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Verge posted:Wait, FRONT BRAKING causes lowside? Also, I was referring to braking in a straight line. Just to clarify to everyone that's probably thinking it (I know riding a Harley really doesn't help my case) no, I don't abstain from using the front brake. It's my primary brake and I know I won't just endo without really being loving stupid (though I didn't think it was as hard as you say so good to know). To clarify, any non-recovered loss of traction will cause a low-side (eventually - in good conditions and with a modicum of skill and luck you can get the bike entirely stopped with both wheels locked). High-sides are caused by *recovering* traction at the worst point.
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Aug 18, 2016 10:21
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Marxalot posted:Sure, if you lean forward and weight the bars while braking. I don't think you're going to manage that on your ape hanger'd Harley. I already learned that the hard way when i did just that on the ninja when new to me fresh off an eliminator 125. Now I pretty easily catch the front skidding. Rib still "catches" my side tho.
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Aug 18, 2016 16:46
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Marxalot posted:Sure, if you lean forward and weight the bars while braking. I don't think you're going to manage that on your ape hanger'd Harley. k. also zen told me to get an sv so i did then crashed it because i didn't understand the concept of cold tires. I'm fine, bikes fine. you're sweet. i didn't do anything too hosed up just forgot that i was moving from a Harley to a real bike
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Aug 19, 2016 04:57
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Verge posted:zen told me to get an sv so i did then crashed it because i didn't understand the concept of cold tires. Unless you crashed while running race tires on a track, I think you still don't.
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Aug 19, 2016 05:51
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Sagebrush posted:Unless you crashed while running race tires on a track, I think you still don't. how mosickle go broom?
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Aug 19, 2016 05:53
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Verge posted:k. also zen told me to get an sv so i did then crashed it because i didn't understand the concept of cold tires. I'm fine, bikes fine. you're sweet. i didn't do anything too hosed up just forgot that i was moving from a Harley to a real bike I'd tell you to stop crashing but it's an SV so vOv. Consider crash bars, some sliders, and attempting to learn how to stunt/crash with dignity. It's an SV, it won't really matter. And you might learn better clutch control or something.
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Aug 19, 2016 06:47
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Razzled posted:how mosickle go broom? 
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Aug 19, 2016 11:41
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Verge posted:zen told me to get an sv so i did then crashed it
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Aug 19, 2016 19:41
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Sagebrush posted:Unless you crashed while running race tires on a track, I think you still don't. could i have ran out of tire? i didn't scrape anything. I'm running continentals, it was a cold morning. if i ran out of tire without scraping anything that's completely new to me as a thing that can happen. i did execute the turn right in other ways (raising bike by throttling on, no braking, no target fixation). honestly if you're gonna tell me that it wasn't cold tires, that freaks me out because i experienced 0 anxiety until my body was sliding of the ground going 'wtf why am i sliding?' and in Zen's defense, it was either an sv or raising the suspension on a Harley for cornering clearance. i like to corner fast
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Aug 19, 2016 22:51
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All tires have a working temperature range and get harder in the cold and softer in the heat. The thing is, though, that if you're running on street tires, the manufacturer has designed them to be usable in all normal riding temperature ranges. It would be really stupid to sell a tire that only gains its working traction when it's hot to a commuter who's never going to bring the tire to that temperature. Like, feel your tires when you get off your bike after a normal ride -- they'll be a little warm but not crazy hot. Race tires normally operate at 180-200F, hot enough to burn you. (The reason race tires need heat is because a softer, stickier tire also wears out faster. If you design a tire that works well at ambient temperature, then when it's heated up to 200 degrees on a racetrack and being ridden hard, it will quickly fall apart. Using a harder rubber means the tire lasts longer in the race, but it's less than optimal when cold). So unless the weather was significantly below freezing, I doubt the temperature had anything to do with it. IMO it's much more likely you hit a patch of sand or oil, or a dead leaf, or water, or just a bump in the road. Lots of things can lead to a lowside with little or no warning. Yes, you could have run out of tire, but that's hard to speak to without video. You can lean over farther than you think on street tires, usually more than enough to scrape the pegs if the pavement's clean and dry.
