Auspol August: The Greens Echo Chamber

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thatfatkid: Feb 20, 2011; by Azathoth

BBJoey posted:

'nations can't do good things because they also do bad things' - a nuanced geopolitical analysis

Just lol if you think the US enforcing the status quo where they run the show is in any way good.

# ? Aug 15, 2016 23:56

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# ? Jun 5, 2024 09:59

NPR Journalizard: Feb 14, 2008

Isnt this just an extension of capitalism though? The big absorb the small and weak, ensuring efficiencies can be leveraged and gains realised by vfgfqpoaiuerbgv [ *shoots self*

# ? Aug 16, 2016 00:23

Anidav: Feb 25, 2010; ahhh fuck its the rats again

China strong. May traitor island sink into the sea.

Horton must apologise!

The seas belong to China!

# ? Aug 16, 2016 00:24

Synthbuttrange: May 6, 2007

China pisses purple!

# ? Aug 16, 2016 00:39

Synthbuttrange: May 6, 2007

Also my bad it was actually Corgi

Senator Bernardi on Tuesday backed Senator Leyonhjelm's tactic and predicted it would expose the "social justice warriors" as "racists, bigots and hypocrites."

"David Leyonhjelm is making a very important point � if you replace the word 'white' with any other colour, the social justice warriors would be up in arms," Senator Bernardi said.

# ? Aug 16, 2016 00:45

Solemn Sloth: Jul 11, 2015; Baby you can shout at me,
But you can't need my eyes.

Fiona Patton of the ASP is speaking at a vape rally in Melbourne today lol

# ? Aug 16, 2016 01:04

Solemn Sloth: Jul 11, 2015; Baby you can shout at me,
But you can't need my eyes.

Wish they'd vaporise them bloody lebs

# ? Aug 16, 2016 01:06

norp: Jan 20, 2004; TRUMP TRUMP TRUMP

let's invade New Zealand, they have oil

SynthOrange posted:

Also my bad it was actually Corgi

Senator Bernardi on Tuesday backed Senator Leyonhjelm's tactic and predicted it would expose the "social justice warriors" as "racists, bigots and hypocrites."

"David Leyonhjelm is making a very important point � if you replace the word 'white' with any other colour, the social justice warriors would be up in arms," Senator Bernardi said.

It's amazing how little they understand privilege

# ? Aug 16, 2016 01:09

I would blow Dane Cook: Dec 26, 2008

Solemn Sloth posted:

Wish they'd vaporise them bloody lebs

Noice

# ? Aug 16, 2016 01:10

Recoome: Nov 9, 2013; Matter of fact, I'm salty now.

SynthOrange posted:

Also my bad it was actually Corgi

Senator Bernardi on Tuesday backed Senator Leyonhjelm's tactic and predicted it would expose the "social justice warriors" as "racists, bigots and hypocrites."

"David Leyonhjelm is making a very important point � if you replace the word 'white' with any other colour, the social justice warriors would be up in arms," Senator Bernardi said.

lmao

# ? Aug 16, 2016 01:29

Cirofren: Jun 13, 2005; Pillbug

Hey if you bash the oppressed instead of the oppressors all these people who care about "equality" get upset! Bunch of hypocrites!

# ? Aug 16, 2016 01:33

The Peccadillo: Mar 4, 2013; We Have Important Work To Do

Solemn Sloth posted:

Fiona Patton of the ASP is speaking at a vape rally in Melbourne today lol

The "informed decision of an adult" argument is sorta disingenuous. I'm pretty sure the only reputable study on the health effects was by FEMA in the US, which concluded that vaporizers are extremely unlikely to explode under normal conditions. The information doesn't actually exist yet.

That being said, they gotta be a drat sight better for you than smokes

# ? Aug 16, 2016 01:40

Cartoon: Jun 20, 2008; poop

ewe2 posted:

Are you suggesting that the Liberal party are the La Ni�a infesting the body politic?

Well there were bound to be few pedophiles.

