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Frosted Flake posted:"Oh you went to the doctor? What did they say?" - you're right, checks out. and every linguist just snorts and rolls their eyes at this just so you know language is fluid as gently caress and changes all the time and lol if you think English somehow is the final arbiter of what pronouns exist (other languages even have all their words gendered so you can mis-gender a WORD even haha!) also it sounds like you care too much about it smoke a bowl imo and stop giving a gently caress and just be chill to people even if they are a bit odd 
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Aug 15, 2016 19:36
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Frosted Flake posted:"Oh you went to the doctor? What did they say?" - you're right, checks out.
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Aug 15, 2016 19:37
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Moridin920 posted:well, again, if all you pay attention to is dumb internet poo poo then sure you can see lots of rad-fem blue hared male tears drinkers in if you peek in on the right college classes. its defiantly not just an internet thing
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Aug 15, 2016 19:38
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Rutibex posted:you can see lots of rad-fem blue hared male tears drinkers in if you peek in on the right college classes. its defiantly not just an internet thing you say that like small private hippy dippy schools haven't been turning those types out for decades and decades, or like big universities don't create classes to pander to anyone ever *cough Starcraft class at Berkeley cough*
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Aug 15, 2016 19:40
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The difference is that the established pronouns refer to things we can all see and agree upon. If you just throw out the rules than we may as well just bark at one another to communicate. And the only fluid parts of language are syntax and slang. Shakespeare still makes sense to us even though the syntax is different. This is not an excuse for redefining how we talk about, and subsequently think about, just because some out of touch people say we need to in order to spare somebody somewhere's fee fees. You people will not take me on this crazy ride into lala land anymore. I'm getting off this tiger.
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Aug 15, 2016 19:41
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I encounter a lot of people bitching about "made up" pronouns (as though language itself isn't a social construct but whatever) like "xir" and "zey" and "qim", but I've never actually seen anyone in the wild who insists that those pronouns be used. Mostly they are trolls trying badly to mock so-called SJWs. Either it'll go out of fashion as the "singular they" becomes more mainstream or one of those pronouns will win out. The quest to define a gender neutral singular pronoun has been going on for centuries, so it's not just something tumblr invented ex nihilo.
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Aug 15, 2016 19:40
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Aschlafly posted:"Imaginary pronouns", as opposed to all those "real" pronouns that were handed down when God dictated the Oxford English Dictionary to Moses on Mt. Sinai. Inventing special terms that you insist on being referred to by is rather petulant. That said, all language is in a state of flux and subject to change and use. Pronouns, however, generally have to serve a purpose of identifying the gender of whomever is being referred to. In English this isn't THAT necessary, but in a language like Spanish, where masculine and feminine words exist, that identifying language is essential for communicating and also for the formation of proper Spanish grammar.
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Aug 15, 2016 19:42
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a dog from hell posted:The difference is that the established pronouns refer to things we can all see and agree upon. If you just throw out the rules than we may as well just bark at one another to communicate. how do you think pronouns BECOME established dog? they don't just appear from the aether no one loving knew what words Shakespeare was using when he first used invented things in a play either but they figured it out through context and got over it and now those words are parts of our lexicon
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Aug 15, 2016 19:42
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Aschlafly, you can type this poo poo, but you can't say it! Also lol the "Natural" evolution of the English language was cooked up in Womyn's Studies departments to describe a phenomenon the vast majority of people disagree with.
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Aug 15, 2016 19:42
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if a vast majority of people disagree then it won't become a thing and you have nothing to worry or complain about honk honk
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Aug 15, 2016 19:42
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Aschlafly posted:I encounter a lot of people bitching about "made up" pronouns (as though language itself isn't a social construct but whatever) like "xir" and "zey" and "qim", but I've never actually seen anyone in the wild who insists that those pronouns be used. Mostly they are trolls trying badly to mock so-called SJWs. Either it'll go out of fashion as the "singular they" becomes more mainstream or one of those pronouns will win out. The quest to define a gender neutral singular pronoun has been going on for centuries, so it's not just something tumblr invented ex nihilo. the easiest solution is never to talk or write about anyone who insists you use their hosed up third-person pronouns
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Aug 15, 2016 19:42
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8-Bit Scholar posted:Inventing special terms that you insist on being referred to by is rather petulant. now that's probably true right there though Aschlafly posted:I encounter a lot of people bitching about "made up" pronouns (as though language itself isn't a social construct but whatever) like "xir" and "zey" and "qim", but I've never actually seen anyone in the wild who insists that those pronouns be used. Mostly they are trolls trying badly to mock so-called SJWs. Either it'll go out of fashion as the "singular they" becomes more mainstream or one of those pronouns will win out. also sorry but "I never encounter this IRL, I only see it and get irritated by it when I specifically look for it on the internet" fuckin what bro
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Aug 15, 2016 19:44
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a dog from hell posted:The difference is that the established pronouns refer to things we can all see and agree upon. If you just throw out the rules than we may as well just bark at one another to communicate.