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Aug 19, 2016 23:04
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I would scrape stock position pegs on the sv with at least a half inch of tire remaining, probably 3/4" up front, oem sizes. It was probably poo poo in the road or whatever.
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Aug 19, 2016 23:51
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Your ambition outweighed your talent You're not going to 'run out of tire' Also, you run harder compound race tires when it's cold. BlackMK4 fucked around with this message at 00:12 on Aug 20, 2016 |
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Aug 20, 2016 00:02
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M42 posted:I would scrape stock position pegs on the sv with at least a half inch of tire remaining, probably 3/4" up front, oem sizes. It was probably poo poo in the road or whatever. well ok. the road was pretty wavy but i thought i could do it. i guess it's good to know that it wasn't my lean angle. ty.
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Aug 20, 2016 01:10
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God drat I need better tires. And to remember how to drive in the rain and not be as aggressive. I was heading into London yesterday when a lady in the fast lane decided to undercut the car in front of her, causing me to have to get on the brakes pretty sharp as she cut across my front, did the usual honk and middle finger (because seriously, didn't even indicate, gently caress you). But still thinking about/keeping an eye on the dumbass I was a dumbass myself and ended up hydroplaning the rear a bit coming to a stop at the lights. Eh, whatever, I was braking pretty hard anyway. Then it happened again, and again... And again. The last time saw me sliding halfway into an intersection with the rear feeling like it was on ice (and in my head, swinging around madly, it probably only shifted a little each side). So combine my lovely tires with me being a bit too aggressive with engine braking, lovely road conditions and just forgetting how to ride in the rain, my rear was probably sliding instead of locking up, right? I've had the rear lock on dry ground before and this felt totally different. Scared the hell out of me as all of these slides where below 30mph. Oh and then on the way home I got sideswiped by a loving delivery driver on a scooter, felt his wing mirror and elbow slap my side as he did a retarded overtake before disappearing into the distance.
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Aug 20, 2016 14:37
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Keket posted:God drat I need better tires. And to remember how to drive in the rain and not be as aggressive. what the actual gently caress? does anyone else think something's wrong with his brakes? doesn't explain how you lost control while engine braking, what are you riding?
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Aug 20, 2016 19:34
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Sinnis 125cc super moto. I'm going to give the entire bike a look over tomorrow when the weathers dry. As I said I've had the rear lock a few times, and slid on metal road covers, but this felt really loving weird.
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Aug 20, 2016 19:53
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Verge posted:what the actual gently caress? does anyone else think something's wrong with his brakes? doesn't explain how you lost control while engine braking, what are you riding? The only time I've locked the rear from engine braking alone that wasn't because of dropping a bunch of gears and dumping the clutch was riding Q2s in snow below 0f.
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Aug 20, 2016 20:05
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Keket posted:God drat I need better tires. And to remember how to drive in the rain and not be as aggressive. 1) Congrats about not dying a bunch of times. 2) If you feel the rear slide it's because it lost traction. Common reasons are wet tar snakes, wet paint, poo poo tyres, sand, wetness, and any combination of the former. If you also heard a squealing sound emanating from your rear tyre then your bike just blew itself up or you went harambe on your rear brake. My guess is poo poo tyres. What are the tyres' date codes?
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Aug 20, 2016 20:19
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Alternatively, because goons and supermoto, are they track tires?
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Aug 20, 2016 20:26
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Keket posted:Sinnis 125cc super moto. Something's wrong here, guys. You shouldn't be able to kill rear traction with engine power alone (assuming proper downshifting speeds) on a bike that small, even in wet. Hydroplaning does feel weird but I somehow doubt you're hydroplaning. Is it possible this is just your first time slicing water and you don't know how it feels? It's actually pretty hard to hydroplane a bike while trying to slow down in a straight line especially if you begin braking BEFORE entering the puddle. Marxalot posted:Alternatively, because goons and supermoto, are they track tires? Or knobbies?
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Aug 20, 2016 20:37
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Any chance there was algae or something like that in the road? With the heat and rain we've been having it'd be the right time for it, I had a similar experience last year with the rear letting go, catching, and then going again, it really does feel just like ice and you often can't see it at all.
