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Conspiracy is explicitly designed to be played with more than two players. Also Melee lets you hit your opponent(s) for more damage while Bushido improves your blocking so they're not really comparable.
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Aug 17, 2016 01:10
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bushido is only blocks/gets blocked though. I think it'd be sweet if it was just "during the combat phase, this guy gets +x/+x until eot". or maybe not even EOT. It lets guys punch above their weight but still die afterwards. seems very samurai-ish to me. they always die a few seconds after the swords flash, right? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5gEYlVmclrU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AUZXkPOCVCo Molybdenum fucked around with this message at 01:34 on Aug 17, 2016 |
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Aug 17, 2016 01:14
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In a way the two mechanics are actually doing exactly the opposite. Bushido gives you creatures that are bad at dealing damage to your opponent (as opposed to fighting other creatures) so it makes attacking worse. Meanwhile Melee gives you creatures that are bad at blocking (as opposed to attacking) so it encourages people to attack (and to attack more than one opponent).
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Aug 17, 2016 01:17
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Irony Be My Shield posted:In a way the two mechanics are actually doing exactly the opposite. Bushido gives you creatures that are bad at dealing damage to your opponent (as opposed to fighting other creatures) so it makes attacking worse. Meanwhile Melee gives you creatures that are bad at blocking (as opposed to attacking) so it encourages people to attack (and to attack more than one opponent). Which is probably them trying to address one of the issues of original Conspiracy, in that board states could get really bloated and everybody would durdle around and not do anything. To the point that it was accepted wisdom to play 45+ cards instead of 40 in Conspiracy decks.....
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Aug 17, 2016 01:29
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Bushido owns and it needs to come back....same with Ninjutsu
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Aug 17, 2016 01:37
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Has anything been said about how they intend to get some of the new Conspiracy 2 cards into MODO? My assumption right now is they are going to try commander cube again when the pre-cons come out in a few months and they'll just put the non-draft cards in there.
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Aug 17, 2016 01:39
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there are so many fun ninjutsu cards. bushido isnt really fun, although i think it would be cool to have a thieving magpie with some massive bushido number on it
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Aug 17, 2016 01:41
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Flanking was the best. Sidewinder sliver let's go.
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Aug 17, 2016 01:54
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I've updated my sideboard: 3 Fulminator Mage 1 Thrun, the Last Troll 1 Ancient Grudge 2 Kitchen Finks 1 Anger of the Gods 1 Pithing Needle 1 Night of Souls' Betrayal 1 Painful Truths 1 Obstinate Baloth 2 Grafdigger's Cage 1 Engineered Explosives Decided that 2 Grafdigger's Cages were worth it beyond just the Dredge matchup because they shut down Snapcasters and Nahiri can't target it. Only thing is that it doesn't stop Living End. ThePeavstenator fucked around with this message at 02:02 on Aug 17, 2016 |
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Aug 17, 2016 02:00
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ShaneB posted:Anyone want to have a meetup at gp Indy? Do a draft or at least say hey irl? If I do end up going I would bring the ol' cube, The Superiorest Draft Format.
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Aug 17, 2016 02:03
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Pontius Pilate posted:If I do end up going I would bring the ol' cube, The Superiorest Draft Format. I have my peasant cube but would love something more neato
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Aug 17, 2016 02:07
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Star Man posted:It's the original illustration. Point being that the colors are a lot more vibrant.
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Aug 17, 2016 02:19
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ThePeavstenator posted:I've updated my sideboard: The more I look at it, the more I want to find one slot for a Crumble to Dust. Maybe cut a Fulminator Mage for it?
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Aug 17, 2016 02:23
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anglachel posted:So your basically saying they are completely different mechanics that do completely different things? if its straight up locked at 4p its still kinda worse than bushido as its only really good if you have a strong enough board state to be able to swing at multiple players without fear?
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Aug 17, 2016 03:22
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It's a multiplayer draft format and Bushido does the opposite of what they want to do.
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Aug 17, 2016 03:24
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fair enough. I am having a harder time thinking of ways to make that effective...maybe getting some evasion somewhere?
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Aug 17, 2016 03:25
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Bushido works on defence and melee doesn't, so even in 1v1 it already helps alleviate problems of gummed up board states where nobody wants to attack. It also looks to be priced similarly, which makes it better because you control when the creature gets the boost more than bushido
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Aug 17, 2016 03:29
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ThePeavstenator posted:Decided that 2 Grafdigger's Cages were worth it beyond just the Dredge matchup because they shut down Snapcasters and Nahiri can't target it. Only thing is that it doesn't stop Living End. Siding in Grafdigger's Cage just to turn Snapcaster into a 2/1 seems like a total waste of a card. When you're trying to 1 for 1 the opponent and get into a position where you're both out and turning that into an advantage because you have higher average card quality, having to topdeck Cage seems horrible. Just play a Jund Charm at that point.