Xerxes17 posted:

I'm going to disagree here because in this case it really is China acting like a shithead to all it's regional neighbors. The only thing stopping them from going whole-hog against poor nations like the Philippines and straight up annexing the sea that is hundreds of kilometers away from Chinese coast and only a dozen from the Philippines is Uncle Sam standing in the background frowning at them. Belligerence should, and must, be countered where it appears.

Allow me to ask. Why do you think the first world war was really stupid? That was what I used as my comparison. I didn't just pluck it out of my arse for no reason. While you're pondering that.

This is not a case of all in and everyone not for me is agin' me. I can criticise the US for a ridiculously ham fisted piece of rhetoric which is reasonably clearly aimed at a domestic audience in an election year without having to also endorse China's actions in the South China Sea. There are an almost infinite number of steps that should be taken that fall short of military action (of any kind). So while you apparently disagree with me I am in agreement with your statement 'Belligerence should, and must, be countered where it appears.' Even when it is from the mouth of the US president. Imagine, if you will,words of that sort being applied to North Korea. What about Israel? This sort of belligerent talk never leads to good outcomes. The last time a US president used similar language (Axis of Evil) North Korea started production of nuclear weapons.

This will do nothing but raise the stakes with the Chinese hawks. Any difficulties that the central committee might have had with military procurement are now overcome. This is what starts arms races and eventually someone decides they have to make the first move.

-/-

I don't know where to start today but the front page of the SMH was like printed click bait.

http://www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/breakfast/nick-foulkes/7746766

quote:

Party for Freedom's Nick Folkes on storming Gosford Anglican Church Tuesday 16 August 2016 6:16AM (view full episode)

On Sunday, a far right anti-Islam group known as the Party For Freedom took its fight against Muslim immigration right to the very heart of Australian Christianity, storming the Sunday service of the Gosford Anglican Church. Dressed in mock Muslim garb, about a dozen members of the group disrupted a sermon being delivered by Father Rod Bower, who has long championed the cause of asylum seekers and multiculturalism. The Anglican minister described the incident as a 'racist stunt' which traumatised many in his congregation. The anti-Islam party says it draws its inspiration from One Nation, and uses a photo of Pauline Hanson on its Facebook page. But One Nation has distanced itself from the provocative stunt, and says it has nothing to do with the Party for Freedom. - Nick Folkes, Party For Freedom chairman, joins Fran Kelly on RN Breakfast.

Listen to distilled stupidity (Includes traces of Fran Kelly's stupidity too). I can't help but speculate on what would have happened if the protesters had actually been brown. I expect we would have seen arrests and anti terror raids. So why aren't the police pursuing the perpetrators?

None the less I heartily endorse these muppets (and Pauline Hanson's) right to free speech. Nothing says what buffoons they are more eloquently than themselves.

-/-

Saudi coalition now?

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-08-16/saudi-airstrike-on-msf-hospital-in-yemen/7746426

quote:

At least 11 killed, more than dozen injured in Saudi airstrike on MSF hospital in Yemen By Middle East correspondent Sophie McNeill, wires Updated about an hour ago

A Medicins Sans Frontieres (MSF) hospital has been hit by a Saudi coalition airstrike in the province of Hajjah in the north of Yemen, the medical aid organisation says.

Key points:

All remaining patients and staff have been evacuated from hospital in Abs district
MSF says it has "repeatedly shared location & GPS coordinates of Abs hospital" with all parties of Yemen conflict
Incident is fourth time an MSF facility has been hit in Yemen in the past year
At least 11 people were killed in the attack, including one MSF staff member, with 19 people seriously injured, MSF general manager Paul McPhun told ABC News 24.

"We've shared the GPS coordinates with all parties to the conflict including the Saudi-led coalition," Mr McPhun said. "This is an aerial attack so it seems very clear that was carried out by the Saudi-led coalition." In a statement on Twitter, MSF said it asked "all parties & particularly the Saudi-led coalition responsible for the attack to guarantee that such attacks do not happen again". The organisation also said all remaining patients and staff had been evacuated from the hospital in the Abs district. Mr McPhun said the Saudi-led coalition would have been aware "without doubt" of what the MSF facility was. "This is a well known medical facility," he said. "It's carried out over 4,600 treatments of patients in this region and it's incredibly strategic location. It undertakes surgery, maternity care, so women in childbirth and then it looks after children, so children with critical needs and many of these are victims of violence, victims of the conflict that's been escalating in the last couple of weeks. So there's absolutely no doubt it's well known what this hospital is doing."

