damage, rather than Weapon Damage.
As I understand it, in theory it was supposed to add an elemental buff of total 190% of your standard attack, rather than just take 19% of the enemies max HP.
Because it doesn't do weapon damage it does not include the accuracy value of the currently equipped weapon, rather, like all status effects, its own independent accuracy value. However as it presumably it was never intended to be a 'status' attack, its accuracy value was never altered from 0.

The theory that its formula got mixed up with another ability (Iai Strike) is a bit suspect, as that abilities accuracy of 30%, is perfectly reasonable considering Vivi dark magic version with the same effects, is 35% accurate.

# ? Aug 11, 2016 13:22

Fister Roboto: Feb 21, 2008

Lavender menace posted:

Edit: Have they "fixed" thunderslash in the PC version?

Nope. Fortunately it's an easy fix on the PS version with a gameshark, so hopefully the small FF9 modding community will do something about it.

# ? Aug 11, 2016 17:18

Fenrir: Apr 26, 2005; I found my kendo stick, bitch!; Lipstick Apathy

Talk about showing up late to the party (thanks recommendation thread, I might have missed this altogether somehow)

When this game came out I almost didn't buy it, because of how utterly disappointing 8 was. I'm glad I changed my mind, because outside of the SNES games this is probably the best thing with the words Final Fantasy printed on it.

Also, I love those avatars in the OP, Mega :allears:

# ? Aug 12, 2016 10:33

Bufuman: Jun 15, 2013; Sleep in the briefing room.
At your own peril.

Fenrir posted:

Also, I love those avatars in the OP, Mega

Ditto, but so far I think I'm the only person to claim one for themselves. More people need to join me in that club. :allears:

# ? Aug 12, 2016 10:59

Simply Simon: Nov 6, 2010; 📡scanning🛰️ for good game 🎮design🦔🦔🦔

I've been looking forward to this for a long time.

quote:

Gonna preface from now on to prevent possible confusion: I'm quoting from the Excalibur 2 Perfect Game Guide! This is how not to only beat the game at low level, but to also make a speedrun of it, and how to also not miss any missable items! It's elaborate as hell and maybe slightly insane!

The preface is promising.

code:

 NOTE: This is one of the most difficult parts of this challenge, so come
       armed with plenty of patience. Although your survival still depends on
       some luck, the strategies and equipment here maximize your chances of
       survival, so the difficult thing will be getting through this segment
       quickly, rather than at all. If there's any circuit where you can just
       cut yourself some slack, then this one is definitely a major candidate.

First challenge:

code:

     .===================.                                           ____
  .--| BATTLE: BEATRIX 3 |------------------------------------------(0 AP)--.
  |  '==================='                                           ����   |
  |                                                                         |
  | � Have Steiner attack, Zidane attack, and Vivi use a Phoenix Down to    |
  |   revive Freya as necessary.                                            |
  | � Rinse and repeat.                                                     |
  | � You can also Steal once or twice, but none of the items are needed.   |
  |                                                                         |
  '-------------------------------------------------------------------------'

Makes it sound so easy...keep in mind that last time, Freya was equipped with Cover and the gang is in critical HP (using Vivi's Blizzard against the party during the Zorn&Thorn fight). This might be a more consistent strategy, I dunno.

After a painless single Bandersnatch and some equipment shuffling (including the Auto-Reflect on Zidane und Auto-Potion on everyone but Steiner, who gets Insomniac and HP +10%):

code:

 o Continue down the steps and get ready for the biggest Stop-fest in the game.

cool

code:

     .====================.                                          ____
  .--| BATTLE: TYPE C x 3 |-----------------------------------------(2 AP)--.
  |  '===================='                                          ����   |
  |                                                                         |
  | � Cast Stop non-stop >__>                                               |
  | � Have Garnet cast multi-target Silence on all the Type C's until they  |
  |   are all either Stopped or Silenced.                                   |
  | � Zidane can Steal to grab some Potion and/or Tent, and Steiner should  |
  |   Defend and throw Phoenix Down, Potion and/or Elixir if necessary.     |
  | � Concentrate your efforts on the Type C at the top of the list - for   |
  |   some reason it's stronger than the other two.                         |
  | � Rejoice if you manage to finish without having to use an Elixir!      |
  |                                                                         |
  '-------------------------------------------------------------------------'

You can multi-target Silence? Didn't even know. Also, that's a weird thing with the stronger Type C. I wonder if there's a subtle storytelling reason...or a coding fuckup.

Two more simple enough Bandersnatches (with the bigger party)...

code:

 o After this point, there's nothing you can do from a survival standpoint
   except hope that luck is on your side.
 o Everything you accomplished so far will now depend on how full Beatrix's
   and Steiner's ATB gauges will be at the start of the upcoming battles.

Yeah, that's the killer, isn't it!

Interesting tactic for the final fight:

code:

     .==========================.                                    ____
  .--| BATTLE: BANDERSNATCH x 2 |-----------------------------------(2 AP)--.
  |  '=========================='                                    ����   |
  |                                                                         |
  | � Have Steiner use an Elixir on Beatrix as soon as possible, then wait  |
  |   for him to get knocked out somehow (either by himself or an enemy)    |
  |   before using Climhazzard to end this last battle.                     |
  | � If Beatrix is knocked out, don't reset - just use a Phoenix Down.     |
  |   Steiner won't go down as quickly as it may seem if he's got the Coral |
  |   Ring and is in the back row.                                          |
  | � If Steiner is knocking himself out, open Beatrix's Seiken menu the    |
  |   moment he acts and wait to see whether he is successful as you        |
  |   wouldn't want to redo all of this if he happens to survive or miss!   |
  |   This also stops the Bandersnatches' ATB gauges from filling up during |
  |   the animation. Use Climhazzard once you see that Steiner is in fact   |
  |   knocked out.                                                          |
  |                                                                         |
  '-------------------------------------------------------------------------'

The menu thing makes sense, it might also be useful in a lot of normal gameplay situations - the animation and attack timing in FF9 is seriously fucky, sometimes I'd have queued three attacks while waiting for an animation to finish and then those would play, then the enemy get like three turns, then I'd input healing, but still more stuff would play and then counters would come and urgh. My latest replay really soured me on the combat system.