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Aug 20, 2016 20:47
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Normal lovely road tires with 5k km on them, and I started riding last winter and rode every day for work, a few weeks where i don't think i had a single dry ride on the 40 minute commute so i'm used to riding in the wet (Though, this happened, so..). Nothing i could see on the roads (usual central London roads) other than the usual oil which i tried to make the most of avoiding. When i get the bike out tomorrow for the check and oil change I'll take some pictures of the tires and brakes. The ride home was fine but the roads had dried up a bit more and I was being super cautious the entire way back (much to the chagrin of the minicab who was trying to clean his numberplate with my back wheel.).
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Aug 20, 2016 21:24
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Verge posted:Something's wrong here, guys. You shouldn't be able to kill rear traction with engine power alone (assuming proper downshifting speeds) on a bike that small, even in wet. Hydroplaning does feel weird but I somehow doubt you're hydroplaning. Is it possible this is just your first time slicing water and you don't know how it feels? It's actually pretty hard to hydroplane a bike while trying to slow down in a straight line especially if you begin braking BEFORE entering the puddle. I've locked up the rear on my CL350 with engine braking by dropping the transmission too low while at speed and popping the clutch. On dry, clean pavement. It's certainly possible. On wet or sandy pavement it's even easier. Keket, I doubt there's anything wrong with your bike. If you were braking hard, you probably just shifted enough weight off the rear that it got loose. The wheel could still be spinning fine and you wouldn't have to touch the rear brake, but if there's no weight keeping the tire pressed into the road, it'll slide. The wet road would help break that last little bit of connection the tire had with the pavement. Sagebrush fucked around with this message at 22:00 on Aug 20, 2016 |
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Aug 20, 2016 21:55
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Probably just too aggressive with engine braking. Try to be a bit smoother. If you were using your rear brake you probably were locking the rear tyre. Just take it a bit easier.
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Aug 21, 2016 02:10
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Nearly money shifted today. Commuting on the ninja 300. Almost the entire way is free for motorcycles toll lanes walled off on either side so I'm booking it and having a blast. Then I have to go from the left most lane to an exit on the right with less than a quarter mile to do it. I do that fine, head-on-a-swivel, and once I'm fully over I'm accelerating again so I'm clear of random speeders and in tree exit ramp. Feeling good. Left foot is still in downshift mode though. Stomp for an upshift at wot and redline. Bike pitches forward and I'm puckered enough to make diamonds in one side of my brain while the other is busy going "Wtf". I think remembered some tire squeal too. I clutch in and shift up twice and I'm fine. Bikes fine. Think I smell oil and worry if I floated valves but it could just be traffic. Rode the rest of the way to work fine. How nearly hosed was I?
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Aug 22, 2016 20:03
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Well, from a riding dynamics standpoint, you basically just stomped on the rear brake at speed. Not a great idea but also less dangerous than, say, hammering on the front brake. If you lock the rear wheel, it'll slide and fishtail around, but you can keep the bike upright and get back under control if you're quick and stay loose. I would avoid doing it in the future. When I was learning to ride, I screwed up a downshift in a turn and popped the clutch in low gear with the engine basically idling. The rear tire locked as the engine spun up, and I slid around the corner and barely kept it upright. From an engine standpoint, not great to over-rev like that. In theory, spinning the engine past its redline - can lead to valve float, where the valve springs don't have enough force to push them closed in time before the piston comes back up. That causes piston/valve damage. - can burn out bearings in the crankshaft or camshaft(s) from overspeed that the oiling system can't keep up with - can overpressurize the fluids in your engine (oil and coolant) as the pumps run too fast, leading to seal failure - can cause damage to the pistons' top edges as the conrods stretch under the acceleration, running the pistons higher in the cylinder than they usually do - can overstress internal chains and belts (e.g. the timing chain) leading to breakage but all of that is unlikely to happen with just one brief event. I did a similar thing in my car when I was learning to drive (went from 5th to 2nd instead of 5th to 4th) and only bad thing to happen was the water pump spun so fast that the overpressure blew out a freeze plug and dumped all of the coolant. If you don't see any leaking fluids, you're probably fine. Change the oil and look for metal particles if you're really concerned about it. e: oh yeah i forgot. also in old bikes with lovely regulators (and modern mopeds) over-revving the engine can make your headlight bulb explode 
Sagebrush fucked around with this message at 20:51 on Aug 22, 2016 |
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Aug 22, 2016 20:36
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Seems like you've had a bunch of 'moments' lately, you should probably chill the gently caress out.