Fourth time MSF facility hit in past year

Earlier a witness at the scene of the attack told the Reuters news agency that the injured could not be immediately evacuated because warplanes continued to fly over the area and first responders feared more bombings. The incident was the fourth time that an MSF facility has been hit in Yemen in the past year. Amnesty International said the incident was an "atrocious attack that could amount to a war crime. Deliberately targeting medical facilities is a serious violation of international humanitarian law which would amount to a war crime," said Magdalena Mughrabi, Amnesty International's deputy director of the Middle East and North Africa Programme. "The circumstances of this attack must be thoroughly and independently investigated."

A spokesman for the Saudi-led coalition did not immediately respond to a request for comment on the reported attack.

Since peace talks collapsed nine days ago, the Saudi-led coalition has conducted hundreds of air raids in the Yemeni capital Sanaa and all over northern Yemen, killing at least 60 civilians. On Saturday, the UN confirmed that Saudi coalition aircraft bombed a school in Hayden in northern Saada governorate in Yemen killing 10 children and injuring more than 20. The coalition said the bombing had targeted a training facility run by Yemen's dominant Houthi movement but MSF and the UN Children's agency UNICEF confirmed it was a school.

Attacks on hospitals increasing

In January, the MSF-supported Shiara hospital in Razeh, northern Yemen, was hit by a projectile, killing six and injuring seven. In December last year, the MSF-tented clinic in Houban, Taiz governorate, was bombed by the Saudi-led coalition, killing one person and injuring eight others. The MSF facility in Haydan, Saada governorate, was also bombed in October last year. It is the only remaining operational facility in the district, covering a population of nearly 20,000 people. The UN has accused the Saudi-led coalition of deliberately targeting civilians and civilian structures in Yemen since they began their air campaign in the country last March in an attempt to restore President Abd-Rabbu Mansour Hadi to power and roll back gains by the Iran-allied Houthis who deposed him. About 6,500 people have been killed in fighting so far, more than half of them civilians.

Oh those wicked Saudi's flying around in their wicked US made planes firing their wicked US made munitions. If only there was some way to stop them! Won't someone please think of the arms contractors!

News just in!!! FTAs are poo poo and we should stop signing them.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-08-15/verrender-fta-experience-backs-up-morrisons-ausgrid-decision/7734704

quote:

Australia's FTA experience backs up Treasurer's Ausgrid decision ANALYSIS By Ian Verrender Updated yesterday at 3:48pm

It was a marvellous occasion: cheesy smiles at photo ops, the omnipotent presence of the since-departed trade minister Andrew Robb at signing ceremonies and the promises of endless bounty. When the China-Australia Free Trade Agreement finally was inked in mid-June last year, the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade described it thus: "China is Australia's largest export for both goods and services, accounting for nearly a third of total exports, and a growing source of foreign investment." Maybe not any longer. The brakes suddenly have been slammed on that foreign investment growth after federal Treasurer Scott Morrison's slap-down of Beijing over the purchase of NSW power utility Ausgrid last week. It was a decision that negated almost everything the so-called free trade deal was meant to represent and highlighted just how worthless these deals really are.

It's not that the Treasurer made the wrong decision.

On the contrary, in an interview last Friday with Michael Brissenden on AM, he pointed to the extensive existing ownership of vital Australian electricity infrastructure by Chinese interests, particularly the Government-owned State Grid and Hong Kong-based CK Holdings, controlled by Asia's second richest man, Li Ka Shing. It's one thing for Australian federal and state governments to own monopoly utilities. It's quite another to allow a non-democratic government � or private interests associated with it � to amalgamate and bundle up all that infrastructure. Remember, Beijing and Li Ka Shing were not creating anything here with their proposed investment. They were merely buying existing infrastructure. Mr Morrison's critics argued his decision was inconsistent, given State Grid and CK Holdings already have substantial investments in the Australian power sector. That misses the point. In effect, the Treasurer simply decided both parties already owned enough.

