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Moridin920 posted:well, again, if all you pay attention to is dumb internet poo poo then sure Applewhite posted:Unfortunately dumb internet poo poo is having an increasingly large influence on serious real world poo poo. See also: safe spaces on college campuses, the mass shooting meme, and Donald Trump. This. Before it would just be dumb Internet poo poo, but what makes it different is that nowadays, almost everyone uses the Internet. These things spread like viruses. Dumb Internet poo poo is spewing out into real life because 1) everyone uses the Internet now and 2) people are dumb. I actually see people who subscribe to this kind of poo poo, in real life, in person, outside of the Internet, and all the time. You say that Jezebel, Everydayfeminism and Buzzfeed are not the face of the movement, but what happens when they're the loudest, most obnoxious and well-known parts? That are also frequently quoted as gospel by those who might be less well-versed than those who study it academically? When that kind of feminism becomes more popular than say, academic, moderate feminism, which becomes the true face of feminism? GET IN THE ROBOT fucked around with this message at 16:38 on Aug 15, 2016 |
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Aug 15, 2016 16:36
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Moridin920 posted:who cares about bathroom you weirdos it's already illegal to be a weirdo sexual predator creep in a bathroom why does there need to be special protection for icked out manly men? as if anyone is trying to scope your tiny dil anyway Because if you establish a legal "defense" to being a weirdo sexual predator creep, then weirdo sexual predator creeps will attempt to and--knowing how litigious we are--succeed in doing just that. This is America, after all.
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Aug 15, 2016 16:37
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8-Bit Scholar posted:Because if you establish a legal "defense" to being a weirdo sexual predator creep, then weirdo sexual predator creeps will attempt to and--knowing how litigious we are--succeed in doing just that. This is America, after all. yeah pretty sure being trans doesn't suddenly give you license to sexually harass people Gammatron 64 posted:You say that Jezebel, Everydayfeminism and Buzzfeed are not the face of the movement, but what happens when they're the loudest, most obnoxious and well-known parts? But they're not loving nobody I know irl even knows what those are let alone takes their cues from them. Sorry but some dumb internet poo poo just is dumb internet poo poo. You guys are like panicked grandparents on Facebook forwarding dumb panic emails. Gammatron 64 posted:When that kind of feminism becomes more popular than say, academic, moderate feminism, which becomes the true face of feminism? When what people who think women should be cloned and eradicate men are the true face of feminism in academic moderate circles? Do you really think that's a possibility my dogs
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Aug 15, 2016 16:40
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8-Bit Scholar posted:Because if you establish a legal "defense" to being a weirdo sexual predator creep, then weirdo sexual predator creeps will attempt to and--knowing how litigious we are--succeed in doing just that. This is America, after all. That's why all bathroom laws are idiotic. Men's and women's restrooms are a social convention. It's never been illegal for a male identifying male to use a ladies' room any tiime he wants, it's just highly discouraged by social convention. Codifying this stuff into law only invites confusion.
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Aug 15, 2016 16:41
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Applewhite posted:It's never been illegal for a male identifying male to use a ladies' room any tiime he wants, it's just highly discouraged by social convention. eh that's not quite as cut and dry as you think it is
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Aug 15, 2016 16:44
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Applewhite posted:Codifying this stuff into law only invites confusion. Yes, 100 percent, and precisely my point. There's no way where making this a law will not result in a lot more problems than solutions. This isn't a legal issue, it's a cultural one. VVVV -- Less laws is good. Read the Tao Te Ching
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Aug 15, 2016 16:44
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8-Bit Scholar posted:Yes, 100 percent, and precisely my point. then educate yourself because you foolios are wrong when you say that
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Aug 15, 2016 16:45
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Moridin920 posted:then educate yourself because you foolios are wrong when you say that Nope
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Aug 15, 2016 16:45
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it varies wildly state by state and municipality by municipality dumbos
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Aug 15, 2016 16:45
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Moridin920 posted:eh that's not quite as cut and dry as you think it is Sorry pls post the bathroom law.
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Aug 15, 2016 16:46
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Aug 15, 2016 16:46
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Applewhite posted:Sorry pls post the bathroom law. Uh okay. If I own a building and then I am allowed to set the rules/protocols within the scope of the law for it and if you violate those I am allowed to call the police and have you arrested for trespassing or disorderly conduct. According to my building rules, men aren't allowed in women's restrooms except the night crew janitors. There you go, a situation where it is illegal for a male to use a women's restroom. If there are no laws to say otherwise, I'm perfectly within my rights as the building owner to do this.
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Aug 15, 2016 16:49
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Bathroom law is dumb, who the gently caress cares where people are allowed to poop and pee. Hell, I whip out my cock and take a piss outside all the time. Not just in the country mind you, sometimes even in the city when I can find a good bush or corner of a building. As far as I'm concerned, the whole world is my toilet.