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Aug 17, 2016 03:31
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ThePeavstenator posted:I'd be down for a draft with goons I live here so yeah I would be down to draft something probably Edit: and yes we could draft Pontius pilate's cube which is really excellent IMO, especially after amazon sent me a very powerful shipment of definitely not fake magic cards Lawnie fucked around with this message at 03:41 on Aug 17, 2016 |
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Aug 17, 2016 03:38
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Hellsau posted:Siding in Grafdigger's Cage just to turn Snapcaster into a 2/1 seems like a total waste of a card. When you're trying to 1 for 1 the opponent and get into a position where you're both out and turning that into an advantage because you have higher average card quality, having to topdeck Cage seems horrible. Just play a Jund Charm at that point. Considering the only Snapcaster deck also plays Nahiri it seems fine.
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Aug 17, 2016 04:18
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Hellsau posted:Siding in Grafdigger's Cage just to turn Snapcaster into a 2/1 seems like a total waste of a card. When you're trying to 1 for 1 the opponent and get into a position where you're both out and turning that into an advantage because you have higher average card quality, having to topdeck Cage seems horrible. Just play a Jund Charm at that point. You would only side in Grafdiggers to turn off Snapcasters when up against Jeskai sense it turns off their ult Nahari win condition. It's a good card against Abzan Company, or any other deck that relies on Collected Company and or Chord of Calling, shuts down Goryo's Vengenance, hurts Storm, works pretty good on Lingering Souls (though I would personally question bringing it in just for that card) And if you draw your extra you can just pitch it to Leliana. As a 1 of it's pretty versatile answer to alot of the strategies in Modern. That said I would probably run 1 and one Relic of Progenitus instead sense that actually works on Living End and is still a hate option for Dredge and does some work in other matchups.
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Aug 17, 2016 04:44
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rabidsquid posted:there are so many fun ninjutsu cards. bushido isnt really fun, although i think it would be cool to have a thieving magpie with some massive bushido number on it were there any bushido creatures that had effects when combat damage was dealt, feels like an obvious use for it but i can't think of any
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Aug 17, 2016 04:55
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So what's the best way to sell 5 packs? I know people are all anal about checking boxes and things, but I got them with the gift box and they're all different pictures (apparently this matters). Is there a way to show the packs aren't "picked through"? I just collect duel decks and other preconstructs so packs are worthless to me. I wanted the gift box because it goes well with the rest of my board games and my collection fits in it.
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Aug 17, 2016 05:06
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mandatory lesbian posted:were there any bushido creatures that had effects when combat damage was dealt, feels like an obvious use for it but i can't think of any There were attack triggers but no damage triggers PRADA SLUT posted:So what's the best way to sell 5 packs? I know people are all anal about checking boxes and things, but I got them with the gift box and they're all different pictures (apparently this matters). Is there a way to show the packs aren't "picked through"? See if your LGS would let you draft with them? I doubt it kind of but you can try to sell them loose for 2 bucks on ebay or twitter or something.
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Aug 17, 2016 05:06
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suicidesteve posted:Considering the only Snapcaster deck also plays Nahiri it seems fine. Grafdiggers doesn't actually counter Nahiri though. Like, she won't kill you but she'll still exile your creatures and increase her card quality while you went down a card to do that.
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Aug 17, 2016 05:08
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mandatory lesbian posted:were there any bushido creatures that had effects when combat damage was dealt, feels like an obvious use for it but i can't think of any nope, it seems like super obvious design space too. i mean it doesnt hurt that i was also posting about ninjutsu and the most obvious cool ninjutsu card was ninja of the deep hours, but still. actually the black ninjutsu cards were pretty cool too, both ink-eyes and okiba-gang shinobi were neat
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Aug 17, 2016 05:10
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Entropic posted:I wish Conspiracy wasn't built around 4-player games because I like absolutely everything about it except the multiplayer aspect. >2-player magic is dumb garbage. Whatever problems you have with traditional multiplayer Magic, Conspiracy is probably the solution. Most of the problems with traditional (Commander) multiplayer are averted because everyone's trying to win instead of all gathering around playing solitaire together until someone attempts to combo off.
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Aug 17, 2016 05:11
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TheKingofSprings posted:Grafdiggers doesn't actually counter Nahiri though. Yep. That's why also shutting off their Snapcasters is a big deal. It's not great but it has to be better than like, Terminate or Abrupt Decay. anglachel posted:As a 1 of it's pretty versatile answer to alot of the strategies in Modern. That said I would probably run 1 and one Relic of Progenitus instead sense that actually works on Living End and is still a hate option for Dredge and does some work in other matchups. Relic nerfs your own Goyfs and Commands. Nihil Spellbomb is much better in Jund. Also, Relic isn't even all that good against Living End. A competent player will just save up some mana and cycle a few things after the Relic resolves. The best card is Scooze. That card is really annoying.