But in so doing, he's inadvertently driven a truck through the pretence surrounding the Government's federal election spin that it somehow achieved significant milestones in the free trade agreements with China, South Korea and Japan. Last year, the now-retired Andrew Robb � who incidentally has taken up with investment bank Moelis and Co to push deals through with China � launched into a tirade whenever there was even a hint of scepticism about his FTA frenzy. Anyone who questioned the wisdom, or effectiveness, of the drive was branded "anti-trade". Foreign Minister Julie Bishop attacked independent Senator Nick Xenophon with the same argument during the election while the Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull endlessly hailed the agreements as an economic cure-all.

Free trade, or preferential trade deals?

There's just one problem. Free trade agreements don't work.

That's because they have precious little to do with trade and almost nothing to do with free trade. They largely are political, diplomatic or defence constructs. And the benefits, if they exist at all, are largely illusory. Don't take my word for it. Have a look at the numerous reports and studies from the Federal Government's own Productivity Commission. It prefers to call them what they truly are: preferential trade deals. And it argues that they divert and distort trade, often to our detriment. Rather than free-up commerce, they add to inefficiency and increase complexity. Little wonder then that they are generally shunned by businesses. And as the commission repeatedly argues, the best way to secure the benefits of free trade is to reduce or eliminate your own protection policies. We've largely done that. The best, or perhaps worst, example was the Australia-US Free Trade Agreement signed more than a decade ago. According to a study by the Australian National University's Crawford School, the much vaunted deal cost Australia around $US53 billion in 2012, with the losses accelerating each year from 2005 when the deal was signed. You won't hear that from anyone in Canberra though. In fact, the US-Australia deal � which dealt a serious blow to our ability to negotiate deals for the Pharmaceutical Benefits Scheme � is still hailed as a success around the corridors of power. It hasn't always been that way. Back in 1957 when Robert Menzies signed a historic deal with Japan's Kishi Nobusuke, Australia, like many developed nations, had ensconced itself behind a comfortable trade wall of tariffs, quotas and subsidies. Reducing those barriers led to huge material gains as trade between the two nations ballooned. Those trade walls are largely gone, meaning little is to be gained from preferential trade deals. In fact, as the US FTA demonstrated, much can be lost. Perhaps that's why the Federal Government refused to engage the Productivity Commission to file a report on the Trans-Pacific Partnership, a deal that even America � which proposed it in the first place � is likely to junk. Meanwhile, a study commissioned by the Federal Government into the three most recent deals, with China, Japan and South Korea, found they were likely to have a negative impact on Australian trade, as Fairfax's Peter Martin noted last month.

The Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade study found the deals collectively will boost exports by 0.5 to 1.5 per cent while boosting imports by 2.5 per cent. Rather than being export deals that will create jobs and growth, they are import deals that potentially will have harmful effects. Little wonder the Treasurer had no qualms calling a decision on Ausgrid.

This is getting to be too depressing and relentless.

# ? Aug 16, 2016 02:29

Doctor Spaceman: Jul 6, 2010; "Everyone's entitled to their point of view, but that's seriously a weird one."

eXXon posted:

Was Q&A better in the past because every time I watch it there is at least one token loud idiot?

It can be pretty good if there are no (Australian) politicians / op-ed columnists, or if the subject isn't something that devolves into petty partisan bickering. The one last week on Trump wasn't bad, and the overseas ones are generally worth a watch. It's when you get a panel that looks like Coalition MP / Labor MP / Crossbencher / Murdoch columnist / left-wing think tanker that it's complete garbage.

# ? Aug 16, 2016 02:39

Solemn Sloth: Jul 11, 2015; Baby you can shout at me,
But you can't need my eyes.