And to close this off:

code:

 o As if all this wasn't enough, you can still run into a random battle after
   regaining control of Zidane's group. Don't move before you equip him with
   the Dagger, then head for the chapel.
 o If you do get a battle, just use Flee as soon as possible; don't reset, as
   the 30-45 seconds a battle would take is little compared to how much time
   you could lose due to bad luck with Stop - not to mention real-life time.

 o Accept the letter for Monty, then finally save your game!

I think the relief is palpable. Love the respect for your real-life time though, considering what the entire affair is all about :ironicat:

# ? Aug 12, 2016 12:26

Glazius: Jul 22, 2007; Hail all those who are able,
any mouse can,
any mouse will,
but the Guard prevail.; Clapping Larry

I appreciate your going through these stunt runs, it's interesting to see what kind of mechanics you can bust out.

# ? Aug 12, 2016 12:39

Orange Fluffy Sheep: Jul 26, 2008; Bad EXP received

Simply Simon posted:

The menu thing makes sense, it might also be useful in a lot of normal gameplay situations - the animation and attack timing in FF9 is seriously fucky, sometimes I'd have queued three attacks while waiting for an animation to finish and then those would play, then the enemy get like three turns, then I'd input healing, but still more stuff would play and then counters would come and urgh. My latest replay really soured me on the combat system.

I am doing it nigh constantly in the level 1 run. Sometimes a character is designated turn-haver entirely to keep a menu open.

# ? Aug 12, 2016 13:03

FairyNuff: Jan 22, 2012

Simply Simon posted:

You can multi-target Silence? Didn't even know. Also, that's a weird thing with the stronger Type C. I wonder if there's a subtle storytelling reason...or a coding fuckup.

Is it not just like multi targeting all spells? One of the shoulder buttons on the PS1 controller.

# ? Aug 12, 2016 16:15

Kheldarn: Feb 17, 2011

That's now what Simply Simon is saying. They're saying that they didn't know Silence was a spell you could use with multi-targeting. Not all spells work that way, like Stop.

It's also something I didn't know. :v:

# ? Aug 12, 2016 16:20

Simply Simon: Nov 6, 2010; 📡scanning🛰️ for good game 🎮design🦔🦔🦔

Geokinesis posted:

Is it not just like multi targeting all spells? One of the shoulder buttons on the PS1 controller.

It's more an issue of "never cast Silence to begin with". The multitarget nature of spells varies rather wildly with Final Fantasies. Protect, for example, tends to be single-target, because there is Protectga to give the buff to everyone. Except when it doesn't exist (like in FFV). Debuffs also TEND to be single-target but apparently not in FF9. Again to compare with FF5: you have Slow and Slowga, but only Silence and no Sile...ga, which I think no FF actually has. Now I'm paranoid that Silence in FFV IS actually multi-target, but I strongly suspect not. That's what Mute is for (hits your party, too). Similar: Stop on single targets, a Bard's song for all targets, same with Confuse, and you CAN get Protect (and Shell and Float) on everyone with Mighty Guard. But Float is multi-target to begin with! It isn't even consistent in one game.

# ? Aug 12, 2016 16:23

SorataYuy: Jul 17, 2014; That... didn't even make sense.

^Silence is a status effect rather than a debuff (doesn't touch stats, which is generally what debuffs are aiming at.) I suspect status ailments have a little more flex for targeting rules per game depending on "how sharp a snap does the game balance give over the player's knee when used", with things like Silence being a bit further down on the list. A group of monsters that can't cast spells for a little while is a bit less heavily skewed towards the Party than say, a group of them that have just had their Attack and Defense numbers heavily reduced for a little while.

# ? Aug 12, 2016 17:15

MarquiseMindfang: Jan 6, 2013; vriska (vriska)

Simply Simon posted:

It's more an issue of "never cast Silence to begin with". The multitarget nature of spells varies rather wildly with Final Fantasies. Protect, for example, tends to be single-target, because there is Protectga to give the buff to everyone. Except when it doesn't exist (like in FFV). Debuffs also TEND to be single-target but apparently not in FF9. Again to compare with FF5: you have Slow and Slowga, but only Silence and no Sile...ga, which I think no FF actually has. Now I'm paranoid that Silence in FFV IS actually multi-target, but I strongly suspect not. That's what Mute is for (hits your party, too). Similar: Stop on single targets, a Bard's song for all targets, same with Confuse, and you CAN get Protect (and Shell and Float) on everyone with Mighty Guard. But Float is multi-target to begin with! It isn't even consistent in one game.

Silencega was an enemy-only spell in FFXI, along with Blindga, Bindga, Paralyga and Dispelga.

# ? Aug 12, 2016 19:03

Veks: May 12, 2012; OOOOOOH MYYY GOOOOOOOOOOOOD

FFXII has -ga versions of most of its status effect inducing spells available to the party!

# ? Aug 12, 2016 20:13

Rigged Death Trap: Feb 13, 2012; BEEP BEEP BEEP BEEP

Veks posted:

FFXII has -ga versions of most of its status effect inducing spells available to the party!

Or you can just
Nihopaloa
Remedy.

# ? Aug 12, 2016 20:17

Fenrir: Apr 26, 2005; I found my kendo stick, bitch!; Lipstick Apathy

Bufuman posted:

Ditto, but so far I think I'm the only person to claim one for themselves. More people need to join me in that club.

