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King Doom posted:So rather than starting to give GW money again after so long I've decided to look into starting Warmachine. How easy is it to pick up though, and how long do games tend to last? Would anyone recommend picking up the two player battle set, or can I just get away with downloading the free pdf and buying the starter kit I like? It's the standard easy to pick up but pretty hard to master. Games are in the order of 1.5-2 hours at 75pts, which is the standard game size. It's much lower at 0-15 points, which is where you'll be playing for awhile starting up. If one of the factions in the 2 player box interests you, I'd say go with it over the battleboxes, since you get an extra unit. You aldo don't need a PDF, since you get a legit rulebook even in the single player boxes. quote:How well balanced are the factions? are there any that are wildly over/underpowered? How do the models stack up against games workshops latest stuff? Mostly pretty good. There's some whinging about Skorne, Legion, and Cryx not being good, but at least the latter two seem mostly due to no longer being perceived as super good anymore. Also the legion starter is a little poorly designed, but you can still win with it. I'd say look at the starters and pick what you like the look of. quote:Oh, and how do you determine how many units you can use per battle? points based? Points based, though there are some tricks of hand to force you into using a decent number of jacks or beasts.
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Aug 21, 2016 23:36
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The new starter boxes all come with a pocket rulebook too. The two-player sets are a pretty sweet place to start if you have someone to split it with - otherwise the starter boxes are great. They also come with a step by step training book that runs through all the game mechanics via a series of scenarios and playable on the included battlemap. Each starter box is a directly playable force that's intended to be balanced against the other starter boxes. The factions are generally all pretty viable - the difference between the best and worst factions is much much narrower than 40k for example. People are still feeling out and experimenting with the new edition though. PP has only really just started moving to polystyrene plastic like GW's stuff - only a few kits are made out of that, the rest is metal or resin-plastic that requires superglue. The game is points-based - a starter box is 0 pts, a standard tournament game is 75 pts. You get a certain number of bonus points based on your leader character that you can only spend on stompy robots or monsters - the starter boxes are built so they use up exactly those bonus points to produce a 0 pt total game. For example, here's the Circle Orboros starter army: Tanith the Feral Song [+31] - Pureblood Warpwolf [17] - Gorax Rager [7] - Wild Argus [7]
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Aug 21, 2016 23:38
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gannyGrabber posted:This is important: Pick the faction you think looks the coolest. Don't listen to people telling you about what is better than what. but then some people end up with trolls 
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Aug 21, 2016 23:39
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I was thinking I'd probably run Khador since they seem like the tankiest guys and I'm a big fan of big slow tough as hell units. How easy are the mercenary units to mix in? Can I just snag some dudes from the merc faction because they look cool/interesting or are there rules and regs about who I can/can't field and when and where and suchlike? VVV I used to play Greenskins in Warhammer fantasy, so I know exactly what you mean. Whenever we rolled up a defensive battle if I was on the attack chances were I was going to randomly kill more of my own guys than the other team would. King Doom fucked around with this message at 23:44 on Aug 21, 2016 |
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Aug 21, 2016 23:40
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Agree that faction aesthetics and play style matter more than 'power'. I'd rather lose with an army I love than win with some Cygnar winning template. But I'm weird. Game's learning curve is very, very steep. Other than playing newbies or vets who are throwing the game to teach it to you expect to lose a lot at the start. What I advise is for new players to set mini goals. Try to win the game, but also say to yourself "If I don't win, ok, but I'm not going to let him assassinate me." Or "I'm going to make sure that named Jack loses", etc.
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Aug 21, 2016 23:41
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King Doom posted:I was thinking I'd probably run Khador since they seem like the tankiest guys and I'm a big fan of big slow tough as hell units. Each merc unit lists what factions it can work for. You can use something like http://conflictchamber.com/ to see the list of what'll work for your faction. Some mercs won't work with other mercs for religious or political reason too - Constance Blaze the holy paladin isn't a huge fan of necromancers like Alexia hanging out with her.