The Peccadillo posted:

The "informed decision of an adult" argument is sorta disingenuous. I'm pretty sure the only reputable study on the health effects was by FEMA in the US, which concluded that vaporizers are extremely unlikely to explode under normal conditions. The information doesn't actually exist yet.

That being said, they gotta be a drat sight better for you than smokes

Also vapers are dumb as a post so can they give real consent to anything?

# ? Aug 16, 2016 02:40

BBJoey: Oct 31, 2012

thatfatkid posted:

Just lol if you think the US enforcing the status quo where they run the show is in any way good.

idk everyone in the region who isn't China seems to be pretty happy with the status quo???

# ? Aug 16, 2016 02:44

WhiskeyWhiskers: Oct 14, 2013; "هذا ليس عادلاً."
"هذا ليس عادلاً على الإطلاق."
"كان هناك وقت الآن."
(السياق الخفي: للقراءة)

Would they be happy with conventional warfare between the world's superpowers occurring in their region?

# ? Aug 16, 2016 02:48

DeathMuffin: May 25, 2004; Cake or Death

norp posted:

It's amazing how little they understand privilege

It's really not... But it is kinda awesome just how much their actions reinforce the truth of Kenny's description.

# ? Aug 16, 2016 02:49

Tirade: Jul 17, 2001; Cybertron must act decisively to prevent and oppose acts of genocide and violations of international robot rights law and to bring perpetrators before the Decepticon Justice Division; Pillbug

WhiskeyWhiskers posted:

Would they be happy with conventional warfare between the world's superpowers occurring in their region?

What do you suggest the other claimants should do?

# ? Aug 16, 2016 02:53

WhiskeyWhiskers: Oct 14, 2013; "هذا ليس عادلاً."
"هذا ليس عادلاً على الإطلاق."
"كان هناك وقت الآن."
(السياق الخفي: للقراءة)

# ? Aug 16, 2016 03:02

Scarecow: May 20, 2008; 3200mhz RAM is literally the Devil. Literally.; Lipstick Apathy

Lol if you think it would be better to have china calling the shots and not the US

# ? Aug 16, 2016 03:17

WhiskeyWhiskers: Oct 14, 2013; "هذا ليس عادلاً."
"هذا ليس عادلاً على الإطلاق."
"كان هناك وقت الآن."
(السياق الخفي: للقراءة)

Better than a war.

# ? Aug 16, 2016 03:17

open24hours: Jan 7, 2001

Wouldn't it just lead to a bigger war later on anyway?

# ? Aug 16, 2016 03:19

simmyb: Sep 29, 2005

Are squat toilets on or off The Grid?

# ? Aug 16, 2016 03:23

WhiskeyWhiskers: Oct 14, 2013; "هذا ليس عادلاً."
"هذا ليس عادلاً على الإطلاق."
"كان هناك وقت الآن."
(السياق الخفي: للقراءة)

open24hours posted:

Wouldn't it just lead to a bigger war later on anyway?

Depends on if China's just trying to build a sphere of influence or actively attempting to provoke a war.

# ? Aug 16, 2016 03:25

open24hours: Jan 7, 2001

How can you even tell the difference?

# ? Aug 16, 2016 03:27

WhiskeyWhiskers: Oct 14, 2013; "هذا ليس عادلاً."
"هذا ليس عادلاً على الإطلاق."
"كان هناك وقت الآن."
(السياق الخفي: للقراءة)

open24hours posted:

How can you even tell the difference?

You probably can't until its too late. But a war with China would be absolutely hosed.

# ? Aug 16, 2016 03:29

Redcordial: Nov 7, 2009; TRUMP TRUMP TRUMP

lol the country is fed up with your safe spaces and trigger warnings you useless special snowflakes, send the sjws to mexico

Similar to our Supreme Leaders, maybe the Chinese Government believe their borders also transcend physical borders, and they can effectively declare any area to be within their borders.

Who knows!