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Aug 15, 2016 16:51
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Moridin920 posted:Uh okay. If I own a building and then I am allowed to set the rules/protocols within the scope of the law for it and if you violate those I am allowed to call the police and have you arrested for trespassing or disorderly conduct. According to my building rules, men aren't allowed in women's restrooms except the night crew janitors. Yeah ok sounds perfectly reasonable. That shouldn't be changed?
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Aug 15, 2016 16:52
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Moridin920 posted:Uh okay. If I own a building and then I am allowed to set the rules/protocols within the scope of the law for it and if you violate those I am allowed to call the police and have you arrested for trespassing or disorderly conduct. According to my building rules, men aren't allowed in women's restrooms except the night crew janitors. That's not a law and he wasn't asking for a hypothetical you fuckman. where's i said come in i want some real answers
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Aug 15, 2016 16:53
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Are there any good men's rights groups? I don't think feminism can claim to speak for men, since men are generally discouraged from taking leadership roles in feminist groups. That's fine, women should advocate for themselves, but the same is true for men. Unfortunately, every men's rights group seems to be either "women, feminism, and False Rape Accusations are destroying the fabric of our society" to groups that kowtow hard to feminism to avoid looking like the former. I just want a group that addresses domestic violence, mental health, criminal justice, and other serious mens issues without being bad and shameful. The bathroom issue seems more like mountains out of molehills. There've always been men going into women's restrooms and vice versa for various reasons. If problems begin to crop up that aren't addressed by current laws, then something should be done.
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Aug 15, 2016 16:53
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Applewhite posted:Yeah ok sounds perfectly reasonable. That shouldn't be changed? If you specifically codify in trans bathroom or non-discriminatory bathroom stuff then I as the building owner can't say 'you're not really a woman, get out of the women's bathroom or I'll call the police.' As it stands now, I am able to in states where those laws don't exist. 8-Bit Scholar posted:That's not a law and he wasn't asking for a hypothetical you fuckman. It's not a law that a private property owner can determine who gets to use his facilities under what circumstances within the scope of the legal code? I gave you a concrete example of what can happen in a state that says 'eh whatever' and doesn't pass any protections for trans people.
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Aug 15, 2016 16:57
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Moridin920 posted:If you specifically codify in trans bathroom or non-discriminatory bathroom stuff then I as the building owner can't say 'you're not really a woman, get out of the women's bathroom or I'll call the police.' Yes and?
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Aug 15, 2016 16:59
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Applewhite posted:Yes and? and so this isn't true in all situations then and you're just talking out your booty hole: Applewhite posted:It's never been illegal for a male identifying male to use a ladies' room any tiime he wants, it's just highly discouraged by social convention. so it can't hurt to pass some specific protection stuff
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Aug 15, 2016 17:00
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Moridin920 posted:and so this isn't true in all situations then and you're just talking out your booty hole: Ugh. Sorry I guess I should have specified that it's never been explicitly codified into state or federal law who can and can't use what bathrooms. It's been left up to the conscience of the individual proprietor, which is just as it should be.
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Aug 15, 2016 17:04
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Applewhite posted:Ugh. Sorry I guess I should have specified that it's never been explicitly codified into state or federal law who can and can't use what bathrooms. It's been left up to the conscience of the individual proprietor, which is just as it should be. Your argument was the exact argument used by people back in the day to justify refusing services to black people and other minorities though and it was pretty lovely and dumb honk honk
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Aug 15, 2016 17:04
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since women go in stalls and don't sit out in the open to do their business isn't it more efficient to creep on them as they're entering or exiting the toilet anyway
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Aug 15, 2016 17:06
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asking the experts ITT
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Aug 15, 2016 17:06
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some dude in CA was just arrested for going into women's stalls and videotaping them somehow idk people are bad
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Aug 15, 2016 17:06
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Moridin920 posted:some dude in CA was just arrested for going into women's stalls and videotaping them somehow idk people are bad yeah but claiming to be trans isn't going to cover you for that
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Aug 15, 2016 17:08
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I think the broader point is that: 1. The subject of transgenderism is not very well understood--period. It's not well understood by researchers, doctors, and it's not even particularly well understood by those who identify under it. There's been absolutely no national discussion, and the biggest trans advocate/most visible trans person is Caitlyn Jenner, who is a bad face for a movement for a half dozen reasons. 2. Rushing to embrace transgendered people is a very noble goal, but in our haste I feel our lack of understanding has hit problems that now we can't discuss. I think it's horrifying to give little boys hormone treatments to become "girls" as they reach puberty. I think the surgery itself is barbaric and ineffective, and I think the broad majority of trans people fail to adequately pass by either their standards or society's. My opinion, whether you agree with it or not, is certainly shared by a vast majority of people in the United States, largely due to point 1 above. There's a lot of willful misinformation on both sides, and the science at the core of sexual reassignment has been questioned quite a few times, and has some troubling flaws. 3. By defining the issue of transgendered persons as a civil rights issue, we are unable to adequately discuss it as a medical one. A civil rights issue begs the intrusion of the federal government. Now, the VA has put trans veterans on a fast track program, while those suffering from cancer enjoy long waiting lists. Federal funding for schools is held ransom until gender neutral bathrooms are constructed. It's not a good solution, and it doesn't sit right with me. Above all, it's infuriating that any critical look at the issue of trans persons is IMMEDIATELY met with rage, hostility, accusations of bigotry, and fury. Trans persons are their own best advocate. If you cannot discuss your condition without flying into a frothing rage, then how can any rational person be expected to take you seriously?