I'm honestly considering one, but I've had Thor Matthews here for over five and a half years, change is hard.

Also, if I'd have been aware of this LP a year ago I'd have posted this about ten times by now: Steiner owns. He might just be the best character in the entire Final Fantasy series.

# ? Aug 13, 2016 00:02

Schwartzcough: Aug 12, 2009; Don't tease the Octopus, kids!

So random thought- does the Tantalus band ever show up again after the Evil Forest at the beginning of the game? I'm thinking Baku might've abandoned them to die (or eaten them to stay alive; don't know how long they were trapped there).

# ? Aug 13, 2016 00:21

Fenrir: Apr 26, 2005; I found my kendo stick, bitch!; Lipstick Apathy

Schwartzcough posted:

So random thought- does the Tantalus band ever show up again after the Evil Forest at the beginning of the game? I'm thinking Baku might've abandoned them to die (or eaten them to stay alive; don't know how long they were trapped there).

How far have you read through the LP?

# ? Aug 13, 2016 00:28

Schwartzcough: Aug 12, 2009; Don't tease the Octopus, kids!

Fenrir posted:

How far have you read through the LP?

All of it. Sounds like there was a scene I forgot. Alrighty then.

Edit: Yeah, just to clarify, I'm talking about the nameless band members who played actual musical instruments. I really don't remember them showing up again after they play Rufus' march theme from FFVII to lighten the mood in the Evil Forest.

Schwartzcough fucked around with this message at 00:48 on Aug 13, 2016

# ? Aug 13, 2016 00:36

Xander77: Apr 6, 2009; Fuck it then. For another pit sandwich and some 'tater salad, I'll post a few more.

Fenrir posted:

How far have you read through the LP?

He's talking about the guys who aren't Blanc and Marcus.

# ? Aug 13, 2016 00:46

Fenrir: Apr 26, 2005; I found my kendo stick, bitch!; Lipstick Apathy

Well, there were ATE's of the band while the party was in Lindblum, and Cinna/Marcus are in the first update of Disc 2 - Cinna is just going the other way. Marcus joins the party since Dagger wants to help find a cure for Blank. There was also a letter from Ruby in there somewhere. If you started the LP last year when Mega first started writing it, yeah, there's a lot of time loss, but in the game this isn't that much of a distance.

e: Oh, you meant specifically the *band*

My bad, I thought you meant Tantalus in general. Okay, I'll be honest, I have no idea and the last time I played the game was just too drat long ago to remember.

If they DO show back up I hope Mega shows that off, because I think I might have missed it even though I beat this game at least like 7 times. Or I saw it and just glazed over it. Last time I played this game was probably around 2008, and that was a 11-hour Excal2 run.

e2: VVV Yep, no idea.

Fenrir fucked around with this message at 00:58 on Aug 13, 2016

# ? Aug 13, 2016 00:53

Schwartzcough: Aug 12, 2009; Don't tease the Octopus, kids!

Fenrir posted:

Well, there were ATE's of the band while the party was in Lindblum, and Cinna/Marcus are in the first update of Disc 2 - Cinna is just going the other way. Marcus joins the party since Dagger wants to help find a cure for Blank. There was also a letter from Ruby in there somewhere. If you started the LP last year when Mega first started writing it, yeah, there's a lot of time loss, but in the game this isn't that much of a distance.

Right, but I was talking about the guys who played music. Not Ruby/Marcus/Cinna/Blank. These guys:

Mega64 posted:

# ? Aug 13, 2016 00:56

Mega64: May 23, 2008; I took the octopath less travelered,

And it made one-eighth the difference.

They followed Gilgamesh into the Void and ended up in FF7 where Rufus loved one of their songs so much he made the band play it for his inauguration.

# ? Aug 13, 2016 00:59

Krumbsthumbs: Oct 23, 2010; 2nd Place.
1st Loser.

They're fine. In one of the ATEs where Baku, Marcus and Cinna get out of the forest and find a healing spring. Baku mentions bringing all the wounded and the rest of the members to said spring.

But Mega's response is far better and is now canon.

# ? Aug 13, 2016 01:01

David Corbett: Feb 6, 2008; Courage, my friends; 'tis not too late to build a better world.

Dastardly posted:

.

Speaking of Ralvurahva. After looking at it's artwork I think it's pretty darn safe to assume that it's in process of shedding it's skin and that Ralvuimago is it's shedded form. You can see patches of it's skin being ripped open with green skin underneath and the gasmask looking potrusions are the red feelers/tusks curled up.

I'd put money on it. The "imago" is a technical term for an adult insect. Take "Rahva" and strip out the accent, and what do you get? Larva. (I presume we missed out on Ralvupupa because a sessile enemy would be a bit boring!) Glad someone else thought of this - I had always just assumed that the two were a pallet swap!

# ? Aug 13, 2016 01:37

ApplesandOranges: Jun 22, 2012; Thankee kindly.

David Corbett posted:

I'd put money on it. The "imago" is a technical term for an adult insect. Take "Rahva" and strip out the accent, and what do you get? Larva. (I presume we missed out on Ralvupupa because a sessile enemy would be a bit boring!) Glad someone else thought of this - I had always just assumed that the two were a pallet swap!

Taking "Rahva" out gets you... Ralvu? Lvura? (I get it, I assume you just typoed)

As for the band, my personal guess is that they followed Ruby - she needs a band for her stage after all, right? And if they're injured they have no business following Baku around.

# ? Aug 13, 2016 01:52

Orange Fluffy Sheep: Jul 26, 2008; Bad EXP received

CHAPTER TWELVE: "Hey the " guy said. It was having bad day. "Sorry" and so Gitan went to his gargant and he flew away to be by himself at the outer continent.

This update is skipping over the middle section of Disc 2 where nothing notable really happens.