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Aug 15, 2016 19:43
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the world is a vampire sent to plape
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Aug 15, 2016 19:45
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Moridin920 posted:how do you think pronouns BECOME established dog? they don't just appear from the aether Out of necessity. The English in Shakespeare means the same to us as it did then. This idea of accessory LGBT pronouns being common vernacular is intending to redefine the way we think of gender. 2 + 2 does not equal 5. In this way we communicate. By setting rules based on necessity. You can not improve upon the wheel. This poo poo is a modern trend and it will disappear and be forgotten quickly.
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Aug 15, 2016 19:45
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a dog from hell posted:Out of necessity. The English in Shakespeare means the same to us as it did then. This idea of accessory LGBT pronouns being common vernacular is intending to redefine the way we think of gender. 2 + 2 does not equal 5. In this way we communicate. By setting rules based on necessity. ah yes Shakespeare invented words out of necessity he def needed to use 'cvckold' instead of 'dude whose wife is loving other men' for his plays, which were necessary to stop the French invasion the gently caress are you babbling about homie lmao
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Aug 15, 2016 19:47
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Aschlafly posted:Exactly, it's so simple. The core vocabulary of a language never changes. Hence why I can read Beowulf in the original Ænglisc and understand it just fine, and hence why we still use the singular "thou" these days. There is no middle ground between "language literally cannot ever change" and "language is chaos and no one can understand anyone else, ever". The conventions of language stay the same regardless of syntax or vocabulary. Every word fits a need for the context. Your context is a false context and once some country with people that actually know up from down gets even with the US, these fantasies will be erased.
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Aug 15, 2016 19:48
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"lmao can't improve on the wheel!" said the Hyksos before the spoked wheel chariots annihilated them fuckwit a dog from hell posted:The conventions of language stay the same regardless of syntax or vocabulary. Every word fits a need for the context. Your context is a false context and once some country with people that actually know up from down gets even with the US, these fantasies will be erased. you're wrong that's not how language works drildo (see that drildo is a made the gently caress up word and you know I'm insulting you even though we've just invented it out of pure bullshit not any kind of necessity!) honk honk
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Aug 15, 2016 19:49
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Moridin920 posted:also sorry but "I never encounter this IRL, I only see it and get irritated by it when I specifically look for it on the internet"
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Aug 15, 2016 19:50
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CAN'T IMPROVE ON THE WHEEL said the Egyptians as the iron rimmed wheels of Greek chariots ran them downAschlafly posted:Of the instances of "I prefer xir/xey/xim" I've encountered on the Internet, almost all have been anti-SJWs trying to make fun of SJWs. oh well that I believe. people are always blowing things up into bigger affairs then they really are to get points with their clique
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Aug 15, 2016 19:51
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a dog from hell posted:The conventions of language stay the same regardless of syntax or vocabulary. Every word fits a need for the context. Your context is a false context and once some country with people that actually know up from down gets even with the US, these fantasies will be erased. You're gonna be mad surprised when you start studying a language other than English and learn that government-mandated spelling, grammar, and even pronoun use reforms aren't unheard of.
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Aug 15, 2016 19:52
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They teach "xir" in gen-ed college classes nowadays.
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Aug 15, 2016 19:52
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Moridin920 posted:ah yes Shakespeare invented words out of necessity he def needed to use 'cvckold' instead of 'dude whose wife is loving other men' for his plays, which were necessary to stop the French invasion What does this have to do with my point, which is that you are asking for a fundamental change in the way people think? Coining a word for brevity and style has nothing to do with changing the rules of language.
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Aug 15, 2016 19:51
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The Kingfish posted:They teach "xir" in gen-ed college classes nowadays.
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Aug 15, 2016 19:53
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"can't... improve... on... the wheel..." gasps the Greek as the Persian scythe chariot spills his intestinesa dog from hell posted:What does this have to do with my point, which is that you are asking for a fundamental change in the way people think? Coining a word for brevity and style has nothing to do with changing the rules of language. this a doubleplus ungood post dog
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Aug 15, 2016 19:52
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"Can't improve on the wheeeeel!" screams the Persian chariot driver right before Roman caltrops obliterate the wheels
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Aug 15, 2016 19:54
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a dog from hell posted:What does this have to do with my point, which is that you are asking for a fundamental change in the way people think? Coining a word for brevity and style has nothing to do with changing the rules of language.
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Aug 15, 2016 19:54
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Words represent ideas. Most people don't believe in the idea of genderfluidity or a third gender, so why propagate it?
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Aug 15, 2016 19:55
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Aschlafly posted:What is a "false context" as opposed to a "true context"? Sounds like you've bought into the myth of the museum buddy, better go read some basic linguistics or metaphysics. Communication is used for a purpose. Courting mental illness is not viable long-term. I am mostly drawing from Wittgenstein here. Language is a game with rules and its purpose is to accomplish real objectives.. Additional perversions are just that - perversions.