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Aug 22, 2016 20:45
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BlackMK4 posted:Seems like you've had a bunch of 'moments' lately, you should probably chill the gently caress out. March and August are kinda far apart.
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Aug 22, 2016 20:54
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Weren't you the one talking about spinning up the rear across lines and stuff like last week?
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Aug 22, 2016 21:09
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I mentioned having felt a slight difference once i got loose enough to feel things, and that parking decks are slick. I'm not spinning the rear on jack squat riding a 300 though.
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Aug 22, 2016 21:12
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Sagebrush posted:I did a similar thing in my car when I was learning to drive (went from 5th to 2nd instead of 5th to 4th) and only bad thing to happen was the water pump spun so fast that the overpressure blew out a freeze plug and dumped all of the coolant.
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Aug 22, 2016 22:57
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H gates vs sequential
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Aug 22, 2016 23:03
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Sagebrush posted:
Awesome 
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Aug 22, 2016 23:08
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Rev. Dr. Moses P. Lester posted:That's a new one to me. Is this a thing? Are you sure you weren't just driving a lovely car? BMW cooling system? I dunno exactly what happened, cause I was like 19 and didn't know anything about engines. It was a ten-year-old Ford Escort wagon with the SPI 2.0L engine. I was driving on the freeway at about 65mph, started to decelerate for an offramp, and shifted 5->2 at 55mph or so. It went past the redline and suddenly there was a big white cloud behind the car. Stopped, saw coolant dripping out the bottom (I knew enough to at least recognize it), drove directly to the shop at 20 miles an hour stopping every time the temperature gauge peaked. The next day the mechanics said "yeah, it was just a freeze plug blowing out, there's no damage." My years-later analysis is that a surge in the water pressure blew it out, because I don't know how else that could happen just from overrevving the engine. Beats me. The car ran fine for another three or four years before we sold it.
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Aug 23, 2016 00:06
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BlackMK4 posted:Weren't you the one talking about spinning up the rear across lines and stuff like last week? Double reply: I was either cutting throttle or engine braking through turns and made the rear light. If I kept on the throttle or slowly rolled it like I know goddamn well I should, it's fine. 
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Aug 23, 2016 02:21
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Finally took pics, think it's basically the rear brake wearing the gently caress out, as there was way more play than usual when I was doing some braking tests. 
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Aug 23, 2016 15:14
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Yeah, from that angle anyway the pads look very low.
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Aug 23, 2016 16:47
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Had my first "oh poo poo/gently caress you" in the mountains. Ezpz 30-40mph corner. Going the posted limit. Dudes in a Subaru fly around and the driver is flung into the door and latched on to the wheel with both hands awkwardly. They're on the centerline and going wide. I straighten out with opposite countersteer instead of just evening out the bars. Throttle was constant. Feel a brief wobble/weave and immediately start cursing. Anger came a split second after I realized I wasn't going to die. Wheeee mountain roads and blind corners.
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Sep 12, 2016 23:16
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Probably unnecessary but solution to that is to gentle roll off the throttle, stand the bike up if you have room and if needed start getting on brakes. Yes, you can get on brakes while leaned if you're careful. Basically just try to get out of his way so you can both make the corner.
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Sep 13, 2016 04:09
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Wow, today's weather was horribly awful. It's been lovely sunny and hot, then this evening it goes dark and grey, then the heavens loving open with lightning cracking all over the place. Normally this isn't a big deal but there was so much drat rain anything resembling a puddle became a tidal wave, plus the humidity made short work of fogging up my glasses (short sighted) on a day where I was wearing a black visor, and to top it off my left mirror came loose in the morning so it was unusable. Truthfully it was really loving dangerous of me to be out on the road, but I didn't have a choice as I was already out and had to get home in time as our childminder was dropping off my son.
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Sep 13, 2016 20:11
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