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Aug 17, 2016 05:17
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Skyl3lazer posted:See if your LGS would let you draft with them? I doubt it kind of but you can try to sell them loose for 2 bucks on ebay or twitter or something. BJPaskoff posted:Whatever problems you have with traditional multiplayer Magic, Conspiracy is probably the solution. Most of the problems with traditional (Commander) multiplayer are averted because everyone's trying to win instead of all gathering around playing solitaire together until someone attempts to combo off. I don't like waiting for 3 other players to take their turns and I don't like politicking that's outside of the actual game mechanics. I want to win or lose based on my deck and how I played it, not based on the whims of who decided to attack who.
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Aug 17, 2016 05:17
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Entropic posted:I don't like waiting for 3 other players to take their turns and I don't like politicking that's outside of the actual game mechanics. I want to win or lose based on my deck and how I played it, not based on the whims of who decided to attack who. Then don't play Conspiracy.
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Aug 17, 2016 05:19
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Man, I wish this crazy, designed-for-multiplayer draft format wasn't multiplayer.
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Aug 17, 2016 05:33
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TheKingofSprings posted:Grafdiggers doesn't actually counter Nahiri though. It turns out that control decks have a hard time winning when they can't play their win condition. Like Jeskai could try to burn the deck that plays Finks and Kalitas and Scooze, but even the dedicated Burn decks only got a 50/50 shot of pulling that off. And your Snapcasters that let you actually do the Burn backup plan are turned off. And Nahari still does some work, but she's gonna get eaten by Jund's manlands sooner or later. Jund is not a deck you want to go 1 for 1 with. I mean the version that runs Geist of St. Traft would have a much better shot at beating Jund than the Nahari build. Entropic posted:I don't like waiting for 3 other players to take their turns and I don't like politicking that's outside of the actual game mechanics. I want to win or lose based on my deck and how I played it, not based on the whims of who decided to attack who. Every politicing i've seen for Conspiracy is pretty solid in the lines of actual game mechanics. Ones I've personally done.... "Hey man I will totally not attack you this turn if you promise not to attack me." "Deal." "I will totally cast Nature's Claim on your random rear end artifact to keep you alive for another turn if you aggro the rear end in a top hat who attacked you." "Deal" "You can kill one of us this turn, but the snapback from either one of us will kill you. I promise I will attack other random guy next turn instead of you if you kill him instead. And I have less fliers in play so it's possible to defend against me better." "Deal" anglachel fucked around with this message at 05:39 on Aug 17, 2016 |
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Aug 17, 2016 05:34
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anglachel posted:It turns out that control decks have a hard time winning when they can't play their win condition. Like Jeskai could try to burn the deck that plays Finks and Kalitas and Scooze, but even the dedicated Burn decks only got a 50/50 shot of pulling that off. And your Snapcasters that let you actually do the Burn backup plan are turned off. And Nahari still does some work, but she's gonna get eaten by Jund's manlands sooner or later. Jund is not a deck you want to go 1 for 1 with. I mean the version that runs Geist of St. Traft would have a much better shot at beating Jund than the Nahari build. They have the ability to Cryptic it back to your hand the turn they want to ult and a Nahiri that has the ability to ult likely dug them a good portion of the way there.
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Aug 17, 2016 05:35
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TheKingofSprings posted:They have the ability to Cryptic it back to your hand the turn they want to ult and a Nahiri that has the ability to ult likely dug them a good portion of the way there. Nahari Jeskai runs at most 2 Cryptics, and some lists run zero. And the Snapcasters can't get it back. If they had enough safe space to not have to fire it off and your playing Jund well you were probably doing something wrong. I mean it's the only hard counter the deck runs, and by the time Nahari is ready to fire off, I can't see them not having not having to shoot it off. Like I'm not saying Grafdiggers is THE BEST SIDEBOARD ANSWER EVAR to Nahari, just it's probably worth taking out your Terminates for the Grafdiggers game 2.
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Aug 17, 2016 05:44
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suicidesteve posted:Then don't play Conspiracy. I don't plan to. I'm not saying it's objectively bad or anything. I'm fine with there being Magic products that are Not For Me, and multiplayer Magic is one of those love-it-or-hate-it things.
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Aug 17, 2016 05:44
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from now on, only post about things you like in this thread *thread is never posted in again*
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Aug 17, 2016 05:47
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i like sea gate oracle, and mulldrifter. they are strong and real and my friends
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Aug 17, 2016 05:49
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The only objectively true statement about magic formats is that EDH Is The Worst.
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Aug 17, 2016 05:49
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rabidsquid posted:i like sea gate oracle, and mulldrifter. they are strong and real and my friends when i first started playing magic i had a jank red/blue deck where sea gate oracle was the only good creature because it helped me dig to my lightning bolts, which were my only good spells
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Aug 17, 2016 05:51
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rabidsquid posted:i like sea gate oracle, and mulldrifter. they are strong and real and my friends how about court hussar mandatory lesbian posted:when i first started playing magic i had a jank red/blue deck where sea gate oracle was the only good creature because it helped me dig to my lightning bolts, which were my only good spells this just sounds like every goon brew deck from that standard format actually
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Aug 17, 2016 05:53
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