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Aug 15, 2016 17:08
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The fact that barely any MRAs brought up this particular incident instead of way more specious stuff says a lot about them. 
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Aug 15, 2016 17:10
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Moridin920 posted:Your argument was the exact argument used by people back in the day to justify refusing services to black people and other minorities though and it was pretty lovely and dumb Except segregation was a law tho?
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Aug 15, 2016 17:10
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Saint Isaias Boner posted:yeah but claiming to be trans isn't going to cover you for that nope it won't, that poo poo is illegal regardless which is why people being shitters in bathrooms isn't really a good reason to not pass pro-trans people laws
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Aug 15, 2016 17:10
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Applewhite posted:Except segregation was a law tho? not talking about jim crow Heart of Atlanta Motel Inc. v. United States honk honk
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Aug 15, 2016 17:10
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Transpeople being taken on by both LGB and Feminism has hurt both movements. It cements the "slippery slope" argument in the heads of people that would otherwise come around to supporting the causes.
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Aug 15, 2016 17:12
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actually oppressed people all over the world need to join in one massive movement, not be splintered into ineffectual tiny groups
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Aug 15, 2016 17:12
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8-Bit Scholar posted:2. Rushing to embrace transgendered people is a very noble goal, but in our haste I feel our lack of understanding has hit problems that now we can't discuss. I think it's horrifying to give little boys hormone treatments to become "girls" as they reach puberty. I think the surgery itself is barbaric and ineffective, This is the second time you brought this up which has no relevance or bearing on anything we're talking about now. We agree? But what's your point? People shouldn't dick with pre-puberty kids' genders therefore all trans stuff is not good? quote:I think the broad majority of trans people fail to adequately pass by either their standards or society's. but that's not relevant to either point and it's kinda just transphobic lol who cares whether you think they pass or not that isn't the fuckin' point HONK HONK Moridin920 fucked around with this message at 17:17 on Aug 15, 2016 |
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Aug 15, 2016 17:14
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Look I'd be for less laws in the bathroom situation but the fact is a large portion of the country are utter assholes to trans people and wig out over the bathroom used so it can't hurt to pass some non-discrimination law. idk why that's so controversial. it's just like back in the day when people said 'I refuse service to blacks bc they are black' and we had to get a SCOTUS decision to get those shitters to stop being shitters. Yeah IDEALLY you wouldn't need a civil rights act at all but turns out society is not ideal and we had to get one.
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Aug 15, 2016 17:16
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Moridin920 posted:actually oppressed people all over the world need to join in one massive movement, not be splintered into ineffectual tiny groups If you've ever attended a conference in Social Work/Gender Studies/Related Disciplines you can see that this will never happen. Intersectionality has broken those people into the ineffectual tiny groups by creating a taxonomical ranking of oppression.
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Aug 15, 2016 17:18
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Moridin920 posted:not talking about jim crow Whatever I don't think it's a direct analogy. Moridin920 posted:Look I'd be for less laws in the bathroom situation but the fact is a large portion of the country are utter assholes to trans people and wig out over the bathroom used so it can't hurt to pass some non-discrimination law. idk why that's so controversial. People can't help but be the race they are but isn't it a central aspect of the transgender narrative that we're free to define our own gender? If so, then that places gender presentation under the realm of conduct, rather than selfhood, and makes a property owner requiring certain bathroom usage rules no more different than requiring a dress code.
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Aug 15, 2016 17:19
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Applewhite posted:Whatever I don't think it's a direct analogy. it's totally a direct analogy. whether or not they can choose their race vs their gender is immaterial because it isn't your call to make, it's theirs trying to justify your reasoning by comparing changing gender to a change of clothes is some extremely lol poo poo my man; you're usually smarter than that Moridin920 fucked around with this message at 17:22 on Aug 15, 2016 |
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Aug 15, 2016 17:20
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let's try a different tack: let's say alright I agree let's pass some laws saying men for men's bathrooms and women for women's bathrooms and no funny stuff how do you enforce such a thing? Just those who don't pass get the cops called and the others roll the hard 6 every time they want to take a piss? Do you really want to waste taxpayer resources on that? WallyWorld already calls the police out for every minor rear end thing.
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Aug 15, 2016 17:23
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Hellthread has returned
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Aug 15, 2016 17:25
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Al Cowens posted:Hellthread has returned it never stays dead countdown to cccc
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Aug 15, 2016 17:25
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