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Aug 21, 2016 23:44
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King Doom posted:I was thinking I'd probably run Khador since they seem like the tankiest guys and I'm a big fan of big slow tough as hell units. I play Khador! They are rad as hell. There's a big advantage in Khador in that everything in the faction is pretty good on its' own, so you don't have to worry terribly about buying the 'wrong' things. As for slow, tanky stuff, look at picking up your battlebox and building a list around Kozlov (who comes in said box). He runs the Man-O-War dudes very, very well. Also buy this guy http://privateerpress.com/warmachine/gallery/khador/solos/man-o-war-drakhun. He is metal as gently caress.
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Aug 21, 2016 23:51
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fnordcircle posted:Game's learning curve is very, very steep. Other than playing newbies or vets who are throwing the game to teach it to you expect to lose a lot at the start. What I advise is for new players to set mini goals. Try to win the game, but also say to yourself "If I don't win, ok, but I'm not going to let him assassinate me." Or "I'm going to make sure that named Jack loses", etc. Also, talk with your opponent after a match. Most vets will be happy to sit there after a game and give you some very good advice on how you can play better. My meta can be ultra competitive at times due to having some high level players but it really helps you to learn by playing against them a lot.
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Aug 22, 2016 00:15
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gannyGrabber posted:I play Khador! They are rad as hell. There's a big advantage in Khador in that everything in the faction is pretty good on its' own, so you don't have to worry terribly about buying the 'wrong' things. MoW Drakhun is a friggin beast. My local meta is terrified of him.
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Aug 22, 2016 01:06
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Friendly Fire posted:Also, talk with your opponent after a match. Most vets will be happy to sit there after a game and give you some very good advice on how you can play better. My meta can be ultra competitive at times due to having some high level players but it really helps you to learn by playing against them a lot. Also, if you're new and having a non-tournament game, ask your opponent beforehand what wacky hijinks you need to watch out for in his list. A lot of lists have a combo or synergy that is not immediately obvious to a newbie, and failing to be aware of it will usually lead to a very short and very one sided game that isn't fun for anyone, and I'm sure your opponent would rather give you fair warning while you'e still learning. It's no fun playing a new player, have him be unaware of the "gotchas" in your list, and end the game in fifteen minutes. Unless you're a total rear end in a top hat.
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Aug 22, 2016 02:05
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gannyGrabber posted:This is important: Pick the faction you think looks the coolest. Don't listen to people telling you about what is better than what. This matters more than anything. Even the whole don't pick minions as your first faction doesnt apply any more imo.
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Aug 22, 2016 02:36
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Yesterday, I took third at a local steamroller tourney between two local gaming clubs. It was a good day. The steamroller had 12 people between two local gaming clubs. The only three factions not being represented were Convergence, Minions, and Trolls (one of my buddies was playing Ret and admitted that he would have brought Convergence just to have the variety). We had 3x Retribution Players, 2x Circle Players, 2x Cryx Players, 2x Cygnar Players, 1x Khador Player, 1x Legion Player, and 1x Rhulic Merc Player. Major Beth Maddox - WJ: +30 - Sylys Wyshnalyrr, The Seeker - PC: 4 - Stormclad - PC: 18 (Battlegroup Points Used: 18) - Stormclad - PC: 18 (Battlegroup Points Used: 12) Journeyman Warcaster - PC: 4 - Firefly - PC: 8 Stormblade Captain - PC: 5 Major Katherine Laddermore - PC: 8 Storm Lances - Leader & 4 Grunts: 20 Storm Lances - Leader & 4 Grunts: 20 Steamroller Objective - Effigy of Valor My strategy of the list was pretty much "Make Storm Lances ARM 20, and then assault for days!" Laddermore ended up being MVP on the list because she could turn those Lances into monsters on the range attack. I never got to live the dream of Feat + Lances + Laddermore + Firefly, but another day. I really liked how this list could just shoot half way up the board turn one and really tilt my opponent on how aggressive I could play. It also helps that having 10 ARM 20 units with DEF 13 are stupidly hard to kill.