After the gauntlet, this guy is a total breather.

He can waste his time with moves like this.

I mean, Mini does decrease Kukri's damage, but, uh, it goes from like 17 to 7.

Mostly you can shove this guy in a loop of becoming compact while stealing his possessions (to sell for $ naturally) then Papito Bios him to hell. You know, if you don't just compact him to death.

However, the fight is so dull you might forget that you need to wait for him to decompact before hitting again. Or maybe your brain is fried from the gauntlet and you tried to take the fight too casually.

Earth Power (15 PP 90 power ground/special 10% -1 special defense) is an auto-wipe in most circumstances. Desert Boots would allow Gitan to make it, but, eh.

Let's try it again and not

...hit him while compact.

The THIRD try, Gitan steals everything of value while Kukri keeps him compact, and Papito focuses until Bio smacks for 1/3 of the damage cap.

Leave.

Yes. Go away.

Here's a piece of poo poo I'm not going to use! Trouble is a useless status to add and by the time Gitan needs to hit something I'll have the next thief sword.

There's also other items I'm not going to use for assorted reasons like Cura being completely redundant when the highest possible HP value anyone can hit at level 1 is 158.

Quark, ol' buddy! You up for one last Limit Glove oneshot? Don't worry baby, that poo poo's gonna be our A-game until the game is up.

I grab a few frogs for reasons I myself do not adequately understand.

Then I grind AP by stopping things around the area.

I get a lot of Kukri's utility spells, Gitan masters Flee and Soul Blade so I have a lot more freedom with his weapon selection, Papito masters Bio and Stop so he can use whatever from here on out, and everyone masters Auto-Potion.

Evading Armodullahan is no problem.

Then the last boss for a good chunk of the game, Lani.

Lani hates Kukri and chops her. Sometimes she casts a spell at her. Rarely she instagibs the entire party with Water. It didn't happen to me this time, thankfully.

Hell yes, that's a 1/16 chance and it saves 2,700 Gil to get it here.

Gitan and Papito take turns reviving Kukri (since Lani is extremely fast).

Quark auto-lifes themself.

Quark kills themself.

Quark ends the fight.

Cherish it, this is the last Limit Glove OHKO. Next time Quark gets to fight a boss it'll have over 10k HP.

Fossil Roo is no big deal. I get all the treasure but the Madain's Ring. Not that I didn't try.

This time I use the Microsoft Default Font to get pretty far before random encounters start.

I get a few more frogs in this marsh. Not many since it's kinda hard.

Eh, got another reward. Good enough.

This is the only new chocograph for disc 2 and it is disappointing. Diamond Gloves are good but... uh... Gitan and friends let their palms breathe.

Peridots totally have Ramuh even if you tell him to shove it at Pinnacle Rocks.

OH MY GOD GITAN NO HE IS A CHILD

New gear. Most notable here are the hats. The Ritual Hat in particular has 1 defense.

This challenge would be a lot more complicated if it weren't for that 1 defense.

At least the friendly monsters remember there's another continent in disc 2.

Gitan gets Alert and Bandit as his big steals. Kukri gets Ramuh entirely to mock him.

This is Gitan's best weapon for the rest of the disc. Grow to love it, as it's mandatory (loving it is, I imagine the Explodia or a Gladius could still work).

I don't bother to synth the Madain's Ring here. This will give me a few headaches in the future, in retrospect (I'm halfway through disc 3 as of this update so some of the future for you all is in the past for me).

Queen Stella is gonna make me so rich, I might actually be able to afford equipment!

"B-but I've never killed anyone!"
"You leave them frozen in some sort of eternal stasis, though, which is kinda hosed up."

Oh my god I heard Profit and Lace was a bad episode but I didn't imagine it went there

REGISTER OF RESETS:
One to Tidal Flame Garnet for the hell of it; Unknown number lost to plant spiders spawn numbers; died to Flans without Flee; Untimely crit pushed Sealion to fatally Blizzara; less work to suicide on optional Type A fight than to win or reset; incredible number of resets for phoenix down RNG; and then again; Marcus gained levels; Snared by the Mandragoras leaving Quan's Dwelling; Only one on a pointless phoenix down rng; Antlion did not cooperate; Again, Antlion did not cooperate; Soldiers beaten too hard once; twice; thrice; Gitan lied Cleyrans died; Tinhank and Marcus didn't make it; bonus fourth Soldier beating; Alexandrian Gauntlet toll: Beatrix 3, Beatrix vs Bandersnatch 2, Beatrix vs Bandersnatch 1, Beatrix 3; Knuckleheaded death to Ralvuimago; Actually two of them.

# ? Aug 13, 2016 03:18

Glazius: Jul 22, 2007; Hail all those who are able,
any mouse can,
any mouse will,
but the Guard prevail.; Clapping Larry

Now I am morbidly curious how that 1 defense hat is going to be key to some harebrained scheme.

# ? Aug 13, 2016 05:37

NikkolasKing: Apr 3, 2010

Fister Roboto posted:

Nope. Fortunately it's an easy fix on the PS version with a gameshark, so hopefully the small FF9 modding community will do something about it.

I've played two mods of FFIX (or hacks I guess you'd call them since they were on the PS version) and they both fixed Thunder Slash. Also fixed Fairy Flute Steal %. With Hades Workshop I would hope the good modding community can do a lot more.

Of course, HW also allows more...erm, to be polite "amateurish" modders to screw with things. I tried playing a third mod amde with this tool and it was a bit lame compared to the other two. It did actually make Vivi interesting though in that it changed Focus. Vivi is the most boring (if effective) character in the game.

Every Boss Fight With Vivi:
Zidane: Keep Stealing
Everyone Else: Keep Defending or Healing
Vivi: Focus
After everything has been stolen, Vivi destroys boss all on his own. The stupid troll boss with the Fairy Flute does in about 4 or 5 turns of Focus'ed Bio but of course I can't just win in two minutes, I have to prolong the fight to steal everything because that is the real challenge.