# ? Aug 16, 2016 03:32

Redcordial: Nov 7, 2009; TRUMP TRUMP TRUMP

lol the country is fed up with your safe spaces and trigger warnings you useless special snowflakes, send the sjws to mexico

WhiskeyWhiskers posted:

You probably can't until its too late. But a war with China would be absolutely hosed.

Tomorrow when the war beChang.

# ? Aug 16, 2016 03:32

Cleretic: Feb 3, 2010; Ignore my posts!
I'm aggressively wrong about everything!

I can't even fathom how a war with China would impact things now, in a world of multinational companies and massive amounts of private and civilian international interactions.

I mean, beyond 'it'd be bad'. The specifics are just not something I can wrap my head around.

# ? Aug 16, 2016 03:33

WhiskeyWhiskers: Oct 14, 2013; "هذا ليس عادلاً."
"هذا ليس عادلاً على الإطلاق."
"كان هناك وقت الآن."
(السياق الخفي: للقراءة)

Opening move of the war is a Coke-sponsored CIA assassination of President Trump.

# ? Aug 16, 2016 03:43

Avshalom: Feb 14, 2012; by Lowtax

prime minister more like crime minister

# ? Aug 16, 2016 03:54

Avshalom: Feb 14, 2012; by Lowtax

prim minister

# ? Aug 16, 2016 03:56

Avshalom: Feb 14, 2012; by Lowtax

full communism now

# ? Aug 16, 2016 03:56

Ten Becquerels: Apr 17, 2012; My Little Tony: Leadership is Magic

Prior to David Leyonhjelm being in the news with this 18C crap, I didn't know what he looked like and I was content not to know. I blame this thread for causing me to be subjected to his visage. He looks like an alien wearing a human suit inspired by humpty dumpty.

I didn't know it was possible to have so many wrinkles on one's forehead, although his forehead does extend all the way up to the top of his head.

# ? Aug 16, 2016 04:00

Scarecow: May 20, 2008; 3200mhz RAM is literally the Devil. Literally.; Lipstick Apathy

WhiskeyWhiskers posted:

Better than a war.

Yes lets just roll over and accept our fate

# ? Aug 16, 2016 04:08

Starshark: Dec 22, 2005; Doctor Rope

Xerxes17 posted:

It's not so much "being involved in the Philippines" but "openly stealing poo poo" and attacking Filipino fishermen.

I'm opposed to imperialism of all kinds, so when the US is countering Chinese and Russian imperialism I'll cheer them on. But I'll still protest against the USA when they go on an Imperialist venture of their own.

Bit hypocritical you being opposed to imperialism, don't you think, Xerxes?

# ? Aug 16, 2016 04:24

tithin: Nov 14, 2003; [Grandmaster Tactician]

Ten Becquerels posted:

Prior to David Leyonhjelm being in the news with this 18C crap, I didn't know what he looked like and I was content not to know. I blame this thread for causing me to be subjected to his visage. He looks like an alien wearing a human suit inspired by humpty dumpty.

I didn't know it was possible to have so many wrinkles on one's forehead, although his forehead does extend all the way up to the top of his head.

His head does look a bit like a scrotum, doesn't it

# ? Aug 16, 2016 04:29

BlitzkriegOfColour: Aug 22, 2010

Xerxes17 posted:

It's not so much "being involved in the Philippines" but "openly stealing poo poo" and attacking Filipino fishermen.

I'm opposed to imperialism of all kinds, so when the US is countering Chinese and Russian imperialism I'll cheer them on. But I'll still protest against the USA when they go on an Imperialist venture of their own.

Have you considered that great power imperialism is only ever kept in check by other great power imperialism, and with the US being so much more insanely powerful (and also, insane and powerful) there is literally nothing to keep its imperialism in check? I mean, if you really assess the situation, you'd be willing to let the Russian/Chinese empires expand a little in order to check the US. Otherwise they're just going to continue to encircle everyone, as they do now.

# ? Aug 16, 2016 04:30

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# ? Jun 5, 2024 09:59

open24hours: Jan 7, 2001

I too love proxy wars and wish there were more of them.

# ? Aug 16, 2016 04:31

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Auspol August: The Greens Echo Chamber

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