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Aug 22, 2016 02:55
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Floppychop posted:MoW Drakhun is a friggin beast. My local meta is terrified of him. I ordered my second one today  E: Gonna make this my new Malakov2 list... Khador Army - 75 / 75 points (Malakov 2) Kommander Andrei Malakov [+28] - Behemoth [24] - Juggernaut [12] - Juggernaut [12] Battle Mechaniks (min) [3] Kossite Woodsmen (min) [7] Winter Guard Rifle Corps (max) [13] Man-O-War Drakhun [9] Man-O-War Drakhun [9] Manhunter [4] Yuri the Axe [6] Kovnik Jozef Grigorovich [4] The Duchess Smackarse fucked around with this message at 04:53 on Aug 22, 2016 |
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Aug 22, 2016 04:50
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gannyGrabber posted:This is important: Pick the faction you think looks the coolest. Don't listen to people telling you about what is better than what. The only thing I really tell people is that it's probably best to avoid starting with Mercenaries or Minions right away because they're a little more restrictive and weird to wrap your head around from a brand new players perspective, especially because of how easy it is to slide into them after you learn the basics. But it's really not a big deal anymore, especially if you've already been used to playing other games.
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Aug 22, 2016 05:04
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S.J. posted:The only thing I really tell people is that it's probably best to avoid starting with Mercenaries or Minions right away because they're a little more restrictive and weird to wrap your head around from a brand new players perspective, especially because of how easy it is to slide into them after you learn the basics. But it's really not a big deal anymore, especially if you've already been used to playing other games. I would say to avoid them at start because they lack battleboxes, and are missing that sweet, sweet rulebook.
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Aug 22, 2016 05:17
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gannyGrabber posted:I would say to avoid them at start because they lack battleboxes, and are missing that sweet, sweet rulebook. well yeah I mean aside from the obvious but you are correct yes
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Aug 22, 2016 05:23
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I'd say brand new players who really want to play Mercs should pick up the Cygnar box.
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Aug 22, 2016 07:16
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Is everybody just forgetting that Convergence of Cyriss ostensibly still exists in some capacity? Because they're the worst faction to start with, considering nobody even vaguely knows what the general plan for new releases for them is.Serotonin posted:Here's the list I was using. I'm considering dropping the 2 Manticores and 2 MHaS to swap in Phoenix and Banshee. Feel like I need a arc node to move Refuge about mainly between Disco and Eiryss. Downside of this is 2 Manticores provide a lot of covering fire for dealing with higher Def Low arm infantry. This is paired with a Helyanna Sentinel Heavy Jack brick. I've thought about using Elara1 and giving her Discordia or a Banshee to double down on Refuge, but a 20 point module like that is hard to fit in. Wizard Styles fucked around with this message at 08:05 on Aug 22, 2016 |
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Aug 22, 2016 08:01
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GoodBee posted:I'd say brand new players who really want to play Mercs should pick up the Cygnar box. Not true anymore. I don't play any of my merc units with Cygnar.
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Aug 22, 2016 11:33
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Wizard Styles posted:Is everybody just forgetting that Convergence of Cyriss ostensibly still exists in some capacity? Because they're the worst faction to start with, considering nobody even vaguely knows what the general plan for new releases for them is. Well we know there will be new releases for them, which is better than just hoping that there will be.
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Aug 22, 2016 12:23
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"We have significant plans for Convergence" I believe is the full extent of the statement.
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Aug 22, 2016 15:49
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GoodBee posted:I'd say brand new players who really want to play Mercs should pick up the Cygnar box. I disagree with this statement, even with my pro Cygnar bias. If you think mercs look cool and good, you should definitely play mercs. Mercs in Mk.3 are at the point where you don't need to buy into another faction to make them good. Hell, mercs got their own gun mages now, so what more do you want?
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Aug 22, 2016 16:52
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Hell I think the new faction to pair with mercs is probably Cryx. 
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Aug 22, 2016 17:24
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I don't mean play MKII Merc-nar, just if you want to play Mercs but also want to buy a starter box, get the Cygnar one. The option to not buy a starter box at all is still there. I think Mercs and Minions are fine as standalone factions. I guess I'm thinking about a hypothetical guy who doesn't know if he wants to play WMH at all but likes the look/idea of Mercs. One of the Merc starter equivalents is Magnus1, Rover, Mangler, which works out to ~$75 with no rulebook or other goodies. TheInvisiblePooka posted:Hell, mercs got their own gun mages now, so what more do you want? I want all the Gun Mages.