# ? Aug 13, 2016 08:59

Simply Simon: Nov 6, 2010; 📡scanning🛰️ for good game 🎮design🦔🦔🦔

quote:

Gonna preface from now on to prevent possible confusion: I'm quoting from the Excalibur 2 Perfect Game Guide! This is how not to only beat the game at low level, but to also make a speedrun of it, and how to also not miss any missable items! It's elaborate as hell and maybe slightly insane!

OFS ground a lot off-screen in his update, I strongly suspect that this is a major point of divergence; there is no time for that in an Excalibur 2 run. Let's see!

Ralvuimago is indeed a non-issue, with one notable point:

code:

  | � Make sure you Steal the Adaman Vest (64/256) - you will soon need it  |
  |   for fighting Lani.                                                    |

Then, as we've already seen, but for posterity:

code:

 o Pinnacle Rocks is theoretically skippable, but since you're collecting all
   the treasure, you may as well get the story pieces; they're right next to
   the chests, after all.

This of course needs to be done because it is very deliberately an Excalibur 2 AND perfect game guide. And you cannot revisit Pinnacle Rocks.

Everything until leaving Lindblum is indeed uninteresting, though the guide of course painstakingly notes every single thing you have to collect and buy on the way.
I want to include this tidbit and hope that the minor spoilers it contains are okay, because I find it such a completely inconsequential thing to even think about, but naturally, the author did and it feels like he agonized over it. Two whole minutes!

code:

                                                        __________________
  .----------------------------------------------------/ MOGUTA's ELIXIR /--.
  |                                                    ������������������   |
  | * You may want to make a short detour to Gizamaluke's Grotto and give   |
  |   Moguta a Kupo Nut. The first one you give him on Disc 2 is rewarded   |
  |   with an Elixir, which, while not quite a unique treasure, IS a unique |
  |   reward from Moguta.                                                   |
  |                                                                         |
  | * All other Kupo Nut rewards are a random item out of 3, except this    |
  |   Elixir and an Extension on Disc 3, both of which count toward your    |
  |   Treasure Hunting Rank. The Extension can be picked up in around 30    |
  |   seconds while doing something else, but this Elixir requires an extra |
  |   2 minutes. The target times do include this.                          |
  |                                                         _________       |
  '--------------------------------------------------------/ + 2:00 /-------'
                                                           ���������

Lani has a completely different and interesting strategy:

code:

     .==============.                                                ____
  .--| BATTLE: LANI |-----------------------------------------------(0 AP)--.
  |  '=============='                                                ����   |
  |                                                                         |
  | � Simply have Vivi attack Zidane for a guaranteed 18 damage, then fire  |
  |   off with Lucky Seven to (with some luck) promptly end the battle!     |
  |                                                                         |
  '-------------------------------------------------------------------------'

I think this might be the first actual use for that ability. As a reminder (I hope I don't get this wrong myself), Lucky Seven works only of Zidane's HP number ends on a 7, then it does 7, 77, 777 or 7777 damage.
It is worth noting that this 25% chance to win the battle immediately (IF Lani plays along) comes AFTER the entire escape from Armodullahan, and even still after trudging through the Marsh itself, as the last save is outside on the world map. This isn't even mentioned as a problem so far; after the Gauntlet, it probably doesn't even register, but in a vacuum, it is still quite A Thing.
Which doesn't stop, by the way. OFS doesn't care about it, but we, oh, we do.

code:

 o Now comes the "hard" part: run all the way back to the entrance to get the
   Elixir from Armodullahan's cage and return to go on.
 o Before you go to fetch the Elixir, revive your party, optimize Zidane, and
   equip him with the Dagger and Vivi with the Ice Staff and Silk Robe. Then
   optimize the others' equipment and activate everyone's Insomniac abilities
   (from Bandana or Coral Ring) as well as Vivi's Loudmouth.
 o The 3-part path with the swinging blades actually counts as one long screen
   and so it is virtually impossible to make it to the Elixir and back with no
   random battles. The target times assume 5 encounters, but it's possible to
   make it through with just 4, and acceptable if you get 6.

All of that for a single loving Elixir, but I assume it's simply not gettable after a point, and would be a huge detour until then. This is immediately after the Lani fight, so there still hasn't been an opportunity to save. I would be sitting on the burnest of coals if I had to do this, but I save obsessively like a loving madman. Maybe after all the poo poo you had to do until that point, it doesn't even register anymore.
Oh, but that's not the only thing here!

code:

 o You need Quina to learn Night along the way, so encounter a party of 2
   Abomination. Cast Blizzara on 1 of them to be able to Eat it successfully.
   You should do this while getting the Elixir to make the most of the battles
   you'll have. You can also learn Night by Eating a Seeker Bat, but it's
   easier to learn it from Abomination.

That's a pretty common encounter, though, so again, barely registers. But: another tiny thing that can go wrong!

We do get thrown a bone:

code:

NOTE: If you are running very late and don't anticipate yourself making up
       any time in future circuits, then you may want to consider skipping the
       Elixir in Fossil Roo. This is most definitely a sacrifice on your part,
       but if you can live with having missed 1 treasure, then this is the
       best opportunity to save time in the entire game when you consider what
       you have to sacrifice; you'll save around 7 minutes at the cost of a
       common Elixir. However, the target times assume that you pick it up.

       Likewise, you could skip the Elixir (what a coincidence) from Moguta.

"most definitely a sacrifice". Worth it for sanity? Eeeeeeeeeh that choice has been made quite a while ago, no?

There is no mention of the Madain's Ring, thankfully; the pickaxe can go gently caress itself.
We will pick up again in the Black Mage village!