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Aug 15, 2016 19:56
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"... can't improve on the wheel" mutters the factory owner when presented with pneumatic tiresa dog from hell posted:Communication is used for a purpose. Courting mental illness is not viable long-term. lol look at you referencing Wittgenstein like you know what you're talking about (he also said the object of language is to figure out what game the other person is playing so we can more easily communicate, not that we need to wipe out perversions like we are WH40k commissars) also perversions in that context mean the bullshit word games we play which prevent us from clearly communicating, not what you're talking about Moridin920 fucked around with this message at 19:58 on Aug 15, 2016 |
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Aug 15, 2016 19:56
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Aschlafly posted:"Imaginary pronouns", as opposed to all those "real" pronouns that were handed down when God dictated the Oxford English Dictionary to Moses on Mt. Sinai. Those are silly too. One time this dude with a deep voice and a beard got offended that I called him a he and insisted that he was a she and how dare I just make an assumption about her gender. I was a little stunned by this and didn't quite know how to react, because thing one, when you look and sound like a man, what do you expect someone to say? Especially with no context? How do you expect me to automatically know the right word to use, buddy? It's not that "how dare someone ask me to change my language", it's more like I don't appreciate people trying to force me to become a liar. I don't tell people what to do or believe because I don't care for it when people shove their beliefs down my throat. Especially when you try to force me to take part in your delusion. If you're like "say that God is real and the earth is flat or else" I'll tell you to go gently caress yourself.
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Aug 15, 2016 19:56
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Moridin920 posted:"can't... improve... on... the wheel..." gasps the Greek as the Persian scythe chariot spills his intestines You take internet arguments very personally and frankly I think you should go get some sun.
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Aug 15, 2016 19:59
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Gammatron 64 posted:Those are silly too. you shrug because people are dumb fuckers and go 'sorry girl didn't realize' instead of blowing it up into an altercation or getting butthurt about it for later i mean i agree, that person is being dumb, but so what man you won't stop people from being dumb
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Aug 15, 2016 19:58
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Like OK, sure, slight changes in vocabulary can affect the way people think. For example, in English there's no longer a tu/vous distinction, which means the barrier between formal and informal interactions is a little less rigid than in other languages. Adding a gender neutral third person pronoun might cause speakers to default to it instead of "he" for persons whose gender is unknown, and it might cause speakers to conceptualize gender as not inherently binary. Aren't these good things, though?
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Aug 15, 2016 19:59
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Aschlafly posted:Of the instances of "I prefer xir/xey/xim" I've encountered on the Internet, almost all have been anti-SJWs trying to make fun of SJWs. I'm not denying that it happens, but for the way these guys bitch about it you'd think everyone on the planet invented their own pronouns one day and the English language immediately devolved into meaningless, guttural sounds. It's not "irritating" to me; someone requesting that I use specific pronouns to refer to them is such a weird and petty thing for me to get butthurt about. Nobody is really talking about pronouns though, that just got brought up this page. My issue is that "gender fluidity" is an extremely vague theory based on very little actual science and I am disturbed to see political figures using this to their advantage without any consideration given to what it would actually mean to adopt this theory into practice. I've extreme issues with the surgical element of treating gender dysphoria and I'm very concerned with whether this is going to be taught to children as fact in some attempt at espousing progressive values. The fact that effectively ordinary people are being villified as bigots, the term "cis-gender" is not only now part of the loving lexicon but in more instances than not it is used as a disparaging insult or a means of silencing objection to this gender spectrum, it's all very troubling to see.
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Aug 15, 2016 20:00
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a dog from hell posted:You take internet arguments very personally and frankly I think you should go get some sun. im not taking anything personally im just here to illuminate the hosed up logical conclusions of statements like 'you can't improve upon the wheel' when talking about language as if it is some static thing that has arrived at its end point and this is it this is the best iteration of language possible can't improve any more! the beauty of English is that it is so adaptable and changes constantly and steals words from other languages, not that it is static and unchanging. Go learn German if you want that.
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Aug 15, 2016 19:59
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Moridin920 posted:"... can't improve on the wheel" mutters the factory owner when presented with pneumatic tires Pretending gender doesn't exist as a fact is not clearly communicating. Next argument?
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Aug 15, 2016 20:00
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Usm7Q_4Xc7s&t=83s
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Aug 15, 2016 19:59
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a dog from hell posted:Communication is used for a purpose. Courting mental illness is not viable long-term. chuckle, snort
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Aug 15, 2016 20:00
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a dog from hell posted:Pretending gender doesn't exist as a fact is not clearly communicating. Next argument? lol you better review your Wittgenstein next time you come with some weak poo poo like that, that's all. don't be mad bc I brutally owned you and that's a dumb post anyway, a perverse word game right now is you acting changing pronouns suddenly means pretending gender doesn't exist or 'helping mental illness' like lmao dog just lmao you're the one muddying the waters here
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Aug 15, 2016 20:02
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