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Aug 22, 2016 17:33
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That merc tier list is rude as hell and i lost to it on saturday
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Aug 22, 2016 17:55
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The only thing I'd warn new players about is how expensive Mercs are due to the battlegroup restrictions. Same about Minions, but to a lesser degree of course.GoodBee posted:I don't mean play MKII Merc-nar, just if you want to play Mercs but also want to buy a starter box, get the Cygnar one. The option to not buy a starter box at all is still there. I think Mercs and Minions are fine as standalone factions. The Circle box is a good option for someone interested in Minions, since that gives you a Gorax for Arkadius as well. And Circle in general and Tanith in particular are pretty Minion-friendly.
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Aug 22, 2016 18:45
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I was also thinking you could probably convert the Lancer to a Talon and the Ironclad to a Nomad but that really shouldn't factor in if we're talking about someone who doesn't know if they want to play WMH.
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Aug 22, 2016 19:04
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Floppychop posted:MoW Drakhun is a friggin beast. My local meta is terrified of him. What's his advantage over Fenris? Is the extra power on the attack really worth losing the second weapon and the movement? It seems like Fenris is always the first guy on a horse, then Drakhun is the nearly as good but slightly worse second one.
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Aug 22, 2016 19:30
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tallkidwithglasses posted:What's his advantage over Fenris? Is the extra power on the attack really worth losing the second weapon and the movement? It seems like Fenris is always the first guy on a horse, then Drakhun is the nearly as good but slightly worse second one. I like him because of the arm 20, it's pretty great. They have to devote their anti-warjack attacks at him. He's super tanky, and if he's prevented from charging for some reason he's rat 6 with a pow 14 gun which can be solid. He only loses 1 inch over Fenris. Also, countercharge is loving amazing for him, and he's steady.
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Aug 22, 2016 19:44
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tallkidwithglasses posted:What's his advantage over Fenris? Is the extra power on the attack really worth losing the second weapon and the movement? It seems like Fenris is always the first guy on a horse, then Drakhun is the nearly as good but slightly worse second one. I'm guessing the big advantages are counter charge and he can be repaired.
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Aug 22, 2016 20:16
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tallkidwithglasses posted:What's his advantage over Fenris? Is the extra power on the attack really worth losing the second weapon and the movement? It seems like Fenris is always the first guy on a horse, then Drakhun is the nearly as good but slightly worse second one. Drakhun also has the big benefit of not being super squishy when dismounted. Loss of the extra attack is not as noticeable because he tends to one shot most things, and those that he doesn't one shot will be hurting awfully bad. I'm pure cancer and run two of them in an eVlad list to boost them using feat to make the motherland proud because Spd 10 Str 17 weaponmaster with mat 11 is terrifying to anything. Overall, I prefer Drakhun purely because he is a major threat and can be an amazing distraction to your opponent, many because he can and will threat almost anything on the board. Also, countercharge is SO good on him. Fenris is also good, but I find his niche to be more infantry mulching and as I play eVlad a majority of the time he is not a feat target. With MK3 and the loss of abomination, I feel like Fenris was hurt alot. Even though Abomination may not have gone off alot, it was a handy check against alot of units. Also, tough is out once you use it once, and what hits Fenris dismounted will likely kill him. That being said, he can and will hurt infantry units like mad. So if your meta has a lower model (lots of jacks/beasts and heavy infantry) count I'd suggest Drakhun If your meta has higher model count (lot of single wound infantry) I'd suggest Fenris. OR you could just be evil and run two drakhun and Fenris together and watch as the 'slow' faction suddenly bursts into full charges turn 2
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Aug 22, 2016 20:23
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comrade corcus posted:OR you could just be evil and run two drakhun and Fenris together and watch as the 'slow' faction suddenly bursts into full charges turn 2  As I doodle around with lists I think the ones I'm most eager to try out involve alpha strikes with all the maneuverable weapon master solos alongside casters/bigass jacks that can open things up with them- I'm thinking Karchev knocking things around and Malakov farting clouds on their line to sneak something terrifying through.