# ? Aug 13, 2016 10:51

ApplesandOranges: Jun 22, 2012; Thankee kindly.

I can't remember, but it's possible that the entrance to Fossil Roo through the marsh might disappear after we hit the Outer Continent. If that's the case, then it's much faster to get the Elixir now, rather than backtrack all the way from the entrance from the Outer Continent.

EDIT: Went and checked and Fossil Roo does become inaccessible after Disc 3.

ApplesandOranges fucked around with this message at 13:09 on Aug 13, 2016

# ? Aug 13, 2016 13:06

MelvinBison: Nov 17, 2012; "Is this the ideal world that you envisioned?"
"I guess you could say that."; Pillbug

Orange Fluffy Sheep posted:

"B-but I've never killed anyone!"
"You leave them frozen in some sort of eternal stasis, though, which is kinda hosed up."

Either way they've "stopped moving."

# ? Aug 13, 2016 18:24

Bufuman: Jun 15, 2013; Sleep in the briefing room.
At your own peril.

ApplesandOranges posted:

I can't remember, but it's possible that the entrance to Fossil Roo through the marsh might disappear after we hit the Outer Continent. If that's the case, then it's much faster to get the Elixir now, rather than backtrack all the way from the entrance from the Outer Continent.

EDIT: Went and checked and Fossil Roo does become inaccessible after Disc 3.

Does it now? I could've sworn you could still get in. I know you can at least reach the entrance because that's where one of the moogles for the Mognet sidequest resides. I do recall seeing a stipulation that Quina has to be in your party to get there, was s/he on your team when you tested that out?

# ? Aug 13, 2016 18:56

Southhouse-: Oct 15, 2012

Bufuman posted:

Does it now? I could've sworn you could still get in. I know you can at least reach the entrance because that's where one of the moogles for the Mognet sidequest resides. I do recall seeing a stipulation that Quina has to be in your party to get there, was s/he on your team when you tested that out?

That moogle normally resides somewhere else, Lindblum Castle I think. Fossil Roo is definitely inaccessible after a certain point.

# ? Aug 13, 2016 20:32

morallyobjected: Nov 3, 2012

Bufuman posted:

Does it now? I could've sworn you could still get in. I know you can at least reach the entrance because that's where one of the moogles for the Mognet sidequest resides. I do recall seeing a stipulation that Quina has to be in your party to get there, was s/he on your team when you tested that out?

I'm pretty sure there's a gate that shuts

# ? Aug 13, 2016 20:44

Mega64: May 23, 2008; I took the octopath less travelered,

And it made one-eighth the difference.

We've finally got two updates worth of plot out of the way.

Now let's go back in!

I hate to say this, but our village could use some capital. I'll have to charge you for this.

I have over 150k gil right now so I don't really give a gently caress.

For some reason I must've crafted away all the Multina Rackets I had so I buy Eiko one to learn Stona and Shell.

There's also a new item called the Magic Tag that cures Zombie. Unlike other games, you don't lose control of a character when they're inflicted with Zombie, but they can't be healed (except by instant death attacks), they can't be revived, they can't use Trance (big loss there), and more importantly cannot gain EXP or AP. Pretty annoying ability, so not a bad idea to stock up on ways to cure it.

Otherwise nothing new here. Quina's content to eat new fish instead of getting off its rear end and helping us.

Now we're going the other direction from the mountain path, north instead of east.

We're in the overworld in a different section, and this actually means there's let another friendly monster to meet.

Meet Nymph.

She wants Ore.

But she's really greedy and wants three Ore. Again, I've got more of this crap than I know what to do with.

This will be the last one for Disc 2.

30AP and an Emerald. Definitely helps with catching Eiko up to speed!

Interestingly enough, Eiko can equip Phoenix Pinions. This teaches her another summon, Phoenix. Let's check it out!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2uwzQpDnvDY

Phoenix has been around since FF5, and appears in every game between that and FF9. Its appearances usually have to do with something that dies and is reborn. The staple item Phoenix Down are generally the feathers from the Phoenix.

In most games, including this one, Phoenix does fire damage to all enemies while reviving any fallen party members. Its base power is 40, slightly weaker than Fenrir, and unfortunately unlike the other summons you cannot boost it from there with gems or any Phoenix items, so you generally won't be using it for damage. As for fallen party members, they'll recover 3/10 their max HP plus (Spirit * MaxHP)/100. There's an ability later on that boosts healing, and it doubles the HP recovered from Phoenix.

There's also a nice secondary benefit for Phoenix, in that if you party gets wiped there's a chance Phoenix completely revives them, as long as Eiko is in the party. It's related to the number of Phoenix Pinions in your party, namely Pinions/256 chance. Naturally, this means you have at max a 99/256 or 38.7% chance of being revived from a party wipe. It has a separate animation and I'll show that if I actually get the opportunity to.

That's enough distractions, let's get to the final dungeon of Disc 2. Despite this, there will still be three or four updates after we're done here.

First off, listen to this music. It's quite unlike anything we've heard before. There's already something weird about this place.

So this place really must be the source of the Mist.

Yeah, this weird protected tree is producing the Mist that covers the Mist Continent. There's already some warning bells going off here.

Vivi trips take a shot.

...I-I'm fine.

What was that?

That was the seal. It shouldn't hurt you, but are you alright?

Yeah, it didn't hurt.

I think the choice here is obvious.

Sorry it's so choppy since the Mist really fucks with the file size, but I had to show this off.

No wonder the dwarves of Conde Petie call this place a Sanctuary. Did you say they used the power of an eidolon to seal this place?

I'm going to ask the eidolon to come back.

It's hard to see in screenshots, but Eiko has a horn sticking out from her head. In FF3 and FF5, Summoners have horns but generally they're more decorative than anything, helping stand the job out a bit from the other magic jobs. In FF9, they help the summoner communicate with eidolons. Note that Dagger doesn't have a horn.

Watch!

By the light of our spirits! I call upon thee! Answer my call! Wherever your soul may be!

The Ruby teaches Reflect and Carbuncle, Eiko's third possible summon of four. Yeah, she's already at 75% of her summons while Dagger still only has one. I don't think to show it off during Disc 2, so it'll be awhile until we see it in action, but Carbuncle has some neat gimmicks attached to it. Initially, it'll buff your party with Reflect, as it usually does in the series, but if the long animation plays it'll also grant Protect. And depending on the gemstone you equip Eiko with, Reflect could be replaced with Vanish (Diamond), Haste (Emerald), or Shell (Moonstone). Pretty useful buff machine, or at least it would be if buffs didn't wear off so quickly in this game.

Thanks!

Was that the spell to break the seal?

Nope. All I do is focus my thoughts into the horn.

Then why were you...?

The spell is actually much longer, but the eidolon asked me to hurry it up.

Alright. Let's go!

With that, we can finally enter the Iifa Tree.

The first few screens are pretty boring, just walking around on roots as we get closer to the tree.

The enemies here are not annoying for once, namely because you can actually cheese all of them easily.

This is Stroper, which appears as a plant enemy in FF3 and FF5 but is a bit more of a giant flopping penis monster here.

Seriously, tell me you don't see a bunch of dicks sprouting from a massive dick. Anyway, it can do physical damage to all characters with Sweep, and also can inflict Silence and Gradual Petrify.

As I said, you can cheese all the random encounters here, and Stroper is no different. One Soft will instantly kill it. Note that the spell Stona won't work.

Apparently these guys can use FF staple Blue Magic spell Roulette, which randomly kills one person, friend or foe. Of course, foes in this case are undead so it's all bad since it'll fully heal the zombies.

On the other hand they're undead so healing magic like Cura wrecks them, plus Life instantly kills them.

After a few screens, we get some different scenery.

And eventually get to a save moogle.

Sad eyes? Weight of the world? Is that very heavy? Kupo?

At the end is this weird platform.

Looks old. I wonder who built it?

Gosh, you look so helpless. Why don't you stay here and let us handle the rest?

No, I'm going with you guys! I have to.

Then don't leave my side, okay?

O-Okay. Thanks.

Nope. This is my first time inside the Iifa Tree.

This place looks ancient...

Let's ask Eiko!

What do you think, Eiko?

Maybe...try standing on it?

Alright, then!

I'll be fine. Don't worry!

Here it comes again.

I'll call you guys over if everything is alright.

I'm coming with you!

Me, too.

M-Me, too.

Okay, we'll all go.

Anyway, after that team-building exercise we find ourselves getting closer to the depths of the tree.

One last enemy. These guys can be nasty, using Zombie Breath to inflict Zombie and using L5 Death to kill people with unlucky levels.

They're also undead, shockingly enough.

There's a couple buttons that bring down treasure chests. That one's just a random consumable.

This one actually drops a chest in the previous screen, so it's easy to miss.

Which kinda sucks because the Healing Rod is a nice weapon for Dagger.

Like in other games, the Healing Rod has a gimmick where attacking with it actually heals the target, making it useful to top off your party members. It's also useful in this dungeon where a good chunk of randoms are undead.

In addition to Cura and Life, it teaches the Healer passive, which gives the healing trait of the Healing Rod to all weapons Dagger uses. It renders Dagger much more helpful in random encounters since her physicals aren't generally useful anyway, plus it's very cheap at only two stones.

Of course, Dagger's kicking rear end with randoms this dungeon thanks to the Life spell.

A new weapon for Eiko. Teaches Float, Stona, and Silence, all of which I've already mastered from other equipment.

This place looks totally different.

This is totally unlike anything we've seen so far, that's for sure.

Hmm... Maybe it'll move like the last one...

It didn't move when I got on...

You stood on it!?

Why don't we all try getting on?

HMMMMMMMMMMM. Completely bizarre area where something only responds to the main character with a mysterious past.

Yep, there may be something up with this place beyond "It's a tree."

Then the weird leaf thing spirals downward.

It sure freaked me out at first, but there's no wind or anything... I guess that glowing powder is stopping the wind somehow.

Yes... I wonder where we're going.

Yeah...me, too.

Kupo...

Really?

Kupo!

Alright... Thanks!

Kupopo!

Um, Mog senses a lot of life beneath us. Moogles are faeries, so they sense life everywhere, but Mog says there's a whole lot here!

I wonder if agents of Kuja are down there...

But what's the connection between Kuja and the Mist?

Incoming!

Forced fight with a couple of zombies. No biggie.

Could the Mist be causing it?

Beats me... The Evil Forest and Gargan Roo had unique monsters, too.

But if the Mist comes from this tree, how come it only appears on Zidane's continent?

I guess there has to be something that channels the Mist.

Yes, but the question is, why?

Zidane...

Hmm? What's the matter?

What's wrong, Vivi? You've been lost in thought for a while.

Oh, Zidane... I've been thinking about the Mist.

Yes, the factory where black mages were being made?

Huh? Black mages?

Dagger!

Oh! I'm sorry! I didn't mean to...

Vivi...

Oh, yeah... There was a huge machine filled with Mist.

That's right. And there were those strange eggs we saw.

There's a lot we don't really know about the Mist, that mysterious substance that so covers the main continent of the game that it's literally called the Mist Continent. We know prolonged exposure is harmful to humans, and it seems to warp the wildlife that lives within it. But it seems nobody really bothered to look into it, or at least never had success doing so. The most people have done is use it to run airships and build their cities above it. But now that Zidane and company may have found the actual source of Mist, they obviously want to figure out why this bizarre tree is spitting out the Mist to another continent, and how Kuja is involved in this. And Vivi, of course, is interested in the relationship between the Mist and the creation of Black Mages.