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Aug 22, 2016 20:38
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comrade corcus posted:OR you could just be evil and run two drakhun and Fenris together and watch as the 'slow' faction suddenly bursts into full charges turn 2 Then add a unit of Uhlans with Markov. Not that they're amazing, just that people won't expect fast Khador. Floppychop fucked around with this message at 00:05 on Aug 23, 2016 |
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Aug 22, 2016 21:01
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GoodBee posted:I want all the Gun Mages. Cryx won't play nice with Cygnar, so I hot some bad news for you...
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Aug 22, 2016 21:04
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Yeah i dropped to min bomb boys, lost the dog, and added a second drakhun to vlad2. I'm a bastard. Drakhun is better than fenris due to the armor, everything else is just icing. Fenris has a niche with vlad3, since he can launch forward and side step/berserk through a poo poo load of dudes, but I think that's really it. Also the Drakhun is a disgustingly unfair sucker target for either Malakov. I also think visually the Drakhun is very impressive, and much more Khador-y. Floppychop posted:Then add a unit of Uhlans with Markov. Uhlans are OK, but you get a lot more 'fast model hits hard' punch out of IFP and eliminators, in my experience!
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Aug 22, 2016 21:12
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Drakhun over fenris any day, especially in my meta where theres more beefy arm on the table than mans. Thing to keep in mind with the malakov stuff is veil doesn't keep you from getting free strikes (unless it's feat turn and you're pushing a jack through, or Kayazy), nor does it give you LOS through whatever's been veiled. Which is why when I finally put him on the table I want to do it with two field guns and maybe a grolar - shoot and kd, now charge through at whatever is behind.
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Aug 22, 2016 21:13
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gannyGrabber posted:
I've seen uhlans in a lot of weird lists lately. Like irusk2 even. Which makes a kind of sense I guess - battle lust on impact attacks seems real. Calvary charging through a forest too wearing a lampshade fucked around with this message at 21:26 on Aug 22, 2016 |
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Aug 22, 2016 21:14
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I found another sunburst crew at local retail. Now the question becomes, use it for my sevvy 1 list or go and make that sweet sweet eBay money?
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Aug 23, 2016 02:31
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AnElegantPeacock posted:I found another sunburst crew at local retail. Now the question becomes, use it for my sevvy 1 list or go and make that sweet sweet eBay money? What's more important, a couple bucks or hella W's? albany academy posted:I've seen uhlans in a lot of weird lists lately. Like irusk2 even. Which makes a kind of sense I guess - battle lust on impact attacks seems real. Calvary charging through a forest too Uhlan's and Storm Lances give a wide variety lists some hard hitting stuff that threats hella far without having to worry as much as before about clearing 30 infantry models out of the way. They're also very resistant to shooting. S.J. fucked around with this message at 03:16 on Aug 23, 2016 |
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Aug 23, 2016 03:09
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Going to be playing this list later. I bought a second drakhun specifically for something like this, can't wait to try it. Jack marshalled berserker is pretty solid I've found if it has the right buff, I've been running Irusk1 in the journeyman league and put superiority on it with crush and it annihilates while being super disposable. Assail giving free charges and extra movement should be nice as well. http://conflictchamber.com/#b31b77eYeQ7Qgd7Y7W8t8q7l8p8p Khador Army - 75 / 75 points !!! Your army contains a pre-release entry. (Vladimir 2) Vladimir Tzepesci, The Dark Champion [+27] - Rager [11] - Ruin [17] Man-O-War Shocktroopers (max) [16] - Man-o-War Shocktrooper Officer [4] Winter Guard Rifle Corps (max) [13] - Winter Guard Rocketeer (3) [6] Kovnik Jozef Grigorovich [4] Man-O-War Kovnik [5] - Berserker [8] Man-O-War Drakhun [9] Man-O-War Drakhun [9] Because of HoF, I might not need joe. In which case I might either replace him with a manhunter, or turn the rager into a marauder so I can take eliminators. But then, bears strength does make winter guard into unexpected feat targets.
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Aug 23, 2016 03:39
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