Of course, it's all questions and no real answers right now, so might as well sit back and enjoy the ride.

Another forced encounter. We life it back to death.

It's so deep!

I don't know what's down there...but we'll soon find out!

-----

Are you gonna make a helpless little girl like me go all by herself!?

Mog said he sensed life down here. Do you sense anything?

Yeah, but you sense it, too, don't you? We don't even need Mog to tell us that there's life down here.

You're right. I can tell there's something down here.

FADE TO CREEPY ECHO SOUNDS

It's not going to stop getting any weirder, apparently.

Now we've got control of Zidane, so let's check with our party members and explore a bit.

Machine? What do you mean, 'machine'?

Well, it sure doesn't look like any normal tree.

Yeah. It's weird enough that the inside of a tree looks like this.

The tree being a massive machine kinda makes some sense, but is there anyone that could've actually made something this intricate and bizarre? Seriously, what the hell is with this thing?

Maybe the Mist comes from that water down there?

The Iifa Tree being a machine would better explain the Mist, at least.

So, that sparkling water is a living thing? It's so pretty.

Don't see the harm.

Really!? Okay, come here!

But... I can see it fine from here.

Hehehe...

Eiko is pretty drat similar personality-wise to Zidane. Both gung-ho and confident, both protective and putting on a brave face to protect their friends, and of course both using really cheesy and dumb pick-up lines because they don't know any better in how to relate to people.

(Hmmm... I'd better go easy on her from now on.)

And because Zidane has finally got exposed to how he comes off, the hint finally sinks in that, uh, maybe he shouldn't talk like a creepy rear end in a top hat constantly.

Character development can occur in the weirdest places.

This baby is a nice get, as it finally teaches Zidane Ability Up. Not that he's needed it due to being in the party for so long, but at this point both Vivi and Dagger have learned every single ability possible thanks to that passive, and Eiko's getting kinda close, needing just a few more add-ons. Zidane's also close, but now he can get a good bit closer with this.

Shame he can't use Return Magic, which casts any magic that hits a character with it back on that enemy.

We're done here, so let's go to this corner to advance the plot.

Just my imagination.

Or maybe we have to go down there?

What's up?

M-Mog's saying...

Dagger!!!

I'm sorry! I was just startled. Is something wrong?

We'd better go, too! Can you stand?

Yes, let's go.

You're right... It's like it's alive!

It's here!

What was that!?

Huh? What's going on? I can hear a voice inside my head!

You just said Kuja! Where is he!?

What are you doing here!?

Are you the one who makes the Mist!?

Discharged?

So it's sent to other continents through the roots, right?

But why!? Why would you do that!?

This, in turn, leads to war among the leaders of nations, and then to the fall of civilization. Kuja merely puts the by-product to a different use.

Wait, Eiko! What kind of weapons did Kuja make?

Defeat me, and no more Mist will flow. And then no more weapons like this puppet here will be made.

Why, you-

......

Vivi?

Way to go, Vivi! I know it must be hard for you. We can knock off this rat now, right?

You cannot stop me. It is futile even to try.

We're finally done with the revelatory dialogue, so now we're going to fight Soulcage proper.

It leads the fight off with L5 Death, which unfortunately hits Zidane and Vivi. Luckily the two people who can cast Life are left standing and within a round we're back up to normal.

It has a few other nasty attacks. Leaf Swirl does a small bit of damage to the party, Shockwave slightly more, plus it can use Fira and inflict Heat status with Mustard Bomb. It also has a gimmick where if you cast Fire on it, it will start spamming a really powerful attack at a much higher speed, so don't do that apparently.

It's vulnerable to Blind and Slow as usual.

Haste as a spell kinda sucks because Haste doesn't last long. Like other spells, Haste wears off after a period of time, and Haste happens to speed up the wear-off period as well. Go figure! Still, might as well use it on Zidane so he can steal more quickly. Not that the steals are essential.

All that said, Soulcage is a chump for two reasons. First of all, he's vulnerable to Sleep.

So we can just steal with reckless abandon without fear of attack.

The best steal is a second Brigandine, which we want despite Zidane being the only person who can wear it. The other stuff, the Oak Staff and Magician Cloak, are things we can already buy anyway.

The other thing is Soulcage is Undead. Life will kill it pretty drat easily.

I show some mercy and simply Cura/Bio it to death. It has slightly less than 10k HP so it doesn't take very long to do so.

And with that, we've killed the entity controlling the Iifa Tree.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MqljxHO5xQw

It's hard to show off in screenshots, but yes, the Mist is gone. There's no more Mist on the Mist Continent. Of course, this sucks for all the businesses that rely on Mist to run airships, but the world's safer at least, so it's a nice trade-off, right?

Somehow I don't see people thinking that to be a good thing in our world.

At any rate, we're finally done with this creepy-rear end tree. Now to sit back and wait for Kuja.

Next time, we do something that isn't that.

# ? Aug 14, 2016 16:06

Rigged Death Trap: Feb 13, 2012; BEEP BEEP BEEP BEEP

And thus, Lindblum held an iron fisted monopoly for the next two centuries on airships.

# ? Aug 14, 2016 16:41

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# ? Jun 7, 2024 00:39

Squarely Circle: Jul 28, 2010; things worsen and worsen

Between L5 Death, Mustard Bomb, and the fire spam attack I remember Soulcage completely pushing my poo poo in the first time I ever played this game, to the point where I still get a little tense for no reason whenever I do this part. Cool boss design though, I really enjoy how creepy and alien the Iifa Tree is compared to everything we've seen so far.

# ? Aug 14, 2016 17:00

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Let's Play! > Final Fantasy IX - Steiner says "Princess" 89 times on the first disc

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